why is buying a separate keyboard a big deal?

[ytrewq]

Let me get this straight: Are all of you saying that you thought the keyboard came with the device? No, clearly you knew better. I certainly knew better when I bought mine. And so does everythone else. Stop pretending that the reason you are all so upset is that you feel bad for all the people who got duped. No one got duped. We all know it doesn't come with the keyboard. Anyone who has read a single review knows that. And all of you knew that.

Quit your whining. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it.

 

[ytrewq]

If you think that is the equivalent then I don't think I have the capability of explaining the situation in way that you would be able to understand.

You can't explain it because it is totally illogical.

My analogy is a perfect one: No one has been duped into thinking the Surface Pro 3 comes with a keyboard. In fact, everyone who is whining and complaining is whining and complaining precisely because they know it doesn't come with a keyboard.

Your elusive "explanation" is that you think that, unlike you, everyone else is too stupid to see that it doesn't come with the keyboard, and you are angry at Microsoft for duping them, and that is why everyone is upset. You are wrong. Everyone understands that it doesn't come with the keyboard. People aren't whining because folks are being duped; people are whining simply because they would rather pay less.

And if you don't get that, I don't think I can explain it to you in words you are capable of understanding.

 

[mikeakanice]

Let me get this straight: Are all of you saying that you thought the keyboard came with the device? No, clearly you knew better. I certainly knew better when I bought mine. And so does everythone else. Stop pretending that the reason you are all so upset is that you feel bad for all the people who got duped. No one got duped. We all know it doesn't come with the keyboard. Anyone who has read a single review knows that. And all of you knew that.

Quit your whining. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it.

I don't see how you don't get it. This isn't just about people on this forum who know that it doesn't come with a keyboard. It's about the public in general who most likely wouldn't know by microsofts advertising campaign that the tablet that will replace your laptop and tablet (Microsofts on words), won't come with a keyboard. How can you replace a laptop without a keyboard? You can't. You're either not understanding the argument or are just trying to be argumentative. But between your comparisons of the gaming consoles and this statement you aren't coming off very well in this argument.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Let me get this straight: Are all of you saying that you thought the keyboard came with the device? No, clearly you knew better. I certainly knew better when I bought mine. And so does everythone else. Stop pretending that the reason you are all so upset is that you feel bad for all the people who got duped. No one got duped. We all know it doesn't come with the keyboard. Anyone who has read a single review knows that. And all of you knew that.

Quit your whining. If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it.

I suggest reading this thread again... this time without the influence of your emotional attachment to Microsoft. No one is "upset". No one claims that anyone got "duped".

 

[ytrewq]

The Microsoft Store webpage you reference clearly identifies the keyboard as an accessory available for purchase separately. Here is the page your reference: New Surface Pro 3 Tablet - The Tablet That Can Replace Your Laptop

Nowhere does the page say it comes with a keyboard. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and you will see that it clearly says, "Accessories for your Surface Pro 3," and the first one is "Surface Pro Type Cover," with a button to pre-order the cover.

I have seen dozens of posts from people saying they had pre-ordered the SP3 AND a type cover. All of those people clearly knew the cover wasn't included. I have yet to see anyone say that they had pre-ordered the SP3 but didn't order the type cover because they thought it was included. You guys are trying to hard to pretend there is this huge group of duped consumers out there, when in fact there are none. If they exist, you would think they would speak up for themselves with a loud enough voice that all of you wouldn't need to complain for them.

 

[ytrewq]

I suggest reading this thread again... this time without the influence of your emotional attachment to Microsoft. No one is "upset". No one claims that anyone got "duped".

I was responding to your post above, in which you said, "EVERY Surface ad shows the Surface with a keyboard. Little screen time is given showing it without it. It is reasonable for people to assume that the keyboard is included. To not include it gives some people the impression that Microsoft is as conniving as those "as seen on TV" companies. This is not rocket science."

If you weren't claiming that people were duped by the commercials, then you didn't express yourself very well.

 

[mikeakanice]

The Microsoft Store webpage you reference clearly identifies the keyboard as an accessory available for purchase separately. Here is the page your reference: New Surface Pro 3 Tablet - The Tablet That Can Replace Your Laptop

Nowhere does the page say it comes with a keyboard. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and you will see that it clearly says, "Accessories for your Surface Pro 3," and the first one is "Surface Pro Type Cover," with a button to pre-order the cover.

I have seen dozens of posts from people saying they had pre-ordered the SP3 AND a type cover. All of those people clearly knew the cover wasn't included. I have yet to see anyone say that they had pre-ordered the SP3 but didn't order the type cover because they thought it was included. You guys are trying to hard to pretend there is this huge group of duped consumers out there, when in fact there are none. If they exist, you would think they would speak up for themselves with a loud enough voice that all of you wouldn't need to complain for them.

That's AFTER the fact that you either register, or log in to the website. And after you select the surface model you want. So that's like me showing you a car, making you sign a bunch of documents, then telling you that the tires are extra. Wtf wouldn't I assume a laptop replacement comes with a keyboard. Look at the damn page. It has the microsoft surface pro WITH A KEYBOARD. You're just trolling at this point and I'm done responding to you,

 

[ytrewq]

I don't see how you don't get it. This isn't just about people on this forum who know that it doesn't come with a keyboard. It's about the public in general who most likely wouldn't know by microsofts advertising campaign that the tablet that will replace your laptop and tablet (Microsofts on words), won't come with a keyboard. How can you replace a laptop without a keyboard? You can't. You're either not understanding the argument or are just trying to be argumentative. But between your comparisons of the gaming consoles and this statement you aren't coming off very well in this argument.

If you believe there are people in the general public who are confused, then wouldn't you expect there to be at least one person out there who bought one, found out it didn't have a keyboard, and complained about it? And yet, there are no such complaints.

Out of these 102 Amazon reviews of the Surface Pro 2, there are no such complaints by someone who was confused. Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Microsoft - Surface Pro 2 with 128GB - Dark Titanium

Out of these 432 Amazon reviews of the original Surface Pro, there are no such complaints. http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Sur...ag=hawk-future-20&ascsubtag=UUwpUvbUpU2566259

While there are plenty of people who say they wish a keyboard was included, I have yet to see a single complaint that someone who bought a Surface was upset because they incorrectly thought a keyboard was included. And absent a single such complaint, your frustration about some mass consuming public being misled is simply fabricated. Whether people who disagree with me think I'm "coming off well" has nothing to do with the fact that you are simply wrong about this non-existent mass of misled consumers.

 

[ytrewq]

That's AFTER the fact that you either register, or log in to the website. And after you select the surface model you want. So that's like me showing you a car, making you sign a bunch of documents, then telling you that the tires are extra. Wtf wouldn't I assume a laptop replacement comes with a keyboard. Look at the damn page. It has the microsoft surface pro WITH A KEYBOARD. You're just trolling at this point and I'm done responding to you,

No, you don't have to be logged in to see what I described, and you don't have to select the model you want. I'm not logged in, and it's right there, staring me in the face. And I didn't have to select any model. All I did was go to the store's home page, and click on the link "Introducing the 12-inch ultra-powerful Surface Pro 3." And the information about the keyboard being an accessory was right there.

Calling me a troll and saying you won't respond is simply an emotional reaction to the fact that you have been proven wrong. Admit your error and move on.

 

[SeeVuPlay]

The Microsoft Store webpage you reference clearly identifies the keyboard as an accessory available for purchase separately. Here is the page your reference: New Surface Pro 3 Tablet - The Tablet That Can Replace Your Laptop

Nowhere does the page say it comes with a keyboard. Scroll to the bottom of the page, and you will see that it clearly says, "Accessories for your Surface Pro 3," and the first one is "Surface Pro Type Cover," with a button to pre-order the cover.

I have seen dozens of posts from people saying they had pre-ordered the SP3 AND a type cover. All of those people clearly knew the cover wasn't included. I have yet to see anyone say that they had pre-ordered the SP3 but didn't order the type cover because they thought it was included. You guys are trying to hard to pretend there is this huge group of duped consumers out there, when in fact there are none. If they exist, you would think they would speak up for themselves with a loud enough voice that all of you wouldn't need to complain for them.

I believe it is more a case of 2 things.
1. We want it for free
2. We want MS to sell more surfaces and giving the kb away will help.


All the talk about ads and competing directly with x product are just nonsense.

 

[Editguy1900]

Its not an accessory its like tires on a car. Its going to be the reason people don't buy this thing. Its more like beer without the can. They just pour it in your hands at the store. Or maybe Microsoft should have advertised it as an extremely expensive tablet that can be turned into a top heavy macbook for an extra $130.

It's not like tires on a car. I can't use a car without tires. I can use the SP3 without the keyboard cover (and, for my purposes, I wouldn't want or need the keyboard cover)

 

[ytrewq]

I believe it is more a case of 2 things.
1. We want it for free
2. We want MS to sell more surfaces and giving the kb away will help.

I agree completely.

I think MS's goal here SHOULD be to develop a robust market for Windows tablets/hybrids/whatever so that hardware manufacturers want to bring Windows devices to market and consumers want to buy them. But because MS was years late to the game with a touch-optimized OS, consumers/manufacturers/developers are focused on the Android and iOS systems that have dominated the market for years. MS has to do something pretty drastic if it wants to get the attention of consumers, developers, and manufacturers. Building a great device and selling it at a reasonable price is not going to make that happen. MS needs to acknowledge that it blew it by being late to the party, and offer a spectacular enough bargain that people can't help but start looking at Microsoft.

The current pricing will sell tablets to people like me, but it's not going to get the world to switch to Microsoft. If they really wanted to do that, they not only need to throw in the keyboard for free, but they need to knock a couple hundred dollars off the price so that people can't justify buying anything but a Surface. After six months, when people have grown to love the device, and the consumers and developers are flocking to MS mobile, then take away the discount and let the other hardware partners take over the market.

 

[mikeakanice]

Honestly I really feel like the touch cover should have been free while the power touch cover should have the high cost. On a side note. Is there a reason the power touch cover isn't being mentioned by Microsoft? Seems like a no brainer to me unless it would react funny to the surface device.

 

[trivor]

I think the car analogy is a very good one. When you buy a Ford Focus or Chevy Cruze you are buying inexpensive transportation. When you buy a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air (and that's what Satya Nadella was comparing the Surface Pro 3 with) at $900+ dollars you don't expect to be missing a key component - the Keyboard - it turns people off. The lowest practical price for the Surface Pro 3 is $929 and comparable MacBook Air is $899 - for a 1368x768 screen @ 11.6", core i5, 128 GB SSD, 4 GB RAM @ 2.38 lbs. I didn't start this comparison, the CEO of MS did.

 

[SeeVuPlay]

I think the car analogy is a very good one. When you buy a Ford Focus or Chevy Cruze you are buying inexpensive transportation. When you buy a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air (and that's what Satya Nadella was comparing the Surface Pro 3 with) at $900+ dollars you don't expect to be missing a key component - the Keyboard - it turns people off. The lowest practical price for the Surface Pro 3 is $929 and comparable MacBook Air is $899 - for a 1368x768 screen @ 11.6", core i5, 128 GB SSD, 4 GB RAM @ 2.38 lbs. I didn't start this comparison, the CEO of MS did.

The cool thing about car analogies is that everyone can be right... for instance, the BMW on the showroom looked amazing! I sat down with the dealer and saw the price just shoot up due to adding the spoiler and nicer rims. How can they sell such a high end vehicle (Surface) without including the things (keyboard) that make it cool and awesome! All I get are wheels (touch screen) and a nice sound system (pen). They should not have that car on the showroom if they did not intend to sell it that way.

 

[SeeVuPlay]

I agree completely.

I think MS's goal here SHOULD be to develop a robust market for Windows tablets/hybrids/whatever so that hardware manufacturers want to bring Windows devices to market and consumers want to buy them. But because MS was years late to the game with a touch-optimized OS, consumers/manufacturers/developers are focused on the Android and iOS systems that have dominated the market for years. MS has to do something pretty drastic if it wants to get the attention of consumers, developers, and manufacturers. Building a great device and selling it at a reasonable price is not going to make that happen. MS needs to acknowledge that it blew it by being late to the party, and offer a spectacular enough bargain that people can't help but start looking at Microsoft.

The current pricing will sell tablets to people like me, but it's not going to get the world to switch to Microsoft. If they really wanted to do that, they not only need to throw in the keyboard for free, but they need to knock a couple hundred dollars off the price so that people can't justify buying anything but a Surface. After six months, when people have grown to love the device, and the consumers and developers are flocking to MS mobile, then take away the discount and let the other hardware partners take over the market.

I agree with everything you say....if MS gave the kb away, I would gladly take it. Who wouldnt? I also agree that if they want to increase market share quicker that they should give it away. I'm totally on board with that. Where I have an issue is people who expect it for free....because of their own assumptions (as well as some of the reviewers who keep repeating the same thing and so people who read the reviews repeat the same thing). I still have yet to hear a person tell me why they "deserve" one without paying for it. The bottom line is that you don't. Until they opt to give it away, package it in a bundle, etc., you will pay $130 for it. A commercial is not a reason something should be free...the competition is not a reason something should be free. these are the reasons I hear that people are using to justify why it should be free.

My suggestion is to buy one, move on, or wait....but you do not deserve something for free.

 

[SeeVuPlay]

It's about the public in general who most likely wouldn't know by microsofts advertising campaign that the tablet that will replace your laptop and tablet (Microsofts on words), won't come with a keyboard. How can you replace a laptop without a keyboard?

I dont agree here....and it's not that confusing for Joe Bloe. How can you replace a laptop with a tablet? You buy the tablet and the keyboard. It's that simple. Joe Bloe will walk into the store and say "whoooaa! I can replace the laptop with this if I purchase the tablet and the keyboard?!"

There is this weird notion that this will be so confusing, and it really isnt. But, I will agree that sales will be lost. But that's not what I am arguing.

 

[L Beezy]

For me, it's all about portability. I need something sleek and streamline so that I don't have to carry two 1000-page books AND a binder full of engineering notes/worksheets/tests AND a SP3 with a Bluetooth keyboard and a mouse. I'd rather have the Type Cover with the trackpad, even though i know that the type cover costs more than it needs to be.

The problem with the Surface lines is how Microsoft is marketing it. They initially claim it's a tablet that can be a laptop instead of being a laptop that can be a tablet. That's where the Type/Touch covers come into play--if they continue to claim it as the first choice, they can sell the covers separately as they do now. However, if they claim it to be as the latter, they would have to make it come with a keyboard. This tablet-to-laptop marketing, to me, is hurting the true capability and strength of the Surface brand. I would rather them bundle the keyboard/tablet together with a slightly higher price so it can now be sold as it is intended to be--a laptop that is also a tablet.

 

[amanowar]

Kind of like how every PS4 commercial shows people playing games on the PS4, so we all expect the games to be included, but it turns out you have to buy them separately, so everyone whines and complains about how Sony is an underhanded "as seen on TV" company.

Certainly those are reasonable comparisons, but I think many of the people complaining see it more as selling a violin without the bow, a lock without a key, or a PS4 without a controller. They see the need as being too great to separate the components. And since the Surface Pro 3 is now being touted as a laptop replacement, it seems reasonable to me that they have this expectation because they have been trained to expect a keyboard with a laptop.

 

[Wit4Breakfast]

I think the car analogy is a very good one. When you buy a Ford Focus or Chevy Cruze you are buying inexpensive transportation. When you buy a MacBook Pro or MacBook Air (and that's what Satya Nadella was comparing the Surface Pro 3 with) at $900+ dollars you don't expect to be missing a key component - the Keyboard - it turns people off. The lowest practical price for the Surface Pro 3 is $929 and comparable MacBook Air is $899 - for a 1368x768 screen @ 11.6", core i5, 128 GB SSD, 4 GB RAM @ 2.38 lbs. I didn't start this comparison, the CEO of MS did.

My first though after I read your analogy was "this person has never purchased a luxury car." Because here is the thing, luxury cars don't come standard with any more options than a Chevy Cruze, and all the options are overpriced. It's a great idea for Porche, Mercedes, Jag...etc. to overprice the accessories because the people buying their cars in the first place really aren't looking for a bargain and are willing to shell out unreasonable prices for interior lighting options and floor mats.

Guys and girls. Microsoft is running a business. If you can afford an expensive premier product, they expect that you can shell out more for an accessory that most of us find essential. We whine and moan but ALL OF US are going to buy the thing regardless. If they can cut a nice profit...they are making a smart choice. It's a nice high profit margin cherry to go on the top.