11-05-2013 06:02 PM
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  1. Heatnup's Avatar
    here is the Mario one .

    http://sdrv.ms/114Ji46
    The 1020 pictures here are not the 41MP images, neither of these pictures appears to be the high res originals when you check the image dimensions and the file size.

    In comparison, the High resolution images from my Nokia 920 when downloaded to a computer via usb cable come in at 3552 x 2000 resolution and near 3.84MB each. Those specs are consistent with 8.6MP. When I view the same pics on Skydrive they suck since skydrive reduces the image quality and size.
    07-23-2013 03:05 PM
  2. vlad0's Avatar
    I like that adaptive downsampling method. 808 daylight photos lacks bit of sharpner due over cleaning of noise. Interesting to see how it works in true low light photos.
    That's why the 808 has manual controls over sharpness.. scale from -5 to +5 ... and at +5 daylight photos look pretty sharp

    But in auto settings, yes.. the 1020 will be sharper by default
    07-23-2013 03:06 PM
  3. JustToClarify's Avatar
    that photo is sharp AND clean, I can't believe they didn't implement sharpness control in 1020...probably will come with an update
    07-23-2013 03:26 PM
  4. lostaggie's Avatar
    Interesting and matches up with a lot of comments here...

    http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/flow/...vs_Lumia_1.php
    07-23-2013 04:43 PM
  5. Flavio76's Avatar
    People are talking about comparison 808 versus 1020... With all due respect, anyone did the pocket comparison. I mean , how does it feels in your pocket?😃
    Last edited by Flavio76; 07-23-2013 at 05:01 PM.
    07-23-2013 04:47 PM
  6. vlad0's Avatar
    People are talking about comparison 808 versus 1020... With all due respect, anyone did the pocket comparison. I mean , how does it feels in your pocket?
    The 1020 will take a little more room in your pocket .. its got couple of cubic centimeters on the 808

    Nokia 808 PureView vs. Nokia Lumia 1020 - GSMArena.com

    But it depends on your pockets I guess haha

    Anyway, impressive job by Nokia on the packaging of the 1020.. a lot of cutting edge tech packed in there, I just hope there was room for some heat shields on the board.
    07-23-2013 05:18 PM
  7. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    that photo is sharp AND clean, I can't believe they didn't implement sharpness control in 1020...probably will come with an update
    Sharp and clean until you look at the sky...and lo and behold...the same grainy block "mess" that folks are crucifying the 1020 over. It would seem that the 1020 defaults to maximum sharpness when compared to 808...and I agree with you that the 1020 just needs a sharpness widget to tone it down and it will be apples and apples in daylight. I have a feeling that a lot of the cool stuff the pro-cam app brings to light is due to custom coding that leverages the Hexagon DSP module (instead of the "normal" camera chip on the SoC) for the crunching and so having an application interface that allows for selectable sharpening is likely a time-consuming programming issue that will eventually make its way to the phones. From what I understand, using the DSP is a lot like programming for gpgpu in that the code is similar to writing shaders that are fed to the chip..which is very different than what one would do on the cpu as part of the general purpose code in the app itself which leverages the existing MS API's to the "normal" hardware like the multimedia ("camera") chip etc. I'm still digging into this but that's my impression so far..and correlates with prior Nokia statements on how a lot of low-level code development was needed between them and Microsoft in order to pull off the processing that the 1020 requires on the MSM8960 SoC platform.

    Taking Elop's response with a grain of salt, I'm guessing that Nokia went with the sharpness-to-the-max path as a direct result of the ******* and moaning about the overly soft, smoothed images from the 920 when it was launched. The pendulum swung too far and perhaps they didn't have time to implement an adjustable sharpness control due to the aforementioned technical/time to market challenges so they chose settings that would address prior criticisms. Also, you can always apply a smoothing filter to a sharp original and get a nice looking photo...it doesn't work the other way around nearly as well so if Nokia's going to err I prefer it to be on the sharp side since I can smooth it out in photoshop if I want later.
    brianmakris and umza like this.
    07-23-2013 05:26 PM
  8. Yangstax's Avatar
    07-23-2013 06:09 PM
  9. kalel_1000's Avatar
    After playing around with the sample photos posted on Nokias website at Nokia Lumia 1020 Nokia Press

    I have realized that to get 5 mp pics without that ugly grainy noise, the full res 34mp photos can be re-sized in photoshop using bicubic or nearest neighbor methods. This produces photos very similar to what we are used to seeing from the 808.

    Other than that, Nokia's 'adaptive' oversampling, while having a lot of detail produces just too much noise and over-sharpness.

    I am sorry if I came of as very negative early on, I have no personal problem against the 1020. I have decided I will be getting one as well but just because I have supported Nokia from the beginning and always gave their products a chance.

    Difference between the 808 and the 1020 for me would be that I will be shooting most of my photos only in full res on the 1020 versus the 5mp i used to shoot on the 808.
    07-23-2013 06:21 PM
  10. JustToClarify's Avatar
    Sharp and clean until you look at the sky...and lo and behold...the same grainy block "mess" that folks are crucifying the 1020 over. It would seem that the 1020 defaults to maximum sharpness when compared to 808...and I agree with you that the 1020 just needs a sharpness widget to tone it down and it will be apples and apples in daylight. I have a feeling that a lot of the cool stuff the pro-cam app brings to light is due to custom coding that leverages the Hexagon DSP module (instead of the "normal" camera chip on the SoC) for the crunching and so having an application interface that allows for selectable sharpening is likely a time-consuming programming issue that will eventually make its way to the phones. From what I understand, using the DSP is a lot like programming for gpgpu in that the code is similar to writing shaders that are fed to the chip..which is very different than what one would do on the cpu as part of the general purpose code in the app itself which leverages the existing MS API's to the "normal" hardware like the multimedia ("camera") chip etc. I'm still digging into this but that's my impression so far..and correlates with prior Nokia statements on how a lot of low-level code development was needed between them and Microsoft in order to pull off the processing that the 1020 requires on the MSM8960 SoC platform.

    Taking Elop's response with a grain of salt, I'm guessing that Nokia went with the sharpness-to-the-max path as a direct result of the ******* and moaning about the overly soft, smoothed images from the 920 when it was launched. The pendulum swung too far and perhaps they didn't have time to implement an adjustable sharpness control due to the aforementioned technical/time to market challenges so they chose settings that would address prior criticisms. Also, you can always apply a smoothing filter to a sharp original and get a nice looking photo...it doesn't work the other way around nearly as well so if Nokia's going to err I prefer it to be on the sharp side since I can smooth it out in photoshop if I want later.
    hmm yeah it's a little bit visible in sky but don't forget it's 8 MP photo (compared to 5 on 1020) and I compare it to 1020 pictures not smooth 808 5 MP photos :) so it's all relative..and I don't think you can smooth it that easily, I mean it's easier to sharpen the photo to your liking than to smooth it back to look natural because you can't always remember how natural looked like...
    07-23-2013 06:22 PM
  11. SwimSwim's Avatar
    First side-to-side comparison between 808 and 1020 (cropped)

    EXIF 808
    Camera Nokia 808 PureView
    Exposure 0.017 sec (1/60)
    Aperture f/2.4
    Focal Length 8 mm
    ISO Speed 100
    Exposure Bias 0 EV

    EXIF 1020
    Camera Nokia Lumia 1020
    Exposure 0.017 sec (1/60)
    Aperture f/2.2
    ISO Speed 160
    Exposure Bias 0 EV

    (both flash off)


    Attachment 37907


    Check MNB for the full images
    Nokia Lumia 1020: Quick Hands On! : My Nokia Blog
    Thanks a ton, really nice comparison!

    The text looks a little clearer on the 1020, but it does look a bit noisy. I guess one could always correct that via post processing, should it be of dire-enough need. The 1020 does have a bit more of a cooler, bluer tint. Did the table look white in real life? If so, the 1020 matches, and the PureView is too warm.

    However, if the lighting of the room gave the table a warmer accent to it, then the PureView wins.
    07-23-2013 06:45 PM
  12. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    hmm yeah it's a little bit visible in sky but don't forget it's 8 MP photo (compared to 5 on 1020) and I compare it to 1020 pictures not smooth 808 5 MP photos :) so it's all relative..and I don't think you can smooth it that easily, I mean it's easier to sharpen the photo to your liking than to smooth it back to look natural because you can't always remember how natural looked like...
    I'd say it's a little more than "a little bit visible" LOL...it's glaringly obvious even zoomed out all the way in windows photo viewer. But eye of the beholder and all that I suppose..though I have say this shot basically replicates the behavior of the 1020 from what we've seen. And your comment regarding can't always remember how natural looked like cuts both ways in sharpening and smoothing. You do both "to your liking" and is always subjective. However, from a mathematical viewpoint, it's easier to sharpen and then smooth than it is to smooth and then sharpen as far more information is lost in the smoothing process. It's like a hash function...works easy one way but hard the other. For instance, in this photo, the ground and plants look great in the super-sharp view, but the sky is a mess. The sharpening algorithm was looking for differences to accentuate when there really weren't any so it made some up like the good little helper it is. So, just apply a mask in photoshop to the sky section and soften it up leaving the rest untouched. Money. I know what sky is supposed to look like...a continuum of blue and white not discrete blocks. But if the photo had started super-soft out of the camera (like launch-date 920 pics), I'd never be able to get that level of detail in the plants and nearby ground with a sharpening filter, even though the sky would look "natural" from the get-go. All the pertinent detail data would have already been thrown away and there wouldn't be much left to sharpen unless I wanted to make ASCII art out of it. Like trying to cut length off a 2x4 after it's proven to be too short and wondering why it still doesn't fit :p
    shadyghost likes this.
    07-23-2013 06:45 PM
  13. pavvento's Avatar
    I know many of you aren't interested in more photos but i was pretty impressed with some low lights from this evening. I'll post tonight.
    TexasLabRat likes this.
    07-23-2013 07:40 PM
  14. kopi22's Avatar
    I know many of you aren't interested in more photos but i was pretty impressed with some low lights from this evening. I'll post tonight.
    Yes please..... After all the arguments, I really wanna take a look at the performance of night shots. Thanks!
    07-23-2013 08:13 PM
  15. pavvento's Avatar
    They're uploading to my Flickr now. Unfortunately the phone dropped out if my pocket while I was sitting and the screen cracked. To say I'm screwed is an understatement...
    07-23-2013 08:17 PM
  16. SwimSwim's Avatar
    They're uploading to my Flickr now. Unfortunately the phone dropped out if my pocket while I was sitting and the screen cracked. To say I'm screwed is an understatement...
    Required to return it, I imagine? Real shame. I'll keep that in mind, guess it's time to order a case.
    07-23-2013 08:18 PM
  17. muderko's Avatar
    They're uploading to my Flickr now. Unfortunately the phone dropped out if my pocket while I was sitting and the screen cracked. To say I'm screwed is an understatement...
    Really bad luck! How bad is the crack?

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    07-23-2013 08:20 PM
  18. Andrew Kennedy's Avatar
    They're uploading to my Flickr now. Unfortunately the phone dropped out if my pocket while I was sitting and the screen cracked. To say I'm screwed is an understatement...
    Oh wow that's awful!! How bad was the fall? Concrete?
    07-23-2013 08:24 PM
  19. ParoleGA's Avatar
    They're uploading to my Flickr now. Unfortunately the phone dropped out if my pocket while I was sitting and the screen cracked. To say I'm screwed is an understatement...
    Wow man, I am really sorry that happened. I appreciate all the trouble you have been going through to help the community get an early peak. I might have wished that on some of the trolls, but you have been helpful and straight up with your opinions.
    07-23-2013 08:25 PM
  20. SwimSwim's Avatar
    I just went to my local Microsoft Store this evening so as to preorder my Lumia 1020 (I had a couple of concerns when it came to the contract, so I wanted to discuss the matter in person).

    Well, first off, the Microsoft Store is an amazing place, and the employees were educated, trained, and very professional. It made my first visit there a pleasurable experience, I certainly won't mind needing to return there, should an issue arise.

    Anyways, more on point, after the great service and preordering the device, they let me play with the store's demo unit. I was immediately blown away by how comfortable it was to hold.

    It's thinner and lighter than my Lumia 900, the camera bulge didn't get in the way of holding it naturally. The screen was amazing in terms of clarity and responsiveness, and the Nokia Glance screen looks like a feature I'd like to further explore.

    Hen we get to the Pro Camera software. I didn't get much time to play with the phone, only a matter of minutes, but it still made an impression. The interface is easy to pick up, with its intuitive sliders. It was still a little bit awkward trying to figure out what they do and fine tuning them, but once I get it for real, I suspect I would only need 10minutes to master the display. I didn't get to use the tutorial, so perhaps that will be of help.

    Anyways, coming from a Lumia 900, the build and comfort of holding the device alone is enough too switch, plus the great responsive, clear screen, and all the other great features of Windows Phone 8. That doesn't even factor in the camera, which I think takes some very nice shots.

    Bottom line, if you're looking to upgrade any Windows Phone 7.X device, and can dish out the $300-$700, /this/ is the phone to get.

    And if one must have the latest and greatest, I'm sure this will still please anyone using a 920.

    Can't wait till Friday, I'll be zooming into the Store to pick up ASAP (pun intended).
    Heatnup likes this.
    07-23-2013 08:34 PM
  21. pavvento's Avatar
    win_20130723_182447.jpg
    Wow man, I am really sorry that happened. I appreciate all the trouble you have been going through to help the community get an early peak. I might have wished that on some of the trolls, but you have been helpful and straight up with your opinions.

    Thanks, I appreciate that. I have to return it and will use the pre-order product to replace this one. Too bad as I enjoyed having it for a few days. I was sitting in a chair and it fell out of my pocket onto a brick floor. I don't know if my 920 would have survived but I'll say this-I've dropped it a lot of timesand never had a screen break. Here is a picture but doesn't show the full extent.

    I'm also attaching a comparison photo of the Glenfiddich bottle taken with an iPhone 5. The 1020 is one of the ones on Flickr. HUGE difference IMO.

    iPhone5:image.jpg




    1020 5MPwp_20130723_20_37_24_pro.jpg
    07-23-2013 08:34 PM
  22. vlad0's Avatar
    ^ I've been saying that it will destroy any other phone bar one...

    The iPhone 5 is awful after the sun goes down.. the LED "flash" is only good at being a flashlight, the focusing is very slow, and the noise at anything over 400 destroys the image.
    07-23-2013 08:41 PM
  23. muderko's Avatar
    Wow! Wow! Wow!

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    07-23-2013 08:46 PM
  24. prjkthack's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	WIN_20130723_182447.JPG 
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ID:	37951
    Thanks, I appreciate that. I have to return it and will use the pre-order product to replace this one. Too bad as I enjoyed having it for a few days. I was sitting in a chair and it fell out of my pocket onto a brick floor. I don't know if my 920 would have survived but I'll say this-I've dropped it a lot of timesand never had a screen break. Here is a picture but doesn't show the full extent.
    Its all in the way it drops. Most phones can withstand most drops, but once it drops in that one area where its weakest, it can break anything, even a Nokia. Sorry to hear that happened sir. I hope all goes well.
    pavvento likes this.
    07-23-2013 08:48 PM
  25. ParoleGA's Avatar
    Dear WP Central,

    You should consider setting up a Paypal for donations to replace Pavvento's broken 1020.
    I would definity make a donation. It really is the least you could do considering how much traffic his and other early owners sample shots and initial thoughts have driven to your site.

    -Frank
    jmerrey, Muessig, Peterukk and 5 others like this.
    07-23-2013 08:51 PM
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