01-25-2015 05:59 PM
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  1. inteller's Avatar
    look back at some of my earlier comments. Windows 10 might be available for AN ARM device, but not these ARM devices (Surface 1 and 2).

    Get ready for Microsoft to say either:

    The hardware can't support it (lie)
    The OOB (out of box) user experience will be radically different from what the user was initially sold (cop out)
    Surface ARM line is ending (likely)

    What they are pushing back is the 2 year marks that would effect people who might have got a 4G ARM device under contract. This is all planned obsolescence, plain and simple.
    10-02-2014 11:19 AM
  2. Jas00555's Avatar
    look back at some of my earlier comments. Windows 10 might be available for AN ARM device, but not these ARM devices (Surface 1 and 2).

    Get ready for Microsoft to say either:

    The hardware can't support it (lie)
    The OOB (out of box) user experience will be radically different from what the user was initially sold (cop out)
    Surface ARM line is ending (likely)

    What they are pushing back is the 2 year marks that would effect people who might have got a 4G ARM device under contract. This is all planned obsolescence, plain and simple.
    No, it's FUD from yourself. They have now specifically said ARM devices AND phones. Two separate things. So we know what phones means, what's the ARM mean then? If it doesn't mean RT what does it mean? I don't know of any other Windows OS on ARM.
    xandros9 likes this.
    10-02-2014 11:25 AM
  3. xandros9's Avatar
    No, it's FUD from yourself. They have now specifically said ARM devices AND phones. Two separate things. So we know what phones means, what's the ARM mean then? If it doesn't mean RT what does it mean? I don't know of any other Windows OS on ARM.
    Yes, lets just support all these ARM devices from Dell, ASUS, and not update the Surfaces! Its only logical.

    But actually, I thought OP was going to take that announcement and say how all the RT's will be left on the Technical/Consumer Preview and that we'd be all screwed since MS technically didn't say they would put the actual release out.

    Stop while you're ahead. Come back later when support ends in 2017 for the original.
    Jas00555 and Philip Hamm like this.
    10-02-2014 11:56 AM
  4. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Have a read of this and this quote:

    "Microsoft's Joe Belfiore has confirmed previous rumors that a preview of Windows 10 that will run on ARM devices like Surface RT and Surface 2, along with Windows Phones, won't be released for a while."


    Joe Belfiore: Windows 10 preview for phones and ARM devices isn't due until 'well into 2015' | Windows Phone Central

    Why jump in with threads about people being screwed when you know no more than anyone else, building a thread on speculation does nobody any good.


    Bob
    xandros9 likes this.
    10-02-2014 12:20 PM
  5. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    No, it's FUD from yourself. They have now specifically said ARM devices AND phones. Two separate things. So we know what phones means, what's the ARM mean then? If it doesn't mean RT what does it mean? I don't know of any other Windows OS on ARM.
    The quote from Belfiore certainly puts Microsoft on the hook to provide Windows 10 for ARM devices currently in the field. If they come through, that's great... but if they don't, it will be what they are famous for... FUD. (even if they try to explain it away with some technical reason)

    In the end, they still haven't learned to communicate clearly with a consistent message.
    xandros9 likes this.
    10-02-2014 04:08 PM
  6. inteller's Avatar
    Yes, lets just support all these ARM devices from Dell, ASUS, and not update the Surfaces! Its only logical.

    .
    oh hell, RT devices from Dell, Asus, et al have been abandoned for a LONG time and these OEMs CERTAINLY won't be packaging an upgrade deployment for those devices.

    Belfiore saying that windows 10 preview will be available for phones and ARM devices means nothing other than windows 10 that runs on ARM architecture (which is really phones and arm tablets, to distinguish the two is pointless) will be available in 2015...but the official upgrade situation will be even more dire for phones. Oh sure...there will probably be a preview program like there is now, but there will NEVER be official updates for 2 year old phones from the carriers. Likewise Microsoft and every other RT OEM will dump support for RT tablets.
    10-02-2014 09:20 PM
  7. JamesPTao's Avatar
    oh hell, RT devices from Dell, Asus, et al have been abandoned for a LONG time and these OEMs CERTAINLY won't be packaging an upgrade deployment for those devices.

    Belfiore saying that windows 10 preview will be available for phones and ARM devices means nothing other than windows 10 that runs on ARM architecture (which is really phones and arm tablets, to distinguish the two is pointless) will be available in 2015...but the official upgrade situation will be even more dire for phones. Oh sure...there will probably be a preview program like there is now, but there will NEVER be official updates for 2 year old phones from the carriers. Likewise Microsoft and every other RT OEM will dump support for RT tablets.
    There already is! My 920 just got the official update and is 1 month shy of two years.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    10-02-2014 09:38 PM
  8. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    Everywhere I read in the WPCentral forums a post about why Microsoft, Windows 10, WP, RT etc. is dead, failing is becoming quite wearisome. To the OP, calm down and relax. Patience is a virtue; so wait and see what happens. If Microsoft goes against its word, they'd better be ready for the PR nightmare that will result which I highly doubt they are looking for at the present time. Maybe the product offerings from Mountain View, CA or Cupertino may interest you if you feel slighted already from Microsoft.
    10-02-2014 10:40 PM
  9. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Everywhere I read in the WPCentral forums a post about why Microsoft, Windows 10, WP, RT etc. is dead, failing is becoming quite wearisome. To the OP, calm down and relax. Patience is a virtue; so wait and see what happens. If Microsoft goes against its word, they'd better be ready for the PR nightmare that will result which I highly doubt they are looking for at the present time. Maybe the product offerings from Mountain View, CA or Cupertino may interest you if you feel slighted already from Microsoft.
    Yeah, when I look on here about the 930 almost all I hear are issues and complaints with little positives, but I look on amazon and its one of the most highly rated phones (or any product) I've seen in a while. Kinda gives you perspective.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    10-02-2014 11:19 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Yeah, when I look on here about the 930 almost all I hear are issues and complaints with little positives, but I look on amazon and its one of the most highly rated phones (or any product) I've seen in a while. Kinda gives you perspective.
    Are you suggesting we call the whaaambulance for some of these people?
    10-03-2014 10:05 AM
  11. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Are you suggesting we call the whaaambulance for some of these people?
    Maybe. I'm sure some of the issues are valid. But as with all things 90% of people with a problem will share it many times while few that are very happy will, so it gives one trying to research a phone a very imbalanced perspective on the phones reliability. Especially since if you're having a problem you will go to the forums for help, but if you are happy you might nit.
    xandros9 likes this.
    10-03-2014 04:11 PM
  12. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Yeah, when I look on here about the 930 almost all I hear are issues and complaints with little positives, but I look on amazon and its one of the most highly rated phones (or any product) I've seen in a while. Kinda gives you perspective.
    Maybe, just maybe, it's because those who are more likely to post here have experience with Microsoft. Grandmothers posting favorable reviews on Amazon are a bit different. That's before factoring in the astro-turfers posting reviews on Amazon.
    10-03-2014 04:15 PM
  13. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Maybe, just maybe, it's because those who are more likely to post here have experience with Microsoft. Grandmothers posting favorable reviews on Amazon are a bit different. That's before factoring in the astro-turfers posting reviews on Amazon.
    Grandmas are more likely to complain if they can't figure something out even if its not the fault of the product where more tech savy people, although more likely to identify little quarks, are more likely to research and look at forums to figure it out. More experience usually equals a better ability to figure things out. So I would have to disagree.
    10-03-2014 06:15 PM
  14. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    I completely respect the opinions of those who have their issues with Windows/Microsoft products, as do I. However I don't start a new thread complaining about this or that because it sends a message to new Windows Phone users that these phones are problem filled. Some folks need to just calm down and relax and realize that there is no perfect OS. If there was, everyone would have it.
    JamesPTao and xandros9 like this.
    10-03-2014 10:02 PM
  15. smoledman's Avatar
    Maybe wait until April 2015 before deciding MS screwed you?
    xandros9 and Jas00555 like this.
    10-03-2014 10:03 PM
  16. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Grandmas are more likely to complain if they can't figure something out even if its not the fault of the product where more tech savy people, although more likely to identify little quarks, are more likely to research and look at forums to figure it out. More experience usually equals a better ability to figure things out. So I would have to disagree.
    Grandmas are less likely to do anything beyond make a phone call and try to respond to their grandkids' SMS texts. We see a similar phenomenon here with regard to many Surface users. Those who do basic tablet tasks that any iOS or Android tab is capable of, are delighted with their Surfaces. Those who attempt to do more challenging tasks are the ones more likely run into issues... the more in-depth the task, the more likely one is to experience issues.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    10-04-2014 12:32 PM
  17. prlundberg's Avatar
    That depends on your definition of "in-depth". For example, no Android or iOS device can multitask, do Office/Outlook, or support 3rd party USB devices as well as the Surface. WinRT is a powerful mobile OS, for the most part it has been the apps and support that have lagged behind.

    Personally, after my experience with 8.1 and IE11, I shudder to think of how Win10 may perform on my original RT. The Tegra3 has never run anything particularly well and as websites continue to get more complex my Surface is showing its age badly (wpcentral is barely functional). By the time 10 comes out I will be more than ready to move on to something else. So really, if it doesn't support win10, I'm not going to worry about it.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    10-07-2014 12:36 PM
  18. inteller's Avatar
    If one were to strip out all of the needless Windows system overhead that drives Desktop and its subprocesses, the Tegra3 could handle Windows 10 just fine. Just see how well it performed on the HTC One X. Microsoft also never activated the 5th battery saving core which would have opened up a realm of possibilities.

    There is nothing hardware wise about the Tegra3 that is deficient, only a bloated Windows OS that was ported over almost verbatim. Strip it down to Windows Phone proportions and it will be great.
    10-07-2014 12:41 PM
  19. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    That depends on your definition of "in-depth". For example, no Android or iOS device can multitask, do Office/Outlook, or support 3rd party USB devices as well as the Surface. WinRT is a powerful mobile OS, for the most part it has been the apps and support that have lagged behind.
    Except for the "no Android or iOS device can multitask", I completely agree.


    If one were to strip out all of the needless Windows system overhead that drives Desktop and its subprocesses, the Tegra3 could handle Windows 10 just fine. Just see how well it performed on the HTC One X. Microsoft also never activated the 5th battery saving core which would have opened up a realm of possibilities.

    There is nothing hardware wise about the Tegra3 that is deficient, only a bloated Windows OS that was ported over almost verbatim. Strip it down to Windows Phone proportions and it will be great.
    I generally agree with you. However, Microsoft has a track record of not properly utilizing Tegra chips in their consumer devices. Similar issues with the Zune HD. Some blame NVidia for poor drivers (speculation on their part), but I put the blame squarely on Microsoft since they are the ones who chose Tegra and are in total control of what they produce to sell.

    Having been burned a few times by the Microsoft/Tegra combo, I will never buy another one again.
    10-07-2014 03:30 PM
  20. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Except for the "no Android or iOS device can multitask", I completely agree.



    I generally agree with you. However, Microsoft has a track record of not properly utilizing Tegra chips in their consumer devices. Similar issues with the Zune HD. Some blame NVidia for poor drivers (speculation on their part), but I put the blame squarely on Microsoft since they are the ones who chose Tegra and are in total control of what they produce to sell.

    Having been burned a few times by the Microsoft/Tegra combo, I will never buy another one again.

    I think he's referring to the split screen multi-tasking, in which case he'd be right.
    10-07-2014 05:59 PM
  21. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    I think he's referring to the split screen multi-tasking, in which case he'd be right.
    If that's what he meant, then he's not exactly correct. My Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 does split screen with most of my apps.
    10-08-2014 05:42 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    If that's what he meant, then he's not exactly correct. My Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 does split screen with most of my apps.
    That's a feature unique to an OEM skin, it's not baked into AOSP.
    10-09-2014 08:30 AM
  23. xandros9's Avatar
    That's a feature unique to an OEM skin, it's not baked into AOSP.
    but if it works with enough apps, I don't think it matters? Its just showcasing a plus (or minus) of Android.
    If it only works with a handful however, its less appealing. Still nice seeing Samsung doing what they can.
    10-09-2014 05:54 PM
  24. Greywolf1967's Avatar
    So almost everyone has been jumping on inteller for being an alarmist or jumping the gun..........

    What about this post in news right here on WPC ??????
    An end of production of Arm Tablets?
    This leads right into a set up for no Update to W10 for arm.....yes Microsoft will support RT devices till life end, but it will be Patches and fixes. A life cycle does not mean automatic upgrade to the next version of OS, only that all bug fixes and security flaws will be fixed in it's cycle.

    Also are any of you enjoying a "Touch Friendly Version of Office" yet on Surface Pro and RT???? Something Android and iPhone/iPad user now have.....hummmmmmm

    Add in another post that VZW has retired the Lumia Icon pre Cyan update.......not the fault of Microsoft, but an example of some being left out in the cold.....like the HTC 8x and 8s.

    The history is there to back up the original statement, and when dealing with Microsoft I go by the old saying.....Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me Twice shame on me.

    I have a feeling this will be the next WP7 to WP8 mess all over again.

    Also if Intel is starting to push a new M class chipset, my wonder has to be......will Arm be worth the money needed for development to push an Update or will Windows 10 just adopt a new Intel M class chipset for mobile Tablets???

    I still have a dog in this fight also with an RT and an Acer W3, and I have the impression the W3 will get an upgrade, but sadly my RT I feel is stuck, unless over at XDA a hack comes to life.
    10-09-2014 07:40 PM
  25. xandros9's Avatar
    I'm not surprised by this rumor of the pending ditching of ARM, ever since the Atoms burst onto the scene, RT looked like a wager gone wrong. They're practically on the hook for 10 on ARM as well. It's stated a preview for 10 at least is slated to appear.

    But you have a point, distinguishing software upgrades from updates here.

    Regarding your touch friendly Office, Office 2013 works fine on an 8" display, the 10.6"? in the RT...
    All Android has is a mobile app on par with our WP's, same with iPhone IIRC.
    iPad requires a 365 subscription. How about that? HMMMMM. not saying its ideal, but its still not as you make it out to be.
    Still can't wait for an improved Office on any phone.

    If the VZW Icon dump and HTC 8x/8s aren't MS's fault, then they kinda aren't relevant. This isn't about the prospect of updates from either HTC or VZW, we're arguing about the prospect of 10 on RT Surfaces.

    And it looks like Intel Core M is on the level of the Surface Pro's, not the lower end RT's which I won't mind betting will be swapped out for Atom chips.

    Personally, I am a little concerned for the opposite, MS seems like its supporting its stuff well, but I don't know if the OEMs will come through with drivers. (IF necessary) but hey, it is still up in the air.
    10-09-2014 10:46 PM
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