11-05-2013 06:02 PM
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  1. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    What I want to know is, do the pictures still look good after you zoom in. Case in point, on my 920 when you zoom in and take a photo the picture comes out looking grainy and tired looking. Is that the case here? I really would like a phone to be able to zoom in before the shot and still look great after the shot. That was one of my main complaints with my 920 camera, could never really zoom in.
    07-23-2013 02:28 AM
  2. LMZR's Avatar
    Is it me or there is a ton of people signing up on WPC just to post hate about the 1020.
    theefman likes this.
    07-23-2013 02:43 AM
  3. Deutscher2's Avatar
    What I want to know is, do the pictures still look good after you zoom in. Case in point, on my 920 when you zoom in and take a photo the picture comes out looking grainy and tired looking. Is that the case here? I really would like a phone to be able to zoom in before the shot and still look great after the shot. That was one of my main complaints with my 920 camera, could never really zoom in.
    The 920 has NO ZOOM.
    SwimSwim likes this.
    07-23-2013 03:15 AM
  4. ALpHa.Q.RoUgH's Avatar
    The 920 has NO ZOOM.
    Well that explains why the quality was poor then.
    07-23-2013 03:28 AM
  5. Bigsensor's Avatar
    The 920 has NO ZOOM.
    The Nokia Lumia 920 has a 4x digital zoom feature.
    07-23-2013 03:36 AM
  6. Deutscher2's Avatar
    The Nokia Lumia 920 has a 4x digital zoom feature.
    This "Digital Zoom" is not a Zoom in a Photographs viewpoint.
    You can zoom digital 999x and it's still the same data which get worse and worse.
    SwimSwim likes this.
    07-23-2013 04:07 AM
  7. Joe920's Avatar
    The stadium is well lit, but still.. these are very impressive.
    OMG so much grain!! Oh wait, those are people in the stands.

    Amazing pics, wish I wasn't 8 months into a 2-year contract. No disrespect to my 920..
    07-23-2013 05:08 AM
  8. Spinefarm's Avatar
    Made an account to see the pictures posted here, but I figured I'd post one as well. Not one taken with a 1020, but a dslr.

    http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3964/mg4799.jpg

    Pictures can be grainy with expensive hardware with a low ISO as well if the photographer doesn't know what he's doing. You should wait for someone who's actually knowledgeable about these things without raging about IQ. Hopefully Nokia sends a few review phones to some photography sites.
    Nataku4ca likes this.
    07-23-2013 05:37 AM
  9. Bigsensor's Avatar
    This "Digital Zoom" is not a Zoom in a Photographs viewpoint.
    You can zoom digital 999x and it's still the same data which get worse and worse.
    Than you can stop talking about zoom, because there is no such thing as an optical zoom available.

    Your viewpoint is not a "photographers" viewpoint. I don't want to miss the "clear view" zoom
    on the Sony RX100 which is entering even the DSLR segment. There is no need to talk
    about "999 x" nonsense.

    The 808 has more "zoom potential", however the story about "lossless zoom" is a fairy tale,
    since the resolution of details drops by closing in on the native pixel level which is on a
    24 inch screen in regualr view not hard to detect.
    07-23-2013 05:42 AM
  10. Deutscher2's Avatar
    Than you can stop talking about zoom, because there is no such thing as an optical zoom available.
    No Optical Zoom available? There are so much Cameras with Optical Zoom available on the market. There are even mobiles with an Optical Zoom. Even "your" Sony RX100 has an Optical Zoom.
    Are you sure, you talk about the right thing?
    The Lumia 920 has no Zoom, just a function called "Digital Zoom", which has nothing to do with a real Zoom. The "PureView-Zoom" of 1020/808 is again another story.
    07-23-2013 05:49 AM
  11. Bigsensor's Avatar
    No Optical Zoom available? There are so much Cameras with Optical Zoom available on the market. There are even mobiles with an Optical Zoom. Even "your" Sony RX100 has an Optical Zoom.
    Are you sure, you talk about the right thing?
    The Lumia 920 has no Zoom, just a function called "Digital Zoom", which has nothing to do with a real Zoom. The "PureView-Zoom" of 1020/808 is again another story.
    How could I forget that my RX100, Lumix LX7, G11 and Canon EF Zooms are magnifying the subject in front of the lens in an optical way. We are talking here about the Lumia series and
    many times about the comparison with the 808 and each model has it's own approach to zoom into a scene, of course without any change to the DOF, compared to optical zooms.
    The difference is the loss of resolution which can be measured for each Lumia and 808.
    07-23-2013 06:14 AM
  12. B T C's Avatar
    After seeing the stadium pics, I feel a lot more comfortable owning Nokia stock. I might even consider buying more after those pics. I will most certainly hold the photographer responsible for post purchase price performance.

    Is player number 6, Byrd, the guy with the hole in his pants, or whatever it was?
    brianmakris likes this.
    07-23-2013 08:33 AM
  13. vlad0's Avatar

    The 808 has more "zoom potential", however the story about "lossless zoom" is a fairy tale,
    since the resolution of details drops by closing in on the native pixel level which is on a
    24 inch screen in regualr view not hard to detect.
    True.. without oversampling we go down to 1:1 pixel ratio and it looks like any other 1.4 micron jpeg out there.

    This is always a very good visual of what goes on with this system



    Any device with a zoom lens will do better.

    The advantage is that it allows for a very compact design, works better than traditional digital zoom, its smooth, and its silent.

    Works better in video than it does for stills.
    Nataku4ca likes this.
    07-23-2013 08:49 AM
  14. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    People who complain about noise in 1020 5Mpix images don't know that it is Nokias new approach how they process those downsampled images. It is different how they process images in 808. If you look fullres images from 1020 you see that noise which is present in 5Mpix images isn't present in full res images. You don't see that noise if you don't zoom in to them. For me it works well and images look good.

    That comparison bethween 808 and 1020 posted earlier, 1020 looks more pleasant to eye look at.
    07-23-2013 08:53 AM
  15. kennedya's Avatar
    Is it possible the down sampling isn't working properly?
    07-23-2013 09:05 AM
  16. shadyghost's Avatar
    Anyone interested in some video tests of the 1020 check this out, . This guy has a TON of videos and all of them are incredible. Anyone still interested in bashing the 1020's camera can check this out for a more even analysis of the 808 vs 1020. Take special notice of the guy who simply downsampled the 38 image to 5 in photoshop. I personally don't see a big issue with noise but anyone who has doubts that the noise can be fixed through software take special note. Also there are some incredible images emerging now that pretty much puts the naysayers at bay. Just google (bing;) within last 24hrs.
    SwimSwim and Deutscher2 like this.
    07-23-2013 09:08 AM
  17. shadyghost's Avatar
    07-23-2013 09:08 AM
  18. umza's Avatar
    Found this from Nokia Lumia 1020: Quick Hands On! : My Nokia Blog

    "I emailed Elop today and this was his reply

    ““The oversampling in 1020 is much more advanced than in 808. In 1020, the oversampling is adaptive so that we prioritize the high amount of details in bright light, and we prioritize the low noise in low light.

    This means that in bright light our 5MP images have higher sharpness and bit higher noise than 808. On the other hand, in low light our images use similar low noise tech. that we have in 808. The background for this implementation is that the subjective image quality tends to be limited by sharpness in bright light and noise in low light.

    While we believe that this is exactly the right thing to do, I have also noticed that it has caused some confusion among the users. Naturally the parameters are fully tunable in future software updates if needed.””

    Hope this helps"
    07-23-2013 09:09 AM
  19. shadyghost's Avatar
    What I find incredible about the video tests is the focus response. That alone is a massive upgrade to phone tech. I take a lot of video with my phones and have had the most recent flagship devices and all of them struggle with auto focus. Also it looks like the 1020 solves the most incredibly annoying issue I've had with every phone and most every point and shoot and that is the lack of manual focus. It changes the game as far as the macro shots go. I can't tell you how long I have tried to get my expensive Sony P&S and phone cameras to focus on the color red or white when shooting flowers but it is FRUSTRATING. When I had my nokia lumia 900 and GS3 I basically gave up trying.
    07-23-2013 09:16 AM
  20. pavvento's Avatar
    Quite honestly, I'm glad that you guys are sitting here debating over 20 pages about pictures. If they too grainy to you dont buy the phone.

    Can we learn more about this phone besides the camera? This is an AMA.

    1. So how is IPS compared to ClearBlack Amoled?

    I really like the screen. There are times with weird indoor lighting that it has a bit of a yellow hue but otherwise it is awesome.

    2. How is the glance feature? Does it really drain that much battery if set on?

    Glance is good but not great. I haven't noticed a hit on battery and love seeing the time. It doesn't show notifications which means I still have to unlock it to check, partially defeating the purpose. Also, the charging indicator in glance and on the actual top of the phone aren't in lockstep- glance always looks around half full charge.

    3. How easy of use is the Nokia Pro App? Has anybody tried taking a Panoramic picture?

    Nokia Pro app is awesome. Panorama is the same app as before.

    4. Battery life? Games with the 2gb Ram is it noticeably smoother?

    Sorry, I don't play games.

    Battery life seems real good but the Pro cam and photos definitely its harder than taking regular pictures with the 920.

    Let's get some variations in this useful thread instead of bickering over pictures. This is a phone still right? Or are we just talking about a camera here?
    See my responses above in the quoted text. A few pages back I linked to my Wordpress blog which has some more thoughts on the phone. Hope this helps!
    07-23-2013 11:17 AM
  21. vlad0's Avatar
    So the name of the game here is "adaptive oversampling" according to an e-mail from Elop himself.

    The reason why there is more noise than the 808 in daylight photos is because they don't use as much of it during the day, so that they can get a bit more sharpness out of them

    This is also why those night shots look so good.. because oversampling is working at full capacity.

    Stephen Elop on Nokia Lumia 1020 adaptive oversampling and image quality (vs 808) more controls in future updates : My Nokia Blog

    "The oversampling in 1020 is much more advanced than in 808. In 1020, the oversampling is adaptive so that we prioritize the high amount of details in bright light, and we prioritize the low noise in low light.
    This means that in bright light our 5MP images have higher sharpness and bit higher noise than 808. On the other hand, in low light our images use similar low noise tech. that we have in 808. The background for this implementation is that the subjective image quality tends to be limited by sharpness in bright light and noise in low light.
    While we believe that this is exactly the right thing to do, I have also noticed that it has caused some confusion among the users. Naturally the parameters are fully tunable in future software updates if needed.””

    At least now we have an explanation from Nokia on the noise thing. I think there is more to it than just the oversampling algorithms, but at least they acknowledged it.
    KoukiFC3S likes this.
    07-23-2013 02:04 PM
  22. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    I like that adaptive downsampling method. 808 daylight photos lacks bit of sharpner due over cleaning of noise. Interesting to see how it works in true low light photos.
    umza and Deutscher2 like this.
    07-23-2013 02:18 PM
  23. Yangstax's Avatar
    So the name of the game here is "adaptive oversampling" according to an e-mail from Elop himself.

    The reason why there is more noise than the 808 in daylight photos is because they don't use as much of it during the day, so that they can get a bit more sharpness out of them

    This is also why those night shots look so good.. because oversampling is working at full capacity.

    Stephen Elop on Nokia Lumia 1020 adaptive oversampling and image quality (vs 808) more controls in future updates : My Nokia Blog

    "The oversampling in 1020 is much more advanced than in 808. In 1020, the oversampling is adaptive so that we prioritize the high amount of details in bright light, and we prioritize the low noise in low light.
    This means that in bright light our 5MP images have higher sharpness and bit higher noise than 808. On the other hand, in low light our images use similar low noise tech. that we have in 808. The background for this implementation is that the subjective image quality tends to be limited by sharpness in bright light and noise in low light.
    While we believe that this is exactly the right thing to do, I have also noticed that it has caused some confusion among the users. Naturally the parameters are fully tunable in future software updates if needed.””

    At least now we have an explanation from Nokia on the noise thing. I think there is more to it than just the oversampling algorithms, but at least they acknowledged it.
    So there is a hope that the 'adaptive oversampling algorithms' can be tuned as needed in the future software update. That's encouraging. It would be better that this 'adaptive oversampling' can be turned on or off by the users. I'll probably choose to leave the oversampling on at all time, day or night.
    07-23-2013 02:30 PM
  24. Jaripi's Avatar
    So there is a hope that the 'adaptive oversampling algorithms' can be tuned as needed in the future software update. That's encouraging. It would be better that this 'adaptive oversampling' can be turned on or off by the users. I'll probably choose to leave the oversampling on at all time, day or night.
    Nice idea. Hope that Nokia will read your comment :) ...
    07-23-2013 02:41 PM
  25. LumiaChemist's Avatar
    the oversampling is always on, otherwise you wouldnt get a 5MP pic.
    "adaptive oversampling algorithms" refers to the method of interpolation.
    I would guess bilinear resize for the night and bicubic sharper [S]oder[/S] or* (motherlanguage came through xD) lanczos4 for daylight.

    But i doupt the interpolation itself is adaptive, i think they go with bicubic or bilinear and if the image is iso 100-200 the image gets sharpened, else no sharpening is used.
    07-23-2013 02:58 PM
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