Still undecided (SP3 vs. rMBP)

[maflynn]

Ugh, here I am, with a pre-order of a 256GB SP3 in the queue and I'm still on the fence as to whether I should sell my retina MacBook Pro. Given the cost and my usage habits, it has to be one or the other.

I work for a company that qualifies for the edu discount - yay me, so my cost is in the 1,200 range for the tablet and keyboard cover. My work also gives me an allowance of up to 500 dollars towards a new computer so in theory (excluding taxes being taken out of that allowance), my out of pocket expense would be 700.

I'm in windows on my Mac more then OSX these days, I find Office to be vastly superior in windows then OSX and other tools that I need for day to day usage cause me stay in windows - I'm also like win8.1 more these days. Yet I'm worried that the Surface Pro may be step down in my user experience. I'm not worried about performance since I'm not a game player and the lack of a discrete gpu on the SP3 doesn't bother me.

I'll be visiting my local MS store after June 6th to get some hands on time but that doesn't help my obsessive behavior right now :winktongue:

 

[mikeakanice]

Can't go wrong with apple or microsoft no matter what each sides ****** says. I think the major difference between the two are the stylus though. If you will benefit from the stylus then get it. If you won't then go with apple since you can run parallel.

User experience though is very subjective. I find both windows and and Mavericks to be equally easy to understand and enjoy both when I use it. If you can afford to keep your rmbp though I would and I would also get the sp3. Nothing like having the best of both worlds.

 

[Reflexx]

What about user experience do you think could be a step down if you're mainly in Windows when you're using your Mac anyways?

With the SP3 you get a touch screen, detachable keyboard, and a stylus. Those are three things that I imagine would add to your user experience instead of taking away from it.

 

[maflynn]

What about user experience do you think could be a step down if you're mainly in Windows when you're using your Mac anyways?

I'm not sure, I'm worried about something I had not considered. For instance, one thing that I have considered was its lapability, from reviews, its vastly superior to the SP2 because of the improved kickstand but those same reviewers state in the same breath that it still does not equal a laptop in your lap, due to weight distribution, i.e., laptop's weight is centered under the keyboard, the SP3 is the display. The keyboard is a concern compared to a laptop keyboard. I'm not terribly worried about that, but I just mention it as an example.

 

[Wit4Breakfast]

I'm not sure, I'm worried about something I had not considered. For instance, one thing that I have considered was its lapability, from reviews, its vastly superior to the SP2 because of the improved kickstand but those same reviewers state in the same breath that it still does not equal a laptop in your lap, due to weight distribution, i.e., laptop's weight is centered under the keyboard, the SP3 is the display. The keyboard is a concern compared to a laptop keyboard. I'm not terribly worried about that, but I just mention it as an example.

The real issue with "lapability" is the positioning of the keyboard (in my opinion). I used to the surface pro 2 on my lap and it wasn't that bad, though obviously not as good as a laptop. I didn't intend to replace my laptop with the surface pro 2, I just bought the thing because it's a neat piece of kit, but within a month my laptop was sitting in the tech drawer with my random chord collection.

How much did "lapability" play into this transition? Almost none. When I actually have to get work done there is almost always a table (office, coffee shop etc.). I do travel for work and the airport is probably the only place I actually ever had the thing on my lap getting work done. While the surface pro 2 wasn't as good as a clamshell laptop, it was FINE. It never fell off my lap or caused a severe decrease in productivity. It just didn't FEEL as comfortable or as stable.

My bottom line is this. I suspect that if you're a normal user you find yourself actually typing on your lap only a small fraction of the time. I suspect you'll find the surface pro 3 form factor not ideal, but up to the challenge. For literally everything else I found the surface superior.

 

[Reflexx]

I think that if you use make good use of OneNote, you'll end up so attached to your new workflow that you couldn't imagine not having it because of the downgrade in user experience you'd have not having a pen or touch screen.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I'm not sure, I'm worried about something I had not considered. For instance, one thing that I have considered was its lapability, from reviews, its vastly superior to the SP2 because of the improved kickstand but those same reviewers state in the same breath that it still does not equal a laptop in your lap, due to weight distribution, i.e., laptop's weight is centered under the keyboard, the SP3 is the display. The keyboard is a concern compared to a laptop keyboard. I'm not terribly worried about that, but I just mention it as an example.

You know best how much you use your notebook in your lap. I almost never use a notebook directly in my lap but use some sort of lapdesk... I have a few of different sizes and constructions.

If you DO use your notebook in your lap, I'd suggest holding off on the SP3 until you can actually try one... sitting in a chair and having it on your lap. There are a variety of factors that affect "lapability". The distance between the edge of the kickstand and the front of the keyboard may cause the keyboard to be too close to your waist/stomach for comfort (depending upon the angle of the kickstand... greater the angle the greater the distance, and the length of your lap).

The quality of the keys will be fine. But the weight of the tablet vs. weight of the keyboard might cause the keyboard to move/vibrate as you type. The greater concern (for me) is the quality of the trackpad. The trackpad on the TypeCover2 is absolutely the worst that I've used, anywhere. This is the 2nd generation of the Type Cover, where they claimed to have increased the quality and increased the price. I don't care what Panay says in a presentation, I'll need to see for myself exactly what it was that he "heard the complaints about the trackpad".

 

[Jan Tomsic]

What's your question? Seems like you already explained everything yourself.
I don't know how SP keyboard is, you might wanna check that out if you type directly on your keyboard a lot, if you're having it docked then it doesn't matter really.
I'd be more sure of getting SP if the keyboard was hard instead of flexible, and now I'm used to mechanical keyboard, so these touch and laptop keyboards all feel like peeing on grass rather than typing.
It's a great device though, I'd gladly get it, if I didn't already have a desktop and a laptop, for someone who actually needs a computer to work and travels a lot, SP3 is great, you just need a dock and bigger screen (and mechanical keyboard) and mouse at home (or work, wherever you spend more time, or everywhere), and you're all set. It won't run the newest games, but you don't play games so that's a non issue.
I don't know much about OSX, but I know enough to know that I prefer Windows, and once you plug in external peripherals you can't tell you're not using a desktop computer anymore. It really depends why you need OSX because apart from Apple applications pretty much everything is available on Windows as well. Getting a Windows computer (desktop, laptop or tablet) over Apple one is a no brainer for me, I'd get Windows every time. And you can always dual boot Ubuntu on any machine, even surface, if there's need for it

 

[maflynn]

All great suggestions, it was a good idea for me to put down my issues, insofar to crystallize my thoughts and determine what solution is best. I was mulling this over further during my lunch hour run which was helpful as well.

As per WillysJeepMan's suggestion I am holding off, not cancelling my order but holding off - I have no choice to hold off since it won't ship until the end of the month. That gives me time to head to a MS store and play with one. That should definitely answer the lapability question to an extent. I'll at least be able to make an informed decision on this after trying it.

I think the biggest part of my concern is the unknown which obviously we all take a chance, I'm kind of being on the bleeding edge not waiting until the SP3 has been on the market for a while. The advantage of waiting is that I let others find the bugs and short comings. The downside is not getting my hands on some pretty fantastic technology

Lastly I think letting go of the Mac/OSX is the final inhibitor. What I mean by that is while I've used windows since version 1 (yes version 1), and I support windows servers and desktops at work, i've had a Mac for countless years. Leaving the OSX platform to some degree is a little disconcerting even though the Mac boots into windows 9 times out 10 (and I'll still have macs in the household).

All in all, I think after reading this thread and looking at my must haves and wish list, the SP3 is the right choice - though I am rolling the dice a bit since there's scant information out there on the SP3..

 

[acegamer]

Yeah I agree that if you actually use your laptop in your lap a lot then you are better off waiting until you can try the SP3 for yourself. I had the SP2 and loved it. Just recently sold it to make way for the SP3. I however never used mine in my lap for any rigorous typing. When using it for work purposes I always had a table available. When I used it for leisure at home on my lap it was mostly in tablet mode except for when I wanted to make the occasional post on a forum. The SP2 keyboard was perfectly fine for that. No need to sell your rMBP until you've had a chance to try the SP3 out. They are supposed to be on display starting June 6th so hopefully you can find one and give it a try before the June 20th ship date.

 

[astondg]

Coming from nearly the opposite perspective, I had a MacBook and then a MacBook Pro (2009) before my current Surface Pro and I was sceptical about moving away from them. I really liked OSX, I thought the MacBook keyboard and trackpad were the best I'd used on any laptop (I know that's a personal thing) and I'd had very few issues with either of them (in fact I've passed them on to my parents and both are still going strong). But I had traded in my iPhone for a WP, Window 8 seemed nice and the portability of the Surface Pro really attracted me so I jumped across to try it out.

Now the SP3 has been announced and with the updates to OSX and iOS recently I'm wondering if I should move back BUT the biggest sticking point is that I feel like an MBP would be a big step backwards in a lot of ways. I rarely used my MacBooks on my lap so the Surface lap usability hasn't been an issue for me and instead I can't imagine sitting on the lounge chair checking email and reading new with a laptop, especially if I want to physically share the experience with someone else. I also take a LOT of notes with the pen in OneNote and I've started sketching & doodling again which is something I haven't done since University (my old notebooks are full of sketches). Being able to walk into a meeting and take pen notes on my Surface and then flick out the stand and keyboard and switch to more 'serious' work, or tidying up the notes and moving them to a Word document (for meeting minutes), etc. is very handy.

As stated by mikeakanice before, both the SP3 and MBP are great options, neither will be a disaster, and what ultimately works best for you will come down to how you use the device and what 'ecosystem' you are (or will be) bought into (i.e. Apple vs Microsoft).

 

[maflynn]

Now the SP3 has been announced and with the updates to OSX and iOS recently I'm wondering if I should move back

The biggest feature of OSX/iOS is Continuity. If you have an iPhone and a MBP, then I can see that being a draw. It does lock you in further into the Apple ecosystem, which some may think is a good thing and others don't.

I'm not seeing much on the iOS8 side that would cause me to get rid of my Nokia, but I'll have to wait and see until the iPhone 6 hits the streets. As of Yosemite - The UI looks ok, the search is a plus and as stated the Continuity which is a nice feature doesn't really impact me.

 

[RavenSword]

I know how you feel, man. My problem is I'm deciding between wether to save for a surface pro 3 or a retina MacBook Pro. I've only ever owned a windows PC (family computer) and have never used Mac outside of college where I used them in my audio and radio classes. So, I'm maybe a blank slate for either, however I do win a iPhone, iPad, and Apple TV.

 

[JamesPTao]

As I've stated before why not a Fujitsu q series. Most aren't familiar with it but truly a great tablet PC. Surface pro is great, but wacom digitizer, fingerprint scanner, convertible tablet options, and the screen completely removeable with over 10 hours battery life removed. One hell of a PC.
Look it up. It should be on the list.