Already sick of this

[Allan Kaliel]

In my desire for more, more and more information, I gobbled up about a dozen hands-on previews. About half of them complain about the lack of a strong ecosystem. Despite the hordes of comments at the bottom that this runs full Win 8.1, with it's tens of millions of apps, or as we used to call them, programs. There's no correction, nothing. That's the story they're sticking with.

The other half can be summed up like this:

"I'm trying out the Surface Pro 3 today. Normally I use a Macbook Air, and I love my Macbook Air. The Macbook Air is probably the greatest thing made in the history of ever. Ok, what was I saying again? Oh ya, the Surface Pro 3. It's not too bad, but it's sure not a Macbook Air! Why not? Well it's lighter for one, and comes with a higher resolution, and is way thinner. But it's not Macbook Air'ey enough."

I even saw one hands-on review where the reviewer actually said, "Microsoft wants to compare this to a Macbook Air", but it feels more like it should be compared to the iPad to me. And it's just so expensive compared to the iPad.

Um, what?!

 

[WillysJeepMan]

It's not complicated. Regardless of what Microsoft says, the Surface Pro 3 is a tablet. They don't include a keyboard. Legacy apps aren't pleasant to use with a touch interface. It is the touch-optimized Modern UI apps where the tablet experience excels. And there is still a significant void in the quantity and quality of Modern UI apps.

If Microsoft were to market the Surface Pro 3 as a notebook with a detachable keyboard, then a lot of the criticism would be silenced. But in classic Microsoft fashion, they are sending a mixed and confusing message: "The Surface Pro 3 is a notebook replacement except that you have to pay extra for a keyboard and as a tablet, the apps aren't there." Every Surface ad shows it with the keyboard. And when the keyboard is not being used, they show the stylus. They (rightfully so) avoid showing prolonged use of a Surface with a finger.

 

[JamesPTao]

Can't disagree more. Its not a tablet its a tablet PC... Big distinction. Would you call a Fujitsu q series a tablet that docks to a keyboard?... No. Unfortunately most consumers are ignorent of the distinction and see a tablet and think. Android, amazon fire, iPad. There is a big difference. Horribly simplified, a tablet is an electronic device that runs a phone OS (essential a phone on steroids, not including wrt of course). A tablet PC is a full fledged computer running a desktop/laptop OS.

 

[Allan Kaliel]

I do agree that they really should bundle in the keyboard. It wouldn't cost them much and adoption would probably be quite a bit higher. The thing only costs like $17 to make or something.

 

[Wall iPhone]

@WillyzJeepman Cleary tech journalists work their hardest to confuse the not so tech savvy majority, just look how biased everyone of them are with Apple.

 

[Nimdock]

Yeah, they should include the cover... Particularly after the comparisons to the Air.

 

[Allan Kaliel]

Look at this "review". Beyond words bad.

Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Hands-On: Third Time's Almost the Charm

"Microsoft made it a point to call the Macbook Air its primary competitor, but honestly, the Surface Pro 3 seemed more like a fair rival to the iPad. And at $799 for the Core i3 version without the keyboard, it?s a tough price tag to swallow."

 

[xandros9]

Look at this "review". Beyond words bad.

Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Hands-On: Third Time's Almost the Charm

"Microsoft made it a point to call the Macbook Air its primary competitor, but honestly, the Surface Pro 3 seemed more like a fair rival to the iPad. And at $799 for the Core i3 version without the keyboard, it?s a tough price tag to swallow."

In other news, critics have slammed Tesla's Model S because it just costs too much compared to HP's entire printer lineup and does not offer printing capabilities like the latter.

 

[Cleavitt76]

It's not complicated. Regardless of what Microsoft says, the Surface Pro 3 is a tablet. They don't include a keyboard. Legacy apps aren't pleasant to use with a touch interface. It is the touch-optimized Modern UI apps where the tablet experience excels. And there is still a significant void in the quantity and quality of Modern UI apps.

If Microsoft were to market the Surface Pro 3 as a notebook with a detachable keyboard, then a lot of the criticism would be silenced. But in classic Microsoft fashion, they are sending a mixed and confusing message: "The Surface Pro 3 is a notebook replacement except that you have to pay extra for a keyboard and as a tablet, the apps aren't there." Every Surface ad shows it with the keyboard. And when the keyboard is not being used, they show the stylus. They (rightfully so) avoid showing prolonged use of a Surface with a finger.

I get so tired of hearing about this keyboard not included crap. Let me break it down for you.

Microsoft sells several different keyboard options for the Surface line and there are also several different versions of the Surface devices themselves. It makes zero sense for them to bundle each and every combination of device and keyboard cover. However, just because they package them separately doesn't somehow mean the device "is a tablet" that should be compared directly to other tablets. At the same time it is also not a traditional laptop. It is a hybrid device that doesn't fit the molds that have been defined by its competitors.

Is it really that hard to understand that a device could be something more than just a laptop or a tablet? Are you still trying to figure out if SUVs are actually cars or trucks?

When reviewers compare the SP devices directly to either a tablet or a laptop and only focus on the areas where it is weaker (i.e.: heavier than an iPad, less "lap-ability" than a MacBook) while failing to even mention the areas where it excels (more powerful than an iPad, lighter than a MacBook Air, active digitizer, touch screen, single device, etc.) it is not an honest review. The fact that you are defending the direct comparison between the SP3 and the iPad makes it very clear that you are, at best, incapable of thinking outside of the boxes established by Apple.

Here is an example from the article in question in regards to the active pen...

"One of the cool things about the stylus is the ability to click the top like you would with a pen and write on the Pro 3 to automatically launch OneNote. It?s a nice feature, though it would be cool if you could also wake the device up using just the stylus click in case you didn?t need OneNote. An extra $49 to replace the ten natural styli you?re born with seems a bit excessive even if the click-to-launch-OneNote capacity is neat."​

This is the only mention of the pen in the whole article. No explanation of the pen abilities and the advantages over just using your fingers. A reader would have no idea that you can very precisely write, paint, draw, or control desktop applications using the pen. She dismisses one of the major features of the device as just a way to launch OneNote at a cost of $49.

The bottom line is that this reviewer is just an ***** and she really has no business doing technology reviews. I don't think she is doing this on purpose. I really think she is just too dumb with technology to even comprehend how the differences in a product like the Surface Pro could be utilized by her or anyone else. She is a follower and someone would need to sit down with her and show her (probably more than once) how to do things differently or better. She is not the type that will figure out how to do something new/different/faster by herself.

 

[smoledman]

The bottom line is that this reviewer is just an ***** and she really has no business doing technology reviews. I don't think she is doing this on purpose. I really think she is just too dumb with technology to even comprehend how the differences in a product like the Surface Pro could be utilized by her or anyone else. She is a follower and someone would need to sit down with her and show her (probably more than once) how to do things differently or better. She is not the type that will figure out how to do something new/different/faster by herself.

The reality is the tech media uses Apple products at about 99% level. Who's fault is that - MS dropped the ball in the 2000s with their arrogance and Apple came roaring back with quality/innovative products like the Macbook Air. You're just complaining that Apple won.

 

[Nimdock]

You're just complaining that Apple won.

Oh, it's over?

OK folks pack it up... Better notify Microsoft they have no business competing anymore. WPCentral should be closing the site any time now.

 

[Kevin Rush]

Ref: Cleavitt76,
Very well said. Very well explained. Very well thought out and intelligent.
Thank you for investing your time and thought to this explanation.
I think it is particularly clear and unbiased.

Best wishes, No worries.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I get so tired of hearing about this keyboard not included crap. Let me break it down for you.

Microsoft sells several different keyboard options for the Surface line and there are also several different versions of the Surface devices themselves. It makes zero sense for them to bundle each and every combination of device and keyboard cover.

Really?! What are the several different keyboard options" that Microsoft offers for the Surface Pro 3 line? They offer the TypeCover3. That's it. In different colors. Nothing prevents them from offering a Surface Pro 3 bundle with the black TypeCover3 at a bargain price. And offer the Surface Pro 3 separate for those who want to pick a particular color keyboard. That's not rocket science.

However, just because they package them separately doesn't somehow mean the device "is a tablet" that should be compared directly to other tablets. At the same time it is also not a traditional laptop. It is a hybrid device that doesn't fit the molds that have been defined by its competitors.

Sorry, but as much as you'd like to think differently, for the typical non-Microsoft ****** consumer, a tablet without a keyboard is a tablet... not a notebook replacement. Somehow, because they are sold separately, fanboys will cite the base price of the Surface Pro 3 without the added $130 for a Type Cover 3. Which is EXACTLY what Microsoft was hoping by not providing a SP3+keyboard bundle. Reasonable people won't fall into that trap.

 

[stephen_az]

I get so tired of hearing about this keyboard not included crap. Let me break it down for you.

Microsoft sells several different keyboard options for the Surface line and there are also several different versions of the Surface devices themselves. It makes zero sense for them to bundle each and every combination of device and keyboard cover. However, just because they package them separately doesn't somehow mean the device "is a tablet" that should be compared directly to other tablets. At the same time it is also not a traditional laptop. It is a hybrid device that doesn't fit the molds that have been defined by its competitors.

Is it really that hard to understand that a device could be something more than just a laptop or a tablet? Are you still trying to figure out if SUVs are actually cars or trucks?

When reviewers compare the SP devices directly to either a tablet or a laptop and only focus on the areas where it is weaker (i.e.: heavier than an iPad, less "lap-ability" than a MacBook) while failing to even mention the areas where it excels (more powerful than an iPad, lighter than a MacBook Air, active digitizer, touch screen, single device, etc.) it is not an honest review. The fact that you are defending the direct comparison between the SP3 and the iPad makes it very clear that you are, at best, incapable of thinking outside of the boxes established by Apple.

Here is an example from the article in question in regards to the active pen...

"One of the cool things about the stylus is the ability to click the top like you would with a pen and write on the Pro 3 to automatically launch OneNote. It’s a nice feature, though it would be cool if you could also wake the device up using just the stylus click in case you didn’t need OneNote. An extra $49 to replace the ten natural styli you’re born with seems a bit excessive even if the click-to-launch-OneNote capacity is neat."​

This is the only mention of the pen in the whole article. No explanation of the pen abilities and the advantages over just using your fingers. A reader would have no idea that you can very precisely write, paint, draw, or control desktop applications using the pen. She dismisses one of the major features of the device as just a way to launch OneNote at a cost of $49.

The bottom line is that this reviewer is just an ***** and she really has no business doing technology reviews. I don't think she is doing this on purpose. I really think she is just too dumb with technology to even comprehend how the differences in a product like the Surface Pro could be utilized by her or anyone else. She is a follower and someone would need to sit down with her and show her (probably more than once) how to do things differently or better. She is not the type that will figure out how to do something new/different/faster by herself.

Actually the bottom line is you are showing every bit as much bias as those you criticize. Let me break it down for you re keyboards as just one example. 1) Does Microsoft ship the device with a bundled keyboard at no additional price? 2) Do Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, HP, etc., etc., etc., ship desktop computers with no keyboard because there are lots of models available? 3) What products are traditionally sold without keyboards? 5) Can you rip the keyboard off a MacBook Air or any other laptop and use it? 5) Are there useable (albeit not perfect) tablet applications for an iPad to provide many of the functions of legacy apps for OSX?

Answer all of those questions and you should be able to see why many people insist that Microsoft continues to confuse the matter and dilute the drawing power of its own product. As long as they sell it without a keyboard and you need to purchase one separately, it is not going to be seen by many as a hybrid. From that perspective, it is a very expensive tablet on which you can use legacy applications if you buy a keyboard. Without that keyboard it is simply a tablet with good app support (not great) and legacy applications that are mostly useless in a touch only environment. BTW, the fact that the pen can launch only OneNote is silly to many of us. It merits gimmick status and cries out that they want people to not pay attention to the fact that they abandoned Wacom compatibility in a very pricey business targeted device.

They could have solved this matter since Surface Pro very easily by simply bundling a keyboard at no additional cost. Something that is hardly a major cost item for Microsoft. It is then a hybrid with a unique form factor. The fact that there are several colors and models of keyboards is irrelevant. They could bundle one with the device and people can then buy others as accessories, just as they do with lots of other computer products. I am a very satisfied Surface Pro 2 user and see Surface Pro 3 (other than the non-Wacom pen and the fact it uses the same i5 CPU and GPU as Surface Pro 2) as potentially very nice devices. Those compromises alone though explain why it sits at the same price point. FWIW though, the lack of Wacom compatibility, combined with an ultra high resolution screen, and (quite frankly) last years processors and GPUs also make Surface Pro 3 even more of an oversized tablet from my perspective. The ultra high resolution screen is more of a consumer sell than business one and the lack of Wacom compatibility will hamper it as a business device with many applications. Add consumer features, subtract a business feature, add a gimmicky pen, and don't include a keyboard and what do you have for many? You have a tablet which will be compared to an iPad no matter how much Microsoft wants you to just compare to laptops. It could be (and probably is) a great device but Microsoft's have your cake and eat it too philosophy will continue to inspire people to make all the sorts of comparisons that make a great device look weak. It astounds me they have continued to perpetuate that stupid marketing move through three model cycles....

 

[LumiaIcon]

It's not complicated. Regardless of what Microsoft says, the Surface Pro 3 is a tablet. They don't include a keyboard. Legacy apps aren't pleasant to use with a touch interface. It is the touch-optimized Modern UI apps where the tablet experience excels. And there is still a significant void in the quantity and quality of Modern UI apps.

If Microsoft were to market the Surface Pro 3 as a notebook with a detachable keyboard, then a lot of the criticism would be silenced. But in classic Microsoft fashion, they are sending a mixed and confusing message: "The Surface Pro 3 is a notebook replacement except that you have to pay extra for a keyboard and as a tablet, the apps aren't there." Every Surface ad shows it with the keyboard. And when the keyboard is not being used, they show the stylus. They (rightfully so) avoid showing prolonged use of a Surface with a finger.

Frankly, I think it is more a PC than a tablet, even in its original form. Actually, the fact that we are having this debate simply proves the marketability of the platform. I purchased my Surface Pro as a tablet and quickly ended up adding a USB hub, portable hard drive, mouse, keyboard and wide screen monitor. It became more a PC that I could grab and take with me on business trips than a tablet. I have an iPad and haven't used it in a year.

 

[Squachy]

Its a PC in tablet form.

jack of all trades, master of none.

You want a laptop, you sacrifice the portability the tablet form factor gives you, then you get the clamshell laptop chassis, more power and more everything from the PC side of things.

You want a tablet, you sacrifice x86 capability (unless you get a Atom based win8 tablet) and power for battery life and portability.

you cant have your cake and eat it too, unless you're made of money.

 

[SeeVuPlay]

Actually the bottom line is you are showing every bit as much bias as those you criticize. Let me break it down for you re keyboards as just one example. 1) Does Microsoft ship the device with a bundled keyboard at no additional price? 2) Do Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba, HP, etc., etc., etc., ship desktop computers with no keyboard because there are lots of models available? 3) What products are traditionally sold without keyboards? 5) Can you rip the keyboard off a MacBook Air or any other laptop and use it? 5) Are there useable (albeit not perfect) tablet applications for an iPad to provide many of the functions of legacy apps for OSX?

Answer all of those questions and you should be able to see why many people insist that Microsoft continues to confuse the matter and dilute the drawing power of its own product. As long as they sell it without a keyboard and you need to purchase one separately, it is not going to be seen by many as a hybrid. From that perspective, it is a very expensive tablet on which you can use legacy applications if you buy a keyboard. Without that keyboard it is simply a tablet with good app support (not great) and legacy applications that are mostly useless in a touch only environment. BTW, the fact that the pen can launch only OneNote is silly to many of us. It merits gimmick status and cries out that they want people to not pay attention to the fact that they abandoned Wacom compatibility in a very pricey business targeted device.

They could have solved this matter since Surface Pro very easily by simply bundling a keyboard at no additional cost. Something that is hardly a major cost item for Microsoft. It is then a hybrid with a unique form factor. The fact that there are several colors and models of keyboards is irrelevant. They could bundle one with the device and people can then buy others as accessories, just as they do with lots of other computer products. I am a very satisfied Surface Pro 2 user and see Surface Pro 3 (other than the non-Wacom pen and the fact it uses the same i5 CPU and GPU as Surface Pro 2) as potentially very nice devices. Those compromises alone though explain why it sits at the same price point. FWIW though, the lack of Wacom compatibility, combined with an ultra high resolution screen, and (quite frankly) last years processors and GPUs also make Surface Pro 3 even more of an oversized tablet from my perspective. The ultra high resolution screen is more of a consumer sell than business one and the lack of Wacom compatibility will hamper it as a business device with many applications. Add consumer features, subtract a business feature, add a gimmicky pen, and don't include a keyboard and what do you have for many? You have a tablet which will be compared to an iPad no matter how much Microsoft wants you to just compare to laptops. It could be (and probably is) a great device but Microsoft's have your cake and eat it too philosophy will continue to inspire people to make all the sorts of comparisons that make a great device look weak. It astounds me they have continued to perpetuate that stupid marketing move through three model cycles....

What is wrong with you people...its like talking to a box of rocks! Let me sum this up and make it simple:

Surface cost X dollars
Keyboard costs X dollars

you get to choose if you want to buy a keyboard or not. who cares what commercials show, or what other standards are out there in terms of bundling/packaging. If you wanted it bundled, they would just add the price to the cost...

Look at Xbox One and Kinect...."oh, why do MS force Kinect on us!". they should unbundle"

 

[SeeVuPlay]

Its a PC in tablet form.

jack of all trades, master of none.

You want a laptop, you sacrifice the portability the tablet form factor gives you, then you get the clamshell laptop chassis, more power and more everything from the PC side of things.

You want a tablet, you sacrifice x86 capability (unless you get a Atom based win8 tablet) and power for battery life and portability.

you cant have your cake and eat it too, unless you're made of money.

simply not true for everyone.

It's portable and has great battery life, just like the IPAD and can do more than the IPAD. It has great productivity and supports pen technology and more portable than laptops...so has more capability there as well. Definitely doesnt master any one trade, but pretty darn good at everything computer related.

But let me ask this question of you....name a product that is a master of its trade.

 

[radmanvr]

I think the main issue is Mac users are reviewing the SP3. If it was a PC user reviewing it. It might be different. Apple doesn't give their consumers with different type covers, pen, mouse, stylus etc.

Apple says this is what you get and that's it. So when Mac users get presented with options for the SP3 they get all discombobulated.

 

[edoug]

I'm interested in seeing hoe the pen works, I had high hopes I'd want yo use the pen with my surface pro but I just couldn't keep at it for more than a fee weeks at a time and typing was always faster and more accurate.