11-17-2015 08:48 PM
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  1. chattoe's Avatar
    Hi, so I'm looking at replacing my iPad and MacBook Air for a surface pro 4.

    I generally use my iPad for social networking, surfing the web and checking email. The MacBook is used for office tasks, photo editing and converting my ripped blue ray disks to be put on my nas drive. I also do a few other bits and bobs on the Mac too.

    The iPad is what I use mostly though and it pretty much glued to me when at home.

    I've been watching videos and reading reviews on both the pro 4 and mostly pro 3 (as the pro 4 isn't out just yet) so I've been doing my research.

    The general size as a tablet has me a little worried with the surface but I'm sure I'd get used to carrying it around as a tablet.

    The touch cover keyboard is also of concern as I use the Mac on my lap mostly and I'm concerned that the keyboard would be rocking all over the place while typing on my lap.

    Generally I thing it makes sense to merge 2 devices into one and what with what MS have been doing I think it's finally time to move back to the Windows family, I have an Xbox and am also looking at ditching my iPhone for a lumia too but first on the list would be the laptop/tablet that needs sorting first.

    Any users out there that have done what I'm thinking of doing or general thoughts or mini reviews would be generally appreciated.

    Thanks
    Leonel Funes likes this.
    10-18-2015 03:04 AM
  2. EMINENT 1's Avatar
    Surface user since the first SP1. Never looked back. The ultimate device for me is a tablet that can replace a heavy, clunky, not always needed keyboard, laptop.

    I don't type on my lap. I don't like to and don't need to. You might want to look at Surface Book if you need something more for typing on your lap.
    Leonel Funes and Idelgado782 like this.
    10-18-2015 03:17 AM
  3. Christopher_He's Avatar
    You might want to look at Surface Book if you need something more for typing on your lap.
    Not for his usecase. He wants tablet first experience and surface pro 4 is the right choice for that. Surface book has only ~3 hours of batterylife in tablet mode.

    I think you should wait till reviews for the device arrive and check what they say about the new type cover. It looks way better than previous versions. Or, if you have a Microsoft store near you, you can go and check it out.
    I own a surface pro 2 and i had to get used to use it on my lap. But after a while it works quiet well even with the second generation and fixed kickstand positions. So I guess it should be not that much of a concern with the pro 3/4.
    10-18-2015 03:30 AM
  4. Talldog's Avatar
    I'm a Surface owner since the first generation, and now have an SP3 with a 4 on pre-order. The Surface is definitely not the most lap-friendly device out there with the keyboard attached, but you do get accustomed to it. The new stiffer keyboard will help that because of the reduced flexibility in your lap. I've checked the keyboard out at the store, and I can't wait to get it.

    Like you, I'm a tablet first guy, and my SP3 is glued to me at home. I also owned the first 3 generations of the iPad, and I was very fond of them. However, there's nothing like having one device that can do everything well. No question that the size and weight will seem odd at first, but you'll get used to that quickly. You should go to the nearest Microsoft store and check them out. They'll be happy to let you play around with it for a while.
    10-18-2015 07:57 AM
  5. chattoe's Avatar
    I wish there was a MS store here in the UK, not sure why there isn't to be honest.

    I just popped into a local department store where there was a pro 3. Had a good play and a chat with a MS trained staff member.

    I'm very impressed and think it will replace the iPad well.

    I love that kick stand!

    I would imagine that the tablet mode within Windows 10 will improve over time with constant updates.

    It all rides on the keyboard, the pro 3 version didn't feel too bad but know where near what I want.

    The track pad is way too small but we know that has increased in size so that's a plus.

    The pro 4 isn't out here in the UK until the 12th November so a good 2 weeks or so after the US which gives it time for all you guys in the US to do some YouTube videos and reviews on it all while I wait until the 12th.
    Last edited by chattoe; 10-18-2015 at 08:34 AM.
    10-18-2015 07:57 AM
  6. Carl Yearwood's Avatar
    I replaced my Macbook air and ipad with the surface pro 3. When it used windows 8.1 I was definitely disappointed, but, with windows 10 the surface is finally good at both worlds. The final problem is that windows does not have as good apps as IOS. Even aps like VLC is better on IOS than the windows version. You can however use the desktop VLC.
    10-18-2015 10:26 PM
  7. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    The Apple community is very special in nature - many users would not go back to Windows once they have used the Mac, because they think Apple is the best.

    You and I are some of the exceptions. Had been using iPad from its 1st gen to iPad mini2/iPad Air + MacbookAir + iMac, until Surface Pro came out in 2012.

    Have sold all my Apple devices to my friends at very cheap prices. I feel very good now. :)
    ttsoldier and TechAbstract like this.
    10-18-2015 10:43 PM
  8. ParoleGA's Avatar
    I have a 15" Retina MBP, and an iPad Air. I just gave my original Surface Pro (first gen) to a friend at work, and own an SP3. While my Surfaces have replaced my MBP almost 100%, from the beginning, the light interface and weight of the iPad Air is still better for consuming information; web surfing, Netflix, etc., in my opinion. As a touch first interface, I still find iOS to be better without a trackpad/mouse and keyboard. When I actually need to do something, it's the Surface. I have a Surface Book on order, but in all honesty, I still don't expect it will replace my iPad. I have no plans to buy a silly iPad Pro, because there is nothing Pro about iOS, but it is a nice touch interface that Windows 8 couldn't replace, and Windows 10 went further from. Again, these are just my opinions.
    10-19-2015 07:34 AM
  9. Qtweeder's Avatar
    keep the air & get a surface pro 3/4 - as much as i like MS products and have a lot of them - you still cant beat the ipad imho for ease of use and pickup for some things.

    i use sp3 and ipad air. perfect combo - i did try and let the sp3 replace the ipad, but it couldn't so i got real, not idealistic
    10-19-2015 08:20 AM
  10. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    If you are big on lap functionality, a Surface Pro won't be your best option. The kickstand is tough to balance on a non-level plane like one's legs.

    Should you want something better-suited for lap use, look into the competing devices. They often involve something like the Surface Book--starts as a laptop, then gaining tablet functionality. That would be like the Dell XPS and Lenovo Yoga lines.
    10-19-2015 08:49 AM
  11. realwarder's Avatar
    If you are big on lap functionality, a Surface Pro won't be your best option. The kickstand is tough to balance on a non-level plane like one's legs.

    Should you want something better-suited for lap use, look into the competing devices. They often involve something like the Surface Book--starts as a laptop, then gaining tablet functionality. That would be like the Dell XPS and Lenovo Yoga lines.
    That was my thought too. There are a lot more devices than just the Surface line. Others may be a better balance. (But I'm not an expert so can't make a good suggestion). In the Surface line the Surface Pro 4 is likely best. Get the newer one for the Windows Hello functionality and updated CPU etc.
    10-19-2015 10:31 AM
  12. Leonel Funes's Avatar
    The Apple community is very special in nature - many users would not go back to Windows once they have used the Mac, because they think Apple is the best.

    You and I are some of the exceptions. Had been using iPad from its 1st gen to iPad mini2/iPad Air + MacbookAir + iMac, until Surface Pro came out in 2012.

    Have sold all my Apple devices to my friends at very cheap prices. I feel very good now. :)
    A quick English lesson...
    COURAGE
    cour∑age
    [ˈkərij] (n) - Read quoted post.
    Tsang Fai likes this.
    10-19-2015 12:38 PM
  13. Leonel Funes's Avatar
    I have had friends that lived in Apple's ecosystem for years, just like I have done with Microsoft. Lately (especially around the second half of this year), more and more of them are seriously considering either grabbing either Surface device and/or 950/950XL. What's been keeping them back for so long is migrating accounts and info or Snapchat. I think they finally understand that migrating info is pretty simple if done right, and Snapchat is becoming a bore for them...

    I say make the jump. Haven't seen anyone complain at all
    10-19-2015 12:45 PM
  14. tennisfan#AC's Avatar
    I'm a Surface owner since the first generation, and now have an SP3 with a 4 on pre-order. The Surface is definitely not the most lap-friendly device out there with the keyboard attached, but you do get accustomed to it. The new stiffer keyboard will help that because of the reduced flexibility in your lap. I've checked the keyboard out at the store, and I can't wait to get it.

    Like you, I'm a tablet first guy, and my SP3 is glued to me at home. I also owned the first 3 generations of the iPad, and I was very fond of them. However, there's nothing like having one device that can do everything well. No question that the size and weight will seem odd at first, but you'll get used to that quickly. You should go to the nearest Microsoft store and check them out. They'll be happy to let you play around with it for a while.
    Talldog, you saved me a lot of typing because, like you, I own an iPad (first 2 generations) and I was fond of them. But I longed for a device to do everything. I hesitated getting a Surface Pro 3 because I just was not a fan of the type cover. However, I was so wrong because you do get used to after awhile. I only use my iPad for one app that is currently not available but even that app has a Windows beta and when it becomes available my iPad will be permanently retired.
    10-19-2015 03:18 PM
  15. Rooks308's Avatar
    I've never used a Surface Pro before, is tablet use in Windows 10 at all like using an iOS or Android tablet? What I mean by that is using an iOS or Android tablet surfing the web with your hands is simple, convenient and fast. Is it like this with a surface pro? Honest answers please, no bias if possible. I find both I.E. (when I was running 8.1) and Edge in the technical preview to be very clunky and slow compared to Chrome and Safari on my other devices and I really am interested in an SP4 but wonder about normal tablet web browsing usage.
    10-19-2015 08:43 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I've never used a Surface Pro before, is tablet use in Windows 10 at all like using an iOS or Android tablet? What I mean by that is using an iOS or Android tablet surfing the web with your hands is simple, convenient and fast. Is it like this with a surface pro? Honest answers please, no bias if possible. I find both I.E. (when I was running 8.1) and Edge in the technical preview to be very clunky and slow compared to Chrome and Safari on my other devices and I really am interested in an SP4 but wonder about normal tablet web browsing usage.
    There is no WordFlow keyboard for Windows 10 on tablets. Nor are there any 3rd party keyboards like SwiftKey or Swype.
    10-19-2015 08:49 PM
  17. OwenDL's Avatar
    You don't need to worry about the Typecover moving around if you're typing on your lap or anything. It's solid enough to where it holds its form in just about any position. Don't let something like that stop you from getting a superior product!
    10-19-2015 09:01 PM
  18. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    That was my thought too. There are a lot more devices than just the Surface line. Others may be a better balance. (But I'm not an expert so can't make a good suggestion). In the Surface line the Surface Pro 4 is likely best. Get the newer one for the Windows Hello functionality and updated CPU etc.
    The CPU thing's a very simple lookup. You'll see a lot of identical hardware in similarly priced devices. It also is a lot about brand preference and what you can stomach. My mom got a Yoga 3, but I have a hard time tolerating Lenovo after the malware scandal. I won't ever buy HP after the one laptop I had, because their product quality and customer service were the sorriest thing I ever experienced. Lucky for me, I don't need a mobile PC and build my own desktops, so those negative experiences aren't hurting me.

    I'll also say that I don't know how I feel on the SP4, compared to the SP3. Windows Hello does NOTHING for me. I don't care about its functionality in general. To me, if I wanted it, I'd but the fingerprint sensor keyboard. I say that because for most people, the SP3 will be much cheaper as stock is cleared out and the secondhand market gets flooded, and it'll functionally be more than enough for the general public. Me, I'd try to snag a cheap SP3 and that fingerprint Type Cover, over throwing extra money at horsepower I won't touch. The only thing that might give me pause is I'd like the colored Surface Pen, probably. IDK if I'd get it or not though. I'm curious as to how they'll handle that--if you buy a SP4, can you pick your pen, or do you have to buy a second pen because the thing comes with a silver one every time, making it a waste of money and a pen for consumers who want the colored options? Also, can the new pens and their full sensitivity work on the SP3?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    10-19-2015 11:18 PM
  19. realwarder's Avatar
    The CPU thing's a very simple lookup. You'll see a lot of identical hardware in similarly priced devices. It also is a lot about brand preference and what you can stomach. My mom got a Yoga 3, but I have a hard time tolerating Lenovo after the malware scandal. I won't ever buy HP after the one laptop I had, because their product quality and customer service were the sorriest thing I ever experienced. Lucky for me, I don't need a mobile PC and build my own desktops, so those negative experiences aren't hurting me.

    I'll also say that I don't know how I feel on the SP4, compared to the SP3. Windows Hello does NOTHING for me. I don't care about its functionality in general. To me, if I wanted it, I'd but the fingerprint sensor keyboard. I say that because for most people, the SP3 will be much cheaper as stock is cleared out and the secondhand market gets flooded, and it'll functionally be more than enough for the general public. Me, I'd try to snag a cheap SP3 and that fingerprint Type Cover, over throwing extra money at horsepower I won't touch. The only thing that might give me pause is I'd like the colored Surface Pen, probably. IDK if I'd get it or not though. I'm curious as to how they'll handle that--if you buy a SP4, can you pick your pen, or do you have to buy a second pen because the thing comes with a silver one every time, making it a waste of money and a pen for consumers who want the colored options? Also, can the new pens and their full sensitivity work on the SP3?
    Things may do NOTHING for you, but for others (like OP) they could be the best thing since sliced bread.

    For me, buying old hardware is a silly choice. If you're buying a Surface, buy the latest. Lots of things are better. Longer battery. Fast CPU options. Better graphics. Smaller. Lighter. Better pens. The list goes on.
    10-20-2015 12:04 PM
  20. ParoleGA's Avatar
    Things may do NOTHING for you, but for others (like OP) they could be the best thing since sliced bread.

    For me, buying old hardware is a silly choice. If you're buying a Surface, buy the latest. Lots of things are better. Longer battery. Fast CPU options. Better graphics. Smaller. Lighter. Better pens. The list goes on.
    I agree here, I'm not a fan of buying old tech. It is already outdated when you buy it, and will be obsolete sooner, for the most part. You may up saving some money in the short term, but having to purchase more often to keep running current software, at an acceptable level. You might save some money, but unless it is a smoking deal on fairly recent hardware, it may not be worth it.
    10-20-2015 12:26 PM
  21. chattoe's Avatar
    The surface 3 is not an option, if I'm upgrading my hardware I want the latest for that amount of money. It's works out I'd save £150 if I bought the equivalent in the pro 3 options.

    Can any one tell me that have had hands on with the pro 4 what the type cover is like? Especially compared to a MacBook Pro keyboard and track pad if possible
    10-20-2015 02:09 PM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    Things may do NOTHING for you, but for others (like OP) they could be the best thing since sliced bread.

    For me, buying old hardware is a silly choice. If you're buying a Surface, buy the latest. Lots of things are better. Longer battery. Fast CPU options. Better graphics. Smaller. Lighter. Better pens. The list goes on.
    The new Surface Pro isn't smaller. It's BARELY lighter (14 grams). The graphics and CPU improvements are likely negligible for the vast majority of users. You aren't going to perceive the improved browser and Office load times. The battery life isn't necessarily better (we'll see how testing goes), and if it's better, it's because of the added size (more battery space), in part. The new pen SHOULD work on the SP3, if you want the added precision, and they made a Windows Hello-functional keyboard for the SP3, with a fingerprint reader.

    The whole point of my first post is that you said the SP4 is "likely the best," but that's not really fair. It's the most-powerful, but when you consider added cost, it's likely a lot less-improved.
    10-20-2015 04:18 PM
  23. cgavula's Avatar
    Getting past the platform fanboy hype, the Surface Pro 3 and 4 are generally good choices and work well in most cases, although there are some lapability concerns that other people have already mentioned and the general state of tablet apps is better in the Apple ecosystem than the Windows ecosystem.

    That said, I generally have found Windows 10 to be less stable on my SP3 than Windows 8.1 was and some apps don't work correctly (I'm talking about you - Magic Puzzle) so I ended up rolling it back to Windows 8.1.

    If you use Kindle Reader on your iPad, you will be disappointed with it on the Surface. The Windows version isn't very good and still makes use of ClearType so it looks wretched if you turn the tablet into Portrait mode compared to an iPad (and the home button placement makes using the device in portrait mode for reading a little challenging at times.)

    Lastly, if you like/use the long-press extended keystrokes to type extended or foreign characters on your Mac or iPad, Windows doesn't really implement that at all, although there is limited support for it in the soft keyboard, but it's not nearly as extensive as what's on the Mac.

    Having the pen is great of taking notes, but some folks have had reliability problems under Windows 10 using One Note, so approach that with caution and save frequently.

    You can make up for some of the app deficit using regular desktop apps and web apps, but it isn't perfect and there are actually a few things (including things I just mentioned) that are different/better on your current setup. Also note - if you are invested in iTunes, the Windows version is NOT as good and performs sluggishly even on good Windows PCs. This is Apple's fault for writing a poorly optimized Windows app, but if you use iTunes, it's something to keep in mind.

    You asked about the type cover and the track pad - the type cover flexes too much for me. I've taken to using a BT keyboard with it instead. Also makes it easier to lap - I put the Surface on a tv tray and put the BT keyboard in my lap. If you are used to trackpads, you will definitely not like Windows trackpads. They simply aren't as good. I've never had a Windows laptop trackpad that I liked, including the SP3. Most people I know will use a Mac laptop as is, but most Windows users insist on having a mouse. Why? The trackpads are usually touchy and sensitive, no matter how you adjust the settings. I'd love it if someone licensed the Apple trackpad to put in a high-end Windows laptop - now that would be something!

    All that said, I'd be inclined to wait for the wider range of SP4 and SB reviews to come out, and I might even wait for the actual release of the iPad Pro to get all the reviews on these new products and get a chance to try them out to see what is the best fit for you. The SPs are really good devices, but they aren't perfect - nothing is - and they have a few unique challenges as I've mentioned (and others have mentioned) here.

    Bottom line for me? The SP did NOT eliminate my need for the iPad or make me get rid of my Macbook, because of it's poor ereader support, poor tablet apps, and limited extended keyboard support, but I do use it a lot for Windows-specific apps and there are a few things that do run better on it so I ended up with an even wider mix of devices rather than being able to eliminate devices!

    Good luck with your decision!
    10-21-2015 07:58 PM
  24. chattoe's Avatar
    So, after reading back on this thread I decided yesterday to go ahead and order the pro 4. According to the terms and conditions I have 90 days to return it for a full refund. So I have nothing to loose by giving it a go.

    I pick it up in a few hours (a bit excited )
    11-15-2015 05:07 AM
  25. Steve Adams's Avatar
    The Apple community is very special in nature - many users would not go back to Windows once they have used the Mac, because they think Apple is the best.

    You and I are some of the exceptions. Had been using iPad from its 1st gen to iPad mini2/iPad Air + MacbookAir + iMac, until Surface Pro came out in 2012.

    Have sold all my Apple devices to my friends at very cheap prices. I feel very good now. :)
    Yeah, whats up with apple supposedly keeping it's value. I had a 27" cinema monitor connected to an upgraged mini, MacBook pro, ipad 2 iphones and lost my shirt on all of it.
    11-15-2015 08:13 AM
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