Let's be honest - this thing isn't going to compete at $299

dkp23

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From reading some of the text on the live blog, this is clearly not going to compete mainstream, this is a niche product for them which is why they priced as such. There will be limited inventory i would assume.

I expect a cheaper version for next gen though later this year or next year at a more reasonable $199 price point
 

ianberg

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I really like the quality of Nokia phones and want this company to stay in business. That said, the lack of optimized Windows Phone apps for things like YouTube, Instagram, and most banks makes me consider going Android now and then. And you've got to know that Microsoft could, at any moment, just give up on Windows Phone entirely and announce a series of 5 inch and 7 inch Surface phablets running Windows 8 and Windows RT.
 

a5cent

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I really like the quality of Nokia phones and want this company to stay in business. That said, the lack of optimized Windows Phone apps for things like YouTube, Instagram, and most banks makes me consider going Android now and then. And you've got to know that Microsoft could, at any moment, just give up on Windows Phone entirely and announce a series of 5 inch and 7 inch Surface phablets running Windows 8 and Windows RT.

The idea that Microsoft could bail any minute is beyond ridiculous. Just recently Microsoft considered purchasing Nokia. That deal would have cost Microsoft billions. No company considers spending that amount of cash in a market they are expecting to exit any moment.

I had to get that off my chest, despite it not having anything to do with the price of the L1020.
 

tissotti

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But Nokia has had the best cameras in every phone for YEARS and it hasn't made much of a dent. People are "ok" getting by with the 13mp camera in the GS4 or the 8mp camera in the iPhone 5.

I don't think MS buying Nokia helps anything, I just think it keeps Nokia from going belly up.

Not on Windows Phone no, but naturally on Symbian side N95 sold 16 million at 600 euros and N8 has sold over 10 million with camera being main attraction. Even 808 with being only new device on Symbian for over a year after the platform was announced death in 2011, the operating system was still selling more than WP Q2 last year.

Cameras can absolutely sell phones and they do, but the operating system needs to get going on first.


Personally don't really care about how locked contract price as this only concerns US. I will be paying 599 euros price for it like every other flagship or get it from multiple operators with different offers, like Lumia 920. Cheapness of US customers amazes me at times when it comes to initial price. :D With the current model you just end up paying more thanks to the higher data costs to Europe. Resulted by the domination and control of couple of carriers.
 
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JamesC1119

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I'm an iPhone 5 owner and I'm jumping ship to WP for this. While I'm far from a pro photographer, with two kids under two years old there's never enough time to grab the DSLR to get the best pictures. I've been waiting for this for a while. I held out on the 920 hoping this would be coming soon. $299 is not an issue for me if the camera exceeds what I can get in other smartphones with an OS that is half way decent. From what I've seen of WP I'm pretty excited, I'm sure I'll have a few app withdraws, primarily Instagram, but overall I'm ready to jump ship and pre-order this bad boy. Looking forward to the 16/26th respectively.
 

Musicman247

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Elop himself said that there would be a bigger push for this phone than for the 920, but it wouldn't be anything compared to the push for the phones at the end of the year and beyond.

Keep calm and be patient.
 

a5cent

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It's the same price as the 32 GB iP5 on AT&T, which a very large portion of the American public was able to afford. Compared to the overpriced iP5, where you're paying primarily for the Apple logo, this purchase actually gets you ground-breaking hardware. Whether people will do the same for the L1020 is just a question of how it is sold in stores:

Sales staff:

"You want a smartphone with a good camera? Well, take a look at this. It's the Lumia 1020. The camera in this baby is in a league of its own! Amazingly, the camera is actually better than any of the point-and-shoot cameras some people still use. It even rivals some of the larger and more expensive camera models. However, just take a moment to appreciate how it's still "smartphone sized" and not "camera sized"! That means everyone can comfortably take this with them wherever they go. For people who want their photographs to look professional, rather than just good, but don't want to carry a dedicated camera around with them, this is a game changer. It's effectively two devices in one. It's a camera, and it's a reliable and easy to use smartphone. If you're also one of those people that appreciate great image quality, possibly even contemplated purchasing a real point-and-shoot in the next two years, then getting this device can save you hundreds of dollars. It's a smart deal, because you're getting us (AT&T) to subsidize your camera purchase along with your smartphone purchase. Would that interest you?"

The GS4 and iPhone can get away with $249, $299, whatever, because they've earned that reputation.

Yes, and as ridiculous as it sounds, that reputation is earned, first and foremost, by launching a higher priced device! What is and what isn't too expensive is a matter of consumer perception and frame of reference. Factually, the iP5 was and still is the most overpriced consumer electronics product ever produced. Their margins far exceed their competition's. The L1020 is factually the much better deal. After all, we're not really paying for the plastic and silicon that went into building it, but rather the costs associated with optics and materials research. No other company invests that amount of research dollars, and Nokia deserves a return on that investment. That goes beyond what most consumers are aware of, but considering that, it is a fair price. At least for now. If Nokia can't communicate that, then they must learn or fail. Better to start learning now.
 
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John20212

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we're not just paying for the plastic and silicon that went into manufacturing the L1020, but also all the optics and materials research that went into it. No other smartphone OEM goes to such lengths to improve smartphone technology. Everyone else is happy with purchasing off the shelf components or buying up innovative startups when they appear. That's more than most consumers realize, but considering that this is a fair price. At least for now. If Nokia can't communicate that, then they must learn or fail. Better to start learning now.

Good point, the problem is Nokia did not really communicate the price justification of $300 + 2y contract. I really hope they learn fast, as you suggested, because it would be a shame to see them fail. And without further explanation of the $300 price point they probably will fail.
 

ninjaap

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Just like how I refuse to pay $500 for the xbox one, I refuse to pay $300 for the 1020. But I will still get these devices. I will wait a year or two for the One to drop in price and I will wait a month or two for 1020 to hit Amazon and undercut ATT.
 

chezm

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I gotta say I sort of agree here, $300 on contract is pretty crazy and I also have doubts this will sway people to get it over an iPhone. Its unfortunate, I know a lot of people who would upgrade to this type of phone for the picture quality...but not at that price.
 

tractionx

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Just like how I refuse to pay $500 for the xbox one, I refuse to pay $300 for the 1020. But I will still get these devices. I will wait a year or two for the One to drop in price and I will wait a month or two for 1020 to hit Amazon and undercut ATT.

That's certainly an ... interesting ... way to look at economics. Say you wait a year for each to drop by $120... If the value of an Xbox 1 and a 1020 are so low to you that the use of them for a year isn't worth $120, how is the value high enough to ever be worth buying? You're saying the use of them isn't worth $10/month for all that extra use in 2013, but in 2014, it'd be worth that? What changed during that time?

If you're poor enough that $100 makes a difference, perhaps a phone that is going to cost you almost $3k on contract is a bad decision to make? I mean, $100 is a few percent ...
 

a5cent

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Good point, the problem is Nokia did not really communicate the price justification of $300 + 2y contract. I really hope they learn fast, as you suggested, because it would be a shame to see them fail. And without further explanation of the $300 price point they probably will fail.

Ouch, I see you quoted me before I made my last edit :unhappysweat:

Anyway, to your point. I have a hunch it might not be a good idea to justify anything at a launch event. You need to convey confidence in your products. I suspect justifications are best left to retail sales staff. Either way, it's evident that Nokia has their work cut out for them.
 

ninjaap

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That's certainly an ... interesting ... way to look at economics. Say you wait a year for each to drop by $120... If the value of an Xbox 1 and a 1020 are so low to you that the use of them for a year isn't worth $120, how is the value high enough to ever be worth buying? You're saying the use of them isn't worth $10/month for all that extra use in 2013, but in 2014, it'd be worth that? What changed during that time?

If you're poor enough that $100 makes a difference, perhaps a phone that is going to cost you almost $3k on contract is a bad decision to make? I mean, $100 is a few percent ...

You're making it to be more complicated than it really is.

Amazon has a history of undercutting ATT prices within a month or two of release. I will not be waiting a year for the 1020, it will only be a couple months.

Each version of xbox has a lifespan of about what - 7 yrs? So waiting a year or two for a Xbox One price drop (which historically has) is nothing especially if I still have my 360.

Does calling me poor make you feel superior somehow?
 

gsquared

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I gotta say I sort of agree here, $300 on contract is pretty crazy and I also have doubts this will sway people to get it over an iPhone. Its unfortunate, I know a lot of people who would upgrade to this type of phone for the picture quality...but not at that price.

Your not taking into account that $299 is chump-change for most folks. I spend more than that on booze and women every month.
 

a5cent

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Your not taking into account that $299 is chump-change for most folks. I spend more than that on booze and women every month.
I'm relieved to hear that. I know a lot of people are having a tough time in the U.S. but I was starting to wonder whether any Americans still earn money.
 

John20212

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Your not taking into account that $299 is chump-change for most folks. I spend more than that on booze and women every month.

Well, for some, every cent makes a difference. That does not neccessarily mean that they are poor, it just means that they are more careful and wise with their finances.
 

chezm

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Your not taking into account that $299 is chump-change for most folks. I spend more than that on booze and women every month.

All because people CAN afford it ddoesn't means they will spend it...i am one of those people and so are most of my peers. I can spend $$$ each month of entertainment but I try to consider a need vs want. With that said, $300 on a contract for 2 years is a lot of cash...and when the general consumer puts a $150 iphone5 vs a $300 WP8 phone which likely none of their friends own....what do you think they'll choose? Its not that the phone isn't worth the cost, but its the competitive factor im talking about.
 

Maserati Storm

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I totally I agree with this. I was watching the live stream and during the Q&A one lady asked what makes this better than the i5 and the galaxy 4, Elop talked about the camera and just the windows phone experience thats been out for the past few months! If Nokia had their own is with this phone or even tweaked wp8 to another feature in there it would of been easier to sell (maybe). I'm a Nokia fan before windows and after seeing this transition Nokia is a caged bird, best thing they can do is make good phones/camera phones. Microsoft needs to throw money at marketing to get this sorted.
 

tgp

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But does the 1020 have much of anything over other phones besides the camera? I know that most of us here like WP better, but we still admit that it falls behind the competition in features & capabilities. I personally couldn't care less about camera quality, as long as it's acceptable. I don't see most consumers paying more & making the jump simply for a better camera. I see the 1020 as a device for a niche market.
 

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