Is the MS Office suite not free anymore like it was on the RT model?

[Coreldan]

I'm going to be just a little brutal (i.e. honest with my opinion), but if you've paid a premium to own a Surface Pro 3 (there's plenty of other cheaper laptops out there with touch screens), then you can most probably afford an Office 365 subscription. Yes, it locks you into effectively renting software, but there's a lot of sense in using that ownership model if you think about the cost of buying the software and the added cost of upgrading to the next version when that comes out. As mentioned before, you get a huge amount of online storage, and the ability for your copy of MS Office to follow you around (you can stream the software from the internet on any machine that doesn't already have Office installed - with a decent internet connection, you can be editing documents in Word in under 5 minutes).

You can have this for about the same cost as a cup of coffee a week, and there's a wide range of plans so you can get something that suits you, or you and the family.

Cloud based solutions like this are just plain freaking awesome.

Personally I'll go for the Officer 365 University which gives me the service for 2 devices for 4 years for like 80€, it's a good deal, but when the SP3 (even at lowest config) is already popping the budget in every dimension, it's not self explanatory to be able to afford that. Already with the keyboard not included, you pretty much bump the effective price of the device pretty damn close to 1000€ for just the lowest config.

It's sort of a bad argument, it's like saying "if you can afford the i3, you might as well go for i5 cos it's only 200€ more".

 

[Pete]

Well, I'm just saying that even the base SP3 is a premium device. If cost is a tight issue, then there are cheaper alternatives that do the same job (although doesn't look as cool).

Another way of looking at this is that removing a fixed product allows the user to choose their options - whether this be with an O365 plan, or another (OpenOffice, Google Docs, etc.).

 

[rdubmu]

Personally I'll go for the Officer 365 University which gives me the service for 2 devices for 4 years for like 80?, it's a good deal, but when the SP3 (even at lowest config) is already popping the budget in every dimension, it's not self explanatory to be able to afford that. Already with the keyboard not included, you pretty much bump the effective price of the device pretty damn close to 1000? for just the lowest config.

It's sort of a bad argument, it's like saying "if you can afford the i3, you might as well go for i5 cos it's only 200? more".

If you can't afford it don't buy it has always been my philosophy for reasons I can't always buy the latest tech.

Office is a separate product then windows, and has always been separate. Not sure why people think it would be different for the Surface Pro as the SP HAS ALWAYS RAN FULL WINDOWS 8, windows RT has always included a scaled down version of office.

Lastly you can always use officeonline as it is free, similar functionality to office RT. Or libre office or open office.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coreldan]

If you can't afford it don't buy it has always been my philosophy for reasons I can't always buy the latest tech.

Office is a separate product then windows, and has always been separate. Not sure why people think it would be different for the Surface Pro as the SP HAS ALWAYS RAN FULL WINDOWS 8, windows RT has always included a scaled down version of office.

Lastly you can always use officeonline as it is free, similar functionality to office RT. Or libre office or open office.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Office Web apps dont really come close to the functionality of the RT version of Office though. I'm starting my last year in university, Office web apps don't come even close to be able to format my stuff properly in the required fashion. Funny thing is that I typically write the text on my desktop using the web apps, but then when I need to format it, I whip out my 10,6" Surface RT in front of my huge gaming rig desktop setup and plug in an USB mouse to the Surface RT and use that to do the formatting, simply cos I have no real office on any other device at the moment

In that way it's probably good that the SP3 doesnt come with office, now I actually have to get one so I actually get one for my desktop too lol, so I can stop using a tiny device in front of my deskop PC

 

[Nerdy Woman]

Office Web apps dont really come close to the functionality of the RT version of Office though. I'm starting my last year in university, Office web apps don't come even close to be able to format my stuff properly in the required fashion. Funny thing is that I typically write the text on my desktop using the web apps, but then when I need to format it, I whip out my 10,6" Surface RT in front of my huge gaming rig desktop setup and plug in an USB mouse to the Surface RT and use that to do the formatting, simply cos I have no real office on any other device at the moment

In that way it's probably good that the SP3 doesnt come with office, now I actually have to get one so I actually get one for my desktop too lol, so I can stop using a tiny device in front of my deskop PC

Since you're a student, Coreldan, you are eligible for the full-on, deep-dive, all-the-whistles-and-bells, everything-but-the-kitchen-sink, whole-enchilada Office Suite at an extremely discounted price. Office 365 University costs just $80 for a FOUR-YEAR subscription, gives you that 1 TERABYTE of OneDrive storage, 60 international Skype minutes every month, and you can install it on your desktop PC + have an additional install available for that Surface Pro you want. Yup, they give you two installs. Go for it.

 

[Bobvfr]

Over the years I have tried Open Office, Libre Office and various other office suites, I think I remember one called Albany or something beginning with A on my Amstrad 1520 (An 80's PC that first came with 5 1/4 floppy disc's and no hard drive). Yes they work, and well, and as mentioned they are free, BUT.

And although I no longer run a business, it is a truism, if you want the best Office Suite then MS Office is the gold standard, even when it's out of date (I was still using 2003 up until a few months ago).

With my upgrade to the world of Windows 8 8.1 and WP having a family it really was a no brainer to opt for 365.


Bob

 

[Coreldan]

Since you're a student, Coreldan, you are eligible for the full-on, deep-dive, all-the-whistles-and-bells, everything-but-the-kitchen-sink, whole-enchilada Office Suite at an extremely discounted price. Office 365 University costs just $80 for a FOUR-YEAR subscription, gives you that 1 TERABYTE of OneDrive storage, 60 international Skype minutes every month, and you can install it on your desktop PC + have an additional install available for that Surface Pro you want. Yup, they give you two installs. Go for it.

Yeah, I'm aware, I mentioned about getting that soon few posts earlier. It's a great deal, but I was mostly just making the argument on how it's not exactly a nobrainer if one is on a budget, since the device plus keyboard already gets quite expensive even at the cheapest config.

 

[Nerdy Woman]

Yeah, I'm aware, I mentioned about getting that soon few posts earlier. It's a great deal, but I was mostly just making the argument on how it's not exactly a nobrainer if one is on a budget, since the device plus keyboard already gets quite expensive even at the cheapest config.

IKR. A car accident and a broken refrigerator blew my Surface plans into next year...

 

[anon(7901790)]

IKR. A car accident and a broken refrigerator blew my Surface plans into next year...

Yikes! That sucks! At least you're Ok. :excited:Just look at the bright side, you will be able to get a SP4 if there is one, or an SP3 cheaper.

Yeah, I'm aware, I mentioned about getting that soon few posts earlier. It's a great deal, but I was mostly just making the argument on how it's not exactly a nobrainer if one is on a budget, since the device plus keyboard already gets quite expensive even at the cheapest config.

Coreldan - That is one thing that I wish Microsoft would take a look at... its pricing scheme on its products. It seems they want to hold on to the Ballmer way of doing things. It earned them huge profits back in the '90s and early 2000's, but it is archaic in this day and age.

 

[RajeevT]

That is one thing that I wish Microsoft would take a look at... its pricing scheme on its products. It seems they want to hold on to the Ballmer way of doing things. It earned them huge profits back in the '90s and early 2000's, but it is archaic in this day and age.

Clearly they want to emulate Apple's strategy of targeting the premium segment and earning big profits thanks to fat margins, even if comparatively fewer devices are sold.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Clearly they want to emulate Apple's strategy of targeting the premium segment and earning big profits thanks to fat margins, even if comparatively fewer devices are sold.

That is what they are trying to do now. However, back "in the day", Microsoft was (and still is to a point) centered around Windows and Office. In both cases you had different levels of pricing which started with Windows XP, with the Home and Pro editions. Once Microsoft (Ballmer) saw how profitable that model was, it then transitioned Office to the same pricing model. It earned Microsoft billions (if not trillions) of dollars in revenue.

That pricing system (and the crappiness of Vista) is what allowed Apple to gain ground in the early 2000's. With a Mac, you got the OS, a basic image editor, a basic productivity suite, and virus protection. With Windows you just got the OS and most everything else was extra.

Ballmer even expanded that pricing scheme with Vista (Vista Starter Vista Home Basic, Vista Home Premium, Vista Business, Vista Ultimate, Vista Enterprise) which confused people and caused them to fork over more money than they really needed to. If you wanted to upgrade, then it still cost you a pretty penny to do so.

Apple on the other hand offers free or cheap upgrades to its MacOS. And even though MSFT wants to be like Apple, it is still using an archaic pricing system for its software.

Now, I know I may sound like an Apple supporter. I'm not. I love MSFT products and have never had many issues with them. But for MSFT to compete, it needs to dump its Ballmer legacy. Which, I hope, the new CEO can do.

 

[RajeevT]

[Lots about Windows pricing]

I must say I don't quite get your point. What does Windows pricing have to do with MS trying to emulate Apple in sticking to low volumes yet high margins with its hardware?

With a Mac, you got the OS, a basic image editor, a basic productivity suite, and virus protection. With Windows you just got the OS and most everything else was extra.

On one hand people like you clamour for more stuff to be included, and on the other hand every time MS adds something it has the EU and everyone else screaming "monopoly" and jumping on their backs, asking them to strip the extras and fining them millions. How nice to be the only one to attract that sort of scrutiny, when competitors like Apple and Google get away scot free with all sort of egregious bundling on their own platforms.

Apple on the other hand offers free or cheap upgrades to its MacOS.

Apple also abandons its OS versions far quicker, which is one reason enterprises have traditionally preferred Windows. And don't forget one reason Apple can afford to be generous with cheap or even free upgrades is the exceedingly high initial upfront hardware cost you pay (since the OS can't be purchased for installation on non-Apple hardware). Indeed if you average it out over the entire support lifecycle of both OSes (minus the hardware), Windows is likely to have much lower TCO than MacOS does. If MS similarly plans to offer cheap or free OS updates for its phones and tablets then for sure it wants to be like Apple more than your average Android device manufacturer (most of whom besides perhaps Samsung are either making very little profit or are in the red).

 

[anon(7901790)]

I must say I don't quite get your point. What does Windows pricing have to do with hardware prices? I'm saying MS is clearly trying to emulate Apple and stick to low volumes yet high margins with its hardware.

My point is that Microsoft is using the same confusing pricing scheme for its devices as it did for Windows and Office. Take a look at the different levels of pricing for the Surface line. Apple's pricing scheme for iPad, iPod, and iPhone are tiered but much more straight forward. The difference between an iPad Air 64GB and an iPad Air 32GB is the amount of storage. Everything else is the same. For the Surface, you have three different processors, two different levels of RAM, and three different levels of storage. Making the buying experience a little over whelming for the average user. Which then makes it more difficult for the salespersons to be able to articulate what the differences mean.

In a nutshell they need to incorporate the KISS (Keep It Simple Silly!) principle if they want to compete against Apple and Google. To do this they need to simplify its pricing scheme for ALL of its products. Regardless of its intended market.

 

[RajeevT]

So you're advocating that MS should reduce the hardware configurations and choices for the user in order to KISS?

I for one like the choices and hardly find it overwhelming or all that difficult to select what I want. Then again, I try not to be like all those who believe a device or feature is 'revolutionary' and the best thing since sliced bread just because the manufacturer says so.

If so many people are supposedly having a hard time figuring out which SP3 they want to buy due to the plethora of choices, I suppose they must be completely dumbstruck when it comes to buying a desktop. In both cases (buying a desktop or an SP3) I'd suggest that such people ask any friendly neighbourhood tech-savvy kids to help them figure out what will work best for their needs.

 

[rdubmu]

My point is that Microsoft is using the same confusing pricing scheme for its devices as it did for Windows and Office. Take a look at the different levels of pricing for the Surface line. Apple's pricing scheme for iPad, iPod, and iPhone are tiered but much more straight forward. The difference between an iPad Air 64GB and an iPad Air 32GB is the amount of storage. Everything else is the same. For the Surface, you have three different processors, two different levels of RAM, and three different levels of storage. Making the buying experience a little over whelming for the average user. Which then makes it more difficult for the salespersons to be able to articulate what the differences mean.

In a nutshell they need to incorporate the KISS (Keep It Simple Silly!) principle if they want to compete against Apple and Google. To do this they need to simplify its pricing scheme for ALL of its products. Regardless of its intended market.

What is confusing about the Surface line? I don't find anything confusing about the MS way of pricing things. They spell it out on the packaging.

 

[anon(7901790)]

What is confusing about the Surface line? I don't find anything confusing about the MS way of pricing things. They spell it out on the packaging.

That's because like me, your knowledge and experience is more than what the average person has. I personally don't find Microsoft's way of pricing confusing either, but I know a lot of people who do. THOSE are the people that Microsoft need to market to if they are going to compete. Like I said, "keep it simple..."

 

[Coreldan]

If you frequent forums like this, you are not the average consumer

 

[Nerdy Woman]

I don't think people who don't know enough to research before they buy things they don't understand (eg, computers, software) should be subjected to a "one-size-fits-all" model. Microsoft introduced Office Home & Student because they recognized there are users who don't need Access, Publisher, or Outlook. There's no reason those people would or should pay $400 for the full suite.

Now, the options are even better:

1. Office Online for those who just need occasional use of Office apps (a much better option than Works)
2. Office Home & Student for those who need Word, Excel and PowerPoint with all the whistles and bells.
3. Office 2013 for those who want all the apps with a perpetual license
4. Office 365 Home for those who always want the latest and greatest for multiple devices or who don't want to shell out the cost of 5 perpetual licenses.
5. Office 365 Business for those who want the latest and greatest, zero IT maintenance costs, and low cost deployment for new hires.

It might seem confusing, but if I were an average consumer buying software anywhere but Walmart, the sales reps can probably explain the differences to me.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

On one hand people like you clamour for more stuff to be included, and on the other hand every time MS adds something it has the EU and everyone else screaming "monopoly" and jumping on their backs, asking them to strip the extras and fining them millions. How nice to be the only one to attract that sort of scrutiny, when competitors like Apple and Google get away scot free with all sort of egregious bundling on their own platforms.

If you don't understand the difference, then I suggest studying a little history regarding Microsoft's monopoly and predatory practices that led to those legal decisions. There were legitimate issues.

 

[RajeevT]

If you don't understand the difference, then I suggest studying a little history regarding Microsoft's monopoly and predatory practices that led to those legal decisions. There were legitimate issues.

If they were then the practices their competitors were and are indulging in are equally legitimate issues (or even worse) worth equal amounts of censure and fines. Either they should all be treated equally or the authorities involved should drop all pretence of impartiality.