Windows RT is dead?

[HeyCori]

A lot of people are too focused on having it one way or the other. This doesn't have to be a desktop versus metro battle. Maybe metro isn't finished evolving but the desktop is and having both options doesn't take away from the other. A fully functional metro-fied file manager doesn't take away from the desktop. Having metro Office doesn't make desktop Office useless. We're already living in a hybrid world where people can choose what works best for them. For example, I prefer desktop OneDrive over the metro app for several reasons. Being able to drop something in a folder is, IMO, way more convenient than using the upload feature in the metro app. Yet, I still prefer metro IE. I use the ESPN app instead of the website. Heck, I use the ESPN app even when I'm outputting to a second monitor. I check the weather using the metro app but I open photos using Windows Photo Viewer. These are true hybrid devices where both options work. I don't see the appeal of removing features that doesn't take away from the user experience.

The real question is, why does Windows RT need to exist when Windows 8 can do everything RT can but cheaper? I sold my Surface 2 and picked up a Encore 2 with Windows 8.1 w/Bing. So get this, the Encore 2 boots way faster. They're both 32GB devices but the Encore 2 has more available space. It's cheaper than the Surface 2 (both the 8" and 10" version are cheaper). And Bay Trail is pretty much on equal ground with the Tegra 4. You could get an Encore 2 10", a Bluetooth keyboard, a micro HDMI cable and a micro USB adapter and it's still cheaper than a Surface 2 without any accessories. That's crazy.

I can understand why people want a Surface 2. It has a nice 1080p screen, full size USB 3.0, kickstand, micro HDMI, Office 2013 instead of Office 365 and virus makers have pretty much ignored it. Those are all the reasons I got one. And that's fine if what you mostly want to do is consume media, take notes and use Office. And for a while there the Surface 2 was pretty much unchallenged in those regards. But now that I can get a full Windows 8 tablets, with all the software options of Windows RT, where does that leave RT? I still think RT has a future in schools and businesses since you're not going to wreck it with some random .exe. However, it's a hard sale as a consumer product because Windows 8 does it all and does it cheaper.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

Lol. But Windows RT does have desktop apps that you are clinging to like Word, Excel, Outlook, File explorer, CMD etc. Why?

Because Windows RT needs the desktop to function as an OS. In WinRT 9 they wont "remove it", they will hide it away but still use it for the things that require legit power rather than sandboxed "app" power.

The problem with Windows RT diehards saying "an app store in enough" dont release that Windows 8.1 has that very same app store + the biggest PROGRAM (real software) store of any platform (bigger than Android, iOS, OSX and Linux) called Win32.

Why have WinRT apps when you could have WinRT apps AND Win32 programs? For 2-3 extra hours of battery life? Are you actually using your tablet for 10 hours every day? If you are then god help you but the reality is that you proably use it for 5 hours a day or maybe less. So that difference in battery life is just pure marketing hype, as it always is.



Office for touch will be terrible compared to Office for Win32. Next.

Adobe CC is not available for the Windows store, unless you think Photoshop express is as powerful as Photoshop CC. Next.

Autodesk is not available for the Windows store. Neither is Lightroom, Fireworks, Visual studio, Chrome, Firefox, Audacity, Fraps, Steam, VMware, and so on. And they never will be. Sandboxing these apps into the Windows runtime will mean they will lose all the functionality they have and it will turn them into apps instead of programs people use every day for work.

So yes, we do and always will need Win32. "Full windows" as you call it. Because Windows runtime and Windows RT are built upon Win32. We don't need Windows runtime at all but its nice to have as an addition to Win32 software. Deciding to make an OS that can only run Windows Runtime apps instead of the millions of programs software developers have been working on since XP and earlier was the stupidest idea ever. *

* I didnt say vista because vista was amazing, and anyone who says otherwise is deluded as f***

Yes, right now it needs it. We don't have the few things that are on the desktop in Metro. Windows 9 will have those, and thus the need for the Windows 9 RT version to have a desktop will be gone. And according to everything we're hearing from reputable sources, that's exactly what's going to be happening.

I completely disagree, I have a surface RT 64G, I use it as a replacement for Windows XP, I have tweaked Windows RT 8.1 to go to the desktop, I use outlook, word, IE, basic internet access and Remote Desktop, for a Laptop replacement it has surpassed my expectation, I understand others want a tablet to do tablet things, but this is a hybrid device, it can be used as both, to remove the desktop would be suicide to the hybrid design, even in their keynotes they mentioned the market they were trying to design these for. I use the device as a tablet, and I use it as a laptop (Windows XP) replacement...

If Microsoft in Windows RT 8.2/9 removes the desktop, then they have destroyed the hybrid design they created the Surface RT/2 for... I understand everyone has their opinion this is my take on it...

They designed it to compete with the iPad. It is a hybrid device? No, it's a device whose OS hasn't fully matured, and as such still needs the desktop. Also, who is to say that you won't be able to do all of that with Windows 9 without a desktop?

I disagree, you would not create a tablet that can use a full functioning keyboard (touch or type), include office, if it was not meant to have a desktop experience?

I understand you have a right to your opinion, but this is my understanding watch the original surface rt keynote (Microsoft Surface - the new Windows 8 tablet -- Announcement Presentation (FULL) - YouTube) seems they are showing both in their design...



I agree to disagree, if you watch the keynote, they included office, they included a keyboard/mouse input, they talk about connecting to printers, they talk about long flights with watching movies and producing content. If it was just for a consumption device they would have never allowed a keyboard/mouse to interact, they created a hybrid device that can be a tablet and a laptop... I wanted a laptop/tablet replacement for my old Windows XP laptop, the surface RT 64G has surpassed my expectations, (came with office), I did not want to get a surface pro (run IE and get malware and viruses), I get the best of both worlds...

They were talking about keyboard and mouse, and how they're going to be first class citizens from what I watched. You don't need a desktop to use a mouse and keyboard. I use one all the time on my RT, and I don't go to the desktop for much other than Office.

I got your back John. I was under the impression that RT would be a scaled down version of Windows minus the .exe functions. Without any apps to offer, what's there to dissuade customers from getting an iPad or Android tablet?

From an Android side, we have the fact that Windows just works better. It also gets all the updates and has Office for free. From the iOS side, we get fixes more frequently, Office for free. We also have a better browser than either.

Neo suggested why have an ARM based tablet if desktop is a need. That's the point. Without the desktop, what does RT offer besides a dearth of apps?

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Better browser, free Office, consistent updates?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, desktop IE is a vital component that makes up for a lot of missing apps. You're right, you don't need desktop to have Office or file managers. But you can't have Outlook without it. Mail is a fine client but it is very rudimentary and not exactly enterprise-grade.

Without apps, RT doesn't have anything to compete against iOS or Android. The tipping point, what keeps them in the ball game, is desktop IE and Outlook. N-Trig or Wacom support would be a real game changer for the platform.

For now, but I'd be surprised if Metro Office didn't come with Outlook. Also, even Metro IE is better than the Android browser or Safari on iOS.

 

[John Steffes]

A lot of people are too focused on having it one way or the other. This doesn't have to be a desktop versus metro battle. Maybe metro isn't finished evolving but the desktop is and having both options doesn't take away from the other. A fully functional metro-fied file manager doesn't take away from the desktop. Having metro Office doesn't make desktop Office useless. We're already living in a hybrid world where people can choose what works best for them. For example, I prefer desktop OneDrive over the metro app for several reasons. Being able to drop something in a folder is, IMO, way more convenient than using the upload feature in the metro app. Yet, I still prefer metro IE. I use the ESPN app instead of the website. Heck, I use the ESPN app even when I'm outputting to a second monitor. I check the weather using the metro app but I open photos using Windows Photo Viewer. These are true hybrid devices where both options work. I don't see the appeal of removing features that doesn't take away from the user experience.

The real question is, why does Windows RT need to exist when Windows 8 can do everything RT can but cheaper? I sold my Surface 2 and picked up a Encore 2 with Windows 8.1 w/Bing. So get this, the Encore 2 boots way faster. They're both 32GB devices but the Encore 2 has more available space. It's cheaper than the Surface 2 (both the 8" and 10" version are cheaper). And Bay Trail is pretty much on equal ground with the Tegra 4. You could get an Encore 2 10", a Bluetooth keyboard, a micro HDMI cable and a micro USB adapter and it's still cheaper than a Surface 2 without any accessories. That's crazy.

I can understand why people want a Surface 2. It has a nice 1080p screen, full size USB 3.0, kickstand, micro HDMI, Office 2013 instead of Office 365 and virus makers have pretty much ignored it. Those are all the reasons I got one. And that's fine if what you mostly want to do is consume media, take notes and use Office. And for a while there the Surface 2 was pretty much unchallenged in those regards. But now that I can get a full Windows 8 tablets, with all the software options of Windows RT, where does that leave RT? I still think RT has a future in schools and businesses since you're not going to wreck it with some random .exe. However, it's a hard sale as a consumer product because Windows 8 does it all and does it cheaper.

I sort of agree, the price is what got me into a Surface RT 64G, you find a 10 inch tablet hybrid that has office RT or full office, for less then $179, I have been eyeing the Toshiba Encore Mini 7 (Buy Toshiba Encore Mini WT7-C16MS Signature Edition Tablet - Microsoft Store) for $119 and it comes with Office 365 (only for a year)... That seems great, but the boot time and recovery, are another issue, the way these smaller foot print devices work, is they boot via wimboot (the recovery image) and then use the remainder of the space for updates and your data, when you reset, all it does is wipe the data space and default you back to the default WIMBOOT image. SSD/ or flash drives do fail... What happens if the space of the WIMBOOT gets corrupted, now you might not know, because it is not being used as the file that resides there is not in use (as newer updated one is on your data space), now if you crash and need to recover then your image is corrupt with no way to repair? I have not look into other recovery options as of yet. But my kids NEXTBOOKS are like this, I have re-flashed Android ICS about a million times, with their space disappearing (I have a full image backup, which when applied re-formats all spaces so the bad spaces are marked bad). Not sure if these WIMBOOT Windows 8.1 with Bing have such an option (as I do not own one yet)...

But these new tablets/full Windows are just starting to take off, what does Surface RT/Surface 2 have, the build quality of the device is great, full USB, colorful covers that allow one to customize, and you can type on them, they give you a hybrid tablet/laptop with full office (as much as Office RT can be full), and for Surface 2 200G of OneDrive (used to be SkyDrive) and Skype for a year... The issue for me was always price, wanted a Surface for what it offered, would never pay $500 for it... But at $179 it was perfect...

 

[Philip Hamm]

John - great post. I remember reading a great article about the original Surface and RT based Windows being a very large strategic move by Microsoft largely to put pressure on Intel because Intel was not forthcoming with competitive chips to the ARM chips in regards to battery life, cost, etc. Intel has answered the call, and Windows RT's usefulness has been greatly diminished in the light of these new arrangements.

I still love my RT tablet - I love that it's virus proof, that it has a beautiful screen, that it has USB and great driver support - RT still is a great, great platform. However, the value proposition that was the original "Surface" versus "Surface Pro" has largely been nullified by Intel.

If I were buying a new tablet today I'd still get this RT because the value proposition of a sub-$200 (street price for original Surface) is still impossible to beat. I always buy trailing edge hardware because it offers so much for the dollar.

Another thing to keep in mind - when using the Surface as a "light" laptop the type cover, USB port for a mouse, and kickstand are pretty fantastic. I have been using a Bluetooth keeyboard for years on my iPad and find the hardwired keyboard to be a far better solution. No battery drain, better responsiveness, etc. etc. etc.

 

[fatclue_98]

Yes, right now it needs it. We don't have the few things that are on the desktop in Metro. Windows 9 will have those, and thus the need for the Windows 9 RT version to have a desktop will be gone. And according to everything we're hearing from reputable sources, that's exactly what's going to be happening.



They designed it to compete with the iPad. It is a hybrid device? No, it's a device whose OS hasn't fully matured, and as such still needs the desktop. Also, who is to say that you won't be able to do all of that with Windows 9 without a desktop?



They were talking about keyboard and mouse, and how they're going to be first class citizens from what I watched. You don't need a desktop to use a mouse and keyboard. I use one all the time on my RT, and I don't go to the desktop for much other than Office.



From an Android side, we have the fact that Windows just works better. It also gets all the updates and has Office for free. From the iOS side, we get fixes more frequently, Office for free. We also have a better browser than either.



Better browser, free Office, consistent updates?



For now, but I'd be surprised if Metro Office didn't come with Outlook. Also, even Metro IE is better than the Android browser or Safari on iOS.

It's not that Metro IE is better than its counterparts, it's that without apps, you're forced to rely on the desktop IE to do things that mobile browsers can't. As Cori mentioned, why the one or the other attitudes? RT is simply not developed enough to eliminate the traditional desktop functions.

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[Michael Alan Goff]

It's not that Metro IE is better than its counterparts, it's that without apps, you're forced to rely on the desktop IE to do things that mobile browsers can't. As Cori mentioned, why the one or the other attitudes? RT is simply not developed enough to eliminate the traditional desktop functions.

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When released, you're right. But Windows 9 will be bringing a lot to the RT table with the merge. IE 12, for example.

 

[RTGent]

I have a great 8/256 Pro 2 now, but still use my original RT (now on 8.1) nearly every day.

 

[John Steffes]

Wow, watching the Preview of Windows 10, hope it also is released as RT 10... I want that design, everything I was talking about in my posts, the hybrid Windows 7 with Windows 8/8.1, Love the part that when the keyboard is there it asks do you want the desktop for keyboard/mouse, when the keyboard (type cover) is removed is asks if you want to be optimized for Touch... Now they are thinking...

 

[Jonathanmr7]

The last saturday i buy a surface rt and hell i love it!! Hope they update this to win 10!!��