So much better with yesterday's update

[ttsoldier]

Technically not true ....
For instance the 11/2 Firmware update contained...
November 2015 updates
The following update will be listed as “System Firmware Update – 11/2/2015” when you view your update history.

Note
When Surface updates are provided via the Windows Update service, they are delivered in stages to Surface customers. As a result, not every Surface will receive the update at the same time, but the update will be delivered to all devices. If you have not received the update then please manually check Windows Update later.
HD Graphics 520 driver update (v20.19.15.4308) addresses some display issues, including some scenarios that result in screen flickering.
Display audio driver update (v8.20.0.659) supports compatibility with the updated graphics driver.
Surface Embedded Controller Firmware update (v103.855.257.0) improves system stability.
Surface Pen Settings driver update (v10.0.302.0) adds support for future functionality on Windows 10.

A future ISO would roll these into the ISO as it has both the .wim and the drivers rolled into it to support the surface 4 and a plethora of other makes.

You seem to be confused when it comes to the difference between a driver and a firmware.

 

[Devhux]

You seem to be confused when it comes to the difference between a driver and a firmware.

Actually, blame Microsoft for that one! They called it a firmware update when in fact it's really a driver update. That's why if you factory reset or install Threshold 2 via Media Creation Tool, it re-downloads the "firmware" files from 11/02 again.

 

[ncxcstud]

I got nervous when after the big update my SP4 started freezing... checked the battery controller driver - that updated to the new update that causes my computer to lockup and freeze - rolled it back to the old one - no more freezing problems...

A part from that - everything is working great! Still not sure why the 'new' driver for the battery controller causes my SP4 to freeze...

 

[boltman2013]

I got nervous when after the big update my SP4 started freezing... checked the battery controller driver - that updated to the new update that causes my computer to lockup and freeze - rolled it back to the old one - no more freezing problems...

A part from that - everything is working great! Still not sure why the 'new' driver for the battery controller causes my SP4 to freeze...

Its best to let SP4 update naturally..there is a reason the update packages that get approved are approved. People have to think of devices like the SP4 as very customized hardware/software wise to work as a cohesive unit, you start mucking with individual drivers you are in for a world of hurt.

This is not a desktop PC made up of individual parts..all SP4's are identical and Microsoft expect ceratin hardware and software combos as they approve software and hardware updates to the SP4.

I can guarantee most of the issues in the SP4 are USER ERROR so if you are having issues blame yourself

 

[TheAsbo]

Its best to let SP4 update naturally..there is a reason the update packages that get approved are approved. People have to think of devices like the SP4 as very customized hardware/software wise to work as a cohesive unit, you start mucking with individual drivers you are in for a world of hurt.

This is not a desktop PC made up of individual parts..all SP4's are identical and Microsoft expect ceratin hardware and software combos as they approve software and hardware updates to the SP4.

I can guarantee most of the issues in the SP4 are USER ERROR so if you are having issues blame yourself

A lot of Surface owners aren't tech savvy. They know how to use their own software, but aren't willing to muck about with drivers and such.

 

[ncxcstud]

Its best to let SP4 update naturally..there is a reason the update packages that get approved are approved. People have to think of devices like the SP4 as very customized hardware/software wise to work as a cohesive unit, you start mucking with individual drivers you are in for a world of hurt.

This is not a desktop PC made up of individual parts..all SP4's are identical and Microsoft expect ceratin hardware and software combos as they approve software and hardware updates to the SP4.

I can guarantee most of the issues in the SP4 are USER ERROR so if you are having issues blame yourself

I did let the SP4 update on its own - it updated the battery driver - it started freezing. I rolled it back - it doesn't freeze anymore.

 

[GatsbyGlen]

A lot of Surface owners aren't tech savvy. They know how to use their own software, but aren't willing to muck about with drivers and such.

I agree. Many of the users buy the device expecting it to work out of the box, which I think it has failed to do for many. They shouldn't need to worry about screwing around with drivers, tweak settings for max battery life, disable CS to update power schemes, etc. They are told to use Edge, which then crashes for them. Or it doesn't come out of hibernate, or the screen flickers, etc. This isn't USER ERROR. Hardcore Window users will work around it, but most people I know wouldn't deal with it. They will just go buy a MAC because it will work out of the box for them. Can't say that I blame them.

 

[boltman2013]

I agree. Many of the users buy the device expecting it to work out of the box, which I think it has failed to do for many. They shouldn't need to worry about screwing around with drivers, tweak settings for max battery life, disable CS to update power schemes, etc. They are told to use Edge, which then crashes for them. Or it doesn't come out of hibernate, or the screen flickers, etc. This isn't USER ERROR. Hardcore Window users will work around it, but most people I know wouldn't deal with it. They will just go buy a MAC because it will work out of the box for them. Can't say that I blame them.

It is USER ERROR you would not be messing with tweaking the settings as a normal user and would certainly not be complaining about battery life because you would just plug it in anyhow, the battery life got fixed by the 1115 update mostly anyhow if people were patient.

Basically if you have little knowledge and don't want to tinker , avoid these forums and just use the device as is out of the box. Don't listen to the complainers because something is not quite right or a setting is missing most of the complaints are entirely overblown here.

 

[brianbrain]

It is USER ERROR you would not be messing with tweaking the settings as a normal user and would certainly not be complaining about battery life because you would just plug it in anyhow, the battery life got fixed by the 1115 update mostly anyhow if people were patient.

Basically if you have little knowledge and don't want to tinker , avoid these forums and just use the device as is out of the box. Don't listen to the complainers because something is not quite right or a setting is missing most of the complaints are entirely overblown here.

Boltman, you're missing the point that is trying to be made. I agree that if someone starts messing with the registry and bad things happen, it's on them. I doubt the user will debate that fact either.

However, the system should work right out of the box. Sure, people are welcome to return it and move on, but this is feedback that Microsoft needs to receive. Apple products (yes, I said the A word..), despite their flaws, work out of the box generally as anticipated. This is what the average consumer expects of a product in this price bracket these days, and if Microsoft doesn't get it right, their customers will go elsewhere.

I'm saying this as someone who really wants to see the Surface thrive. Let's all hope Microsoft continues to clean things up quickly - TH2 appears to have been a very positive step forward.

 

[boltman2013]

Boltman, you're missing the point that is trying to be made. I agree that if someone starts messing with the registry and bad things happen, it's on them. I doubt the user will debate that fact either.

However, the system should work right out of the box. Sure, people are welcome to return it and move on, but this is feedback that Microsoft needs to receive. Apple products (yes, I said the A word..), despite their flaws, work out of the box generally as anticipated. This is what the average consumer expects of a product in this price bracket these days, and if Microsoft doesn't get it right, their customers will go elsewhere.

I'm saying this as someone who really wants to see the Surface thrive. Let's all hope Microsoft continues to clean things up quickly - TH2 appears to have been a very positive step forward.

"despite their flaws, work out of the box generally as anticipated."

Disagree...

iPhone 6s complaints continue as phones randomly shut down | Pocketnow

Apple's broken promise: why doesn't iCloud 'just work'? | The Verge

Apple customers report devices crashing on iOS 9 update

9 of the biggest complaints about the Apple Watch so far

Could post another hundred easily.

 

[brianbrain]

"despite their flaws, work out of the box generally as anticipated."

Disagree...

iPhone 6s complaints continue as phones randomly shut down | Pocketnow

Apple's broken promise: why doesn't iCloud 'just work'? | The Verge

Apple customers report devices crashing on iOS 9 update

9 of the biggest complaints about the Apple Watch so far

Could post another hundred easily.

..a nice distraction from the discussion, I'll grant you that, but you're failing to make a point or form a coherent argument.

My last post still stands.

 

[dkp23]

It is USER ERROR you would not be messing with tweaking the settings as a normal user and would certainly not be complaining about battery life because you would just plug it in anyhow, the battery life got fixed by the 1115 update mostly anyhow if people were patient.

Basically if you have little knowledge and don't want to tinker , avoid these forums and just use the device as is out of the box. Don't listen to the complainers because something is not quite right or a setting is missing most of the complaints are entirely overblown here.

It's users error battery drains while sleep mode and even when you shut off the device and he driver crashing?

Ok

 

[boltman2013]

It's users error battery drains while sleep mode and even when you shut off the device and he driver crashing?

Ok

No that is the way it is with a new device.... face it average users should wait instead of being on the "cutting edge" like the rest of us. Much of the rest other than teething pains is the user error.

 

[dafuse]

For about a week before the November update, my bugs had started stabilizing. The display driver crash, the Edge kicking off the fan, the touch display non-responsiveness. Then, since the update, they have all come back. I've had to reboot countless times, my display driver crashed 4 times, My fan randomly kicks off (in my briefcase! my battery lost 50% before I noticed), and my touch became unresponsive again, 2 times, requiring reboots. And to make it more fun, I've had a new bug: the touch input panel refused to show up, no matter what I did. I had to reboot for that too.

This is simply the worst piece of tech I've ever bought. Apart from some simply bad design (for example, the input panel: shows up randomly, not always in pen mode, it sometimes disappears after one character, and I can't find *any* documentation on how to use editing gestures), it has these persistent, terrible bugs. The handwriting recognition and handwriting keyboard (input panel) are poor (doesn't even come close to my Samsung Galaxy Note 5). Voice recognition is klunky and doesn't work particularly well. I can go on and on. It simply doesn't come close to Android for tablet usability.

But now I'm stuck with it. I have gone past my 2 week return window, with the silly optimism that these issues would get worked out. Instead, the Nov update gave me a step backwards. I am now the proud owner of a $1500 doorstop. I can't integrate this into my workflow, because I can't trust it, and I fight it constantly.

My MAC Book pro (2012) crashed a total of 2 times in 3 years. Things worked well, and I didn't waste so much time trying to fix the tech. I will go back to that, and my Note 10.1 tablet, and have things work well. I guess that the fact that I expect things to work means that I am not a "cutting edge" techie. My bachelors degrees in electrical engineering and computer science, my job as an lead engineer in a very high tech networking firm, and my continuous purchase of gadgets don't qualify me. The fact that I am not willing to accept poor design and products means that I'm old fashioned, I guess.

Rant over. Thanks for your patience. Now I'm gonna go have a drink.

 

[snakebitten]

Nice rant!

I stated before on the forum that in my job, I am the one looked to for purchasing advice, all things technology. I have 3 possible recommendations:
1. Buy
2. Wait
3. Wouldn't if I were you

And it's pretty common for me to give different recommendations to different people for the same product.
Currently, for the SP4, I have a "wait" for most folks. (Colleagues, friends, family)
But I do have a Buy for the folks that have a decent threshold for early adopter pain and low patience for waiting the bugs out. Some of us are just wired to be less wounded by the hiccups.

I don't like to insult the average user by just implying they aren't smart enough or qualified. Because I don't think that is usually the obstacle. Instead, for most folks I fear the early issues will steal the joy of ownership and\or erode their confidence. (Which you clearly remarked as applying to you)

The SP4 is going to be yet another awesome product in the Surface Lineage. But you wouldn't know that this early in the release.
And I usually hesitate to make my point at the expense of Apple, because I give them all due credit for us even having these amazing "mobile" products that exist today. But seriously, the forums are filled with the rants from those folks too. Especially every time the next release comes.

So that part of your rant did cause a bit of an eye roll, but with a friendly smile. Enjoy that drink though.