07-16-2013 11:10 AM
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  1. Serious Tone's Avatar
    If you want to pay over 800 buck for a camera that will take pictures the same as the 1020 or slightly better then do that if you want something that costs less around 650 bucks that can also make phone calls then get the 1020. This will surely take better pictures than a $400 point and shoot.
    An 800 dollar dslr will always take significantly better pictures than the 1020, even if it has less megapixels. Those 41 megapixels packed into that sensor the size of your pinky nail will not capture as much light creating noiser and generally not as high resolution pictures as a full frame 35mm, 21 megapixels even, sensor dslr.

    But yes, comparing a phone camera to a dslr is pointless. If the choice is between the 1020 and a high end point and shoot, I'd still probably go with the 1020.
    MerlinJnr likes this.
    07-14-2013 10:38 PM
  2. Kram Devil's Avatar
    I was searching youtube for unboxing vidz on lumia 520 to 920 as well as information on 1020 and all the ads that came before the vidz were of the Samsung Smart Camera NX something. Apparently Samsung and Google are monitoring the Lumia story closely and they are gonna use the 1020 vs SLR argument. You guys have the same thing?
    07-15-2013 02:57 AM
  3. LMZR's Avatar
    I was searching youtube for unboxing vidz on lumia 520 to 920 as well as information on 1020 and all the ads that came before the vidz were of the Samsung Smart Camera NX something. Apparently Samsung and Google are monitoring the Lumia story closely and they are gonna use the 1020 vs SLR argument. You guys have the same thing?
    Nope, but what annoys me is that Samsung will say it's far better than the Lumia 1020.

    That S4 Zoom is an absolute joke. So is the Galaxy NX.
    07-15-2013 04:10 AM
  4. vlad0's Avatar
    An 800 dollar dslr will always take significantly better pictures than the 1020, even if it has less megapixels. Those 41 megapixels packed into that sensor the size of your pinky nail will not capture as much light creating noiser and generally not as high resolution pictures as a full frame 35mm, 21 megapixels even, sensor dslr.

    But yes, comparing a phone camera to a dslr is pointless. If the choice is between the 1020 and a high end point and shoot, I'd still probably go with the 1020.
    Generally, yes .. but it depends on the DSLR and the lens you are using. I have an older Canon Xti and to be honest with you I don't find much of a difference in terms of noise levels b/w my 41mpix machine and the camera.

    Of course, I am talking about daylight conditions..

    you can see for yourself here: http://sdrv.ms/135sTcG

    I've also done some comps against a smaller P&S, but still considered a good camera: http://sdrv.ms/XHteAL

    and here are some against one of the higher ends, Sony RX 100: http://sdrv.ms/18j1cFG

    against Canon G15: http://sdrv.ms/10VZGDU

    Of course, if you put it up against something like a Nikon D800 equipped with a 2000 dollar lens.. well, it doesn't stand a chance.

    The 41mpix tech shines in good condition and low ISO.. the lens is phenomenal considering the size, and the amount of detail it has to resolve.

    Look at this: http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2306wX8Tj2.jpg

    Very DSLR like..
    07-15-2013 04:34 AM
  5. haggishunter81's Avatar
    Really surprised folk think that this phone will be so incredible that it can be a good alternative to a proper camera, in short no, I carry a nice compact camera around if I don't have my dslr and even though my 920 can take some impressive night shots, my compact is just better, as far as a comparison to the Canon 500d I just sold, no contest, that goes for the 7d that I just bought too. It's a proper tool for the job, not a multifunctional toy which can pull loads of neat tricks.... But I'm still looking forward to having a play with one though, I really like the lumia range and I love my 920, apart from the constant freezing I have put up with......
    N_LaRUE likes this.
    07-15-2013 04:38 AM
  6. Kram Devil's Avatar
    LMZR, after some time it's still the same thing for me. When I search youtube for vidz on lumia unboxings the advert before they let you view the clip you actually want to watch is the samsung smart camera nx300. Google is actively tweeking their search algorithm so that people who try to look at lumia devices are served an advert for a samsung smart camera nx 300. Pretty sneaky of them.
    07-15-2013 05:40 AM
  7. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    In my case, I already have a great camera with my Canon EOS, but I'm not a professional photographer, so no way I'm carrying it around all the time.

    My justification for a Lumia 1020 is that why on earth would I carry multiple devices on a daily basis? I'll carry the 92X or 1020 as an incredible daily driver and save the Canon for special occasions.
    07-15-2013 05:46 AM
  8. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I don't personally see this as a fair comparison as they are completely different devices and take pictures in completely different ways.

    Regardless of the camera, the 1020 is still a smartphone. So if you want the functionality of a smartphone and a suitable camera then a 1020 will suit you.

    If you want a professional camera then you're looking at a DSLR. A DSLR, last time I checked, didn't have smartphone capabilities. There's also compact DSLR cameras now which are easier to carry and the picture quality is fantastic. Regardless how good the picture quality you get out of the 1020 it is not going to be comparable to a DSLR.

    On top of that there are many compact cameras (a lot cheaper than smartphones) that still blow away most smartphone cameras in picture quality.

    If you want a smartphone with a good camera for pictures on the go, get the 1020. If you want to take high quality pictures as a hobby (or eventually professional) then get a DSLR.
    07-15-2013 05:54 AM
  9. jonathan sink's Avatar
    Yeah no camera phone take as a good a picture as a dslr. That said I don't carry my canon everywhere, I usually plan taking it out, or for family events like birthdays. But for everyday normal activity I just don't so I think that's the void being filled here. Even for some people this will be good enough to justify leaving the p&s home.
    07-15-2013 05:55 AM
  10. LMZR's Avatar
    LMZR, after some time it's still the same thing for me. When I search youtube for vidz on lumia unboxings the advert before they let you view the clip you actually want to watch is the samsung smart camera nx300. Google is actively tweeking their search algorithm so that people who try to look at lumia devices are served an advert for a samsung smart camera nx 300. Pretty sneaky of them.
    And THAT'S why we all love google...
    haggishunter81 likes this.
    07-15-2013 06:01 AM
  11. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    This is the most informative paper on the FSI vs. BSI that I've read so far:

    http://www.aptina.com/news/FSI-BSI-WhitePaper.pdf

    For now I think that the BSI tech is simply a workaround to allow for larger mpix counts on smaller sensors..



    Precisly.

    A good cameraphone is the perfect comapnion to a DSLR, not a replacement. What gets replaced here is the middle ground.. all those compact P&S and event he high end compacts.
    Reading the fsi-bsi white paper, I have my own conclusions:
    - Image processing algorithms have to improve in BSI sensor and it's harder than in FSI ones. There are some problems dued to BSI sensor as those that we call "black spots" (see burst mode examples in Sony xperia Z, where images aren't as processed as in normal mode)

    - A 1.4 microns pixel BSI sensor has slightly better IQ than a 1.4 FSI one.

    - A 1.4 microns pixel FSI sensor has better IQ than a 1.12 BSI one, mostly in low light.

    - 808 has better IQ than 1020 will, even (mostly) in low light.

    -------------------------

    OIS is just a real improvement for video and a few low light situations, I think it doesn't compensates. You don't need it in flash pics, or even in low light portraits with no fladh, because people aren't statues and you can't have a good shoot at 1/2s in where people aren't completely still.

    Where is pixel binning? Looking at the Nokia examples, 5 mpx pictures in 1020 seems simply as resized from 38 mpx ones, like we can do in any app or photoshop, I can't see a real improvement in IQ like it did in 808 PV.
    07-15-2013 06:09 AM
  12. Dare2Blink's Avatar
    "stabilization van" are you serious? you mean the add that was just illustrating the effect of OIS (which they latter replicated with an actual 920 with the same effect). It is obvious that the 1020 is going to take better overall pictures than the 808, the OIS alone will make a huge difference in low light conditions, and judging form the software improvements form the 920 to the 925, it is clear that nokia wastes no time in greatly improving software algorithms for their phones.
    07-15-2013 06:17 AM
  13. JustToClarify's Avatar
    "stabilization van" are you serious?
    Yupp, that's example of bad marketing for me. It would be another story if they stated it's just an example of what OIS can do done by professional equipment, but they started justifying themselves only after people got their "trick".

    It is obvious that the 1020 is going to take better overall pictures than the 808, the OIS alone will make a huge difference in low light conditions, and judging form the software improvements form the 920 to the 925, it is clear that nokia wastes no time in greatly improving software algorithms for their phones.
    software algorithm can't compensate for hardware difference here, just look at official samples from 808 and compare them with those from 1020, OIS makes differnece only in static scenes where you don't have time to settle your hand, such situations are very very rare especially in mobile photography
    07-15-2013 06:30 AM
  14. Dare2Blink's Avatar
    What makes you think that the 1020 won't allow a burst of shots ? You can use the nokia smartcam app that takes 10 consecutive shots, its perfect for taking pictures of kids.
    07-15-2013 06:50 AM
  15. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Yeah no camera phone take as a good a picture as a dslr. That said I don't carry my canon everywhere, I usually plan taking it out, or for family events like birthdays. But for everyday normal activity I just don't so I think that's the void being filled here. Even for some people this will be good enough to justify leaving the p&s home.
    I think most people leave their P&S at home these days. Majority of high end phones take a picture that most people will be happy with. However, if you want good pictures a quality compact camera still beats any high end phone camera hands down and any DSLR will make both compacts and phone camera pictures look low res by comparison. A lot depends on the person taking the picture too. As someone already stated, good hardware beats software, always.
    07-15-2013 06:51 AM
  16. Juanma Herrera's Avatar
    OIS is great for night landscape. You can shoot with lumia 920 at 1/2s taking care with no trepidation.

    But for night portrait, the most of the pics we usually shot with a phone, you need 1/16s (or minimum 1/8s), and in those speed I get no trepidated images in my non-OISed Xperia Z, so really its better for you to have a better noise control at higher iso than OIS.

    Enviado desde mi C6603 usando Tapatalk 4 Beta
    07-15-2013 06:55 AM
  17. Tempest790's Avatar
    Does anyone think Nokia should have come up with a 'mini' proprietary lens attachment for the 1020? If they are going to continue the Pureview in future models, I think having actual attachments would smoke the competition and make a bigger argument for the amateur photographer. I could definitely see field reporters and other photographers always keeping a 1020 on hand with a small pouch for some lenses. Much more portable than even a Sony Nex camera or the like.

    Maybe they could have called the attachments the "N" mount for Nokia. ;)
    aaa6112 likes this.
    07-15-2013 07:13 AM
  18. jonathan sink's Avatar
    I think most people leave their P&S at home these days. Majority of high end phones take a picture that most people will be happy with. However, if you want good pictures a quality compact camera still beats any high end phone camera hands down and any DSLR will make both compacts and phone camera pictures look low res by comparison. A lot depends on the person taking the picture too. As someone already stated, good hardware beats software, always.
    I agree with you just saying that "some" may find it "good enough" not that the camera phone is as good.
    07-15-2013 08:06 AM
  19. WP7_Genius's Avatar
    I don't think any phone will ever replace a DSLR, because DSLR is designed to be one thing and one thing only vs the 1020 is a Phone 1st and Camera second. I would say if your going somewhere were you don't feel safe carrying a $1000+ camera then the 1020 is one hell of a backup for that. I am not a pro photographer but I do love the 920 camera, I know I would drool over the 1020 camera. I would select this over your typical PnS camera though.
    07-15-2013 09:01 AM
  20. Bahamen's Avatar
    I have 3 cameras: Sony NEX, Nokia 808 Pureview and Lumia 920. The NEX having APSC sensor is technically capable of image quality equivalent to entry-level DSLRs. However, under good lighting conditions, the 808 is so good in 41MP, that it greatly outresolves the NEX. Therefore, I actually prefer shooting with the 808 more than the NEX (in good lighting conditions). The amount of details and sharpness is incredible.

    Low light images are a different story.

    The 808 is also capable of taking great low-light pictures in downsampled mode, although overall the NEX still performs better in low-light thanks to the large sensor. The 920, however, performs very well in low-light - I will say it can even outperform the 808 in situations where the Optical Image Stabilization can help to keep the shutter open longer. I have no difficulties shooting with 1/3 seconds exposure at ISO 100 with the Lumia 920. The 920's OIS, and the 808's 41MP large sensor, are essentially complementary features. So combining both features into the Lumia 1020 will, I strongly believe, be a huge improvement especially when shooting in low light. Imagine having all your shots (daytime and night time) all taken with base ISO 100?

    A further comment about the NEX's OIS. Although the NEX also has Optical SteadyShot (where the OIS is located in the lens rather than camera body), it is nearly impossible for me to take pictures handheld with shutter speeds slower than 1/10 seconds. This is possibly due to the weight of the device. Many low-light shots had to be taken at ISO 1600 or above. In contrast, I can shoot at 1/3 seconds exposure with Lumia 920 relatively effortlessly. So when comparing low-light capabilities, although the NEX has far larger sensor size, it may require images to be taken at faster shutter speed, which means you need to use higher ISO setting to offset this, which in turn means you get more noise.

    Of course, the NEX gives you a lot more possibilities. You can change to brighter lens, fisheye, macro, telephoto lens, etc. I use a third-party f/1.8 55mm lens together with the NEX, the bokeh effect can never be matched by any smartphone camera. But this means spending a few hundred dollars more on additional lens. With just the kit lens, I find that the difference in image quality between NEX and 808 is not that great. At least not great enough for me to justify carrying an extra (and relatively heavier) device everywhere. Of course technically the NEX is still a better camera overall. But to me, the 808 is more than good enough to use 95% of the time. The only 5% that I use the NEX is for very special occasions.

    To put this into perspective, my previous phone was the Nokia N8. It is still considered a good cameraphone by today's standards, but my usage of N8 and NEX was probably around 50%-50%. This was mainly because the quality difference between the N8 and NEX is still quite significant. With 808, the gap is a lot smaller which resulted in the NEX sitting in the cabinet most of the time nowadays. The 808 is really that good.

    It is cliche that the best camera is the one you have with you. I find this to be absolutely true, magical moments of inspiration can happen anytime, anywhere. By having an awesome camera with you all the time, it will really expand your horizon, and you will find yourself taking more and more pictures. This will become a hobby that you can indulge ANYTIME, rather than one that requires some planning in advance (taking out a DSLR must be a deliberate decision). As you get more and more into it, perhaps you can then consider more specialized equipments possibly even higher-end DSLRs with good lens. But I will recommend the 1020 for starting out a hobby for the simple reason that it will give you a deeper appreciation for photography once you start taking lots of routine pictures with it.
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    07-15-2013 10:04 AM
  21. xconomicron's Avatar
    I am an ameteur photographer who shoots at events. I've mentioned this several times now already that here in the US, some events do not let a person in with no more than just a phone. -If I have to guess, it is usually because of security reasons... I've actually missed out on a few gigs/$$ because of this. -That is why I got the 808 last year. It may not be the best alternative to my DSLR, but I do find it still useful in a sense where I can get the job done and still have decent looking stills/videos.
    07-15-2013 12:52 PM
  22. index1366's Avatar
    For a phone and a casual photo when your DSLR is not around ---> 1020.
    For expert-grade photos - a DSLR.

    The price tag is almost the same for a decent DSLR as far as i know (700$), and the DSLR offers a more options to configure. I know, the 1020 offers also much options with the Pro Camera app, but the DSLR has much bigger lenses and imaging processors, which are built specifically to process images and nothing else. I don't say that th 1020s' isn't, but you get the point.
    07-15-2013 02:45 PM
  23. Pete C's Avatar
    After buying the Lumia 920 to serve as my primary camera I quickly discovered that it was not up to the task. Shots are nice, but the grain and general lack of sharpness bothered me over time. It could not capture the shadows accurately in my child's face. So, I bought a Nikon P7700 which is an "enthusiast" point-and-shoot camera with a 1/1.7" sensor. Let me just say that this camera utterly and completely blows away the 920. It is not even close, and there is no facet where the 920 is superior. I am still blown away with the sharpness of the P7700. Noise levels are not that great in low light, but in daylight it competes with an SLR.

    That said, I just took a look at the sample shots here: Nokia Lumia 1020 picture gallery: zoom in – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog

    Once again...there is no comparison here to a good camera, even a point-and-shoot, and certainly not an SLR. There is just too much noise and a lack of sharpness once again with this new camera. I see light and colors bleeding into other colors. Is it nice for a phone? Certainly, but once you zoom in (which is what they are telling us to do!) you can easily see its shortcomings. Look at the wooden boards the woman is walking over. Looks very 920-ish to me. The old man's hair is riddled with noise. On the grass scene, zoom and look to the right at the group of three people. That is not crop-worthy detail...VERY blurry.
    07-15-2013 03:06 PM
  24. JustToClarify's Avatar
    After buying the Lumia 920 to serve as my primary camera I quickly discovered that it was not up to the task. Shots are nice, but the grain and general lack of sharpness bothered me over time.
    you could know that without buying should just ask people from photography forums, there is no way you can squeeze quality from such a small sensor :)
    07-15-2013 04:08 PM
  25. vlad0's Avatar
    Some of the images have very good sharpness toward the middle of the frame..

    This:http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2877/9...5360efaf_o.jpg

    after a resize:



    pretty impressive

    you could know that without buying should just ask people from photography forums, there is no way you can squeeze quality from such a small sensor :)
    True that.

    I still think that the camera manufacturers should advertise the size of the sensors and the size of the pixels instead of the mpix count.. its soo misleading..
    Juanma Herrera likes this.
    07-15-2013 07:48 PM
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