Buyer beware: Surface Pro 3 throttling: i7/i5 = i3 in speed with sustained load.

[David P2]

It was a stupid idea to put an core i processor into such an small form factor device. This includes the i3 as well. It is east math to show, that the TDP of the Haswell processors at nominal clock frequency are far above the possible thermal dissipation possible with this form factor.
It certainly gets even worse, when you give the GPU something to do.

And why ARM processors are more popular in small portable devices.

 

[Ruined]

Guys, there are new findings. Cameron found that with a simple box fan blowing on his Surface Pro 3, he can get full performance.

And for those of you saying that an artificial benchmark like Prime 95 is not a valid test, here are my results with Diablo 3, sitting idle, dropping from 47 to 25 frames per second in a matter of six and a half minutes. The frame rate drops even more severely if you are actually playing the game with lots of targets up.

youtu.be / taGIWm-9WPU (still won't let me post links yet)

Would you pay almost $1600 for a device that plays a low-spec game no better than a device costing half it's price? No one is saying the Surface Pro 3 is a failure, just that the i7 edition is a waste of money. The i5 gets you real performance you can feel day-to-day with more storage. Because of the throttling, the i7 won't give you more beyond that.

Exactly, the i5/i7 even throttle playing Minecraft, nevermind professional applications like DAW software.

I can see the options under $1000 being a good buy for consumer use, the higher end models I think are more marketing than they are performance. And the marketing is working, I see a lot of people buying $1299+ options despite the fact that once you put that power to heavy use you get i3 performance. I would rather buy a 799 surface pro 3 now (or wait entirely), then spend big bucks when the real deal comes out (surface w/ broadwell).

Thread is just here to inform those trying to decide whether its worth it spending big bucks for the high end configurations - in my and several others opinion, no. What is the point of paying for a high end CPU if it performs like the low end CPU once its actually put to real work (as opposed to web surfing and office, which the cheaper i3 can handle fine)?

If Microsoft wants the Surface Pro 3 to be taken seriously by creative professionals which they appear to be aiming at, they either need to release firmware that greatly reduces the throttling or release a Broadwell refresh ASAP. Pro software where timing is critical does not respond well to up-down-up-down CPU clocking Ping-Pong. Again, note that Surface Pro 2 does not suffer from these issues.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Exactly, the i5/i7 even throttle playing Minecraft, nevermind professional applications like DAW software.

I can see the options under $1000 being a good buy for consumer use, the higher end models I think are more marketing than they are performance. And the marketing is working, I see a lot of people buying $1299+ options despite the fact that once you put that power to heavy use you get i3 performance. I would rather buy a 799 surface pro 3 now (or wait entirely), then spend big bucks when the real deal comes out (surface w/ broadwell).

Thread is just here to inform those trying to decide whether its worth it spending big bucks for the high end configurations - in my and several others opinion, no. What is the point of paying for a high end CPU if it performs like the low end CPU once its actually put to real work (as opposed to web surfing and office, which the cheaper i3 can handle fine)?

If Microsoft wants the Surface Pro 3 to be taken seriously by creative professionals which they appear to be aiming at, they either need to release firmware that greatly reduces the throttling or release a Broadwell refresh ASAP. Pro software where timing is critical does not respond well to up-down-up-down CPU clocking Ping-Pong. Again, note that Surface Pro 2 does not suffer from these issues.

I don't play Minecraft, but I have read in various places that Minecraft can require significant system resources to run well. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that it can tax a system more than a general workflow for creative professionals.

I think that part of the consumer expectation disconnect can be attributed to over-aggressive marketing claims (implied or explicit) for the SP3. For professionals, the i5/i7 SP3 devices offer unprecedented portability that can be the difference between doing some preliminary work in the field and waiting to return to the office. For that purpose, I think that the SP3 hits the mark.

 

[Mr. Brown]

I'm calling bull on stating that the i7 drops to performance levels of the i3.

I happened to have an SP3 i3, i5, and i7 that I decided to test with. I ran some very basic tests from the following site.

HTML5 Fish Bowl

My first disclaimer is this. I made a custom resolution for all of the SP3s to be at 1440x960 59Hz because I don't like the scaling that happens in desktop mode when hooking up my larger monitors. The lower resolution makes a significant difference in the amount of fish that will be on the screen while maintaining 60Fps.

Basically I just told it to use the auto amount of fish. So the systems would put as many fish on the screen that it possibly could and still maintain 60Fps. I ran the test using Metro IE with nothing else running. Here are the results.

i7 High - 650 Fish
i7 Low - 450 Fish after running for 30 min.

i5 High - 550 Fish
i5 Low - 350 Fish after running for 30 min.

i3 High - 390 Fish
i3 Low - 220 Fish after running for about 30 min.

So I know from personal experience that even when the i7 throttles down and the cpu is cranking, it is still performing better than the i3 when it is cool. I also know that the i7 is still performing better than the i5. So that is what helped me decide to keep the i7 and return the i5. I'm keeping the i3 just for fun since I don't like to unplug my i7 all the time. I personally would probably be ok with the i3 if it came with more storage and more ram.

 

[Ruined]

I don't play Minecraft, but I have read in various places that Minecraft can require significant system resources to run well. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that it can tax a system more than a general workflow for creative professionals.

I think that part of the consumer expectation disconnect can be attributed to over-aggressive marketing claims (implied or explicit) for the SP3. For professionals, the i5/i7 SP3 devices offer unprecedented portability that can be the difference between doing some preliminary work in the field and waiting to return to the office. For that purpose, I think that the SP3 hits the mark.

Creative professionals often use software such as Sonar or Premiere which required sustained high CPU loads. If you are using a number of virtual instruments and effects on Sonar, then your CPU just decides to cut power in half, lets just say your song is not going to sound very good. With Premiere or other video encoding applications, you may get stuttering or other video anomalies as the processor struggles to keep up.

Once again, if you are just using SP3 for web or Office, then yes you will not have throttling problems. But if you are just using it for web or office, why in the world do you need a high end CPU? Web and office run great on Intel Atom Bay Trail, nevermind Core series (core i3 is fine for this application). And that is the issue, what value you are getting for those high end CPUs when their performance is cut just when you really need it?

 

[briandwilliams68]

That benchmark is a simple sprite animation. It doesn't push the processor nor the GPU in any fashion. Try playing a game. Try doing something that actually requires the extra performance of the i7 which you paid $250 more for.

 

[anon(4054009)]

I mean, there's a reason gaming rigs have over the top cooling. Lets keep this in perspective.

Yeah that's it Surface Pro 4 with Liquid cooling for the ultimate gaming experience. Made for the 2% who make poor buying decisions.

 

[rkarolak]

You might want to dig deeper than a reddit posting. Cameron from cbutters actually followed up that posting with an explanation that his cooler office at work led to improved results. Once he brought his i7 SP3 back home, and tested it in the same conditions as his old i5, it exhibited the same problem. Since this is my first posting, I cannot post a link, but Google "Re: Surface Pro 3 - The problems thread tabletpcreview" and jump to page 67.

This is being marketed as a laptop replacement, worthy of professional and gamer use. The performance offered is only good for moments at a time, and to me, that's not worth hundreds of dollars more. In fact, you can practically buy two i3 models for the price of the i7. Hopefully Microsoft will release a firmware fix soon.

I think it the Pro 3 works great for most things, including most professional work and the casual gaming.

I, however, don't think that anyone should get the Pro with their top priority for using the device to be heaving gaming and video editing, very processor-intensive compiling, or anything else that requires constant processor demanding. There are laptops much better suited to that with discrete graphic cards and plenty of ample cooling. Throttling really isn't that much of a surprise to much, much like other ultra-thin tablets and ultrabooks. There is a reason why gaming laptops and desktops are big with lots of fans.

 

[rkarolak]

What I meant to type was a low voltage I7 in a tablet spec. Also where can I buy an I7 SP2? Also confused about the I3 being ok, what happens when one runs the same programs on the I3 that caused the throttling on the I7?

Cause gaming is a Macbook Air strong point, along with the screen quality. I guess the SP3 is running as designed with the thermal management so it is in spec, just not what you want/need. Two very different things. Your last sentence makes no sense.

Gaming is strong point for the Macbook Air? I really don't know why you think so. It has an integrated graphics card as well. The Air only recently has gotten at all passable for gaming. My few-year-old Air struggles to play any modern 3D game.

The Air does kick on loud fans when it gets hot. It also scales the processor back if needed. I'm not sure that it's quite as noticeable as the SP3, but it happens.

If you want to play games on the go and the SP3 isn't good enough for you then you should perhaps just consider getting a cheaper tablet then spend the difference on a laptop with a discrete card. Other than the ultrabooks, normal "fatter" laptops with decent processors and GPUs are fairly affordable (relatively).

 

[Cruncher04]

Also confused about the I3 being ok, what happens when one runs the same programs on the I3 that caused the throttling on the I7?

You can be certain, that the i3 is also throttling down. So i would take the claims, that the i7 goes down to i3 performance level with a grain of salt, as the i3 would also start lowering ist clocks. More disturbing of course is, that the core i processors drop down to performance levels of ARM SoCs, which do not throttle so heavily.

 

[briandwilliams68]

Your last sentence makes no sense.

You are right, it doesn't at all! I meant that Microsoft positions the surface as a laptop replacement, both for professional productivity and reasonable gaming.

 

[briandwilliams68]

If you want to play games on the go and the SP3 isn't good enough for you then you should perhaps just consider getting a cheaper tablet then spend the difference on a laptop with a discrete card. Other than the ultrabooks, normal "fatter" laptops with decent processors and GPUs are fairly affordable (relatively).

Again, Microsoft says that you can expect to play games like League of Legends and Elder Scrolls Online. These are not GPU killers by any means.

As far as productivity is concerned, here is how Microsoft is branding the SP3:

"Surface Pro 3
The tablet that can replace your laptop.
With a 12” display, Surface Pro 3 has the power of a laptop in a lightweight, versatile form."
​

It says laptop, not ultrabook. Cheap laptops that cost half as much as the i7 SP3 can play games and run professional productivity software without these compromises. I think too many people are making excuses on behalf of Microsoft.

 

[badMojo69]

My guess is there will be a lot of i7 returns before the end of 30 days.

 

[Blacklac]

Well, they didn't lie. It does at least play them. . Realistically, it should be able to handle anything within the Windows Store. Games off Steam, or whatever, should be expected to be hit or miss. If it can't even play stuff in the Windows Store without throttling, that's a fail, IMO.

 

[link68759]

First, as a general rule the i7 is worse for gaming and other single thread activities than an i5. I don't know enough about the surface pro 3 to say if this generality applies here and I cannot do the research myself at the moment.

Second, the first post seems to suggest this is on battery only? Does the throttling happen when it is plugged in? I'm ok with throttling on battery life- I personally don't see the point in even trying to run intense games on a battery.
Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Tapatalk

 

[anon(4054009)]

Gaming is strong point for the Macbook Air? I really don't know why you think so. It has an integrated graphics card as well. The Air only recently has gotten at all passable for gaming. My few-year-old Air struggles to play any modern 3D game.

The Air does kick on loud fans when it gets hot. It also scales the processor back if needed. I'm not sure that it's quite as noticeable as the SP3, but it happens.

If you want to play games on the go and the SP3 isn't good enough for you then you should perhaps just consider getting a cheaper tablet then spend the difference on a laptop with a discrete card. Other than the ultrabooks, normal "fatter" laptops with decent processors and GPUs are fairly affordable (relatively).

You missed the sarcasm about gaming on an Air

 

[iBrummie]

Okay, I'm not buying the SP3 i7 for gaming, I'm not even planning to do a lot of Gfx hungry work, maybe a little Adobe suite work... But for 1.5k with F*&king keyboard I would expect more than a 1Ghz device when a couple of windows are running. Just CANCELLED the pre-order from May after much reading reviews. I'm holding out till post Sept announcements from a fruit based biz...

Hasswell vs Broardwell, i5 vs i7.... quad vs dual... all boils down to ONE key point ?1,500.00 is TOO much if it ain't going to deliver!!

 

[Ruined]

My guess is there will be a lot of i7 returns before the end of 30 days.

...and i5 256gb returns, those ain't cheap.

I think the i3 and i5 128gb are good values though.

That being said I plan to repurchase one in 6-8 months when broadwell refresh is available for surface pro.

 

[anon(5348413)]

I don't care what you do with it, no company should be selling a product that throttles down for any reason. Sorry. If you advertise a device that uses an I7, it better be able to run that I7 at full load, at max speed, forever. Since when did we suddenly accept anything less? Since when has anyone gone out and bought a computer that runs at 3ghz, and expected it to only run 1.9ghz consistently? NEVER! Throttling is there for a reason. As a safety precaution to protect the processor in case of emergency. Like a fan died or your something way out of the ordinary. We also accept throttling in the case of preserving battery life. But that is a conscience decision. If we want to chew through our batteries as fast as we can, then I damn well better be able to. Do not accept half ***'d garbage. They get away with this crap because some fanboys out there will defend them to the death. Hold their asses accountable. I for one was excited for the pro 3. I was ready to buy 2. Not now.

 

[link68759]

I don't care what you do with it, no company should be selling a product that throttles down for any reason. Sorry. If you advertise a device that uses an I7, it better be able to run that I7 at full load, at max speed, forever. Since when did we suddenly accept anything less? Since when has anyone gone out and bought a computer...

Not a computer. Tablet. Understand that your desires are niche, and the vast majority of users would rather their device run cooler, quieter and longer than have chrome render that web page 10ms faster. Also notice the form factor is ridiculous for the specs- if it didn't throttle half of them would be dead in 6 months. How is that going to look? This is not somehow a terrible device because of these design decisions- you are simply not the target audience.

Would it be nice if you could be certain that it would run at full power with adequate cooling provided while plugged in? Certainly. Would it be nice to tweak the throttle rate and what temperature it starts at? I don't see how this wouldn't void the warranty but yeah. Does Microsoft owe you these tools? No.