05-01-2013 11:06 PM
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  1. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    Yet for those who could care less about the audio engine on a tablet as long as their music sounds passable, the story still goes on and much more needs to be said.
    That's where the rest of the 250,000 apps come in.
    04-13-2013 06:40 AM
  2. michfan's Avatar
    That's where the rest of the 250,000 apps come in.
    For me, that's where the internet comes in. There is not a single iOS app that I miss. I wanted a productivity tool, not another toy (which is all my three iPads were ever good for).
    Magdy Samir likes this.
    04-13-2013 10:25 AM
  3. NickA's Avatar
    That's where the rest of the 250,000 apps come in.
    A Platform doesn't need 250k apps. Google just removed 60,000 junk apps from their Play store. A platform sometimes needs 1 or two apps to make it desirable. Think Instagram and Windows Phone. I don't get the whole Instagram thing, but for some they HAVE to have it. It's a deal breaker for them.

    And the Apple App store is horrible, it needs work. There are some really good apps, good luck finding them though.
    04-13-2013 11:13 AM
  4. Luminatic's Avatar
    To The Person that finds the surface unintuitive: how do you define "intuitive" and are you sure you don't mix that up with "familiar"?

    You cannot imagine how many times I had to search the web for information to help a friend finding out how to do this and that on her new iPhone like, say, search for a specific setting.
    What I want to say with this is that iProducts are as unintuitive as any other product if you have never used an iDevice before.

    Same experience when I was new to Android, same when I was new to WP. My friend had a steep learning curve to climb until she understood her new iPhone. IMHO, that has absolutely nothing to do with bad intuition, but only with the fact that she was new to the iWirld.

    I had to look up a few things about the Surface RT - not because I was completely helpless, but because I wanted to get familiar with everything about it.
    04-13-2013 12:31 PM
  5. pulkit10's Avatar
    Now if he understood that, he wouldn't be trolling on this forum, would he?

    The additional keyboard and access to real office makes the Surface RT a better option than the iPad. Unless you want to play the latest cutesy game...which isn't a priority for me.
    04-13-2013 04:08 PM
  6. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    And the Apple App store is horrible, it needs work. There are some really good apps, good luck finding them though.
    You have your opinion, I respect that, but you're in an extremely small minority there who thinks that. Try searching for 'Facebook' on the Windows Phone store, you'll see some 20 different apps; all garbage.
    04-13-2013 04:16 PM
  7. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    Now if he understood that, he wouldn't be trolling on this forum, would he?

    The additional keyboard and access to real office makes the Surface RT a better option than the iPad. Unless you want to play the latest cutesy game...which isn't a priority for me.
    The keyboard comes free with Surface? Because there are tons of keyboards for the iPad too. But iPad doesn't have Office I'll give you that, if typing documents on a 10-inch tablet is your thing.
    04-13-2013 04:17 PM
  8. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    A Platform doesn't need 250k apps. .
    Actually it does. It's what has propelled iOS and Android to the top and it's the single biggest hinderance in the way of Windows Phone and RT gaining any momentum. Go to Windows Phone.com and see the very big '130,000' apps sign. Tell Microsoft it's a meaningless number.
    04-13-2013 04:18 PM
  9. Luminatic's Avatar
    the platform MIGHT Need more apps to gain more market share, but the individual user might not need them. I, for example, rarely play games, and if I do so, it happens during train trips, where my three or four installed games are good enough to waste 10 minutes or so. And no, I don't feel the need to always have the newest and the latest, I guess I'm past that age. ;-) To me, my main criteria for a tablet/convertible was: Being able to type word docs comfortabely even if for a longer time,, being able to work on my Excel Sheets sometimes, surfing the web, a travel-friendly size, an USB port to directly transfer pics and music between tablet and phone or camera without any additional adapters needed. I tried out several devices, and th Surface RT worked best or me. And as I'm not the type of Person who has "I want to belong to a majority" or "I'll take what my friends have" in her criteria list, I'm happy with what I went.
    Furthermore, I really, really prefer the Windows RT platform to iOS and to Android, the latter two feel too how shall I put it, clunky.

    IMHO, apps on a tablet are less important than on a phone, reason for my opinion: A lot of things that are handeled by an app can comfortabely be done on the browser, especially on a tablet. I'd rather have 10 IE favourites than 10 apps.
    04-14-2013 02:58 AM
  10. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    the platform MIGHT Need more apps to gain more market share, but the individual user might not need them. I, for example, rarely play games, and if I do so, it happens during train trips, where my three or four installed games are good enough to waste 10 minutes or so. And no, I don't feel the need to always have the newest and the latest, I guess I'm past that age. ;-) To me, my main criteria for a tablet/convertible was: Being able to type word docs comfortabely even if for a longer time,, being able to work on my Excel Sheets sometimes, surfing the web, a travel-friendly size, an USB port to directly transfer pics and music between tablet and phone or camera without any additional adapters needed. I tried out several devices, and th Surface RT worked best or me. And as I'm not the type of Person who has "I want to belong to a majority" or "I'll take what my friends have" in her criteria list, I'm happy with what I went.
    Furthermore, I really, really prefer the Windows RT platform to iOS and to Android, the latter two feel too how shall I put it, clunky.

    IMHO, apps on a tablet are less important than on a phone, reason for my opinion: A lot of things that are handeled by an app can comfortabely be done on the browser, especially on a tablet. I'd rather have 10 IE favourites than 10 apps.
    But those 10 favourites won't give you notifications. Apps will do that. If you get a message on Twitter, an app will notify you of that. Otherwise you'll have to open Twitter.com again and again and see if there's a notification or not.
    04-14-2013 04:06 AM
  11. Luminatic's Avatar
    You might not understand that, but actually I dislike too many notifications from too many places, they stress me out as more often than not,they give me the feeling if having to check them instead of wanting that. Even the notification light on my old HTC wildfire made me nervous! So, I would be one of those persons who would switch off the notifications and actively go and check the contents I'm interested in when I want and not when my device tells me to. Therefore, I'm happy with my favourites.

    Understand me or not, but instant notification is not an advantage to everybody.
    GSOgymrat likes this.
    04-14-2013 04:48 AM
  12. martinmc78's Avatar
    You have your opinion, I respect that, but you're in an extremely small minority there who thinks that. Try searching for 'Facebook' on the Windows Phone store, you'll see some 20 different apps; all garbage.
    Sorry but this discussion is supposed to be about Real world experience surface rt vs iPad. Seeing as you have already admitted in a previous post that you don't own a tablet what can you contribute to this discussion? All you have managed to do is steer the discussion into how you think an apple product is better without even having used the product yourself.
    blackprince and LanunReviews like this.
    04-14-2013 04:59 AM
  13. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    Sorry but this discussion is supposed to be about Real world experience surface rt vs iPad. Seeing as you have already admitted in a previous post that you don't own a tablet what can you contribute to this discussion? All you have managed to do is steer the discussion into how you think an apple product is better without even having used the product yourself.
    I'm also talking about 'real world' here, not 'dream world'. And 'not own' doesn't mean 'not used'. Not owning has nothing to do it. I've spent enough time with both products.
    04-14-2013 05:25 AM
  14. michfan's Avatar
    But those 10 favourites won't give you notifications. Apps will do that. If you get a message on Twitter, an app will notify you of that. Otherwise you'll have to open Twitter.com again and again and see if there's a notification or not.
    Huh, am I just imagining things when Messaging notifies me if I get a new message, or when Xbox Smartglass notifies me if I'm signed onto an Xbox? How much attention do you think my kids really pay to all the stupid notices they get from their iPad apps? We get it, you love your sound engine, 250,000 apps and app notifications. Accept that we've outgrown our iPads and prefer Surface. Whereas you don't own a Surface, most if not all of us own/owned iPads and speak from a lot of experience with both tablets.
    04-14-2013 06:22 AM
  15. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    Huh, am I just imagining things when Messaging notifies me if I get a new message, or when Xbox Smartglass notifies me if I'm signed onto an Xbox? How much attention do you think my kids really pay to all the stupid notices they get from their iPad apps? We get it, you love your sound engine, 250,000 apps and app notifications. Accept that we've outgrown our iPads and prefer Surface. Whereas you don't own a Surface, most if not all of us own/owned iPads and speak from a lot of experience with both tablets.
    Look if you can't listen to the other side of the story then stop complaining and come up with a better argument. I thought this thread is to compare which is better; not a thread where we circlejerk about the Surface RT.
    04-14-2013 09:03 AM
  16. ChMar's Avatar
    Look if you can't listen to the other side of the story then stop complaining and come up with a better argument. I thought this thread is to compare which is better; not a thread where we circlejerk about the Surface RT.
    Yes but the thread was supposed to be about real life experience. In the sense that you compare those 2 products(they are complete products not just OSs) by the way they are used one against the other in practice(not how one would use of other speculations). If this thread degenerates to a point where apple is so great we get no where.

    Comparing real life experiences while subjective by nature is more to the earth and appropriate than comparing some number out of context(like resolution and number of apps) which beside evangelists of the OSs in question no one cares.

    iPad has great ppi and resolution. Is it the best solution? No of course not, I won't sell my tv to watch movies on my ipad Do document look better? do web pages look better? that's subjective and real case examples from people can make others judge from them self.

    Same for the number of apps. No one uses anymore throw the dice, ifart, flip coin and that sort of apps. Comparing numbers is out of context and pointless in most cases as it's not a comparison of real life cases that people report. Its more an what if scenario and those scenarios go no where.

    So please stick to real life examples not if cases or out of context number comparison. Better arguments do not mean comparing numbers mindlessly or what if scenarios that are not common or relevant to day to day uses of those devices.
    HeyCori and LanunReviews like this.
    04-14-2013 09:15 AM
  17. Dratwister's Avatar
    I'll go for a wedding foto trips with my friends for some days. She bride is basically a Apple fan, she's using a iPhone5, a Macbook and an iMac, now she's considering a mini iPad, but she's struggling with my surface RT and she asked if she could use my surface on this trip to test it out. I said yes.

    Of course I'll recommend her the ipad so she can get a unified UX throughout her products. But well, just to see if the surface can get her interest, like many of my friends did too after looking at my surface.
    04-14-2013 09:23 AM
  18. GSOgymrat's Avatar
    I have both Surface RT and iPad. Familiarity is more relevant than "intuition." How do you close a program on an iPad? You double click the home button, hold on the program you want to close until a red minus symbol appears and then press that. On Windows 8 you swipe the screen from top to bottom. How is either of those procedures more intuitive to someone who is unfamiliar to computers? Similarly when I picked up a Android tablet I could not figure out how to start the internet browser. Apparently the app is called "Chrome." How was I "intuitively" supposed to know that? What does chrome have to do with the internet?

    I also feel that the number of apps available is much less important than having quality apps users want. When I first got an iPad I quickly realized that the vast majority of apps are fluff and variations of themselves. Type "photo" into the Apple app store and how many iPad apps come up? 16,076. How many apps do I need? One. Most people are not going to complain if Microsoft's app store doesn't have 500,000 apps but they WILL complain if it doesn't have the quality apps they want. Overall I prefer using my Surface to my iPad but I am disappointed every time I read books on my Surface because the reading apps on Surface SUCK compared to iPad, just like iPad not having native flash support is a repeated source of irritation.

    Returning to the purpose of this thread, the main reason I prefer Surface to iPad is because Surface allows me to carry a tablet and an ereader instead of a tablet, an ereader and a laptop. I could not get by just carrying my iPad because if I wanted to type something of any substance I wanted a keyboard. I still use USB devices such as flash drives, cameras, etc. I dislike cases for phones and tablets (making something you hold in one hand heavier and bulkier makes no sense to me) so I was always trying to find something with which to prop up the iPad and the kickstand on the Surface is a seemingly little feature that was a revelation when I started using it. Surface was exactly what I wanted-- a tablet that also has some laptop productivity.

    For example, I was at work and my boss wanted me to work on a project that involved incorporating some Word documents from different websites. The computers in my department use Windows XP and Word 2003 and I was having difficulty trying to use some of the online documents. Fortunately my Surface RT came with Word 2013 so I was able to crank out a 50 page report with my Touch Cover keyboard, email it to my boss and upload it to Skydrive for safe keeping. I would not have even attempted that on my iPad.
    04-14-2013 10:10 AM
  19. Luminatic's Avatar
    Good Explanation on the word "intuitive" when it comes to OS experience, I couldn't have explained it better (But I'm not a native English speaker, so I don't worry).
    For now, I only used my Surface at home - we're not allowed to bring our own gadgets to the office and connect them to our Network (Fear of data theft is too high, especially in Banks).

    But I'll take it to a holiday trip and will use it to feed my People left at home with photos and travelling reports. The type cover will be very useful for that.

    In a way, my Surface RT is, for the Moment, more like a netbook replacement than a tablet to me. This might change when I'm back home from my holiday and show all my Pictures to Family and friends. (Sorry for using so many capitals, autocorrect is switched to german and I'm too lazy to change it)
    04-14-2013 11:35 AM
  20. someoneinwa's Avatar
    GSOgymrat:
    Thank you for this real world example. I have enjoyed all of the similar examples. While I have enjoyed the civil debate generated by my report on a recent work experience, it does seem that someone was trying to hijack the thread for yet another Apple is better thread. Apple is a great company, founded by a visionary, quirky, egomaniacal genius, that makes attractive, popular and expensive products. I don't begrudge Apple anything and I know many Apple users like the frequent poster here who are quite devoted to the company. Good for them. The purpose of my OP was to share how the more beleaguered Surface RT is actually quite capable in real work situations, and in the instance I reported, offered me greater efficiency than my colleague with an iPad. My second post in this thread about a rather symbiotic relationship between my RT and my Lumia was offered in the spirit of that same real world example.

    Now, if there is a thread here about how many apps are required for a phone OS to be considered successful, please point me there. I think I want to join that debate.
    04-14-2013 11:53 AM
  21. NickA's Avatar
    You have your opinion, I respect that, but you're in an extremely small minority there who thinks that. Try searching for 'Facebook' on the Windows Phone store, you'll see some 20 different apps; all garbage.
    The biggest issue for me with the Windows Phone Store, is how some developers use actual trademarked names. I saw an app call "CNN" the other day. I'm not sure how they are able to get away with that.

    Actually it does. It's what has propelled iOS and Android to the top and it's the single biggest hinderance in the way of Windows Phone and RT gaining any momentum. Go to Windows Phone.com and see the very big '130,000' apps sign. Tell Microsoft it's a meaningless number.
    My quote in context was that a platform doesn't need 250k apps to succeed, just that 1 app that 1 person is looking for. MS could have 130k apps, but if someone is looking for Instagram it doesn't matter. If there are a million people who would buy a Windows 8 Phone if it had Instagram, then those other 129,999 apps are meaningless to those 1 million people.
    04-14-2013 07:18 PM
  22. NickA's Avatar
    Now, if there is a thread here about how many apps are required for a phone OS to be considered successful, please point me there. I think I want to join that debate.


    FYI: Threads get derailed sometimes, that's how a forum works. It's called a discussion, and there is some real good discussion going on here right now. This is one of the few threads I have seen that hasn't turned in to "my <insert OS/device here> is better than your <insert derogatory remark here>" type of thread.
    04-14-2013 07:21 PM
  23. michfan's Avatar
    iPad in my office: EIS won't allow iPad to access WiFi unless it is a company-provided device
    Surface in my office: Connect to WiFi, enter ID and password, good to go

    iPad when traveling: need to e-mail myself any files that I may want to use, due to company limit on email file size there are many files I can't bring, need to use "Office compatible" apps that don't work seamlessly
    Surface when traveling: Load up files on micro SD card and/or bring USB stick. Native Office support works perfectly. Charges my cell phone via USB if needed.

    iPad at customer locations: Rarely able to use company WiFi. Need to bring laptop to drive presentations and use large files that exceeded company limit for emails.
    Surface at customer locations: No problems connecting to WiFi. No need to bring laptop, hooks up to projector and runs native ppt. Plug in USB hub and have multiple USB sticks, mouse and a remote control all working at once, in addition to Bluetooth keyboard.

    I was in a meeting where the laptop being used crapped out. Plenty of tablets in the room -- iPad, Android and me the lone Surface. I was the only one who could step in and run the meeting from my tablet. One Android owner muttered at a break that he could do the same with his tablet, when I invited him to take over he wasn't interested in trying.
    04-14-2013 07:50 PM
  24. dgr_874's Avatar
    iPad in my office: EIS won't allow iPad to access WiFi unless it is a company-provided device
    Surface in my office: Connect to WiFi, enter ID and password, good to go

    iPad when traveling: need to e-mail myself any files that I may want to use, due to company limit on email file size there are many files I can't bring, need to use "Office compatible" apps that don't work seamlessly
    Surface when traveling: Load up files on micro SD card and/or bring USB stick. Native Office support works perfectly. Charges my cell phone via USB if needed.

    iPad at customer locations: Rarely able to use company WiFi. Need to bring laptop to drive presentations and use large files that exceeded company limit for emails.
    Surface at customer locations: No problems connecting to WiFi. No need to bring laptop, hooks up to projector and runs native ppt. Plug in USB hub and have multiple USB sticks, mouse and a remote control all working at once, in addition to Bluetooth keyboard.

    I was in a meeting where the laptop being used crapped out. Plenty of tablets in the room -- iPad, Android and me the lone Surface. I was the only one who could step in and run the meeting from my tablet. One Android owner muttered at a break that he could do the same with his tablet, when I invited him to take over he wasn't interested in trying.
    So what you are saying is that its a better device for work. I think most people would agree that if you stay in the Microsoft ecosystem, work is a lot easier to get done. Most people only used ipads for work because it was the only high quality device out there, not because it ran Microsoft apps better than anything else. What those people found out after buying an ipad, was that it was far and away better for consuming information than it was for creating it. So while they grudgingly used it for creation, they found a lot of joy in the consumption side of it. The surface has the creation side nailed down pretty well. Office on the go is a great product, no question. But, its failing on the consumption part. Xbox music is a disaster, Windows RT app store is sluggish at best, etc. Microsoft has to step up the consumption side of the house or it wont be successful in my opinion.
    GSOgymrat likes this.
    04-15-2013 02:31 AM
  25. GSOgymrat's Avatar
    The surface has the creation side nailed down pretty well. Office on the go is a great product, no question. But, its failing on the consumption part. Xbox music is a disaster, Windows RT app store is sluggish at best, etc. Microsoft has to step up the consumption side of the house or it wont be successful in my opinion.
    You make a good point. Xbox Music is certainly Microsoft's fault. Unfortunately part of the problem has been the apps produced by other companies, or not produced, and I don't know how much influence Microsoft has with these app developers. As I mentioned before, the reading apps produced by Barnes and Noble and Amazon are nothing like for Apple and Android. It is not enough for companies to make an app for Windows 8/RT or WP, it needs to be as good as the apps for the competition.
    04-15-2013 08:14 AM
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