Intel Core-M and the future of Surface

[Michael Alan Goff]

Okay, I have looked up the article where my information is from:



Intel's super-thin 'Core M' tablets will be cheaper than you think

Let's see if they produce a fan-less Surface Pro with the same or even more power as the current gen. It would certainly be awesome.

​Without a quote from an Intel guy, that just seems like speculation.

 

[Chregu]

​Without a quote from an Intel guy, that just seems like speculation.

Exactly what you are doing. Speculating. Throwing specs around and making assumptions.

Personally I don't know, but considering the past, this article from a reliable blog, the comments on this article, and just common sense, I go for the Engadget information.

Time will tell who's right of course.

 

[jpal12]

If the Surface Pro 4 used a Core M, it would be much slower than the Surface Pro 3. Even the i7 version would be lower than the i5 SP3 model.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Exactly what you are doing. Speculating. Throwing specs around and making assumptions.

Personally I don't know, but considering the past, this article from a reliable blog, the comments on this article, and just common sense, I go for the Engadget information.

Time will tell who's right of course.

Yes, time will tell.

​I'm watching this new processor with great interest.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

Fanless again? It's so frustrating I had to make an account just to talk about it. For a certain type of user the fanless Surface Pro would be a downgrade no matter what CPU generation it used.

To begin with the idea that Broadwell is going to bring us current gen performance in a fanless system is unreasonably optimistic. Maybe -- MAYBE -- you could hit similar performance targets instantaneously from a cold start (and that's being unreasonably generous with power optimization estimates). What's going to happen over a minute or so is that the fanless system will start to throttle significantly while the system with a fan will maintain its performance until the battery runs out.

For a consumption device bursts of performance followed by heavy throttling are acceptable. A device like an iPad performs CPU-heavy tasks infrequently and generally for short periods of time. When it does run CPU intensive tasks for an extended period it simply throttles as needed, significantly reducing the actual processing speed. Again this is a non-issue because very few people use these devices for serious work (because of the limited OS's).

A fanless system will certainly never be satisfactory for the type of user currently looking at an i7 SP3. Hypothetically let's say that 2+ generations down the line a fanless system can match the performance of the Haswell i5/i7 options over an extended period of time without throttling (and I think this is still a stretch). What that also means is that if you were simply willing to live with a fan (why do we hate fans?) you would see vastly improved performance over the current systems with the same battery life.

The above highlights the core issue: Fanless will always mean stepping back a couple generations in performance. No matter how power efficient your CPU is, it could run much, MUCH faster with an active cooling solution. An iPad would run significantly faster provided with active cooling and allowed to maintain higher clocks, but considering the light intended usage of the device this is actually undesirable (faster battery depletion). The SP's targeted usage is quite different from an iPad's.

I simply hope MS understands the device they've created well enough to avoid falling into this fanless/consumption device trap. If the market demands it then it makes more sense to split the line again and reintroduce the non-Pro Surface tablet as a fanless system (which can run proper desktop software this time) while maintaining the "Pro" line as the serious laptop replacement using actual cooling solutions.

There are two classes of devices being discussed here as if they fit together:

The theoretical device demonstrated in the video:
-A consumption tablet that runs ultra-light laptop parts and can do light laptop work.
The Surface Pro:
-A real laptop that happens to be in tablet form factor and can be used for serious work.

TL;DR Version: You go fanless, you drop back something like 3 CPU generations in sustained performance compared to a similar CPU with a fan. Not acceptable for the "Pro" device in the lineup. Reintroduce the Non-pro Surface using this chip and full Windows. Maybe replace the i3 option with this device?

 

[vlad0]

Hmm... so

Core-M would be a brand new category, and there will be NO successor to the Haswell-Y series CPUs ?

Core-M will be ~3x slower than the current Haswell-Y series ?

Core-M will get slower and slower as you use the machine because it doesn't have a fan ? In other words, it won't be able to run @ 4.5W for prolonged periods of time.

All of this doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess we will have to wait.. once anandtech gets their hands on a Asus 300 Chi we will know what the Core-M is capable of.

My take is that it will be just as fast the current Y series, with better GPU, and better thermal dynamics which gets rid of the fan. The current i3 performance is more than enough for me personally..

If its 3x slower that would bring it below Atom, which makes no sense because there is going to be a new Atom chip sometime next year..

 

[badMojo69]

From what Intel showed the docks will have fans that will cool the device and allow for faster performance. So it's a true desktop when needed, an ultra book when not docked for normal use and a tablet when you don't need the keyboard. All I see is WIN!

If someone wants more of a PC all the time and weight is not a factor then the SP3 form factor is killer. My god it's all good news. Just think of the new toys we'll have by 2015 year end. There will be something for everyone. And honestly the whole weight thing will be a thing of the past.

 

[vlad0]

For me the SP3 is good enough in terms weight/size already.. it can only get better..

And that's if Microsoft doesn't take the Core-M and get it clocked high enough to keep their "revolutionary fan".

Even if they keep it, broadwell would make way less use of it..maybe only for "high performance", kind of like the docking stating they showed.

Maybe instead of shipping the i3 haswell in August/September, then can get the broadwell version out instead..

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

For me the SP3 is good enough in terms weight/size already.. it can only get better..



Even if they keep it, broadwell would make way less use of it..maybe only for "high performance", kind of like the docking stating they showed.

Maybe instead of shipping the i3 haswell in August/September, then can get the broadwell version out instead..

The only thing the dock brings is active cooling, which is what the fan itself would bring. The dock doesn't really do anything else beyond that. I don't see why it wouldn't work with their special fan.

 

[Dave Drouin]

I'd like to see him actually use it. The tablets / 2in1s tend to sway/jiggle when you start poking at the screen with your finger(s), at least the ones I've tried. Would drive me nuts. That's what i like about the Surface, it doesn't jiggle!

 

[vlad0]

there are a few occasions in life where

jiggle!

is welcomed, 2in1s is certainly not one of them