What are you doing without USB-C?

[anon(5327127)]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

I'm going to need a source on that. Intel has not announced any new standard that would replace/compete USB 3.1 Gen2. Intel DID say they will make it royalty free in 2018 and will also include it in their next chips. There is mo marketing bull;

If anyone is getting to sound cool, it's people like you ripping on others wanting the ONLY port that go faster than realistically USB 2.0.

Peter... I may have used the wrong type of word there:


"Intel also revealed plans to integrate Thunderbolt 3 into its future CPUs, but it didn't provide a timeline as to when. The all-in-one design will take up less space on a Mac or PC's logic board, and reduce power consumption by eliminating the need for a standalone Thunderbolt controller.
“Apple and Intel have collaborated on Thunderbolt from the beginning, and as the industry leader in its adoption, we applaud Intel’s efforts to integrate Thunderbolt technology into its CPUs and open it up to the rest of the industry,” said Dan Riccio, Apple’s senior vice president of Hardware Engineering.


Intel said Thunderbolt 3 built into the processor could pave the way for thinner and lighter devices, although the current Thunderbolt 3 controller used in Apple's latest MacBook Pro has a package size of 10.7mm×10.7mm, so any logic board space saved would likely be negligible. "



Basically whatever we had just before THE Surface Pro arrived it'll soon change. Hence be old and that's how the marketing will spin it.


As it stands you can read the other posts and it's basically all currently marketing bull to sell x and y. That's what it'll always be. Sure, of course, we do get speed boosts ever so often but by the time USB C really hits the mainstream another new port will be announced. The cycle continues, tech sites keep on stating the same things and the consumer laps all of it up believing everything they read. The posts here, plus on other pages, state that it's nowhere near being the mainstream.


I have a USB C port on my 950 and the only thing it has meant is having to buy another new cable. Do I prefer it? YES. Do 'I' need it? Not really. Basically I'd like the port on every single device. Honest. But right now I have 1 thumb drive just in case. It is, due to this, a shame that the Surface Pro has had to have had quite a bit of flack for missing the port.




P.s. At no point am I trying to sound cool.

 

[anon(5327127)]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Given the recent hardware refresh cycle, don't expect a new Surface with USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 for at least another 18 months, maybe even longer. If ever, actually. Time to move on to an Apple. At least they give you multiple Thunderbolt 3 ports. Just wish they had a 2-in-1 detachable.

You'd spend $$$$ just to gain one port? Isn't usb 3.1 enough? Many of the artists, the designers, the video editors, the music producers, will just go ahead and buy a Surface Pro regardless of the port. I honestly think, seeing as you've already moved to a mac, that you probably wouldn't have purchased the Surface anyway due to 'windows'.

 

[PeterFnet]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Peter... I may have used the wrong type of word there:


"Intel also revealed plans to integrate Thunderbolt 3 into its future CPUs, but it didn't provide a timeline as to when. The all-in-one design will take up less space on a Mac or PC's logic board, and reduce power consumption by eliminating the need for a standalone Thunderbolt controller.
“Apple and Intel have collaborated on Thunderbolt from the beginning, and as the industry leader in its adoption, we applaud Intel’s efforts to integrate Thunderbolt technology into its CPUs and open it up to the rest of the industry,” said Dan Riccio, Apple’s senior vice president of Hardware Engineering.


Intel said Thunderbolt 3 built into the processor could pave the way for thinner and lighter devices, although the current Thunderbolt 3 controller used in Apple's latest MacBook Pro has a package size of 10.7mm×10.7mm, so any logic board space saved would likely be negligible. "



Basically whatever we had just before THE Surface Pro arrived it'll soon change. Hence be old and that's how the marketing will spin it.


As it stands you can read the other posts and it's basically all currently marketing bull to sell x and y. That's what it'll always be. Sure, of course, we do get speed boosts ever so often but by the time USB C really hits the mainstream another new port will be announced. The cycle continues, tech sites keep on stating the same things and the consumer laps all of it up believing everything they read. The posts here, plus on other pages, state that it's nowhere near being the mainstream.


I have a USB C port on my 950 and the only thing it has meant is having to buy another new cable. Do I prefer it? YES. Do 'I' need it? Not really. Basically I'd like the port on every single device. Honest. But right now I have 1 thumb drive just in case. It is, due to this, a shame that the Surface Pro has had to have had quite a bit of flack for missing the port.




P.s. At no point am I trying to sound cool.

Yeah, well, neither are the rest of us wanting Thunderbolt 3 in our tablets.

By the time USB-C gets adopted another one will be out? That's a major assumption that I disagree with. It's here to stay based on ask the companies that have jumped on it and that it goes up to 10gbps while still being backwards compatible with an adapter(f the tablet manufacturer didn't build in both ports)

And they should receive flack for it. Their competition is putting it in, and Microsoft even put it in their own phones. It is a weird disconnect for them to omit it on a professional device

 

[astondg]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

I'll get by without it, it's not a deal breaker. But I would really like USB-C & TB3, I feel it would increase the convenience of the Surface Pro.

My use cases, in order of importance, are: 1. Connecting external SSD for storing and editing (in place) my GoPro videos. 2. A common charging port between my phone, Surface, and other laptops (e.g. at work where others use USB-C chargers). 3. A common docking system. I love the single cable docking provided by the Surface Connect port, but at home I share a desk with my wife who has a Toshiba laptop and at work with people who have MacBook Pros & Dells - all have USB-C and not Surface Connect. 4. If I had TB3 I'd get an external GPU which would cover all my gaming needs and make the surface my true 'one device'.

 

[Dusteater]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

You'd spend $$$$ just to gain one port? Isn't usb 3.1 enough? Many of the artists, the designers, the video editors, the music producers, will just go ahead and buy a Surface Pro regardless of the port. I honestly think, seeing as you've already moved to a mac, that you probably wouldn't have purchased the Surface anyway due to 'windows'.

My father has a video production business. All of the video editing gear and storage devices use Thunderbolt 3. Surface is 100% useless in the video production industry. So no, video editors will not buy any Surface device, because it simply won't work for them.

 

[fatclue_98]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Given the recent hardware refresh cycle, don't expect a new Surface with USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 for at least another 18 months, maybe even longer. If ever, actually. Time to move on to an Apple. At least they give you multiple Thunderbolt 3 ports. Just wish they had a 2-in-1 detachable.

For a 2-in-1 you need a touch interface first. Last I checked, MacOS still doesn't have one.

Sent from my Elite x3 on mTalk

 

[Durahl]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Despite not having a need for USB-C yet I still find it odd for them to choose a Mini-DP over USB-C.

I mean USB-C can serve many purposes including that of the Mini-DP but not the other way around.

Truly an odd choice - But not a deal breaker hence my purchase of a Surface Book with Performance Base.

 

[DeepK7]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Well the problem is there is the internal eMMC disk is 150 mbps or so, like all eMMC. It seems to run a bit faster copying over usb 3.1 but it would need to be capable of more than 400 mbps to take advantage of 3.1 - and that's a great deal of the problem with 3.1 as a standard - for disk copies, both ends need to be SSD fast or greater.

It's really only good ATM, for 1) wired networking 2) video, or as you point out 3) Charging (although I've been using wireless because its less hassle anyway)

As of today I have not updated from my HP Elitebook 8560W which has USB 3.0. I do a lot of IT support work for clients and need to at times copy HDD images so fast speed is of essence to me. The new HP Z-Books are my likely route forward with Thunderbolt. However as I have an Advanced docking station, I'll likely go with a Z-book 15 G2 as it is compatible The G3 does not have the docking connector). So no USB-C ports there.

That being said, I have to say IMHO the main reason I would prefer to have a USB-C port on a PC is the FLEXIBILITY; of charging, eGPU, and high-speed data. And lets not forget the TWO KEY IMPROVEMENTS for devices... REVERSIBLE CONNECTION and a SECURE CONNECTION vs micro-USB. I have lost count the number of micro-USB cables I have replaced due to sloppy connections.

 

[John McIlhinney]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

My father has a video production business. All of the video editing gear and storage devices use Thunderbolt 3. Surface is 100% useless in the video production industry. So no, video editors will not buy any Surface device, because it simply won't work for them.

So don't buy a Surface. There are plenty of other Windows machines that do support Thunderbolt 3 but you have chosen to ignore them because "Windows". You have greater issues than just the fact that Microsoft chose not to include a TB3 port on the latest Surface devices.

 

[Sparro]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

I also have nothing that requires USC-C, so really I couldn't care less.

 

[maddogmoffit]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Yes it is. Not because many will used it but because it is an signal that this is not:

• A flagship product!
• The best of the best!
• Something for the future!

This kind of signals are important and are what can make or brake an product.

 

[charlie49]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Why would you need to swap a USB-C port for DP? You can pass DP over USB-C, so that one port can do everything you need. I agree that faster TB speeds aren't that critical for most people, but USB-C ports are multi-functional, so they are future-proof, allowing you to use them for whatever you want. For example, i want to carry a portable second monitor that can be powered by USB-C and take DP video feed via the same cable. If the Surface Pro had USB-C with DP, then I'd just need to carry a Surface Pro, a second (very thin) monitor and one USB-C to USB-C cable, all of which would fit into a thin slip-case.

 

[yjchua]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

What am I doing without USB-C?

Simple - I don't buy it and stick back to my SP4.

In fact, even USB-C isn't enough. If it doesn't have Thunderbolt 3 (for eGPU or expansion), I'm not buying it.

 

[taynjack]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

In 2007 i bought a laptop that happened to have an HDMI port. It seemed very useless at the time as only TV's and DVD players had hdmi and often only the higher end ones. Three years later, it was indispensible as everything came with hdmi. That computer did have a vga connection, and when i first bought it that is what i used. Now i don't even have a vga cable. The point here is it may be useless today, but it will be important for the future to come. Spending the crazy money for a Surface product, it better last a good long time, without usb-c, it will be obsolete sooner. Then you'll need dongles for everything that doesn't have usb-a. The general public didn't know about hdmi until all equipment came with one. So how is the general public going to learn about usb-c, if it stays a niche product?

 

[onlysublime]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

So how is the general public going to learn about usb-c, if it stays a niche product?

this is the real motive that USB-C proponents have. they so desperately want everything to be usb-c that they're pushing it so hard. proponents know that it will stay a niche port if the advocates don't proselytize it.

in 3 years, this Surface Pro will be middle-aged. 1 year = 15 computer years. time to start shopping for a new computer. Even if you don't shop for a new one, USB-A will not disappear overnight. My printer, my cameras, etc. will not suddenly disappear. This is not "Left Behind." Heck, you can still find PS/2 ports on some motherboards even though those are like 30 years old now.

Not saying USB-C is not useful. If I had a workflow that demanded it, I would've bought a different computer. But the only USB-C device I have is my Samsung Galaxy S8.

 

[noirsoft]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

I am still hoping that a new dock is coming with Thunerbolt. The Surface Connect port has the bandwidth for it, and I would only want/need it for devices that would most likely live at home, like an eGPU or pro level audio interface.

 

[Brian Embry]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

Since I don't have at this moment any device with USB-C and I don't use any peripherals this wouldn't be a deal killer for me. If I want to see something on a bigger screen I just cast it from my phone. What I do doesn't require peripherals.

 

[taynjack]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

@onlysublime I respectfully disagree that the Surface Pro will be middle aged in three years. Maybe for the few people who always have to have bleeding edge tech, or those who play the latest HD games (for which the Surface Pro isn't the target demographic), but not the general population. I work in an architect office. We have several computers that are 5-6 years old. They are running old i7-3770k and i7-4770 chips, 16gb ram, with SSD's. Neither are overclocked. We built a new computer last month with the latest motherboards, Kaby lake i7-7700k, 16 gb ram and an SSD, then overclocked by 18%. The new computer beat the other two in a rendering race by only 1 minute. (yes it does it running cooler.) Is the new one better? Absolutely, but it hardly makes the older computers obsolete. Productivity jumps have slowed considerably. The idea that a computer is completely obsolete in 5 years no longer holds water, except of course if you are a gamer. My old DV-6000 from 2007 still runs all the programs (photoshop, autocad, and Sketchup) I need it to and it does it well enough for a work backup working from home. Yes it takes 68 seconds to boot up, and it won't render like my work computer, but that's not what I bought it for. The vast majority of people no longer need to upgrade every 5 years to stay relevant with the technology. Cell phones are still developing rapidly, and may be considered completely obsolete in 5 years, but not computers.

 

[convergent]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

I was waiting and hoping that the Surface Pro 5 would have USB-C, preferably Thunderbolt 3. Given that there isn't a single 2-in-1 detachable running Windows 10 with this port on the market, I am done with Windows as a whole. After owning 7 Windows Phones over the last few years, I finally went to iPhone 7 Plus. Since Microsoft doesn't seem to care at all about advancing the technology of their products, I am done. I haven't owned a PC for a year now, and don't plan to ever again after the Surface Pro 5 debacle. Panos Panay just doesn't get it, charging a huge price premium for a subpar device. He has really taken Microsoft in the complete wrong direction with hardware.
....
My father has a video production business. All of the video editing gear and storage devices use Thunderbolt 3. Surface is 100% useless in the video production industry. So no, video editors will not buy any Surface device, because it simply won't work for them.

I copied a couple of your posts here... you obviously have a unique use case of video production that is not the vast majority of folks shopping for a detachable keyboard tablet. Because of that, you've decide that Microsoft is making sub par products even though you acknowledged that none of the detachable keyboard tablet makers are supporting TB3, which is what you need? You are welcome to your opinion, but I don't find it subpar and and in fact I am moving away from Apple, due in large part to where Microsoft is headed with their stuff in general, and the Surface Pro specifically. Not everyone has the same needs.

The fact is that USB-C is a mess. Its a standard port definition with different electronic uses which is confusing on one regard, and potentially dangerous in another. No one can tell the future in technology, but I would not be surprised if something new comes along that everyone jumps to long before USB-C ever becomes a real standard.

Its totally hilarious to me that the Apple users had a fit when Apple came out with only USB-C on their MacBook, and now we have people on the other side having a fit because Microsoft didn't do that.

Personally, USB-C is a non decision point for me. I don't need it so it isn't box that I care if is checked or not on the feature list.

 

[onlysublime]

Re: What are you doing without usb-C?

@onlysublime I respectfully disagree that the Surface Pro will be middle aged in three years. Maybe for the few people who always have to have bleeding edge tech, or those who play the latest HD games (for which the Surface Pro isn't the target demographic), but not the general population. I work in an architect office. We have several computers that are 5-6 years old. They are running old i7-3770k and i7-4770 chips, 16gb ram, with SSD's. Neither are overclocked. We built a new computer last month with the latest motherboards, Kaby lake i7-7700k, 16 gb ram and an SSD, then overclocked by 18%. My old DV-6000 from 2007 still runs all the programs (photoshop, autocad, and Sketchup) I need it to and it does it well enough for a work backup working from home. Yes it takes 68 seconds to boot up, and it won't render like my work computer, but that's not what I bought it for. The vast majority of people no longer need to upgrade every 5 years to stay relevant with the technology. Cell phones are still developing rapidly, and may be considered completely obsolete in 5 years, but not computers.

your work PCs are not typical builds for consumers. most consumers only have 4-8 GB. easily seen in the statistics. SSDs only make up a small percentage of the market, especially on desktop machines. i7 processors also make up a small portion of the market. your work PCs of course were on the leading edge so of course they're going to last longer. you still get what you pay for.

and we have completely definitions of obsolescence if you think your DV-6000 can run today's Photoshop, AutoCAD, etc. well. You would have to go back to CS3 or CS4 to run decently on that computer and I still wouldn't be comfortable running CS4 on that machine.

And I never said the computer was obsolete. A middle-aged person is not obsolete. Just old and slower.