Is the I7 worth it?

[krabby]

Yeah, as I said above there is no question, the I7 will throttle sooner but both will get there quickly and the I7 is producing significantly better frame rates than the I5 when throttled. I do have to agree with what one fellow said about getting better drivers. It appears at the moment these are a WIP by any standard and I would expect things to get better. For me on longer trips I will insure my gaming lappie and put it in my checked baggage, shorter trips I'll just bring the SP4 and skip the gaming. I would love to have a Surface that I could do it all on but I want a little more than the I7 has to give. Maybe next year...

 

[tboy2000]

I have had the M3 version for some days now and love it. Am surprised how fast and smooth it is. I don't do gaming with installed exe games because I just stream form my Xbox direct to my SP4 while in bed ay night (instead of sleeping lol) and it works great! I really love that it is fanless. I would recommend the m3. I think it's fast enough for the average user. The only place where i5 or i7 would be faster is cpu demanding services like encoding a hd video etc. There it will be some seconds faster but if you have patience, the m3 can do it also. We are just taking about seconds. Hey, we managed with 3G mobile speeds for years even though 4G is a couple seconds faster.

 

[boltman2013]

Boltman has a problem since the SP4 came out and he doesn't even realize that he's losing all credibility on most technical matters by pushing this M3 only option. There's a post a bit more down where he implies the hinge has a defect because is the i5, the m3 would have been perfect. Not to mention the many times he said the M3 has no issues (unlike the i5) but then listed on different threads fixes for the battery drain in sleep (turning off hibernate and sleep completly on the m3) among other things. Maybe he blames the i5 and i7 variants for the lack of decent memory and SSD in the M3 version and he's still bitter about it after two months?
Anyway, back on topic, I agree with the previous posters, the I7, even throttling down, would win against the i5 and especially the m3 variants. If intensinve gaming is one of the reasons to go with the SP4 then i7 was the way to go. Just know the limits of the tablet form factor and adjust the graphics settings accordingly.

I have stated hardly anyone needs 8GB with today's software and needs. I don't see 4GB as a limitation on the SP..I'm not bitter. Offering an expert opinion on the matter to help others make the correct choice.

My other premise is that mass produced (i5) is not as good as small batches(m3/i7)

A tablet should not have a fan...that is what this comes down to.

It isn't me who is missing the point. I understood your opinion the first time I read it, I agree with some of your thoughts and disagree with others. My point was you have no idea what people need or want and presuming to think so is a mistake. Other people have their own desires and needs along with opinions based on them. You have just put forth your subjective opinion of what you think this product should be and where it should go. That people should be as you said ecstatic to have the M3 and are drunken fools to buy something else and on and on. All opinion.

You end specifically telling me I don't want to admit I bought the wrong product and wont admit I wasted my money? Really? You have no idea what my needs are but let me help you out. I go often to places where there is no cloud and 128 gigs of storage combined with the largest possible SD card is below my minimum need for storage. This alone makes the M3 a non starter. Then you have the fact that I don't want a larger form factor device because the SP4, 12.2 Note Pro, etc. are the largest devices that will fit in a typical hotel safe. I travel frequently and getting the easily stolen electronic device in the safe is an important plus for me. Larger form factors are a no go for me in the intended usage I have for this device. I could go on for a while here talking about my own personal needs for battery life, computing power, etc but I think you get the idea. My needs are not the same as yours and my opinions based on those needs are not going to be shared by you or probably many. Just as others have their own needs and opinions. Mine isn't wrong, they're not wrong, yours is not wrong. It is after all an opinion, there is no right and wrong. That is where you are missing the point. You have mistaken your opinion for fact and think that it is therefore correct. It is not fact and it is not correct, it is an opinion and nothing more.

I'll give you the last word as I don't have anything to add other than I feel foolish for trying to explain something to someone who almost certainly isn't listening.

"I go often to places where there is no cloud and 128 gigs of storage combined with the largest possible SD card is below my minimum need for storage. "

What are you storing locally that takes up more than msssd + sd card say 256GB? Seriously. If you say movies/music I'm going to have zero respect for you and your common sense abilities and storage experience. If its work what files are taking up 256GB? Why cannot you not "suffice" with 128?

 

[ioaniro]

Again, hopefully the last time I will detail. People work with these things, it's also probably why they were named pro in the first place. While you are fine with a small SSD and 4Gb of ram people that rely on large data files, programs that take large amounts of ram and ssd etc and do actual work on these things need more than that. Why is it so hard to get that what you consider decent can be entry level for others? And I also don't get the mass produced part, all the components inside are mass produced whether we're talking m3, i5 or i7. Would you believe that the body of the m3 is especially made for the m3? Or the hinge? Or the anything else? They make everything together. Makes no sense what you are saying. And your expert opinion is clouded by your weird logic and is fast fading. How can someone that can't grasp concepts like different people have different needs provide an expert advice?

 

[boltman2013]

Again, hopefully the last time I will detail. People work with these things, it's also probably why they were named pro in the first place. While you are fine with a small SSD and 4Gb of ram people that rely on large data files, programs that take large amounts of ram and ssd etc and do actual work on these things need more than that. Why is it so hard to get that what you consider decent can be entry level for others? And I also don't get the mass produced part, all the components inside are mass produced whether we're talking m3, i5 or i7. Would you believe that the body of the m3 is especially made for the m3? Or the hinge? Or the anything else? They make everything together. Makes no sense what you are saying. And your expert opinion is clouded by your weird logic and is fast fading. How can someone that can't grasp concepts like different people have different needs provide an expert advice?

In summary a tablet which is what the SP is should be fan-less at all costs especially when they have an upscale model surface book with fans and extra ports. You people don't get it...the i5/i7 do not belong in a tablet. They are wrong for this form factor. Push M core development and we have the perfect Surface Pro 5 line.

Again, hopefully the last time I will detail. People work with these things, it's also probably why they were named pro in the first place. While you are fine with a small SSD and 4Gb of ram people that rely on large data files, programs that take large amounts of ram and ssd etc and do actual work on these things need more than that. Why is it so hard to get that what you consider decent can be entry level for others? And I also don't get the mass produced part, all the components inside are mass produced whether we're talking m3, i5 or i7. Would you believe that the body of the m3 is especially made for the m3? Or the hinge? Or the anything else? They make everything together. Makes no sense what you are saying. And your expert opinion is clouded by your weird logic and is fast fading. How can someone that can't grasp concepts like different people have different needs provide an expert advice?

In summary a tablet which is what the SP is should be fan-less at all costs especially when they have an upscale model surface book. You people don't get it...the i5/i7 do not belong in a SP tablet. They are wrong for this form factor seriously if you spend $1500 + on a SP you are crazy..get a SB at the same price.

And YES each SP model is fully customized. So lower unit production means higher quality on average than mass produced ones they demoed in stores.

 

[onlysublime]

why does boltman have to invade every thread and rah rah about the M3? most of the time it has nothing to do with the thread.

When it comes to graphics and video such as with games, it's all about the driver. Now, Nvidia and AMD update their drivers on a monthly basis because of that. And their driver updates are to specifically target defects in gaming since gaming pushes PCs hard and pushes their drivers hard to the point of breaking the driver (seen through glitches, dropped frame rates, etc.). Unfortunately, Intel doesn't update drivers as frequently because their constituent is not as gaming heavy. Nvidia wouldn't exist without the gamers.

Have any of you ever looked at the release notes for any given Nvidia graphics card? It's multiple pages and even includes a section of known open problems (meaning problems they know about but haven't addressed yet). Here's a sample from a recent Nvidia release driver update:

As with every released driver, version 359.06 WHQL of the Release 358 driver has open issues and enhancement requests associated with
it. This section includes lists of issues that are either not fixed or not implemented in this version.

Windows 10 Issues
Driver installation will fail if GeForce Experience is a selected component and the system is either in safe mode or without a network connection. [200151914]
[Luxmark 3.0, Windows 10 TH2] Display driver stopped responding while running benchmark LuxBall HDR (Simple Bechmark:217K triangles). [200153736]
[Titan Black SLI, Windows 10 TH2] When a game is launched with in-game settings
preset set to Ultra, it crashes with the operating system warning Close the programs to prevent information loss. [200148046]
NVIDIA recommends that this configuration be used with at least 12 GB of system memory.
[347.09, GM204] Blank screen observed on an ASUS Tiled display when system resumes from shutdown or hibernation with Fast boot option enabled from BIOS. [1591053]

Windows 8.1 Issues
With a 3DTV connected and the resolution set to an HD3D resolution through the NVIDIA Control Panel, the display flickers constantly after installing the driver via INF over driver version 320.49. [1315116]
[3DVision] While a stereoscopic 3D video with stereoscopic 3D enabled is played, the monitor refresh rate switches to 60 Hz after changing the resolution using the Windows control panel. [1314811]

Windows 8 Issues
[Optimus, Notebook] After installing the driver, the Device Manager includes an entry for the NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device but the entry has a yellow bang.
Release 358 Graphics Drivers for Windows, Version 359.06 RN-W35906-01v01
|
13
Open Issues in Version 359.06 WHQL
The NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device is not needed nor used on Optimus notebooks, so there is no effect on your notebook function. To remove the yellow bang, reboot your notebook.
With a 3DTV connected and the resolution set to an HD3D resolution through the NVIDIA Control Panel, the display flickers constantly after installing the driver via INF over driver version 320.49. [1315116]
[Video, Notebook, Hulu Desktop] When attempting to play videos using Hulu Desktop, there is audio but no video. [1000017]
[Video, Notebook, Internet Explorer, YouTube] The NVIDIA Control Panel video color settings have no effect on YouTube flash video playback within Internet Explorer 10. [999485]
[SLI, GeForce 500 series, DirectX 11, Dragon Age II] Shadows flicker in the cutscene when SLI is enabled. [849235]

Windows 7/Windows Vista Issues
Driver installation will fail if GeForce Experience is a selected component and the system is either in safe mode or without a network connection. [200151914]
[3DVision] While a stereoscopic 3D video with stereoscopic 3D enabled is played, the monitor refresh rate switches to 60 Hz after changing the resolution using the Windows control panel. [1314811]
[GeForce 500 series, Need for Speed: The Run] During the race the sun flickers and there are bright blips and black patches. [909577]
[SLI, Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor] With SLI enabled, there is heavy flickering in the game after switching from windowed mode to full-screen mode. [892264]
NVS 4200M, Optimus, F1 2011] The game hangs while selecting Quit To Main Menu during gameplay. [879537]
[SLI, GeForce 500 series, DirectX 11, Dragon Age II] Shadows flicker in the cutscene when SLI is enabled. [849235]
[GeForce 400 series, Total War: Shogun 2] The sun and surrounding area within the game flicker. [807036]

Skylake is new which means the drivers for the motherboard chipset, the CPU and the GPU are not mature yet. People are going to have to go through the growing pains as Intel updates their drivers. It's the reason why the display driver was crashing in doing things as simple as watching a video.

 

[zkyevolved]

"I go often to places where there is no cloud and 128 gigs of storage combined with the largest possible SD card is below my minimum need for storage. "

What are you storing locally that takes up more than msssd + sd card say 256GB? Seriously. If you say movies/music I'm going to have zero respect for you and your common sense abilities and storage experience. If its work what files are taking up 256GB? Why cannot you not "suffice" with 128?

Actually, I think 128 is a little too strict for my taste. I had the 128GB SP2 and I bought 2 128 SP4. If I can scrounge up the cash, I'm going for the 256 model. The reason for this is I use my SP4 as a full PC. I use BTSync to sync over files. Now, with only 128, I use "selective mode" where it brings over place markers and when I double click (or right click -> sync to this device) I get that file or folder, which is OK! But if I synced 100% of my documents folder and 100% of my pictures folder and 100% of my dropbox folder (I'm still missing my huge OneDrive folder), then we're talking about A LOT of space. Here are some screenshots.


Thankfully apps like BTSync exists, coupled with my server at home, I basically have EVERY file I want while connected to the internet at work. the 128GB + 64gb SD card works fine for me, but would I like to have to sync everything in advance or needing an internet connection? No! Of course not! If I could afford the 256 or 512 gb model, I would xD haha.

I actually returned my SP4s because they were giving me so many problems that the last Surface tech told me "How attached are you to your data? We're going to need to format" and this would be the 5th time in 3 weeks over 2 SP4s (and each time takes over 3 hours! There some hardware issue since my SP2 formats in 30 minutes, and so does my slower desktop). I have formatted my SP2 1 time in the 2 years I've owned it. I'm returning the Sp4 and waiting until bugs get fixed. Maybe I'll give another device a try, like the Dell Inspiron 2-in-1. I know, it's not the same, but have any of you tried it? I'll probably pick up another SP4. haha. I love the design and weight of it. It's just too damn buggy, slow SSD, light bleed, micro lags, sleep issues. I know the last few will be fixed, but the first ones are hardware issues... So, I'll try my luck again in a few weeks after newer batches are out! I had 2 from the same 1545 batch, both had A LOT of issues.

Anyways, I would get the 256 or 512 model, the i7 is very powerful and comes with a better GPU. That alone makes it worth it if you can spend it. Now, how much more worth it is it over the i5/ Hmm.... There in lies the question.

 

[Geodude074]

Just got the I7 middle because I thought the iris graphics would be good for a bit or light gaming ever now and then and it does really well in gems for like the first 30 seconds then it throttles so hard is it even worth keeping the i7 version or taking it back and exchanging it for the i5 version which seems to not throttle so much.

What's the point in paying extra for the i7 performance when you can't use it anyway.

If you wanted to do light gaming, you should have bought the Surface Book with the dGPU.

 

[Blairpoll]

I wanted a tablet first not a laptop and besides my pro 2 plays all the games I want just a bit annoyed that the i7 could do so much more if it didn't throttle that's all.

 

[boltman2013]

If you wanted to do light gaming, you should have bought the Surface Book with the dGPU.

Exactly. True that.

 

[CrownedMartyr]

That's unfortunate to hear. I was hoping this new cooling system would alleviate throttling issues.

Like others have said, if you're interested in playing games (other than what you can find in the Windows Store), then you should probably look for something other than the Surface. Like you, I wanted something really portable that could also do some light gaming. So I decided to go with the i5 SP4 and with the money I saved grabbed an Xbox One and I'll just stream the games to my Surface. Yes, this limits you to playing within your home, so YMMV. Just food for thought.

Also, don't listen to Boltman. He has so much free time to write all these long-winded posts worshipping the m3 that I'm convinced the only reason he bought that model was because he doesn't have a job and that was the only one he could afford.

 

[xandros9]

If you wanted to do light gaming, you should have bought the Surface Book with the dGPU.

TBH, the integrated graphics of the Surface Pro and other ultrabooks will suffice for light gaming, but for fancier stuff, I might look to other less expensive devices than the Book, although it is attractive.

 

[boltman2013]

That's unfortunate to hear. I was hoping this new cooling system would alleviate throttling issues.

Like others have said, if you're interested in playing games (other than what you can find in the Windows Store), then you should probably look for something other than the Surface. Like you, I wanted something really portable that could also do some light gaming. So I decided to go with the i5 SP4 and with the money I saved grabbed an Xbox One and I'll just stream the games to my Surface. Yes, this limits you to playing within your home, so YMMV. Just food for thought.

Also, don't listen to Boltman. He has so much free time to write all these long-winded posts worshipping the m3 that I'm convinced the only reason he bought that model was because he doesn't have a job and that was the only one he could afford.

Um no. But you can think that if you want.

The M3 is perfect cpu for the Surface Pro (I paid $809 after discount) ...no matter what metric you slice it with. I don't overspend (especially on tech) one reason I have a lot in stocks, equity, cars paid off, ocean view home in San Diego under 7 years to payoff... I do not overspend and get what I need at the time. Another example my TV is a Sharp Aquos .... its good enough. Paid $350...great PQ and sound..in a sea of north of $1000 sets.

But hey if you want to throw $1500+ towards a SP4 be my guest. Some people do what others do not, and it works. Those people are the smart ones..the mass group think ones are not as smart.

 

[Grimmric]

Um no. But you can think that if you want.

The M3 is perfect cpu for the Surface Pro (I paid $809 after discount) ...no matter what metric you slice it with. I don't overspend (especially on tech) one reason I have a lot in stocks, equity, cars paid off, ocean view home in San Diego under 7 years to payoff... I do not overspend and get what I need at the time. Another example my TV is a Sharp Aquos .... its good enough. Paid $350...great PQ and sound..in a sea of north of $1000 sets.

But hey if you want to throw $1500+ towards a SP4 be my guest. Some people do what others do not, and it works. Those people are the smart ones..the mass group think ones are not as smart.

So if i understand it right.
If you buy a M3 then you are smart?
If you buy a i5/i7 then you are not smart?
It doesn't matter what you are gonna use it for?
Buy a m3 or no SP4 at all?
I dont agree with that logic, if its ok with you.
Only i know what i want to use it for and only i know how much money i think its worth.
For me i think people are stupid to buy a m3 as its not enough.
If i follow yor logic everybody should use it like i'm gonna use it.

 

[onlysublime]

I wanted a tablet first not a laptop and besides my pro 2 plays all the games I want just a bit annoyed that the i7 could do so much more if it didn't throttle that's all.

So are you getting problems running at 1080P and below? Remember that modern desktop GPUs come with 1GB to 8GB of dedicated video RAM. Iris does not have any dedicated RAM. They use system RAM and the small 64 MB EDRAM as a buffer/cache. RAM usage is very resolution dependent. This is why the Xbox One with 32 MB ESRAM has a more difficult time achieving 1080p gaming because the developer has to be very smart about how they manage assets within that 32 MB and how to transfer data from system RAM to ESRAM. 64 MB EDRAM is better but transferring data between system RAM and EDRAM can result in significant frame rate loss if the software or the driver is not designed to handle the implementation.

 

[boltman2013]

So if i understand it right.
If you buy a M3 then you are smart?
If you buy a i5/i7 then you are not smart?
It doesn't matter what you are gonna use it for?
Buy a m3 or no SP4 at all?
I dont agree with that logic, if its ok with you.
Only i know what i want to use it for and only i know how much money i think its worth.
For me i think people are stupid to buy a m3 as its not enough.
If i follow yor logic everybody should use it like i'm gonna use it.

Basically yea.

M3 the smart buy on SP4
That makes i5/i7 buyers not as smart since another product would have been a better choice like surface book
Yes
OK
OK
OK
Yep..and it'll work for 99%

 

[Grimmric]

Basically yea.

M3 the smart buy on SP4
That makes i5/i7 buyers not as smart since another product would have been a better choice like surface book
Yes
OK
OK
OK
Yep..and it'll work for 99%

So which one should i have bought instead of my i5?

 

[ioaniro]

I'm guessing the thread derailed :grin:. By this logic buying a keyboard for the SP4 is not smart, you can do anything you want with the touch keyboard and the pen no?
Anyway, slightly back on topic, heavy gaming use is not really thought for a tablet, or at least don't expect it to perform on high settings. For intensive work the i5 (and I am assuming the i7 too) works very well, never saw it slowing down or over heating. But then again I am one of those weird people that uses data that takes up around 150gb of the SDD and requires a lot of RAM, I hear we're called working people :angel:.

 

[onlysublime]

bolt derails every thread... what's new?

 

[boltman2013]

So which one should i have bought instead of my i5?

M3 unless you are in the 1% and like to overspend or have "the best"