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10-10-2013 02:52 PM
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  1. chfhyh's Avatar
    There will be so many 2 in 1 on the market this holiday season...

    I would like to be able to do a little gaming with my next computer, so all the Bay Trail ones are out of questions. However, if you can go by with less power, you can pick up one of the Bay Trail convertibles. They are way cheaper and looking very promising.

    So, down to the Haswell ones for me. Here is the list:
    Acer: R7
    Asus: Transformer Book Trio
    Dell: XPS 12
    HP: Spectre X2
    Lenovo: Yoga 2 Pro
    Sony: Vaio Flip 13, Duo 13, Tap 11

    For R7, I really like the form factor and price. However, it is too big.. I hope Acer comes up with a 13 or 12 inch version. It is stupid that they did not do it out of gate the first time.

    Transformer book trio is intriguing, yet the idea of having two CPUs is a little messy and wasteful. Nonetheless, Asus is probably the most innovative OEM in Asia. Some of your Android users might like the trio.

    Dell XPS 12: This one is tough.. Long battery, good speed, larger screen, seamless conversion... it all sounds so good. The only downside is the size and weight. it is a 12 inch screen in a 13 inch body and it weighs more than other 13 inch competitor. I am not sure I can deal with that. Pass...

    Update: mkslive suggest to add XPS 11, it looks interesting. the information about this one is pretty limited though..

    HP Spectre 13: The down side is that it has under powered CPU. And I do not like the idea of having to use a keyboard to stand up the tablet. Pass!

    Yoga 2 pro: The issue for me here is battery life... It has highest resolutions screen, yet it is a little blindly high... 1080p is enough. the screen sucks the life out of the battery. it only last 6 hours playing video vs 1st gen surface pro's 4.5 hours. therefore, i will have to wait for the battery test to make my decision.

    Sony Vaio Tab 11, Flit 13, Duo 13: Duo 13 throttles CPU, so pass. Tab 11 has under powered CPU, pass. Flip 13 is interesting. It is almost 1 lb less than XPS 12 yet has a larger screen. I hope Sony will not throttle the CPU and give it a 50 Whr battery. Then, it will be a strong candidate.

    Update: Vaio Duo 13 does not throttle... the issue is that it only has one angle when opened...still pass

    Here is what's left after the run down:
    Vaio Fit 13: needs throttle free CPU with good battery life
    Yoga 2 pro: needs good battery life
    Acer R7: make a 11/12/13 inch version please

    Update: Yoga 2 Pro is out of the race since it has single channel ram which hinders HD4400. The race now is between Sony Flip 13 and Surface 2 Pro.

    As for surface pro 2, it will be a beast with power cover. 12.5 hr battery, un-throttled i5, 4/8 gig ram, with pen and build in kick stand. It is ultra-portable, ultra adaptable. tablet, laptop, desktop, you name it. bed, car, airplane, desk, couch, wherever. The only downside, however, the screen is a tad small. i will have to go to a store to check the current pro to make that final judgment about the screen size. i just wish the screen is 11.6 inch instead of 10.6 inch. 11.6 inch with 50 whr battery will be an instant buy. that being said, surface pro 2 is a strong candidate. it wins in power, battery life, portability and versatility. this is why it ended up on my shortlist.

    what do you think?

    update: surface pro 2 128GB pre ordered
    Last edited by chfhyh; 10-09-2013 at 10:27 AM.
    rdubmu likes this.
    09-26-2013 05:32 PM
  2. mkslive's Avatar
    Add Dell XPS 11 to that list.

    https://forums.windowscentral.com/e?...token=wVgRv7a9
    chfhyh likes this.
    09-26-2013 05:38 PM
  3. crash1989's Avatar
    Does the surface pro 2 have unthrottled i5 .. I thought all mobile devices like lapops throttle the power unless they are gaming. Cool. If pro 2 indeed is unthrottled I will be amazed at how they control the heat when it reaches 80 degrees.

    It is mostly down to the heat produced and weight for me. I dislike when the device gets hot hence the thermal algos need to be very good and needs to be as light as possible for a powerful machine. I stayed away from Alienware and msi because of that.

    I don't know when these will be available in India but I am leaning on Surface Pro 2, Yoga Pro 2 and MBP. I do a bit of gaming (I seem to do this less and less) but most of the time I need to run Visual Studio, photoshop , eclipse. the worst memory hog that is chrome browser in parallel. My current Dell Studio xps is struggling to keep up :).
    09-26-2013 05:50 PM
  4. chfhyh's Avatar
    Review Microsoft Surface Pro Tablet - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

    According to notebookcheck, 1 gen surface pro does not throttle... the surface boss said they did not throttle anything at the launch, but it is good to be cautious though.

    what do you need MBP for? are you doing XCode. if not, then it will be unnecessary to run VS.Eclipse in a virtual machine... is there other way to do it?

    Does the surface pro 2 have unthrottled i5 .. I thought all mobile devices like lapops throttle the power unless they are gaming. Cool. If pro 2 indeed is unthrottled I will be amazed at how they control the heat when it reaches 80 degrees.

    It is mostly down to the heat produced and weight for me. I dislike when the device gets hot hence the thermal algos need to be very good and needs to be as light as possible for a powerful machine. I stayed away from Alienware and msi because of that.

    I don't know when these will be available in India but I am leaning on Surface Pro 2, Yoga Pro 2 and MBP. I do a bit of gaming (I seem to do this less and less) but most of the time I need to run Visual Studio, photoshop , eclipse. the worst memory hog that is chrome browser in parallel. My current Dell Studio xps is struggling to keep up :).
    crash1989 likes this.
    09-26-2013 05:56 PM
  5. etphoto's Avatar
    U seem to put a lot of stock in screen size. I am more into the hardware including the amount of RAM. I know the surface pros are a at least 4 gigs. I think I read the pro 2 might have the ability to go up to 8. If u r in gaming and photo editing, RAM is where its at. Screen size doesn't mean too much since u have the ability to use external monitor. Can't have external RAM.
    09-26-2013 06:00 PM
  6. DalekSnare's Avatar
    If you wanted to use Adobe stuff with the stylus, the Sony could be a problem since it doesn't use Wacom, the digitizer Adobe supports for things like pressure sensitivity.

    Yoga 2 has no stylus at all, which is the only reason I'm not getting one. If you are getting a tablet, don't waste your money on one that is missing a major input option.
    kittengirl, rdubmu and xandros9 like this.
    09-26-2013 06:00 PM
  7. chfhyh's Avatar
    thanks, see what you mean... getting 8 gig is easy, but you do not always have a screen everywhere you go. imaging coding/gaming on 10.6 inch screen... a little larger helps, don't you think?

    U seem to put a lot of stock in screen size. I am more into the hardware including the amount of RAM. I know the surface pros are a at least 4 gigs. I think I read the pro 2 might have the ability to go up to 8. If u r in gaming and photo editing, RAM is where its at. Screen size doesn't mean too much since u have the ability to use external monitor. Can't have external RAM.
    09-26-2013 06:03 PM
  8. chfhyh's Avatar
    thanks for pointing that out. my wife loves to draw.

    If you wanted to use Adobe stuff with the stylus, the Sony could be a problem since it doesn't use Wacom, the digitizer Adobe supports for things like pressure sensitivity.

    Yoga 2 has no stylus at all, which is the only reason I'm not getting one. If you are getting a tablet, don't waste your money on one that is missing a major input option.
    09-26-2013 06:05 PM
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
    If drawing is the priority, Wacom actually makes a stand-alone Windows 8 tablet with mappable buttons.

    http://cintiqcompanion.wacom.com/CintiqCompanion/en/
    09-26-2013 06:09 PM
  10. crash1989's Avatar
    Review Microsoft Surface Pro Tablet - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

    According to notebookcheck, 1 gen surface pro does not throttle... the surface boss said they did not throttle anything at the launch, but it is good to be cautious though.

    what do you need MBP for? are you doing XCode. if not, then it will be unnecessary to run VS.Eclipse in a virtual machine... is there other way to do it?
    no, MBP is the fallback option , I kind of have plans for iOS or OSX but am sticking with WP and Android for now. Parallels is good enough (I could also load up windows 8 on it), but I think I just like the way Apple makes it laptops and they are pretty powerful:) I need to find really good options in Windows too.
    09-26-2013 06:10 PM
  11. chfhyh's Avatar
    not a priority, but thanks..

    If drawing is the priority, Wacom actually makes a stand-alone Windows 8 tablet with mappable buttons.

    Cintiq Companion | Wacom
    09-26-2013 06:11 PM
  12. etphoto's Avatar
    thanks, see what you mean... getting 8 gig is easy, but you do not always have a screen everywhere you go. imaging coding/gaming on 10.6 inch screen... a little larger helps, don't you think?
    lol. You can't get the RAM if the hardware can't hold it. I havent looked it up but I don't think I have ever seen a tablet with 4 gigs of RAM (except the surface pro) Like I already said, you can get bigger in the screen with the use of an external monitor. To each his own though.
    09-26-2013 06:12 PM
  13. chfhyh's Avatar
    agree on Apple hardware part, and OSX is light.

    i think the windows OEMs are upping their build quality and of course the prices... Apple is like doing the opposite, just a bit

    no, MBP is the fallback option , I kind of have plans for iOS or OSX but am sticking with WP and Android for now. Parallels is good enough, but I think I just like the way Apple makes it laptops and they are pretty powerful:) I need to find really good options in Windows too
    09-26-2013 06:14 PM
  14. chfhyh's Avatar
    i believe almost all devices on my list has >4gb option, and again surface pro is a PC not a tablet..

    to make my point clear, you cannot carry a large screen with you when you are on the go

    lol. You can't get the RAM if the hardware can't hold it. I havent looked it up but I don't think I have ever seen a tablet with 4 gigs of RAM (except the surface pro) Like I already said, you can get bigger in the screen with the use of an external monitor. To each his own though.
    09-26-2013 06:18 PM
  15. etphoto's Avatar
    i believe almost all devices on my list has >4gb option, and again surface pro is a PC not a tablet..

    to make my point clear, you cannot carry a large screen with you when you are on the go
    Very true, that you can not.
    09-26-2013 06:28 PM
  16. chezm's Avatar
    If the screen size is such a deal breaker, I wouldn't consider the pro 2. Yes its smaller, unfortunately its not that 1" bigger you hoped for (just sounds wrong lol)...not sure its what you want on a device.
    xandros9 likes this.
    09-26-2013 07:42 PM
  17. Moiz Mian's Avatar
    Who says the Duo 13 throttles? If you're talking about the 1.3ghz processor, that's actually the GT2 processor with HD5000 graphics which is superior to the i5-4200U.
    09-27-2013 06:33 PM
  18. coip's Avatar
    If you wanted to use Adobe stuff with the stylus, the Sony could be a problem since it doesn't use Wacom, the digitizer Adobe supports for things like pressure sensitivity.

    Yoga 2 has no stylus at all, which is the only reason I'm not getting one. If you are getting a tablet, don't waste your money on one that is missing a major input option.
    I don't get the stylus thing. Can't any Windows 8 PC use a stylus? I was in the Microsoft Store a few weeks ago and one of the workers showed me a stylus that worked really well on every PC in the place (Jot Pro Fine Point Stylus), including Surface RT. And it's only like $30, so I'm confused about this "doesn't have a stylus" critique. What am I missing?

    Also, the Yoga 2 Pro at 13.3" is probably a bit too bulky to use often in tablet mode with a stylus (that seems more suited to the 10.6" Surface Pro 2), but I am interested in the Yoga 2 Pro because of the larger screen (I already have a Surface RT, so I'm covered in that screen size realm).
    09-28-2013 02:27 PM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I'm not too keen on the Trio myself. I like the concept, but not the limitations. I'd rather see them put in a Bay Trail chip for the tablet itself (not sure what's in it), then give the option to boot into Windows 8 from the tablet, rather than making it all-Android, all the time. The Surface Pro's just too costly for my taste as well. $900 as the base isn't bad, but the storage the OS eats away means you HAVE to opt for the 128-GB option, at the very least, and you have to spend another $130 to get the Type Cover--it's not even a hybrid if you don't. I still think my preferred option would be that T100 tablet. I don't need to do mobile computing much, so getting something cheap ($350 WITH the dock and Office) would be my choice.
    09-28-2013 03:59 PM
  20. lafester's Avatar
    Trio uses the clover trail atom in the tab which honestly I didn't think was possible with android. dual-core 1.6GHz Intel Atom Z2760 processor?
    Nobody knows how that tab is going to perform with that chip which makes the whole setup a gamble. I love the transformer design and really would prefer this setup as you described with bay trail in the tab and haswell in the doc for more power.

    Seriously I'm a bit frustrated trying to find a good windows tablet at this point. Surface pro is nice but its hot and a bit heavy. I was looking forward to some bay trail options but so far the options are less then ideal. Asus decided to put out the cheapest one they could make and hp decided that even though everyone loved the envy x2 build they would kill it and go with a glossy cheap plastic pavillion instead. We also have no idea how well bay trail is going to perform as nobody is allowed to show us how it runs. With the improvements being made on emmc memory, quad core, 4 gb ram and improved graphics performance it should be a nice compromise but at this point it will be 2 months before anyone knows for sure.

    Sony tap 11 is nice but the keyboard design is ridiculous and the kickstand is useless except on a completely flat surface.
    Hopefully the t100 is able to be benchmarked soon so we can see how well bay trail performs with minimum specs. Also hoping some more haswell 10-11 inch tabs are introduced asap.
    I was just over at best buy looking at surface and everyone there was checking them out more then any other tablet on display. it is a nice tab i'm just not sold on it yet.
    09-28-2013 07:02 PM
  21. lafester's Avatar
    T100 could be ok but the hp pavillion x2 will at least have a 4gb ram/128gb emmc option and a lot more ports + keyboard battery. Of course it will be a few hundred more and come out a month later.

    I'm not too keen on the Trio myself. I like the concept, but not the limitations. I'd rather see them put in a Bay Trail chip for the tablet itself (not sure what's in it), then give the option to boot into Windows 8 from the tablet, rather than making it all-Android, all the time. The Surface Pro's just too costly for my taste as well. $900 as the base isn't bad, but the storage the OS eats away means you HAVE to opt for the 128-GB option, at the very least, and you have to spend another $130 to get the Type Cover--it's not even a hybrid if you don't. I still think my preferred option would be that T100 tablet. I don't need to do mobile computing much, so getting something cheap ($350 WITH the dock and Office) would be my choice.
    09-28-2013 07:17 PM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    T100 could be ok but the hp pavillion x2 will at least have a 4gb ram/128gb emmc option and a lot more ports + keyboard battery. Of course it will be a few hundred more and come out a month later.
    There are 3 main things that make me say "no" to the Pavilion:

    1. $600 vs. $350
    2. No Office (at least, didn't see that it's included)
    3. HP has the worst support I've ever encountered, and after my first laptop, it was so bad that I decided I'd never buy another product from them again (they basically lied and said my computer had water damage and refused to fix it while it was under warranty).
    09-28-2013 10:33 PM
  23. lafester's Avatar
    Well the price difference is easily made up for with specs.
    No office... you might be right on that one. you can pick up older versions pretty cheap however.
    support? well maybe you haven't dealt with asus yet but they are pretty bad as well.

    really I am disappointed with both but if performance blows me away I might pick one up.
    09-28-2013 11:27 PM
  24. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Well the price difference is easily made up for with specs.
    No office... you might be right on that one. you can pick up older versions pretty cheap however.
    support? well maybe you haven't dealt with asus yet but they are pretty bad as well.

    really I am disappointed with both but if performance blows me away I might pick one up.
    1. That assumes that one NEEDS the improved specs. Also, which specs on the Pavilion are confirmed to beat the T100's? The resolution is the same, I think, and they likely carry the same Bay Trail chip. The Pavilion might have more storage, but does it have microSD support (which I think the T100 does)?
    2. Yeah, but when you're starting at $250 more, adding software costs to equal the T100 makes the deal even worse.
    3. No, I haven't. I have a desktop now, but I can also say that I know of enough people with ASUS products that haven't failed (my motherboard, dad's board, sister's board, sister's Transformer tablet, dad's video cars, brother-in-law's laptop) that I trust them more than I do HP, where I've had person experiences of frustration to go with the stories my friend (who used to work at the computer repair division of Staples) has told me, like refusing to talk to him about replacing a broken part because the customer didn't say something to them first.

    I really can't say I'm disappointed in the T100 myself, simply because of the cost. For $350, you can't really EXPECT more. Office 2013 alone is $100/year, no?
    09-28-2013 11:38 PM
  25. chfhyh's Avatar
    That 1 inch does matter for me. 11.6 inch would match many ultrabook screen size. I think they are that size for a reason... I understand it is not a perfect world...
    If the screen size is such a deal breaker, I wouldn't consider the pro 2. Yes its smaller, unfortunately its not that 1" bigger you hoped for (just sounds wrong lol)...not sure its what you want on a device.
    09-29-2013 12:06 AM
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