08-08-2017 02:02 PM
86 1234
tools
  1. maddogmoffit's Avatar
    Yes it is. Not because many will used it but because it is an signal that this is not:
    • A flagship product!
    • The best of the best!
    • Something for the future!


    This kind of signals are important and are what can make or brake an product.
    07-04-2017 04:15 AM
  2. charlie49's Avatar
    Why would you need to swap a USB-C port for DP? You can pass DP over USB-C, so that one port can do everything you need. I agree that faster TB speeds aren't that critical for most people, but USB-C ports are multi-functional, so they are future-proof, allowing you to use them for whatever you want. For example, i want to carry a portable second monitor that can be powered by USB-C and take DP video feed via the same cable. If the Surface Pro had USB-C with DP, then I'd just need to carry a Surface Pro, a second (very thin) monitor and one USB-C to USB-C cable, all of which would fit into a thin slip-case.
    07-04-2017 07:00 AM
  3. yjchua's Avatar
    What am I doing without USB-C?

    Simple - I don't buy it and stick back to my SP4.

    In fact, even USB-C isn't enough. If it doesn't have Thunderbolt 3 (for eGPU or expansion), I'm not buying it.
    PeterFnet likes this.
    07-04-2017 07:50 AM
  4. taynjack's Avatar
    In 2007 i bought a laptop that happened to have an HDMI port. It seemed very useless at the time as only TV's and DVD players had hdmi and often only the higher end ones. Three years later, it was indispensible as everything came with hdmi. That computer did have a vga connection, and when i first bought it that is what i used. Now i don't even have a vga cable. The point here is it may be useless today, but it will be important for the future to come. Spending the crazy money for a Surface product, it better last a good long time, without usb-c, it will be obsolete sooner. Then you'll need dongles for everything that doesn't have usb-a. The general public didn't know about hdmi until all equipment came with one. So how is the general public going to learn about usb-c, if it stays a niche product?
    07-04-2017 01:23 PM
  5. onlysublime's Avatar
    So how is the general public going to learn about usb-c, if it stays a niche product?
    this is the real motive that USB-C proponents have. they so desperately want everything to be usb-c that they're pushing it so hard. proponents know that it will stay a niche port if the advocates don't proselytize it.

    in 3 years, this Surface Pro will be middle-aged. 1 year = 15 computer years. time to start shopping for a new computer. Even if you don't shop for a new one, USB-A will not disappear overnight. My printer, my cameras, etc. will not suddenly disappear. This is not "Left Behind." Heck, you can still find PS/2 ports on some motherboards even though those are like 30 years old now.

    Not saying USB-C is not useful. If I had a workflow that demanded it, I would've bought a different computer. But the only USB-C device I have is my Samsung Galaxy S8.
    Drael646464 and techiez like this.
    07-04-2017 06:42 PM
  6. noirsoft's Avatar
    I am still hoping that a new dock is coming with Thunerbolt. The Surface Connect port has the bandwidth for it, and I would only want/need it for devices that would most likely live at home, like an eGPU or pro level audio interface.
    07-05-2017 02:16 AM
  7. Brian Embry's Avatar
    Since I don't have at this moment any device with USB-C and I don't use any peripherals this wouldn't be a deal killer for me. If I want to see something on a bigger screen I just cast it from my phone. What I do doesn't require peripherals.
    07-05-2017 10:19 AM
  8. taynjack's Avatar
    @onlysublime I respectfully disagree that the Surface Pro will be middle aged in three years. Maybe for the few people who always have to have bleeding edge tech, or those who play the latest HD games (for which the Surface Pro isn't the target demographic), but not the general population. I work in an architect office. We have several computers that are 5-6 years old. They are running old i7-3770k and i7-4770 chips, 16gb ram, with SSD's. Neither are overclocked. We built a new computer last month with the latest motherboards, Kaby lake i7-7700k, 16 gb ram and an SSD, then overclocked by 18%. The new computer beat the other two in a rendering race by only 1 minute. (yes it does it running cooler.) Is the new one better? Absolutely, but it hardly makes the older computers obsolete. Productivity jumps have slowed considerably. The idea that a computer is completely obsolete in 5 years no longer holds water, except of course if you are a gamer. My old DV-6000 from 2007 still runs all the programs (photoshop, autocad, and Sketchup) I need it to and it does it well enough for a work backup working from home. Yes it takes 68 seconds to boot up, and it won't render like my work computer, but that's not what I bought it for. The vast majority of people no longer need to upgrade every 5 years to stay relevant with the technology. Cell phones are still developing rapidly, and may be considered completely obsolete in 5 years, but not computers.
    07-05-2017 11:37 AM
  9. convergent's Avatar
    I was waiting and hoping that the Surface Pro 5 would have USB-C, preferably Thunderbolt 3. Given that there isn't a single 2-in-1 detachable running Windows 10 with this port on the market, I am done with Windows as a whole. After owning 7 Windows Phones over the last few years, I finally went to iPhone 7 Plus. Since Microsoft doesn't seem to care at all about advancing the technology of their products, I am done. I haven't owned a PC for a year now, and don't plan to ever again after the Surface Pro 5 debacle. Panos Panay just doesn't get it, charging a huge price premium for a subpar device. He has really taken Microsoft in the complete wrong direction with hardware.
    ....
    My father has a video production business. All of the video editing gear and storage devices use Thunderbolt 3. Surface is 100% useless in the video production industry. So no, video editors will not buy any Surface device, because it simply won't work for them.
    I copied a couple of your posts here... you obviously have a unique use case of video production that is not the vast majority of folks shopping for a detachable keyboard tablet. Because of that, you've decide that Microsoft is making sub par products even though you acknowledged that none of the detachable keyboard tablet makers are supporting TB3, which is what you need? You are welcome to your opinion, but I don't find it subpar and and in fact I am moving away from Apple, due in large part to where Microsoft is headed with their stuff in general, and the Surface Pro specifically. Not everyone has the same needs.

    The fact is that USB-C is a mess. Its a standard port definition with different electronic uses which is confusing on one regard, and potentially dangerous in another. No one can tell the future in technology, but I would not be surprised if something new comes along that everyone jumps to long before USB-C ever becomes a real standard.

    Its totally hilarious to me that the Apple users had a fit when Apple came out with only USB-C on their MacBook, and now we have people on the other side having a fit because Microsoft didn't do that.

    Personally, USB-C is a non decision point for me. I don't need it so it isn't box that I care if is checked or not on the feature list.
    Brian Embry likes this.
    07-05-2017 01:31 PM
  10. onlysublime's Avatar
    @onlysublime I respectfully disagree that the Surface Pro will be middle aged in three years. Maybe for the few people who always have to have bleeding edge tech, or those who play the latest HD games (for which the Surface Pro isn't the target demographic), but not the general population. I work in an architect office. We have several computers that are 5-6 years old. They are running old i7-3770k and i7-4770 chips, 16gb ram, with SSD's. Neither are overclocked. We built a new computer last month with the latest motherboards, Kaby lake i7-7700k, 16 gb ram and an SSD, then overclocked by 18%. My old DV-6000 from 2007 still runs all the programs (photoshop, autocad, and Sketchup) I need it to and it does it well enough for a work backup working from home. Yes it takes 68 seconds to boot up, and it won't render like my work computer, but that's not what I bought it for. The vast majority of people no longer need to upgrade every 5 years to stay relevant with the technology. Cell phones are still developing rapidly, and may be considered completely obsolete in 5 years, but not computers.
    your work PCs are not typical builds for consumers. most consumers only have 4-8 GB. easily seen in the statistics. SSDs only make up a small percentage of the market, especially on desktop machines. i7 processors also make up a small portion of the market. your work PCs of course were on the leading edge so of course they're going to last longer. you still get what you pay for.

    and we have completely definitions of obsolescence if you think your DV-6000 can run today's Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. well. You would have to go back to CS3 or CS4 to run decently on that computer and I still wouldn't be comfortable running CS4 on that machine.

    And I never said the computer was obsolete. A middle-aged person is not obsolete. Just old and slower.
    07-05-2017 03:19 PM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    I don't even buy Microsoft's position on that. USB-PD for USB 3.1 was created just for that. It can push out to 100 watts. USB chargers are labeled with how much power they can push. Also, Microsoft still should have that Windows 10 convention to alert a user when a slow charging source is used.
    Yeah, the average user has no idea how much amps and watts their charger is.

    @onlysublime I respectfully disagree that the Surface Pro will be middle aged in three years. Maybe for the few people who always have to have bleeding edge tech, or those who play the latest HD games (for which the Surface Pro isn't the target demographic), but not the general population. I work in an architect office. We have several computers that are 5-6 years old. They are running old i7-3770k and i7-4770 chips, 16gb ram, with SSD's. Neither are overclocked. We built a new computer last month with the latest motherboards, Kaby lake i7-7700k, 16 gb ram and an SSD, then overclocked by 18%. The new computer beat the other two in a rendering race by only 1 minute. (yes it does it running cooler.) Is the new one better? Absolutely, but it hardly makes the older computers obsolete. Productivity jumps have slowed considerably. The idea that a computer is completely obsolete in 5 years no longer holds water, except of course if you are a gamer. My old DV-6000 from 2007 still runs all the programs (photoshop, autocad, and Sketchup) I need it to and it does it well enough for a work backup working from home. Yes it takes 68 seconds to boot up, and it won't render like my work computer, but that's not what I bought it for. The vast majority of people no longer need to upgrade every 5 years to stay relevant with the technology. Cell phones are still developing rapidly, and may be considered completely obsolete in 5 years, but not computers.
    Device turnover with cellphones is slowing too. Used to be 2-3, now its 3-4 and widening.

    I think pretty soon it'll get to about the 5 consumers on average apply to PCs.

    Moore's law has slowed, and UX differences between smartphones released each year has slowed a lot. Just adding more RAM on a machine that does not much multi-tasking doesn't add a lot. RAM has always been diminishing returns anyway.

    Plus there's a degree to which smartphones are being perceived in mature markets now as just a tech appliance, rather than the amazing novelty and status symbol it used to be. Always happens post-adoption phase with new tech.

    You are right though, you can have a 5+ old year machine that chugs along running windows 10 for basic tasks just fine, especially if you throw in some upgrades.

    My last computer was literally a dell OptiPlex, that I upgraded to 8gb and ssd. Ddr-2, and ran windows 10 just fine, even some games (I actually got gta V running on it, just playably). Graphics card probably matters more for a lot of tasks nowadays, as even 2D graphics will utilise the GPU.
    Last edited by Guytronic; 07-09-2017 at 06:56 PM.
    07-09-2017 06:11 AM
  12. HindsKA's Avatar
    I didn't buy the 4 because I was sure this one would have it. I don't se the reason why not... You wouldn't need HDMI or USB....
    07-12-2017 01:48 PM
  13. Mr-Gamy's Avatar
    I was one of the people that was hoping for USB-C on the surface (in combination with A).
    I do understand why they didn't add it. But the large companies should be pushing these new technologies.

    Why do I want USB type C?
    I dream of a super portable system that can turn into a full desktop.
    I currently own a SP 4 with 4gb ram, i5 & 128gb SSD. which is not suitable for a decent desktop. So i need to upgrade.
    For a desktop experience i need the surface dock. I hoped for USB C on the surface so that the dock would be a USB-C dock. The dock is ridiculously expensive at 240€ and for that money i want a dock that is future proof and usable with my other USB-c devices (like my smartphones, or someday an other portable destkop/laptop/tablet device). Not a dock that will someday (close in the future) be useless.

    I was ready for a big investment the change my 7 year old pc to an ultraportable system.
    Surface Pro (with usb c)
    Surface Dock
    Lumia 950
    Samsung Portable SSD
    Gopro hero 5
    Big portable battery pack with USB C


    Surface products are expensive. I have no problem paying premium prices to get the best. love my SP 4.
    But 2000€+ for the upgrade to an ultra portable system is just not worth it without USB C.
    07-12-2017 03:51 PM
  14. eshy's Avatar
    When I got my Surface Pro 3 it wasn't an issue but my plans to upgrade to the SP5 were cancelled because of the lack of Thunderbolt 3 (I couldn't care less about USB-C as a port if it's just USB 3.1, it's the lack of TB3 that's an issue).

    The two main reasons I wanted TB3 are the many options of docking stations and support for FireWire (I have some old devices that use it and cost more than a Surface Pro...). With Thunderbolt you can use a simple adapter (Apple sells one) to connect FW hardware, without it I'm forced to keep my old desktop around until I decide which non Surface laptop I go for next...
    07-12-2017 04:04 PM
  15. LCpl Woof's Avatar
    Yeah, calling it SurBook isn't going to catch on anytime soon.
    07-12-2017 08:19 PM
  16. hdtvchris's Avatar
    USB-C= solving problems that don't exist!
    Jefe32 likes this.
    07-12-2017 09:38 PM
  17. SvenJ's Avatar
    I can't see that is a real issue. You have to go out of your way to find a peripheral that plugs into a USB-C port. I have a 950/950XL and Pixel, all with USB-C, all came with USB-C to A charge cables.

    That said, I think replacing the DP with a USB-C/Thunderbolt port would have been very nice. Keep the existing A port. For those that actually use that DP, you just need a dongle or the right cable, to replace the dongle or cable you are currently using. It would however have provided the opportunity to connect a USB-C dock, maybe even the Lumia Display Dock. There would have been the built in option for two USBs for file transfers, one Ethernet, one USB, two USB monitors, a number of options that don't exist now. You could potentially have charged the Surface from that port. (My XPS 15 charges off the USB-C or the usual coaxial barrel charger.) It would have increased the flexibility tremendously while causing very few issues for current Surface owners upgrading.
    JediTWang likes this.
    07-12-2017 10:12 PM
  18. Carl Erics's Avatar
    I'd like to have a F&%¤ GPS on it, so...i didnt buy one, until they do
    07-12-2017 11:54 PM
  19. Nicekiwi's Avatar
    I have a USB-C phone, but never need to charge it from the Surface, and while it would be nice to charge with USB-C instead of the proprietary cable.. eh its not really an issue.

    I don't use anything that transfers data over USB-C.
    07-13-2017 12:20 AM
  20. techiez's Avatar
    My GL552 has a USB type C and I've never needed it. WC has made a big deal about it without putting any thought on it if its really needed or not.
    07-13-2017 01:52 AM
  21. Richard Toft's Avatar
    All my devices are standard usb, so missing that usb c port? Nope.
    07-13-2017 03:07 AM
  22. Jefe32's Avatar
    I wonder if it would have been possible to put 3.1 gen 2 USB A port. Same speed just normal usb port not usb c. I don't know if a separate chip/controller would have been needed. My motherboard's back port has one and its not a normal blue looking 3.0 port but a lighter blue color.
    07-13-2017 04:53 AM
  23. milkshakemadness's Avatar
    I don't think I've ever even seen a USB C in person before
    07-13-2017 02:13 PM
  24. eshy's Avatar
    This isn't about charging your phone. You can charge your phone with USB-A as well.




    There's a lot of confusion over USB 3.1 (which can use Type A or Type C ports) and Thunderbolt 3 (which uses the same Type C port and supports all the USB 3.1 features) and WinCentral keeps confusing their readers more by using these terms interchangeably.


    I don't really care if Surface devices get USB 3.1 Type C ports, if it's not TB3 I still won't buy it.




    So far most Thunderbolt 3 peripherals are docking stations and external GPU cases. There are a few drives as well.


    Maybe this isn't something you need right now or ever but as USB-C is now the only port on Macbooks and it's available on pretty much all other high end laptops (those that cost like a Surface) as well as most new phones it's only a matter of time before it's the standard for all new peripherals as well.


    Personally I don't replace my laptop every year. If I'm going to spend $1500+ on a new one it needs to support the new standard port so I don't regret the purchase in a year.
    toddpart and Jefe32 like this.
    07-13-2017 03:57 PM
  25. anon(5327127)'s Avatar
    OMG! I am SO happy that MS missed the USB C port as this has just been announced. A new standard.

    USB 3.2 specification doubles USB Type-C bandwidth - Peripherals - News - HEXUS.net

    Time to buy all of those devices again that support the new tech. Oh, hang on, I'd better read the article first. You'll require new cables and new devices but at least it'll be backwards compatible. This stuff always makes me laugh and people soak up the marketing each and every single time.

    P.s. I still only own one USB c device which features a 3.1 connector on the other end. I still only know one person, in this entire company, that owns a usb c device (me).
    07-26-2017 09:04 AM
86 1234

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-11-2017, 07:20 AM
  2. The absolute best Prime Day deals you can buy right now
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 09:30 AM
  3. Amazon Prime Day hits the UK — Here are the best tech deals!
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 06:50 AM
  4. These Prime Day-exclusive Xbox One S bundles have prices you won't find anywhere else
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 05:50 AM
  5. Seagate's 8TB USB hard drive is just £120 for Prime Day
    By WindowsCentral.com in forum Windows Central News Discussion & Contests
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 04:40 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD