Surface over iPad 2

[xandros9]

I'll second the recommendation of a full Windows tablet. They now cost about the same as RT and you aren't restricted to IE11, which is a POS. RT is every bit as complex and difficult to manage as full Windows while giving up a lot of flexibility and power.

I have spent most of the past year being a proponent of RT. But after countless hours of frustration I've given up. I wouldn't recommend RT to anybody at this point, especially somebody who mainly wants to use it as a web browser. For just a bit more you can step up to the Dell Venue Pro, that is if an 8" screen is big enough for you. That would be my choice if I were buying a new Windows tablet today.

A full windows tablet is becoming more compelling at time goes on. I have a DV8P
but IE 11 isn't a POS. but besides that, full windows gives you much more freedom.

 

[dakranii]

I'll second the recommendation of a full Windows tablet. They now cost about the same as RT and you aren't restricted to IE11, which is a POS. RT is every bit as complex and difficult to manage as full Windows while giving up a lot of flexibility and power.

I have spent most of the past year being a proponent of RT. But after countless hours of frustration I've given up. I wouldn't recommend RT to anybody at this point, especially somebody who mainly wants to use it as a web browser. For just a bit more you can step up to the Dell Venue Pro, that is if an 8" screen is big enough for you. That would be my choice if I were buying a new Windows tablet today.

I think I would agree to a point. I'd probably get full W8 now, but I bought my Surface RT the day it was available for $599, stretching my budget. I considered the full W8 tablets available (I think an Acer or Asus one, and a Samsung one that places had a display of but none for sale). I've been happy with my RT and don't regret the purchase. But there are many more options available today than there were then. I do like the form-factor of the Surface the best, so maybe I'd go Pro at this point. But it's the OS that's the main selling point, hardware is secondary to me.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

I'm not a fan of the Chromebook's or Android/Google in general so I'll reserve comment there as that may work for some, but when it comes down to bang for your buck, I still can't see why the vast majority don't see the pure value in the Surface/Windows/Windows Phone ecosystem.

Because it's not one ecosystem, but three. The software available for Windows RT devices is still woefully inadequate for various use cases. If you are able to do everything that you need and want to do with the software currently available then obviously the Surface is a no-brainer.

It's ironic. Those times that I can make use of the hardware capabilities of the Surface 2 that are unique to it (that the iPad 4 doesn't have) there is no software to accomplish the task. Case in point, I have a terrific little Samson USB microphone and wanted a portable podcasting rig. The Surface 2 with multiple window capability would be terrific. Except there's no software available to do that.

In contrast, there are professional apps like Boss Jock Studio for the iPad. But the inability to have more than one app visible on the screen is a negative.

There are many more instances where missing apps have become a constant irritation. And it's not like I MUST HAVE a particular app. I'd be delighted to have an app that performs the same function even if it means learning something new.

nvAlt for OSX, Notesy/Writeroom for iOS, ResophNotes for Windows.... NOTHING for Windows RT. I'm stuck with a substandard kludge of Dropbox and CodeWriter.

It's frustrating because if it weren't for the app situation the Surface would be THE tablet for me.

The iPad is a great device, obviously, it can do a lot of stuff. But it can't do the stuff I need a tablet to do as well as a Surface. And I agree, it does feel like stepping into the OS stone age. The boring app icons that just sit there telling me nothing, going to the home screen to double tap the button to swipe up to close an app vs just swiping down from inside the app, trying and forgetting I can't have programs side-by-side...

I'm about function, not style. I don't spend time gazing at icons but in the apps themselves so I'm not stirred by live tiles (which I disable to preserve battery life) over icons. I DO like the start screen but it's not something that makes me prefer the Surface over the iPad.

 

[bdesm]

Go for a Dell Venue Pro 8.

 

[prlundberg]

I have a DV8P
but IE 11 isn't a POS.

Maybe not on your DV8P I guess, but IE11 certainly is a POS on my Surface RT. Possibly the worst browser I have ever used and easily the most frustrating. It's unstable and going "back" is an exercise in patience, when it works at all.

 

[jayblazer]

Yikes I hope that is not my experience. Since I just ordered it.

 

[neo158]

Lack of apps on Windows RT can be rectified by developers choosing Windows RT and Windows 8 as the target platforms when building their apps, so I place the blame squarely on developers.

OP, I have had very few issues with Windows RT. Like any Windows device it requires updates and Windows RT seems to require less updates than Windows 8 in most cases so that isn't an issue, the Modern UI version of IE11 can be a little slow and refuses to go back when swiping sometimes but it's not been unstable for me. The only two major issues I've had, I'm using a 1st gen Surface, is that apps are sometimes slow to load and if the system drops to 1GB or lower on the internal disk you can experience erratic performance. If you can put up with those issues then a Windows RT device is as enjoyable to use as a full Windows 8 device. There's also a benefit to using a Windows RT device and that's battery life which is generally 8-10 hours instead of the pathetic, carry your charger around with you 4-5 hours you get from a full Windows 8 device like Surface Pro.

 

[RTGent]

FWIW, I'm on my second RT. I had returned my first RT after a very generous trial period over the 2012 holidays (from November through 31 Jan 2013) thinking that I'd wait for the Pro. When the Pro came out, I got it. To my surprise, I decided to return it and get another RT. I decided that I valued the RT's lower weight and battery life and found that most of my tablet use is for browsing and light work for which Office -especially OneNote and Word, and RT apps meet 90 percent of my mobile computing needs. The only thing I changed is that I got the type keyboard with the second RT. My next purchase will be a backlit touch keyboard. Upon reflection, low weight and battery life have always been my priorities when it comes to mobile computing. I always splurged on the lightest Sony Vaios, even getting a mostly-useless Vaio P which I still use for a very limited purpose.

That is an excellent video that T Moore posted. I'd just note that the basic Xbox music app also plays my music collection in the background and it even keeps playing when the RT goes to sleep. That is pretty Epic!

 

[psychotron]

I don't have a Surface, but I do have a Windows tablet (DV8 Pro) and after having owned an iPad, Samsung Tab 7 and Nexus 7 there is no way in hell I would ever go back to any of those after getting this. Can't say that I'd go for an RT personally, but you simply can't beat the experience of a tablet running full blown Windows 8.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

Lack of apps on Windows RT can be rectified by developers choosing Windows RT and Windows 8 as the target platforms when building their apps, so I place the blame squarely on developers.

That's an overly simplistic view of what it takes to develop an application for Windows RT. Not all underlying APIs are identical between Windows 8 and Windows RT.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Maybe not on your DV8P I guess, but IE11 certainly is a POS on my Surface RT. Possibly the worst browser I have ever used and easily the most frustrating. It's unstable and going "back" is an exercise in patience, when it works at all.

That's not my experience. It used to be, but I haven't had a problem with IE in a few months.

Yikes I hope that is not my experience. Since I just ordered it.

8.1 update 1, when I used the leaked version, made IE 11 really good.

 

[prlundberg]

That's not my experience. It used to be, but I haven't had a problem with IE in a few months.
8.1 update 1, when I used the leaked version, made IE 11 really good.

Experiences vary, but there are still plenty of complaints out there on the support forums. I have improved mine greatly by using enabling tracking protection lists, but that removes some functionality on sites like ESPN and I often have to toggle it on and off. Regardless, you did experience significant issues, and due to it being RT you had no options available to rectify it where as in Android or full Windows you would have had numerous options. The reason I keep harping on this is because of all the things to screw up on a tablet, the browser is the most important.

 

[RTGent]

That's not my experience. It used to be, but I haven't had a problem with IE in a few months.

Same here. I use IE extensively, virtually every day, and it works beautifully: I wouldn't otherwise because I have plenty of options. But, with plenty of experience/learning, and an excellent touch screen, I can navigate, multi-tab, and multi-task efficiently and enjoyably.

 

[reversalagent]

I actually looked at the eBay site and it is quite tempting to get one of the Pro versions for that price. Have any of you had experience with refurbished hardware from here?

Also, it appears to be the first gen Pro. Both versions (v1 and v2) of the keyboard will work with this correct?

 

[backfat1]

I've given an iPad 1, Samsung Chromebook & Surface RT a fair amount of time for each being a daily driver. In terms of value, definitely feel like the Surface RT wins in the category. Chromebooks are fine for web browsing, but that's about it - I've had a fair amount of frustration with their "offline" functionality, especially related to Google Drive's Office alternatives. Printing on the Chromebook is difficult unless you are familiar with Google's Cloud Print. I've also noticed a steep decline in battery life over it's lifespan. Combined with a cheap build quality, you get what you pay for. Not saying that it's a horrible machine, but I think it's a passable device for the average user only if they simply want to browse the web. If you want absolutely anything more than that, I'd steer away from those. The iPad 1 still has a spectacular battery and is my entertainment driver as I use it to push Netflix out to a TV. However, even combined with a Bluetooth keyboard I never felt like I could get real work done without going over to a different machine. My browser constantly crashes, but I hope a device with better specs (iPad 2) would age more gracefully.

Relative to the Chromebook, my Surface has provided a pain-free browsing experience. App availability hasn't been an issue (not a gamer, though) as the browser or built-in programs have remedied many of my own needs. Using the split-pane feature is pretty cool, and now I feel like it would be difficult to use a tablet without a USB port of some kind. No issues ever printing, only thing I really miss is the lack of browser add-ons in IE, but some of these problems can be remedied through apps. After being a Surface RT user for a few months, I can honestly say it was surely worth the investment. If you don't mind a smaller screen, I'd echo the comments above about the DV8P - fantastic device with 8.1.

 

[CHIP72]

Somewhat ironically relative to backfat1, my browsing experience on the Surface RT (1st generation) has been distinctly worse than it has been on my Samsung Series 3 chromebook. I do concur with the battery life on the iPad 2 being really, really good, better than the Surface RT (and chromebook) IMO, particularly in standby mode.


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[CHIP72]

Lack of apps on Windows RT can be rectified by developers choosing Windows RT and Windows 8 as the target platforms when building their apps, so I place the blame squarely on developers.

OP, I have had very few issues with Windows RT. Like any Windows device it requires updates and Windows RT seems to require less updates than Windows 8 in most cases so that isn't an issue, the Modern UI version of IE11 can be a little slow and refuses to go back when swiping sometimes but it's not been unstable for me. The only two major issues I've had, I'm using a 1st gen Surface, is that apps are sometimes slow to load and if the system drops to 1GB or lower on the internal disk you can experience erratic performance. If you can put up with those issues then a Windows RT device is as enjoyable to use as a full Windows 8 device. There's also a benefit to using a Windows RT device and that's battery life which is generally 8-10 hours instead of the pathetic, carry your charger around with you 4-5 hours you get from a full Windows 8 device like Surface Pro.

The lack of apps on Windows RT (and Windows 8 in "mobile" mode) can be rectified by people buying the devices. That's not on developers.

As far as updates, Windows RT IMO requires A LOT of updates, maybe somewhat fewer than Windows 8, but certainly a lot more than iOS, Android, or any other mobile OS I've used, including WP8 (which I like a lot better than Windows RT).


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[ticois2nice]

I actually looked at the eBay site and it is quite tempting to get one of the Pro versions for that price. Have any of you had experience with refurbished hardware from here?

Also, it appears to be the first gen Pro. Both versions (v1 and v2) of the keyboard will work with this correct?

I received my refurbished pro this Tuesday but so far so good. I really love how fast and smooth it is. The pen stylus works great plus I bought the square trade extended warranty for 2 years so I really don't have any worries about it being a refurbished tablet and honestly you will never know it is refurbished. I highly recommend it for the price and the touch cover keyboard is only 29.00 when you buy the pro surface

 

[WillysJeepMan]

The lack of apps on Windows RT (and Windows 8 in "mobile" mode) can be rectified by people buying the devices. That's not on developers.

Circular logic. People won't buy devices for which there are no apps. Developers won't develop for a platform that has no customers.

Buying devices is extremely passive and does NOT guarantee that apps will follow.

Who benefits the most from Windows RT being successful? Hint: it's not consumers nor developers. Microsoft has the most to gain and the most to lose. They need to be providing incentives to key developers to produce apps for RT... and not just throw money at them but provide guidance and assistance so that the apps showcase RT.

 

[CHIP72]

Let me be more clear with what I'm saying - if Windows 8 had greater adoption and/or was more positively received, then more developers would be creating apps for Windows 8 mobile mode/Windows RT. Likewise, if Windows RT offered some distinct advantages over Windows 8 in terms of speed, ease of use, and cost, then Windows RT would provide a more viable proposition alternative to Windows 8. IMO, based on using and owning Windows 8, Windows RT, and iOS tablet devices, it currently does not. (I include iOS because Windows RT is the most comparable OS for a "light" tablet OS device and iOS is almost definitely the most popular OS on higher end, higher cost tablets.)


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