05-27-2014 12:20 PM
50 12
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  1. jayblazer's Avatar
    Yikes I hope that is not my experience. Since I just ordered it.
    xandros9 likes this.
    03-25-2014 06:06 PM
  2. neo158's Avatar
    Lack of apps on Windows RT can be rectified by developers choosing Windows RT and Windows 8 as the target platforms when building their apps, so I place the blame squarely on developers.

    OP, I have had very few issues with Windows RT. Like any Windows device it requires updates and Windows RT seems to require less updates than Windows 8 in most cases so that isn't an issue, the Modern UI version of IE11 can be a little slow and refuses to go back when swiping sometimes but it's not been unstable for me. The only two major issues I've had, I'm using a 1st gen Surface, is that apps are sometimes slow to load and if the system drops to 1GB or lower on the internal disk you can experience erratic performance. If you can put up with those issues then a Windows RT device is as enjoyable to use as a full Windows 8 device. There's also a benefit to using a Windows RT device and that's battery life which is generally 8-10 hours instead of the pathetic, carry your charger around with you 4-5 hours you get from a full Windows 8 device like Surface Pro.
    03-25-2014 06:40 PM
  3. RTGent's Avatar
    FWIW, I'm on my second RT. I had returned my first RT after a very generous trial period over the 2012 holidays (from November through 31 Jan 2013) thinking that I'd wait for the Pro. When the Pro came out, I got it. To my surprise, I decided to return it and get another RT. I decided that I valued the RT's lower weight and battery life and found that most of my tablet use is for browsing and light work for which Office -especially OneNote and Word, and RT apps meet 90 percent of my mobile computing needs. The only thing I changed is that I got the type keyboard with the second RT. My next purchase will be a backlit touch keyboard. Upon reflection, low weight and battery life have always been my priorities when it comes to mobile computing. I always splurged on the lightest Sony Vaios, even getting a mostly-useless Vaio P which I still use for a very limited purpose.

    That is an excellent video that T Moore posted. I'd just note that the basic Xbox music app also plays my music collection in the background and it even keeps playing when the RT goes to sleep. That is pretty Epic!
    03-25-2014 08:04 PM
  4. psychotron's Avatar
    I don't have a Surface, but I do have a Windows tablet (DV8 Pro) and after having owned an iPad, Samsung Tab 7 and Nexus 7 there is no way in hell I would ever go back to any of those after getting this. Can't say that I'd go for an RT personally, but you simply can't beat the experience of a tablet running full blown Windows 8.
    calfee20 likes this.
    03-25-2014 08:51 PM
  5. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Lack of apps on Windows RT can be rectified by developers choosing Windows RT and Windows 8 as the target platforms when building their apps, so I place the blame squarely on developers.
    That's an overly simplistic view of what it takes to develop an application for Windows RT. Not all underlying APIs are identical between Windows 8 and Windows RT.
    03-26-2014 09:29 AM
  6. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Maybe not on your DV8P I guess, but IE11 certainly is a POS on my Surface RT. Possibly the worst browser I have ever used and easily the most frustrating. It's unstable and going "back" is an exercise in patience, when it works at all.
    That's not my experience. It used to be, but I haven't had a problem with IE in a few months.

    Yikes I hope that is not my experience. Since I just ordered it.
    8.1 update 1, when I used the leaked version, made IE 11 really good.
    03-26-2014 10:08 AM
  7. prlundberg's Avatar
    That's not my experience. It used to be, but I haven't had a problem with IE in a few months.
    8.1 update 1, when I used the leaked version, made IE 11 really good.
    Experiences vary, but there are still plenty of complaints out there on the support forums. I have improved mine greatly by using enabling tracking protection lists, but that removes some functionality on sites like ESPN and I often have to toggle it on and off. Regardless, you did experience significant issues, and due to it being RT you had no options available to rectify it where as in Android or full Windows you would have had numerous options. The reason I keep harping on this is because of all the things to screw up on a tablet, the browser is the most important.
    03-26-2014 10:53 AM
  8. RTGent's Avatar
    That's not my experience. It used to be, but I haven't had a problem with IE in a few months.
    Same here. I use IE extensively, virtually every day, and it works beautifully: I wouldn't otherwise because I have plenty of options. But, with plenty of experience/learning, and an excellent touch screen, I can navigate, multi-tab, and multi-task efficiently and enjoyably.
    03-26-2014 10:56 AM
  9. reversalagent's Avatar
    I actually looked at the eBay site and it is quite tempting to get one of the Pro versions for that price. Have any of you had experience with refurbished hardware from here?

    Also, it appears to be the first gen Pro. Both versions (v1 and v2) of the keyboard will work with this correct?
    03-26-2014 12:11 PM
  10. backfat1's Avatar
    I've given an iPad 1, Samsung Chromebook & Surface RT a fair amount of time for each being a daily driver. In terms of value, definitely feel like the Surface RT wins in the category. Chromebooks are fine for web browsing, but that's about it - I've had a fair amount of frustration with their "offline" functionality, especially related to Google Drive's Office alternatives. Printing on the Chromebook is difficult unless you are familiar with Google's Cloud Print. I've also noticed a steep decline in battery life over it's lifespan. Combined with a cheap build quality, you get what you pay for. Not saying that it's a horrible machine, but I think it's a passable device for the average user only if they simply want to browse the web. If you want absolutely anything more than that, I'd steer away from those. The iPad 1 still has a spectacular battery and is my entertainment driver as I use it to push Netflix out to a TV. However, even combined with a Bluetooth keyboard I never felt like I could get real work done without going over to a different machine. My browser constantly crashes, but I hope a device with better specs (iPad 2) would age more gracefully.

    Relative to the Chromebook, my Surface has provided a pain-free browsing experience. App availability hasn't been an issue (not a gamer, though) as the browser or built-in programs have remedied many of my own needs. Using the split-pane feature is pretty cool, and now I feel like it would be difficult to use a tablet without a USB port of some kind. No issues ever printing, only thing I really miss is the lack of browser add-ons in IE, but some of these problems can be remedied through apps. After being a Surface RT user for a few months, I can honestly say it was surely worth the investment. If you don't mind a smaller screen, I'd echo the comments above about the DV8P - fantastic device with 8.1.
    03-26-2014 12:22 PM
  11. CHIP72's Avatar
    Somewhat ironically relative to backfat1, my browsing experience on the Surface RT (1st generation) has been distinctly worse than it has been on my Samsung Series 3 chromebook. I do concur with the battery life on the iPad 2 being really, really good, better than the Surface RT (and chromebook) IMO, particularly in standby mode.


    Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums
    03-26-2014 06:00 PM
  12. CHIP72's Avatar
    Lack of apps on Windows RT can be rectified by developers choosing Windows RT and Windows 8 as the target platforms when building their apps, so I place the blame squarely on developers.

    OP, I have had very few issues with Windows RT. Like any Windows device it requires updates and Windows RT seems to require less updates than Windows 8 in most cases so that isn't an issue, the Modern UI version of IE11 can be a little slow and refuses to go back when swiping sometimes but it's not been unstable for me. The only two major issues I've had, I'm using a 1st gen Surface, is that apps are sometimes slow to load and if the system drops to 1GB or lower on the internal disk you can experience erratic performance. If you can put up with those issues then a Windows RT device is as enjoyable to use as a full Windows 8 device. There's also a benefit to using a Windows RT device and that's battery life which is generally 8-10 hours instead of the pathetic, carry your charger around with you 4-5 hours you get from a full Windows 8 device like Surface Pro.
    The lack of apps on Windows RT (and Windows 8 in "mobile" mode) can be rectified by people buying the devices. That's not on developers.

    As far as updates, Windows RT IMO requires A LOT of updates, maybe somewhat fewer than Windows 8, but certainly a lot more than iOS, Android, or any other mobile OS I've used, including WP8 (which I like a lot better than Windows RT).


    Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums
    03-26-2014 06:02 PM
  13. ticois2nice's Avatar
    I actually looked at the eBay site and it is quite tempting to get one of the Pro versions for that price. Have any of you had experience with refurbished hardware from here?

    Also, it appears to be the first gen Pro. Both versions (v1 and v2) of the keyboard will work with this correct?
    I received my refurbished pro this Tuesday but so far so good. I really love how fast and smooth it is. The pen stylus works great plus I bought the square trade extended warranty for 2 years so I really don't have any worries about it being a refurbished tablet and honestly you will never know it is refurbished. I highly recommend it for the price and the touch cover keyboard is only 29.00 when you buy the pro surface
    03-26-2014 07:05 PM
  14. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    The lack of apps on Windows RT (and Windows 8 in "mobile" mode) can be rectified by people buying the devices. That's not on developers.
    Circular logic. People won't buy devices for which there are no apps. Developers won't develop for a platform that has no customers.

    Buying devices is extremely passive and does NOT guarantee that apps will follow.

    Who benefits the most from Windows RT being successful? Hint: it's not consumers nor developers. Microsoft has the most to gain and the most to lose. They need to be providing incentives to key developers to produce apps for RT... and not just throw money at them but provide guidance and assistance so that the apps showcase RT.
    psychotron likes this.
    03-26-2014 07:14 PM
  15. CHIP72's Avatar
    Let me be more clear with what I'm saying - if Windows 8 had greater adoption and/or was more positively received, then more developers would be creating apps for Windows 8 mobile mode/Windows RT. Likewise, if Windows RT offered some distinct advantages over Windows 8 in terms of speed, ease of use, and cost, then Windows RT would provide a more viable proposition alternative to Windows 8. IMO, based on using and owning Windows 8, Windows RT, and iOS tablet devices, it currently does not. (I include iOS because Windows RT is the most comparable OS for a "light" tablet OS device and iOS is almost definitely the most popular OS on higher end, higher cost tablets.)


    Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums
    03-28-2014 04:14 PM
  16. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Let me be more clear with what I'm saying - if Windows 8 had greater adoption and/or was more positively received, then more developers would be creating apps for Windows 8 mobile mode/Windows RT. Likewise, if Windows RT offered some distinct advantages over Windows 8 in terms of speed, ease of use, and cost, then Windows RT would provide a more viable proposition alternative to Windows 8. IMO, based on using and owning Windows 8, Windows RT, and iOS tablet devices, it currently does not. (I include iOS because Windows RT is the most comparable OS for a "light" tablet OS device and iOS is almost definitely the most popular OS on higher end, higher cost tablets.)


    Sent from my iPhone using WPCentral Forums
    You were sufficiently clear the first time. I simply disagree.
    03-28-2014 05:08 PM
  17. 2tomtom's Avatar
    Surface over iPad?

    The answer is in the question....
    neo158 likes this.
    03-28-2014 05:28 PM
  18. RTGent's Avatar
    Minority position: I don't give a hoot about evermore apps. The RT is my laptop substitute and I don't have any apps on my Portege. I enjoy and value the 30-or-so post-purchase apps I have, and don't need thousands more. I'd be happy with Microsoft rewarding improvements in current apps.
    neo158 and xandros9 like this.
    03-28-2014 11:59 PM
  19. jayblazer's Avatar
    Well so far I am liking the surface tablet. I did not receive my keyboard yet so I can't comment on that but I can say this is much more capable then my iPad was. But I do like the form of the iPad better. It is nice being able to look at videos and things posted on Facebook without having to launch the app version. It is not nearly as intuitive to use as an iPad. Luckily I'm pretty savvy at these things. Overall I'm happy with it.
    backfat1 likes this.
    03-29-2014 10:50 AM
  20. TrueMetalGeek's Avatar
    There are less apps however you DO NOT NEED APPS for many of the things you do on the Surface.

    I'm still using the first generation Surface RT and I don't even bother using some of the APPS like Hulu, even tho that app is good and all, because the stock web browser can open Hulu and play embedded videos just fine as you can on a PC or Laptop.

    Android can't do that and I believe that the iPad can not either. They NEED the apps to use those services.

    The RT is also laid out just like the PC, can do remote desktop to my home PC and other things that separate it from the Android and iPad's which are just glorified smart phones.

    I'd like to see Microsoft work the RT platform into the phones then their phones would kick serious ****.
    04-11-2014 10:02 AM
  21. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    There are less apps however you DO NOT NEED APPS for many of the things you do on the Surface.

    I'm still using the first generation Surface RT and I don't even bother using some of the APPS like Hulu, even tho that app is good and all, because the stock web browser can open Hulu and play embedded videos just fine as you can on a PC or Laptop.

    Android can't do that and I believe that the iPad can not either. They NEED the apps to use those services.

    The RT is also laid out just like the PC, can do remote desktop to my home PC and other things that separate it from the Android and iPad's which are just glorified smart phones.

    I'd like to see Microsoft work the RT platform into the phones then their phones would kick serious ****.
    Using Hulu as an example is not really a good example because there is a Hulu app for RT.

    And while technically you can use IE to visit a site directly, it doesn't always format the site well for touch navigation. IE favorites/bookmarks is a poor way to navigate between sites/services. If a site bookmark is saved as a live tile, that makes things a little bit better but because of the way that IE deals with those tiles, subsequent taps of that tile will open a new tab in the browser.

    And lastly, "apps as mobile front-ends to websites" are only a small fraction of the apps available in iOS and Android markets.

    I love the RT platform, in spite of the monthly frustration with botched Microsoft updates, and while there are sometimes workarounds for the lack of apps, why should we settle for that?
    04-11-2014 10:26 AM
  22. prlundberg's Avatar
    And while technically you can use IE to visit a site directly, it doesn't always format the site well for touch navigation.
    This is important. The only good touch website I go to on a regular basis is MSN. I don't really like the content all that much, but it works so well with touch it's become my go-to news site.

    Last year I figured we'd start to see a lot more sites like that. Now I'm starting to wonder if it will catch on, because I haven't come across any others.
    04-11-2014 12:39 PM
  23. Greywolf1967's Avatar
    Maybe not on your DV8P I guess, but IE11 certainly is a POS on my Surface RT. Possibly the worst browser I have ever used and easily the most frustrating. It's unstable and going "back" is an exercise in patience, when it works at all.
    IE 11 on my Surface RT works a treat !!! I have never had it crash or freeze. If I were to say anything about it is on facebook you can not play Bejeweled Blitz, it runs awful slow.

    Who knows maybe someday a version of chrome could come out.

    If it wasn't so locked maybe Opera could be developed....that was one mobile browser that ran awesome on my Old HTC HD2.
    04-11-2014 02:34 PM
  24. wrm1's Avatar
    I have had my surface rt for about 6 months now and I love it. I've only found a few things that I miss from a regular machine...
    1) Java. I don't know why Microsoft has no solution for this in the store. It really is rather essential when it comes
    to the internet.
    2) Lack of Microsoft apps. Microsoft released the Office Remote a while ago...and the piece on the computer side is
    a downloadable .exe! Microsoft has a really bad habit of doing that actually. Why? I really don't know.

    It would be great to be able to run a Virtual Machine on my surface rt for those few times that I need to run an exe or a website built with java. Overall though, I adore this thing. Battery life is amazing and the form factor is just about perfect.
    05-24-2014 11:25 PM
  25. RajeevT's Avatar
    Java is one of the worst browser plugins by far in terms of security and I'm glad I haven't needed to use any sites that require it for ages now. I don't think WinRT will ever support Java so you can forget about it. The closest you can get is if you have a jailbroken Windows RT 8.0 device and use IKVM, which is a Java VM implemented in .NET.
    rkarolak likes this.
    05-27-2014 12:20 PM
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