10-09-2013 02:56 PM
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  1. ohgood's Avatar
    the Surface RT/2 have similar intended users as iPad, but the Surface Pro is a completely different crowd which is definitely smaller. Sure the Surface RT/2 wants the iPad market, or else MS wouldn't advertise like crazy with comparisons.


    Yes, we know this, but the naming and marketing schemes are currently failing to display this.
    10-01-2013 02:10 PM
  2. chezm's Avatar
    Yes, we know this, but the naming and marketing schemes are currently failing to display this.
    I get what you're saying...fair enough. Im starting to think this may be the reason the of color change for the Surface 2? Just a guess....to distinguish between the S2 vs SP2.

    If i was a consumer and walked into the store i wouldnt know the difference. But the same can be said for the Macbook Air vs the MB Pro..
    10-01-2013 02:47 PM
  3. WP7_Genius's Avatar
    Well, your no's were correct.

    The iPad appears to be something though, as opposed to nothing. Toy is defined as a learning, associating, growing thing by people on Wikipedia. I know you meant it in a derogatory fashion, buy I'm going for positive. Any device can be made a toy, and turned into fun.

    You also described the pro as a full laptop. It is not. It has limits as does every device. It's fine that the iPad is not suited tor rugby, just as the surface is not suited to shark fishing. They both are very capable in their own regards though.

    Will the market recognize it ? Man I hope so. Competitions always benefit consumers. As of now, the iPad doesn't have competition from Microsoft, only android in the tablet sector. Is really like to see a three abreast finish.
    It was more of how you can ccompare the 2 devices. iPad vs RT yes, but not Pro because you can run legacy full apps like the desktop and you can't on iPad. Processor, SSD, etc. Are not options on the iPad and I believe the 64 or 128 iPad cost as much as a pro with the networking inside. iPad is good at what it does, but its not in the same league as SP2
    10-01-2013 06:51 PM
  4. Jas00555's Avatar
    All these news from engadget, cnet, verge are weird .. they seem to see this differently from us. they have facts to support this of course, i hope they sell decently well. they are good devices.
    also, to expand on this....

    I agree, on bigger websites, it just seems to me that no one can figure out what the Surface Pro is. "dur dur dur is it a laptop or tablet? Me can't figure it out dur dur dur" (how I read every one of these reviews on other sites).

    I don't know if its clickbait, or the writers have some agenda to keep their Apple purchases as "the right thing" so they don't admit they're on an inferior product (because why else would they lie??) or if they're just plain stupid.

    During the keynote, I'm pretty sure I heard Panos say "its a full PC with a tablet body" at least 3 times. At Build 2013, Steve Ballmer called it a hybrid. Every other executive has either called it a hybrid or 2-in-1. I just honestly can't understand what these people are seeing that I don't. They'd never call the iPad "basically an overpriced big iPhone that you can't make calls on". Its a tablet. The Pro is a hybrid. How hard is it to understand??

    My 45-year old dad picked it up in one day and trust me, if it wasn't for his email app on his iPhone, he probably wouldn't check his email because of the technology hassle, so why can't "professionals"?

    I don't know, these "journalists" just constantly act like they were browsing Microsoft.com one day and the Surface just showed up and they're scrambling to figure out what it is.
    10-01-2013 11:42 PM
  5. eugie's Avatar
    CNET is apple diehard fans...
    10-02-2013 06:14 AM
  6. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    If Apple can charge $1000 for a MBAir with 720p resolution 11-Inch NON-TOUCH Screen, 4th Gen i5, 128GB SSD and 4GB RAM is the SP2 with 10.6 1080p TOUCH-SCREEN, 4th Gen i5, 128GB SSD, 4GB RAM for $1000 really expensive???
    Yes. Because it isn't $1000 for the SP2. It's $1130 (you need to add a TypeCover2)

    It is sad and comical that the anti-Apple contingent accuses Apple of "boutique pricing"... overcharging for the privilege of buying an Apple product, but when Microsoft sells a device for an equal or greater price for a competing product, suddenly Apple's pricing becomes "reasonable".

    People need to be consistent. Either Apple products are overpriced or they aren't. If they are overpriced, then Microsoft's products of comparable prices for comparable hardware are overpriced too.
    10-02-2013 12:19 PM
  7. chezm's Avatar
    Yes. Because it isn't $1000 for the SP2. It's $1130 (you need to add a TypeCover2)

    It is sad and comical that the anti-Apple contingent accuses Apple of "boutique pricing"... overcharging for the privilege of buying an Apple product, but when Microsoft sells a device for an equal or greater price for a competing product, suddenly Apple's pricing becomes "reasonable".

    People need to be consistent. Either Apple products are overpriced or they aren't. If they are overpriced, then Microsoft's products of comparable prices for comparable hardware are overpriced too.
    Fair enough, but the integration of touch-screen has to account for something which you skipped over in your response. So if we compare $1000 MBA to $1130 for a SP2 with touch-screen capability...theres quite a huge difference there. But now anti-Microsoft consumers will say the touch-screen is unnecessary or irrelevant...

    it works both ways.
    10-02-2013 12:33 PM
  8. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Fair enough, but the integration of touch-screen has to account for something which you skipped over in your response. So if we compare $1000 MBA to $1130 for a SP2 with touch-screen capability...theres quite a huge difference there. But now anti-Microsoft consumers will say the touch-screen is unnecessary or irrelevant...

    it works both ways.
    That's all well and good. I'm all for the value added of a touch-screen. What's that worth? $100? $200? That doesn't invalidate my point. Or are you going to claim that integrated touchscreen is worth $1000?! LOL

    Seriously there is no way one can embrace the notion that "Apple engages in boutique pricing" and embrace the idea that "the Surface Pro 2 is reasonably priced" simultaneously without revealing company bias.
    10-02-2013 12:45 PM
  9. slowboy920's Avatar
    What is the SP2 or MBA worth? It's worth what you're willing to pay. Can we get over the price issue?
    10-02-2013 12:57 PM
  10. Daylife's Avatar
    That's all well and good. I'm all for the value added of a touch-screen. What's that worth? $100? $200? That doesn't invalidate my point. Or are you going to claim that integrated touchscreen is worth $1000?! LOL

    Seriously there is no way one can embrace the notion that "Apple engages in boutique pricing" and embrace the idea that "the Surface Pro 2 is reasonably priced" simultaneously without revealing company bias.
    Lol.....Touchscreen, Wacom digitizer, 1080p....things the MBA can only dream of having.
    10-02-2013 01:18 PM
  11. Adretheon's Avatar
    I love that most of the commentors made 100x better points on why not to get a pro than the actual article. Granted most of those were as well false, but they made much better points about it.
    10-02-2013 03:28 PM
  12. ohgood's Avatar
    Lol.....Touchscreen, Wacom digitizer, 1080p....things the MBA can only dream of having.
    It seems hard ware specs don't matter when a lumia is behind on them, but if the surface is ahead, specs are serious game changers.


    Maybe the CNET bias is contagious.
    10-02-2013 04:45 PM
  13. chezm's Avatar
    That's all well and good. I'm all for the value added of a touch-screen. What's that worth? $100? $200? That doesn't invalidate my point. Or are you going to claim that integrated touchscreen is worth $1000?! LOL

    Seriously there is no way one can embrace the notion that "Apple engages in boutique pricing" and embrace the idea that "the Surface Pro 2 is reasonably priced" simultaneously without revealing company bias.
    I'm not sure what happened here, this got completely off track. All I stated was the MBA and Surface Pro 2 are similarly priced. You keep returning to the keyboard argument, so we add the price to the formula...incorporate a touch screen and see they are both premium products. Touch screen worth $200?...its not just the touch screen but the integration of it with the OS (and legacy apps) as well as Guerilla Glass which im sure adds value as well. My point is both are $1000...give or take $$$. By your statement Apple can charge $1000 for...? Its the same argument to retaliate your point.

    I don't consider the MBA overpriced, never have...i actually think they make excellent products. I have a Nano 5th gen as a music player and love it. But im just not a fan of OSx, or else I'd invest in a MBA. Now a MBP, that's a different story. I have one for work and cant understand why someone would pay the $3k (top end is what I've got)...maybe The cheaper model I can see.

    And for the record....i would still consider both the devices we are talking about as expensive.
    10-02-2013 05:30 PM
  14. Jas00555's Avatar
    It seems hard ware specs don't matter when a lumia is behind on them, but if the surface is ahead, specs are serious game changers.


    Maybe the CNET bias is contagious.
    Its because hardware doesn't matter as much on a phone because you don't use your phone for the kinds of things that you throw at your PC.
    10-02-2013 05:36 PM
  15. Daylife's Avatar
    But hey, Apple charging $199 for 8Gb more of RAM is perfectly fine LMFAO.
    anon(5876801) likes this.
    10-02-2013 06:07 PM
  16. SwimSwim's Avatar
    Yeah, I read the article when it came out, got nothing but hate (about the journalism quality, that is). Honestly, it was awful.

    He starts off saying they're two completely different devices that serve different market needs, then tries comparing them. What? He practically admired he was comparing apples to oranges, yet still tried justifying it!

    CNET is awful, yet I somehow find myself always going back... :/
    10-02-2013 06:24 PM
  17. json jett's Avatar
    I find this CNET review to be accurate. I was all set to buy a Surface RT on Day One, but was not won-over by the design and decided to wait for the Pro. The Surface Pro was even more disappointing because of its wide-screen (as in narrow), landscape orientation and bulkiness. The Surfaces are not good deals, especially with keyboards an additional $100 or $120. I agree with the reviewer that in terms of what I want in a tablet, I would prefer a more powerful RT. The RT is lighter, thinner and has a wider screen than the Pro.
    Look at the Surface and iPad side by side, and consider which design makes the better tablet. The Surface is more a notebook than a tablet. That is not a bad thing, unless all you really need and want is a tablet.
    For me, the upcoming Nokia tablet looms as a possibility; but a tablet should stand up (portrait), and not on its side (landscape). The portrait aspect is the reason people are buying iPads over both Windows and Android tablets.
    10-02-2013 06:57 PM
  18. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I find this CNET review to be accurate. I was all set to buy a Surface RT on Day One, but was not won-over by the design and decided to wait for the Pro. The Surface Pro was even more disappointing because of its wide-screen (as in narrow), landscape orientation and bulkiness. The Surfaces are not good deals, especially with keyboards an additional $100 or $120. I agree with the reviewer that in terms of what I want in a tablet, I would prefer a more powerful RT. The RT is lighter, thinner and has a wider screen than the Pro.
    Look at the Surface and iPad side by side, and consider which design makes the better tablet. The Surface is more a notebook than a tablet. That is not a bad thing, unless all you really need and want is a tablet.
    For me, the upcoming Nokia tablet looms as a possibility; but a tablet should stand up (portrait), and not on its side (landscape). The portrait aspect is the reason people are buying iPads over both Windows and Android tablets.
    Want a more powerful RT? Then buy a Surface 2, it's packed power. And I don't see the issue with landscape, it gives you more to work with, really. Plenty of iPad apps come in landscape, and the Surface is still plenty usable in portrait.
    10-02-2013 08:35 PM
  19. Daylife's Avatar
    I find this CNET review to be accurate. I was all set to buy a Surface RT on Day One, but was not won-over by the design and decided to wait for the Pro. The Surface Pro was even more disappointing because of its wide-screen (as in narrow), landscape orientation and bulkiness. The Surfaces are not good deals, especially with keyboards an additional $100 or $120. I agree with the reviewer that in terms of what I want in a tablet, I would prefer a more powerful RT. The RT is lighter, thinner and has a wider screen than the Pro.
    Look at the Surface and iPad side by side, and consider which design makes the better tablet. The Surface is more a notebook than a tablet. That is not a bad thing, unless all you really need and want is a tablet.
    For me, the upcoming Nokia tablet looms as a possibility; but a tablet should stand up (portrait), and not on its side (landscape). The portrait aspect is the reason people are buying iPads over both Windows and Android tablets.

    You issue is that its "wide-screen and bulky" wow lol....What other ultabook is the size and weight of the Surface 1 or 2? Do you like using 4:3 aspect ratio laptops/ultrabooks?
    10-02-2013 08:47 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    It is sad and comical that the anti-Apple contingent accuses Apple of "boutique pricing"... overcharging for the privilege of buying an Apple product, but when Microsoft sells a device for an equal or greater price for a competing product, suddenly Apple's pricing becomes "reasonable".

    People need to be consistent. Either Apple products are overpriced or they aren't. If they are overpriced, then Microsoft's products of comparable prices for comparable hardware are overpriced too.
    What is the SP2 or MBA worth? It's worth what you're willing to pay. Can we get over the price issue?
    I tend to agree with these views. How can we say something is overpriced if it sells? I have not yet personally met anybody who has an iPad that doesn't like it or thought it was a waste of money. FWIW, I work with someone who is a Microsoft MVP and has many Microsoft certifications. He's also one of the biggest Microsoft fans you'll ever meet. What's interesting is that he questions the value of his Surface RT. Of course we MS fans look at the iPad and say it's overpriced, but as slowboy said an item's value is what you're willing to pay for it. Millions are willing to pay for the iPad at its current prices; therefore, it is not overpriced. The RT didn't sell well until they cut the price, so with the same logic you could say it was overpriced.
    10-02-2013 09:31 PM
  21. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I think Apple is overpriced, and I think the exact same about the Surface hardware and accessories. I still think they're awesome and I'll buy 'em, but the prices make me none to happy. One thing you got to hand to the Surface, they mimic Apple in nearly all regards:

    Fantastic industrial design? Check.
    Hardware and software working in harmony? Check.
    Taking an already incredible product, and making it better in V2.0? Check.
    Non user-serviceable hardware? Check.
    Overpriced hardware and accessories that requires a second mortgage just to afford? Double-check.


    Again, I think it's good enough that I will (begrudgingly) swallow the price the SUrface, but year, at these prices, I do find me asking myself, "Honestly, I might as well be buying Apple for these prices and service limitations..."

    One thing I've always loved about Windows, "good enough" computers for dirt cheap prices (well, not literally, but you get what I'm saying), that I can upgrade via parts off the internet down the road. Oh well, I guess Jobs was right, you gotta tell people what they want, and charge a premium for it to make the best products available. Doesn't mean I'm totally stoked about it, just means Mr. Jobs had a good point.
    10-02-2013 10:59 PM
  22. chezm's Avatar
    I tend to agree with these views. How can we say something is overpriced if it sells? I have not yet personally met anybody who has an iPad that doesn't like it or thought it was a waste of money. FWIW, I work with someone who is a Microsoft MVP and has many Microsoft certifications. He's also one of the biggest Microsoft fans you'll ever meet. What's interesting is that he questions the value of his Surface RT. Of course we MS fans look at the iPad and say it's overpriced, but as slowboy said an item's value is what you're willing to pay for it. Millions are willing to pay for the iPad at its current prices; therefore, it is not overpriced. The RT didn't sell well until they cut the price, so with the same logic you could say it was overpriced.
    He is comparing the SURFACE PRO 2 to the iPAD...whether you prefer the aspect ratio of iPad vs Surface RT/2/PRO is fine...but this guy doesnt even know what hes comparing. Many publications are comparing the PRO2 to the iPAD...yet none of them understand its a tablet vs ultrabook laptop...completely different types of equipment. thats like comparing an iPad to a MacBook Air.
    10-03-2013 10:11 AM
  23. ohgood's Avatar
    He is comparing the SURFACE PRO 2 to the iPAD...whether you prefer the aspect ratio of iPad vs Surface RT/2/PRO is fine...but this guy doesnt even know what hes comparing. Many publications are comparing the PRO2 to the iPAD...yet none of them understand its a tablet vs ultrabook laptop...completely different types of equipment. thats like comparing an iPad to a MacBook Air.
    So there is confusion from reviewers as to which the surface, rt surface2, or surface pro 2 are...

    The bourdon I'd on the reviewers, but it mght not be entirely their fault.

    It certainly won't help if there are three very similar models on display at the sales counter, but confusion about which is which, and what is possible on each.
    10-03-2013 10:23 AM
  24. chezm's Avatar
    So there is confusion from reviewers as to which the surface, rt surface2, or surface pro 2 are...

    The bourdon I'd on the reviewers, but it mght not be entirely their fault.

    It certainly won't help if there are three very similar models on display at the sales counter, but confusion about which is which, and what is possible on each.
    while i agree it can be confusing, i mean this is giving benefit of the doubt here...its the reviewers job to ensure you're REVIEWING the correct model/specs. If they did indeed review the device, dont you think a technical expert would know the difference between Windows RT vs Windows 8 full? I havent used either but assume theres a drastic difference.
    10-03-2013 10:40 AM
  25. Adretheon's Avatar
    while i agree it can be confusing, i mean this is giving benefit of the doubt here...its the reviewers job to ensure you're REVIEWING the correct model/specs. If they did indeed review the device, dont you think a technical expert would know the difference between Windows RT vs Windows 8 full? I havent used either but assume theres a drastic difference.
    You mean aside from the obvious difference that the Pro has a full OS and that the RT only has a tablet OS? It blows my mind to still hear reviews talking about how confusing the RT/Pro difference is. It's really not a hard concept to grasp. It's almost like they've started making up reasons not to like it.
    10-03-2013 02:48 PM
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