The lack of real lapability

[Editguy1900]

While it's obvious that the Surface IS lapable, I've been using laptops for fifteen years and in all of that time I've only used them on my lap a handful of times. I find it to be very uncomfortable fatiguing for posture reasons. And when I tried it with my Macbook from school (I'm a teacher), I found the heat to be uncomfortable on my legs, even with jeans on. Finally, I don't rely much on tech bloggers for advice about anything (although, since I've been coming to WPC I've made an exception) because most of them know very little of what they are writing about, and far too much of it is simply biased opinion.

 

[blehblehbleh]

There's no need to be 100% rock solid. You just need it to be completely stable while you work and the Surface is that.

This is totally true even with laptops. As a man that's 6'2" with a bit more proportion in my legs I find the best I can get sitting cross legged with a 13" or 15.6" laptop is stable (which amounts to a balancing act on one knee). Anything rock solid for me, cross legged wise, is uncomfortable.

 

[ExTrAbUtTa]

I think the issue is that people want what will never be 100% to a laptop (seating/position wise) when talking about the Surface Pro lineup. The strides the Surface team have made with creating the SP3 with a Friction Hinge for multiple position use, is to be applauded. I also wonder, what else can be done? What some people want is a hard bottom on the Type Cover's, essentially creating a laptop/ultrabook. Wisely, MS has chosen to not offer yet ANOTHER Ultrabook, but a hybrid device that can bridge the gap between tablet and laptop. Its a unique proposition and one that everyone will NOT like. That's a given. Aside from creating a much, much better kickstand, MS has done as much as anyone could suggest as for "lapability". The next step and we mind as well create a traditional laptop/ultrabook. Something MS is moving away from to truly differentiate themselves from their OEM partners and the competition.

I've used the SP3 in my lap and it is a lot more stable to use in your lap. For those, that this doesn't work, that means its not an option for you (unfortunately). That doesn't mean that MS isn't doing this right or is wrong, it means that for you in particular, this device does not work. It's like complaining that a Porsche Cayenne Turbo can't return the same lap times as a 911 Turbo. If that is the case, proceed to purchase the item that better suits YOUR needs. Even Porsche themselves will market a Cayenne as the "911 of SUVs" a vehicle that can do it all. There are compromises (because there will always be those), but at this iteration you'd be pulling hairs, basically. If the SP3 is not "lapable" for you, then its not the design (the design will always be tablet-based first, with features helping transform the device into a lapable one), its the hard truth that this device won't work for your scenario. They all don't and never have. I would never complain about an iPad lacking the ability to do "real" work, because I would never buy one if my use case involved real work.

I think (in my opinion) we need to look at this SP3, understanding is idea of personal computing. Its not going to have a solid base, because that is literally another laptop. A 2 in 1 is being created by their OEM partners and is still nothing to get overly excited about. I personally feel, that there are no trade-offs with the SP3, just gains.

 

[falconeight]

The only thing wrong with this piece of tech is that the price is high and it doesn't come with the type cover. If Microsoft wants it to battle the macbook air then it needs a keyboard bundled. Other than that it is a beautiful device that raises the bar pretty damn high.

 

[anon(5445874)]

The only thing wrong with this piece of tech is that the price is high and it doesn't come with the type cover. If Microsoft wants it to battle the macbook air then it needs a keyboard bundled. Other than that it is a beautiful device that raises the bar pretty damn high.

But it's not over priced. For what you are getting, this is cheep.

 

[theefman]

The only thing wrong with this piece of tech is that the price is high and it doesn't come with the type cover. If Microsoft wants it to battle the macbook air then it needs a keyboard bundled. Other than that it is a beautiful device that raises the bar pretty damn high.

Have you actually done a price comparison with comparable Ultrabooks? You might be surprised that the SP3+ type cover are priced competitively.

 

[falconeight]

But it's not over priced. For what you are getting, this is cheep.

It's positioned against MacBook airs and it doesn't have a keyboard. You can't have completions for something that is missing a part that is necessary.

 

[falconeight]

Have you actually done a price comparison with comparable Ultrabooks? You might be surprised that the SP3+ type cover are priced competitively.

They aren't fighting ultra books they are going against MacBooks and they are overpriced when you compare them. Awesome product but for the price the keyboard should be in the box. $130 for a keyboard and it's to much.

 

[anon(5445874)]

It's positioned against MacBook airs and it doesn't have a keyboard. You can't have completions for something that is missing a part that is necessary.

But the MacBook air is $899 to start for the 11 inch (13inch is $999) and it doesn't include a touch screen or pen So they cannot compete. Plus the surface is slimmer and lighter. So, it looks like the price is just right. And there's no need to include the keyboard. Some people might want to just use their current keyboard. And to be honest, I love the surface type keyboard 2, but the surface with the on screen keyboard is awesome. And the pen input to do hand writing instead of typing is very good too.

 

[falconeight]

But the MacBook air is $899 to start for the 11 inch (13inch is $999) and it doesn't include a touch screen or pen So they cannot compete. Plus the surface is slimmer and lighter. So, it looks like the price is just right. And there's no need to include the keyboard. Some people might want to just use their current keyboard. And to be honest, I love the surface type keyboard 2, but the surface with the on screen keyboard is awesome. And the pen input to do hand writing instead of typing is very good too.

$930 for a I3......an I3, I would pay over $600 for anything with an I3. Actually I wouldn't even consider one, so that raises the price even higher. You can compare what you get and don't get and that's fine. One has a touch screen and higher res, the other has a better processor, bigger screen, and arguably the best keyboard in the market. Plus the trackpad on MacBooks are something others dream of having on their devices. The fact is that Microsoft finally made a great product and priced it too high for most people. All I'm saying is throw in the keyboard if your going to advertise it as a MacBook Air killer. Keep the samesung pen and give me the keyboard.

 

[anon(5445874)]

$930 for a I3......an I3, I would pay over $600 for anything with an I3. Actually I wouldn't even consider one, so that raises the price even higher. You can compare what you get and don't get and that's fine. One has a touch screen and higher res, the other has a better processor, bigger screen, and arguably the best keyboard in the market. The fact is that Microsoft finally made a great product and priced it too high for most people. All I'm saying is throw in the keyboard if your going to advertise it as a MacBook Air killer.

Well, i'm still not sold on that it's overpriced. For what it is, it's really cheep. Once you use a touch screen it's hard to go back, the MacBook is lacking there.. If they added a touch screen to the MacBook, i'm sure that would raise the price by a few hundred dollars. They should include that, this is the 21st century after all.

 

[falconeight]

Well, i'm still not sold on that it's overpriced. For what it is, it's really cheep. Once you use a touch screen it's hard to go back, the MacBook is lacking there.. If they added a touch screen to the MacBook, i'm sure that would raise the price by a few hundred dollars. They should include that, this is the 21st century after all.

I have used a MacBook for over 8 years and even today never felt that it needed a touchscreen. Is it nice? Sure it is, and necessary if your selling a MacBook killer without a keyboard.

 

[anon(5445874)]

I have used a MacBook for over 8 years and even today never felt that it needed a touchscreen. Is it nice? Sure it is, and necessary if your selling a MacBook killer without a keyboard.

Of course you won't have the need for a touch screen because you're not use to it. Once you do, when you use other peoples laptops, the first thing you'll do is raise your hand up to scroll, click or swipe. Then you realize, oh, this is a pc from the 20th century and not the 21st.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Of course you won't have the need for a touch screen because you're not use to it. Once you do, when you use other peoples laptops, the first thing you'll do is raise your hand up to scroll, click or swipe. Then you realize, oh, this is a pc from the 20th century and not the 21st.

I have a touchscreen ultrabook, and I rarely touch the screen.

 

[anon(5445874)]

I have a touchscreen ultrabook, and I rarely touch the screen.

Really? I find myself doing it constantly on my surface. I do use the track pad a lot, but a lot of times its faster and easier to just touch the screen. Maybe it's just me, but it drives me nuts using a regular screen.

 

[Laura Knotek]

Really? I find myself doing it constantly on my surface. I do use the track pad a lot, but a lot of times its faster and easier to just touch the screen. Maybe it's just me, but it drives me nuts using a regular screen.

I'm in the desktop most of the time (mainly because many of the mod tools that I need for the forums work better in desktop and in browsers other than IE). I have my Modern apps that I use most pinned to my taskbar and use alt-tab to switch.

 

[mpt15]

Really? I find myself doing it constantly on my surface. I do use the track pad a lot, but a lot of times its faster and easier to just touch the screen. Maybe it's just me, but it drives me nuts using a regular screen.

I use the touchscreen a lot too, even though I have a mouse. And I've found myself reaching for the screen in non-touch laptops as well. Aarghhhhh.... Can't get over using touch screens. It's quite convenient to use, and no it's not painful to have the arm outstretched to touch the screen, as some people complain in reviews.

 

[darthhen]

Seems like this thread kinda got off topic, which is lapability.

Honestly, I was like "what the f***" when I saw the word lapability. Is that even a word? You can prepend anything to "ability." Good Microsoft marketing. :excited:

Anyways, going back to lapability. My personal opinion is that SP3 does NOT offer the same EXACT use model as a regular laptop. The reason why I say this is because it simply doesn't have the flat base that a regular laptop has. I believe what Microsoft is driving at is that SP3 is more usable on your lap compared to tablets (iPad, Galaxy, Nexus 7..., even SP1/2). The new adjustable kickstand allows much wider position than previous SPs. With SP1, it is very difficult to use it on your laptop unless you're laying back on couch. If I was sitting on a dining room chair (which is a more upright position), I pretty much had to use SP1 in tablet mode.

I did pre-order a SP3. And I am hoping that the new kickstand will be effective and useful based on what Microsoft is trying to sell us. So will wait and see.

My $0.02...

 

[anon(5445874)]

Seems like this thread kinda got off topic, which is lapability.

Honestly, I was like "what the f***" when I saw the word lapability. Is that even a word? You can prepend anything to "ability." Good Microsoft marketing. :excited:

Anyways, going back to lapability. My personal opinion is that SP3 does NOT offer the same EXACT use model as a regular laptop. The reason why I say this is because it simply doesn't have the flat base that a regular laptop has. I believe what Microsoft is driving at is that SP3 is more usable on your lap compared to tablets (iPad, Galaxy, Nexus 7..., even SP1/2). The new adjustable kickstand allows much wider position than previous SPs. With SP1, it is very difficult to use it on your laptop unless you're laying back on couch. If I was sitting on a dining room chair (which is a more upright position), I pretty much had to use SP1 in tablet mode.

I did pre-order a SP3. And I am hoping that the new kickstand will be effective and useful based on what Microsoft is trying to sell us. So will wait and see.

My $0.02...

But I wanted 3 cents!!!! I guess we do live in a world where it's normal to make up words.

 

[smoledman]

Factors against lapability:

* the kickstand digs into the legs - causing pain over time
* the device requires more work to setup compared to a clamshell
* the device is unbalanced compared to a clamshell laptop(top heavy), 800g for the device and 290g for the Touch Cover. Compare that with a near 50/50 split on a Macbook Air.

​none of these things are untrue.