07-21-2013 01:17 PM
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  1. jaimeastin's Avatar
    I slightly disagree. I love my 920, but I would love to have the 1020. I am not a professional photographer, but I like to take pictures.

    For years, I scoffed at the idea of taking pictures with a phone... I had a point and shoot and my dslr. Well, as the phones pics got better, so did my phone. Just to go a year back, focus-900-920. I gave my point and shoot away 2-3 years ago. My dslr is too big to carry all the time.

    Nokia has done me well with the phone and camera. I absolutely love WP7/8. I gave up my IOS and android devices years ago too.

    Bottom line, I am really considering getting the 1020. It would be great to have. The camera is enough of an upgrade if you can do it or you can see it being useful.

    I agree hardware wise, it is old/current, but since has windows phone been spec at the max? Have we complained too much?! I wish the battery was better, but no deal breaker. Wireless charging... Yeah, you can use the case, but how many cases and accessories will one need to buy for this phone? The only thing holding me back is a real "new" phone in the 3rd/4th qtr.
    07-13-2013 12:46 PM
  2. Reflexx's Avatar
    The camera tech in the 1020 is amazing.

    It is not a 920 upgrade. It is a new series for people who put the camera as their main priority on the phone.

    In that regard, it's a HUGE upgrade over anything on the market. Nothing else at retail comes close.

    When it comes to upgrade time, and the next gen of phones are out, we'll have the choice of the 9xx series of 10xx series. And the only difference might be the camera.

    I will say that I am not getting the 1020. And it's not because I don't think it's a great phone.

    I am disappointed in the lack of wireless charging. I don't want to make my wireless chargers useless. I also dont want to spend extra money for a wireless charging shell. I hope that the next ten will include wireless charging.
    07-13-2013 12:47 PM
  3. JustToClarify's Avatar
    You have actually no idea what you are talking about and should just stop posting "information". BSI is superior to FSI because [COLOR=#000000][FONT=sans-serif]the wiring is behind the photocathode layer, allowing more light onto the sensor, hence better low-light performance. Everyone knows that and it's common knowledge. It's one of the reasons why the 808 didn't do as well in low-light.
    Err what? There is a ton of 808 low-light pictures on flickr and everywhere around that look fantastic, way better than any official Nokia samples from 1020...

    here is just one example for you and since you say you are not lazy freely go and find other examples

    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2343DrX30k.jpg

    can you show me 1020 image that has even close quality? Up to this day, I haven't found any.

    When it comes to camera phones and point-n-shoots, BSI is always the preferred (albeit more expensive) solution. With DSLR, it's less important because the sensor is already massive (by comparison) and you can use low f-stop lens (F/1.2, f/1.4, etc) to compensate. Mobiles and PNS don't have that luxury, hence why BSI is such a big deal. It's also super expensive to make a BSI DSLR-sized sensor.
    DSLRs are already expensive especially those professional so bigger price is not the problem for them, and if BSI were so good nobody would mess with another lens instead of having better sensor at all conditions.

    You say BSI is great for phones, all phones I have seen with BSI sensor have unnatural colors, oversharpening and black spots/lines which make picture imperfect. Including 1020.


    FSI makes no sense from an engineering perspective. It's just cheaper.
    Yeah, Hasselblad is known for cutting the costs in their cameras...

    Dude, just stop...you're killing me
    it's not me, it's arguments...sorry if you can't live with them
    07-13-2013 01:14 PM
  4. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    As others have said, I see this as a new series, not a successor to (or replacement for) the 920. That said, I would ditch my own 920 and get this if it meant being able to print more photos.

    I'm fine with the $300, but I'm not sure I can get past the idea of paying AT&T an extra upgrade fee on top of a new contract.
    Last edited by Chris_Kez; 07-13-2013 at 01:32 PM.
    07-13-2013 01:16 PM
  5. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    Here is one comparison bethween 808,925 and 920
    Nokia Lumia 925, le nostre prove di scatto e riprese video a confronto con Lumia 920 e 808 PureView | Windowsteca – Windows Phone Blog

    Those 808 shots doesn't look that good to me. I actually prefer 925 shots over 808. And when it comes to low light 925 beats 808 easily. I bet 1020 can give quite nice low light shots over 808 and 925.
    07-13-2013 03:34 PM
  6. John20212's Avatar
    Here is one comparison bethween 808,925 and 920
    Nokia Lumia 925, le nostre prove di scatto e riprese video a confronto con Lumia 920 e 808 PureView | Windowsteca – Windows Phone Blog

    Those 808 shots doesn't look that good to me. I actually prefer 925 shots over 808. And when it comes to low light 925 beats 808 easily. I bet 1020 can give quite nice low light shots over 808 and 925.
    From those samples you can on most of them see more noise on the 925 on close up and the colors look more real on the 808 compared to the 925.

    I wonder when some reviews with direct 808 vs 1020 comparisons start comming out.
    07-13-2013 03:51 PM
  7. Michael Spencer's Avatar
    From those samples you can on most of them see more noise on the 925 on close up and the colors look more real on the 808 compared to the 925.

    I wonder when some reviews with direct 808 vs 1020 comparisons start comming out.
    Definitely want to see that! Still no photo sample but it the colour reproduction might be different on 1020:

    Nokia Lumia 1020 preview: Take two - GSMArena.com
    07-13-2013 03:54 PM
  8. JustToClarify's Avatar
    Here is one comparison bethween 808,925 and 920
    Nokia Lumia 925, le nostre prove di scatto e riprese video a confronto con Lumia 920 e 808 PureView | Windowsteca – Windows Phone Blog

    Those 808 shots doesn't look that good to me. I actually prefer 925 shots over 808. And when it comes to low light 925 beats 808 easily. I bet 1020 can give quite nice low light shots over 808 and 925.
    808 has bad auto mode, in creative mode its far better than any other phone
    07-13-2013 04:21 PM
  9. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    So what I've gathered is:

    1. If you have a 92x variant it's not worth it to upgrade unless you REALLY!! need good photos.
    2. Is a good upgrade if you still have a WP7 phone or a another low model below the 92x series.
    3. Not a good upgrade because it doesn't have a bajillion cores and 1080p.
    4. Not a good upgrade because the price is too high/ and carrier exclusive.

    Interesting, points. It's a great phone I'm 50/50 on the matter as I like taking photos. The guy wanting the latest and greatest of everything clearly is in the wrong camp for cell phones. Its an alternative phone catering to a market who happens to like pictures possibly the beginning photographer/instagram crowd. It's not a bad decision. If you feel like it's not worthy keep being patient. One day pigs will fly as well if you keep being patient.
    Nataku4ca likes this.
    07-13-2013 07:35 PM
  10. Michael Spencer's Avatar
    So what I've gathered is:

    1. If you have a 92x variant it's not worth it to upgrade unless you REALLY!! need good photos.
    2. Is a good upgrade if you still have a WP7 phone or a another low model below the 92x series.
    3. Not a good upgrade because it doesn't have a bajillion cores and 1080p.
    4. Not a good upgrade because the price is too high/ and carrier exclusive.

    Interesting, points. It's a great phone I'm 50/50 on the matter as I like taking photos. The guy wanting the latest and greatest of everything clearly is in the wrong camp for cell phones. Its an alternative phone catering to a market who happens to like pictures possibly the beginning photographer/instagram crowd. It's not a bad decision. If you feel like it's not worthy keep being patient. One day pigs will fly as well if you keep being patient.
    It's like customising an laptop - if you need faster GPU - you pay for the upgrade.
    Base component are largely fixed between the 925 and 1020 - this neatly reduces platform dev cost.
    So if you need the extra photo capability, you pay for it through the nose! (extra $250)


    Had Nokia increased 1020's CPU performance, the battery would have suffered. In turn needing a thicker body. Instead - they quite smartly decided to milk the last drop of the S4 MSM8960 chip first used in 920; it's not bad strategy as it's a potent chip. If it's not broken, don't fix it - right? So when next gen comes by - it'll be a clean sweep. In the same sense - they didn't change 925/928's CPU. Even though the handset undergoes 6month cycle, the underlying platform is on 12month cycle.

    This is pretty neat as on WP platform - given Nokia's sole focus on WP platform, they really aren't gonna be beaten by HTC's CPU muscle alone (Love to see if HTC would porting their "Ultrapixel" to WP). That said, this is a risky strategy as it assumes there is no like-for-like competitor. (HTC's doing not that great financially.)
    Last edited by Michael Spencer; 07-13-2013 at 07:59 PM.
    Mach_E likes this.
    07-13-2013 07:44 PM
  11. JustToClarify's Avatar
    So what I've gathered is:

    1. If you have a 92x variant it's not worth it to upgrade unless you REALLY!! need good photos.
    2. Is a good upgrade if you still have a WP7 phone or a another low model below the 92x series.
    3. Not a good upgrade because it doesn't have a bajillion cores and 1080p.
    4. Not a good upgrade because the price is too high/ and carrier exclusive.

    Interesting, points. It's a great phone I'm 50/50 on the matter as I like taking photos. The guy wanting the latest and greatest of everything clearly is in the wrong camp for cell phones. Its an alternative phone catering to a market who happens to like pictures possibly the beginning photographer/instagram crowd. It's not a bad decision. If you feel like it's not worthy keep being patient. One day pigs will fly as well if you keep being patient.
    1. It's actually perfect upgrade as you will feel like at home, only with a very good camera unlike 920.
    2. If you have money and like WP just go for it.
    3. That doesn't matter since WP is fluid with this hardware, it doesn't need more cores nor is 1080p noticeable on a tiny phone screen.
    4. It all depends, if you want modern OS with a good camera this is your only choice, if you have money buy it and if you don't - leave it or steal it.
    07-13-2013 08:09 PM
  12. Residing's Avatar
    What I find interesting is that had this device NOT been planned for release this quarter, Lumia 92x owners wouldn't even be talking about upgrades at this point in time; they would simply be happy using their devices which have only been on the market for eight months or less.

    Besides, those 92x users who just signed a contract are locked in for about two years (if US) anyway; given how many people are balking at the price of this device, it's hard to believe that any of them would pay the ETF to get Lumia 1020 anyway.
    Last edited by Residing; 07-13-2013 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Spelling
    07-13-2013 08:56 PM
  13. vlad0's Avatar
    It seems like a lot of people will try to convince themselves that its not a worthy upgrade, but I think it is in pretty much every way...
    07-13-2013 09:14 PM
  14. SwimSwim's Avatar
    Looks like an awesome device. This is definetly a worthy successor to my Lumia 900. I love it and all, but I picked up my 900 on launch day, it's time for something new.

    But my two big caveats are:
    1) Price - This is a [I]really[/i} expensive phone. If anything were to happen to it, I'd be really screwed over...
    2) Model Refresh in the Fall - If the rumors are true, Nokia will be launching their third generation Lumia devices this upcoming fall. While I love my Lumia 900, words can't describe how flustered I was when mere months after buying it, my phone was obsolete and overshadowed by the Lumia 920. I don't want to buy this phone, and then have just months later, Nokia release this exact same phone, but with a faster processor, built in wireless charging, 1080p screen, etc. I understand in the world of tech, the next great thing is always around the corner, but most manufacturers at least let their flagship device stay king for a year. Meanwhile, Nokia is constantly shaking up the monarchy.

    Not entirely sure whether to buy now and risk it, or just wait a few months longer. Nonetheless, the idea of a 41MP camera phone is really appealing. Words can't describe how many good shots I've missed because my dSLR was too bulky to carry with me at an event, and I had to settle for less-than-satisfactory Lumia 900 photos.
    07-13-2013 09:16 PM
  15. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    Looks like an awesome device...But my two big caveats are:
    1) Price - This is a [I]really[/i} expensive phone.
    2) Model Refresh in the Fall - If the rumors are true, Nokia will be launching their third generation Lumia devices this upcoming fall
    .
    What have you heard about new Lumias in the fall?
    07-13-2013 10:05 PM
  16. nessinhaw's Avatar
    What have you heard about new Lumias in the fall?
    well, it is known GDR3 will support 1080p screens and quad-core...so i believe, for the 920 successor, it will be at least a quad-core!
    maverick786us likes this.
    07-13-2013 10:36 PM
  17. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    well, it is known GDR3 will support 1080p screens and quad-core...so i believe, for the 920 successor, it will be at least a quad-core!
    It's quite easy to guess next high end Lumia series specs.
    Quad core
    2Gb RAM
    1080p screen between 4,7-5"
    13Mpix camera at least, OIS and maybe some new unannounced camera tech on the side.
    Aluminium body maybe

    920 camera sucks most of a time. I was more happy of image quality before first camera software update. Now all my photos are filled of that hideous plotchy noise and i can't stand looking those photos from my computer screen. Before update photos were almost noise free and sharp enough. Actually i don't know why people complained about sharpness of 920 shots before update. Photos are fine if not looking full screen but i like looking them that way.

    I am definetely going to upgrade. There is one but and that is release date here in Finland. Even 925 is yet unannounced and it is probably October when 1020 is released here :( By then next launch of Lumia series on the door and ultimately it pours down to prize. It very well maybe that i suck it down and tolerate that crappy IQ of 920 and just wait.

    Hopefully there is fixes coming to 920 camera IQ on GDR2 update. Then it would make life bit easier :D
    07-14-2013 03:19 AM
  18. JustToClarify's Avatar
    you can't fix the bad sensor, and if you are really interested in camera quality 1020 is your only choice(on WP)
    07-14-2013 04:54 AM
  19. jonathonpm's Avatar
    I have been wondering if the 1020 is a worthy upgrade, the camera looks pretty sweet and I look forward to playing with it in a shop but the rest as you say is much of the same. I don't think the screen needs to be any bigger, it is a pretty good size. Design wise I would have liked less bezel and maybe something a bit more radical, the design is still very similar to that of the 920. Updated internals would be good and obviously 2GB of ram is a nice addition but the 920 is still speedy and it is the way WP manages app resumes that is the frustrating part of using the phone. The loss of wireless charging sucks as I love that and am not buying a cover just for it.
    07-14-2013 09:08 AM
  20. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    What I find interesting is that had this device NOT been planned for release this quarter, Lumia 92x owners wouldn't even be talking about upgrades at this point in time; they would simply be happy using their devices which have only been on the market for eight months or less.

    Besides, those 92x users who just signed a contract are locked in for about two years (if US) anyway; given how many people are balking at the price of this device, it's hard to believe that any of them would pay the ETF to get Lumia 1020 anyway.
    Well I buy my phones off contract. So most likely which I dont know how many people do the same as I do, but I buy the phone outright, take my sim card out of my old phone, drop it into the new phone, VIOLA! New phone, contract stays the same no ETF.
    07-14-2013 12:07 PM
  21. Huime's Avatar
    Err what? There is a ton of 808 low-light pictures on flickr and everywhere around that look fantastic, way better than any official Nokia samples from 1020...

    here is just one example for you and since you say you are not lazy freely go and find other examples

    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2343DrX30k.jpg

    can you show me 1020 image that has even close quality? Up to this day, I haven't found any.



    DSLRs are already expensive especially those professional so bigger price is not the problem for them, and if BSI were so good nobody would mess with another lens instead of having better sensor at all conditions.

    You say BSI is great for phones, all phones I have seen with BSI sensor have unnatural colors, oversharpening and black spots/lines which make picture imperfect. Including 1020.




    Yeah, Hasselblad is known for cutting the costs in their cameras...



    it's not me, it's arguments...sorry if you can't live with them
    You know, empirical based engineering is very bad.
    07-14-2013 07:57 PM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    You have actually no idea what you are talking about and should just stop posting "information". BSI is superior to FSI because the wiring is behind the photocathode layer, allowing more light onto the sensor, hence better low-light performance. Everyone knows that and it's common knowledge. It's one of the reasons why the 808 didn't do as well in low-light.

    When it comes to camera phones and point-n-shoots, BSI is always the preferred (albeit more expensive) solution. With DSLR, it's less important because the sensor is already massive (by comparison) and you can use low f-stop lens (F/1.2, f/1.4, etc) to compensate. Mobiles and PNS don't have that luxury, hence why BSI is such a big deal. It's also super expensive to make a BSI DSLR-sized sensor.

    FSI makes no sense from an engineering perspective. It's just cheaper.

    For the lazy: Back-illuminated sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Sony Global - Technology - "Exmor R"
    FAQ: What


    Dude, just stop...you're killing me
    English Dammit! This is a family-friendly forum!
    07-14-2013 08:22 PM
  23. Cod3rror's Avatar
    I agree, 1020 turned out to be a big disappointment. It looked so good on paper, 41MP, OIS, BSI, 6 lenses, etc... I would've seriously considered it, despite Windows Phone 8, but reality turned out that 808 blasts it in quality. I was disappointed when I found out it had a smaller sensor and knew it would not live up to the hype.

    Ever since Nokia switched to WP, their camera quality has been garbage. Just very unpleasant images, grainy, noisy, very rough textured, strange fuzzy edges, colours all over the place, over-processing. It's like they forgot everything. The algorithms they had on Symbian were much, much more impressive.

    Show me a single 1020 sample that looks like this...

    http://storage0.dms.go4it.ro/media/2...df901b57b6.jpg

    The above image is a 808 sample from when it was announced, look how smooth and soft that image looks, very detailed, yet completely smooth with no grain, no noise.

    Here's another, lower light, yet the same perfectly smooth, noise free image quality.

    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2047vwIh1r.jpg

    More,

    http://cdn.gottabemobile.com/wp-cont...5.jpg?dur=1007

    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...0749j0PV2J.jpg

    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...1703rv1Gl2.jpg




    I don't know what Nokia was thinking with 1020. Here's a 5MP sample...

    http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/wp-con...020-pro-17.jpg

    It looks totally average, with artifacts, noise, grain and overall very artificial compared to 808. The beauty of 808 was that at 5MP, you could go 100% zoom and the image looked incredibly smooth. 1020's 5MP is like any other phone's.

    Here's an image of New York from 1020,
    All sizes | Untitled | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    That's sweet... now look at 808's Dubai,
    http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o...l/81189830.jpg

    At 100% zoom it looks much nicer and more pleasant and less processed than 1020.



    Bottomline, 808 is better, much better, 1020 is just an improved 920, in 1020's case, 41MP IS a gimmick. And since Nokia is asking so much for 1020, it's absolutely not worth it. It would've gladly taken a few more mm of thickness but 808 sized sensor, maybe even bigger.
    Last edited by Cod3rror; 07-15-2013 at 07:57 PM.
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    07-15-2013 07:30 PM
  24. MacDaMachine's Avatar
    Cod3rror, you should wait for side by side camera comparisons instead of going off sample photos.
    Residing likes this.
    07-15-2013 07:48 PM
  25. JustToClarify's Avatar
    Ever since Nokia switched to WP, their camera quality has been garbage. Just very unpleasant images, grainy, noisy, very rough textured, strange fuzzy edges, colours all over the place, over-processing. It's like they forgot everything. The algorithms they had on Symbian were much, much more impressive.
    I don't think that problem is OS related, it's just that these new BSI sensors are made for general yoof population who like punchy colors and don't care for some more "serious" things like noise artefacts color fidelity etc.

    Cod3rror, you should wait for side by side camera comparisons instead of going off sample photos.
    you don't need side by side if difference is this big now, there is no freakin' way they can improve things in next month or two
    07-15-2013 08:00 PM
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