01-25-2015 05:59 PM
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  1. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Anyway, if it turns out that there will be no Surface 3, then I'll gladly (or sadly due to the lack of a Surface 3) buy you a beer if you're ever in central Europe
    Frankly, I'd rather be proven wrong and a Surface 3 released. :) But the next time I'm in Europe, I'll be sure to swing by anyways. (I'm overdue for another trip to Romania)
    a5cent likes this.
    12-16-2014 10:48 AM
  2. Philip Hamm's Avatar
    I didn't see it but I've been told that Microsoft said in the QA session of their big Windows 10 event today that there will be a Windows 10 RT and it will be free.

    http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/21/w...-free-upgrade/
    01-21-2015 01:53 PM
  3. Jas00555's Avatar
    No I won't. I will come back here and GLADLY state that I was wrong. But I know I won't because that would be a positive outcome.

    You say there is no precedent. Oh I could mention Windows Phone 7, but then you'll regurgitate the same tired straw man excuses like hardware and kernel differences. But the precedent of perfectly fine hardware being abandoned IS there.

    I come here bringing you reality folks, the Screw You Train has left the station, next stop 2015.
    We're waiting....
    01-21-2015 01:55 PM
  4. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    We're waiting....
    Windows 10 RT hasn't been released yet so there's still time for Microsoft to "punk out". Of course today's clarification is on face value good news. If a Windows 10 RT materializes for the Surface 2, I'll probably pick up another one... and if it runs well on an RT, I'll get one of those.
    Philip Hamm and xandros9 like this.
    01-21-2015 02:19 PM
  5. T Moore's Avatar
    Windows 10 is a free upgrade for all 7 and 8.1 users (update: RT too)

    During a Q&A session after the event, Myerson promised that Windows RT users would get an upgrade to 10 as well
    01-21-2015 05:11 PM
  6. LLPO's Avatar
    Surface 2 has not been on sale in the online Microsoft Store for a while now, everyone says that RT is gone but I hope there'll be Surface 3 and mini versions, ARM with digitisers. Seems no point to me having underpowered x86 (Atom) in a small screen device.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    01-21-2015 06:14 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    Windows 10 is a free upgrade for all 7 and 8.1 users (update: RT too)

    During a Q&A session after the event, Myerson promised that Windows RT users would get an upgrade to 10 as well
    Okay, that settles it. Surface RT owners will get an update!

    However, the question those "journalists" should have asked is not if it will get an update, but rather what those devices will be updated with! Will it be a Windows 10 RT update , like WillysJeepMan wants, or will those devices get the Windows 10 we saw running on the phone?

    Based on the demonstration of touch Office, which looks like it actually will be a fully functional version of Office, I'm inclined to believe those devices will get W10M (without the desktop), not W10 compiled for ARM, which is what Windows RT was.

    And yes, I'll continue to call it W10M, since I have no other way to denote the difference between W10 and W10 for mobile devices.
    Guytronic likes this.
    01-21-2015 06:49 PM
  8. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Tablets and phones will have the same os. So yes the phone will have the same os but a more appropriate way to put it is that phones will get the new rt update. Of course I'm sure the tablets will have some features/abilties the phones wont have.
    01-21-2015 07:03 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    Tablets and phones will have the same os.
    When W10 for phones can run Win32 applications, then I'll agree with you that it's the same OS (not that I'd actually want that... terrible idea). Until then it's marketing speak for: "we want you think it's the same OS, even though it isn't".

    a more appropriate way to put it is that phones will get the new rt update.
    Definitely not. Windows RT included all of Win32 and the desktop, which accounts for 90% of what we traditionally called Windows so far. W10 for phones has none of that.

    W10 for phones is WP8.1 with full WinRT API support and a .NET runtime more similar to what W10 uses.
    01-21-2015 08:16 PM
  10. John Steffes's Avatar
    Watched the morning video again, stated Size of Device is the factor, all Windows device below 8 inches get the crippled Tablet/Phone UI, Where he showed a 8 inch that had Desktop mode and Tablet mode, They referenced Surface Pro 3 as a 2in1 device that would have Continuum Mode*, which can have a keyboard/mouse with a click. As Surface RT, Surface 2, all Surface Pro models all act the same (2in1), I think we will get Windows 10 RT with Office (not sure if it will be Office universal apps** or traditional Desktop (ARM Complied) Office*** like Office 2013 RT and with the Office universal** transition depending on Continuum mode*).

    *Continuum Mode: On 2in1 devices, Windows 10 will move easily between keyboard/mouse and touch/tablet as it detects the transition and conveniently switches to the new mode.

    **Office universal apps on Windows 10 offer a consistent, touch-first experience across phone, tablet and PC with new versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote and Outlook. Designed from the ground up to run on Windows, you can easily create and edit Word documents, annotate slides in real-time with new inking features or easily present PowerPoint presentations, and with new touch-first controls in Excel you can create or update spreadsheets without a keyboard or mouse.

    ***The next version of the Office desktop suite is also currently in development, more on this in the coming months.


    Vlad-Stefan Nangiu stated on:
    http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwin...ws-windows-10/

    *It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise outside of this offer. We will be sharing more information and additional offer terms in coming months.

    So who knows now...
    Last edited by John Steffes; 01-21-2015 at 09:08 PM.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    01-21-2015 08:36 PM
  11. JamesDax's Avatar
    You will get Windows 10. There is no Windows 10 RT. This crying has been going on since Sept. You can stop now.
    Philip Hamm and xandros9 like this.
    01-21-2015 08:59 PM
  12. wrm1's Avatar
    So, with the touch version of Office announced now, I can't help but feel that we will see an announcement about RT during the mobile event in a few weeks. After all, now that there is a touch friendly office, there is no need for the desktop on RT...meaning that RT devices would it more inline with the mobile area now then traditional pc areas. Just a guess, I really can't wait to find out something. Even if that something is sorry.
    01-21-2015 11:07 PM
  13. Philip Hamm's Avatar
    I am expecting Windows 10 for ARM just like we have Windows 8 for ARM, called "RT". It would be much, much, much more work for Microsoft to scale up the Windows phone OS for tablets than it would be to recompile code that they've been designing to be CPU agnostic for decades for a new CPU.
    Last edited by Philip Hamm; 01-22-2015 at 08:19 AM.
    01-22-2015 07:48 AM
  14. Philip Hamm's Avatar
    *It is our intent that most of these devices will qualify, but some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. ISP fees may apply. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 Enterprise outside of this offer. We will be sharing more information and additional offer terms in coming months.

    So who knows now...
    Yes - well I think Windows RT would not qualify for this specific "free upgrade" promotion because it's not a "license" per se like Windows 8 was. Windows RT licensing is built into the hardware. It's very different from a licensing perspective than x86 Windows8, even x86 Windows 8 on tablets. However, they did make it clear in the QA that there will be a Windows 10 for ARM devices running Windows RT.
    01-22-2015 07:55 AM
  15. Philip Hamm's Avatar
    After all, now that there is a touch friendly office, there is no need for the desktop on RT...meaning that RT devices would it more inline with the mobile area now then traditional pc areas. Just a guess, I really can't wait to find out something. Even if that something is sorry.
    I don't see the desktop in Windows 10 ARM going away. (I personally love it) Unless and until they build a fully functional file management system into the modern front end (the One Drive app is pathetic compared to traditional desktop folder file management), and until they completely remove all legacy Control Panel and functionality, there will be a need. Also they'd need to design a modern interface for RegEdit.

    Also, it is well documented in "How to" videos and documents all over the web how you can run stuff like spotify and such in the background on Surface tablets using the desktop IE browser. They know lots of people are doing this, why would they eliminate that capability? (unless the new browser eliminates the need for this capability - which it very well might)

    I hope the touch Office versions don't displace the desktop ones. I love the desktop Office apps on my Surface RT. I'd like to see Touch Office implemented like Touch IE is - same core code with a touch mode and a "desktop" mode. I LOVE that the Surface RT is a "hybrid" device not limited to tablet only computing.
    Last edited by Philip Hamm; 01-22-2015 at 08:21 AM.
    01-22-2015 08:02 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    I am expecting Windows 10 for ARM just like we have Windows 8 for ARM, called "RT". It would be much, much, much more work for Microsoft to scale up the Windows phone OS for tablets than it would be to recompile code that they've been designing to be CPU agnostic for decades for a new CPU.
    Except they already did that work. It's exactly what we saw at the Windows 10 demo yesterday. That's what universal apps do! They scale up on larger screens and down on phone displays.
    01-22-2015 09:00 AM
  17. slysy's Avatar
    Windows RT-based Surface and Surface 2 will get some of the features of Windows 10 | Windows Central

    Looks like Surface RT and Surface 2 will not be getting the full Win10
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    01-22-2015 09:12 AM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    Windows RT-based Surface and Surface 2 will get some of the features of Windows 10 | Windows Central

    Looks like Surface RT and Surface 2 will not be getting the full Win10
    Obviously not. People are taking this the wrong way though (I blame Microsoft's communication skills). Windows 10 only includes SKUs for 7" and under devices on ARM and 8" and over on x86. The update is equivalent to what would've been Windows 10 RT if Microsoft hadn't decided to kill RT. People are overreacting to this.
    Philip Hamm likes this.
    01-22-2015 10:24 AM
  19. marratj's Avatar
    Windows RT-based Surface and Surface 2 will get some of the features of Windows 10 | Windows Central

    Looks like Surface RT and Surface 2 will not be getting the full Win10
    Well, my Surface RT has aged quite well and I don't mind if it doesn't get full Windows 10. But I hope that "some of the features" means the newer version of the Universal Apps API, so we still have compatibility with new apps, which is the most important thing in my view.
    01-22-2015 11:34 AM
  20. Philip Hamm's Avatar
    Yup. Looks like we are getting some upgrades but not a complete version.

    Microsoft's Surface RT tablets won't get Windows 10 | The Verge
    01-22-2015 12:06 PM
  21. theefman's Avatar
    Obviously not. People are taking this the wrong way though (I blame Microsoft's communication skills). Windows 10 only includes SKUs for 7" and under devices on ARM and 8" and over on x86. The update is equivalent to what would've been Windows 10 RT if Microsoft hadn't decided to kill RT. People are overreacting to this.


    They haven't said exactly what the update for RT will contain so there is no way to know what will and wont be included, anything else is speculation. If RT was going to get the same SKU as 7" and under devices I would imagine they would have said so but they have only said they are working on it. Only time will tell exactly what the update will entail.
    a5cent and Philip Hamm like this.
    01-22-2015 12:06 PM
  22. JamesPTao's Avatar
    Not getting the "full" windows 10 on older tablets is being taken completely wrong. Every tablet will get it, but if the existing hardware doesn't support a certain feature obviously the device will not be able to use that feature. Big difference from getting a partial or not full upgrade, please people use common sense and stop complaining about things that aren't possible. If your device can't support a new feature ms can't magically replace your hardware through the upgrade to support it!
    xFalk, Harrie-S, xandros9 and 2 others like this.
    01-22-2015 06:04 PM
  23. xFalk's Avatar
    Not getting the "full" windows 10 on older tablets is being taken completely wrong. Every tablet will get it, but if the existing hardware doesn't support a certain feature obviously the device will not be able to use that feature. Big difference from getting a partial or not full upgrade, please people use common sense and stop complaining about things that aren't possible. If your device can't support a new feature ms can't magically replace your hardware through the upgrade to support it!
    Totally this! I'm a proud Surface RT owner from within the first month they came out. Still use it, still love it. I realize it is 1st gen hardware and may not support new advances in the W10 software that are meant to take advantage of new hardware. That's okay. It's not Microsoft's obligation to update my hardware.

    Reminds me of when I purchased my Xbox console 2 months before Xbox 360 came out...Oops! My bad. Didn't expect Xbox 360 games to play on it. And I've enjoyed playing on my gen 1 Xbox for many years since, skipping over Xbox 360 and finally picked up my Xbox One in November.
    01-23-2015 11:32 AM
  24. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    When W10 for phones can run Win32 applications, then I'll agree with you that it's the same OS (not that I'd actually want that... terrible idea). Until then it's marketing speak for: "we want you think it's the same OS, even though it isn't".



    Definitely not. Windows RT included all of Win32 and the desktop, which accounts for 90% of what we traditionally called Windows so far. W10 for phones has none of that.

    W10 for phones is WP8.1 with full WinRT API support and a .NET runtime more similar to what W10 uses.
    ​Win32 does not make something Windows or not.
    01-24-2015 08:43 PM
  25. J Frost's Avatar
    Totally this! I'm a proud Surface RT owner from within the first month they came out. Still use it, still love it. I realize it is 1st gen hardware and may not support new advances in the W10 software that are meant to take advantage of new hardware. That's okay. It's not Microsoft's obligation to update my hardware.

    Reminds me of when I purchased my Xbox console 2 months before Xbox 360 came out...Oops! My bad. Didn't expect Xbox 360 games to play on it. And I've enjoyed playing on my gen 1 Xbox for many years since, skipping over Xbox 360 and finally picked up my Xbox One in November.
    Well said. I've followed the same path purchasing an RT about a month after it came out and I've owned an original Xbox since 2002 and enjoyed it passing over the 360 jumping into One Christmas of 13'.
    I use my RT for work and travel and its been an excellent device with limitations that I've learned to work around. I'm just now thinking of upgrading to a SP3 and passing my RT to my youngest.
    01-24-2015 08:57 PM
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