09-14-2013 08:19 AM
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  1. arkavat's Avatar
    I hope this review by WPCentral gets to them .. and they are ashamed of themselves
    CNET throws the Lumia 1020 under the bus in latest "review", gets facts wrong too | Windows Phone Central

    Thanks Daniel and WPCentral team for putting this out and informing people that you cannot get away with misinforming people
    I am going to call out Daniel on this article.

    Look, we dont want to be that site that goes after everyone who doesnt like Windows Phone. Thats not who we are and we certainly respect the fact that people have preferences. There are valid criticisms against Microsoft, the OS and even the Lumia 1020 and raising those is certainly acceptable.
    But CNET and Molly Woods review is just shameful and amateur. They could and should do better.
    Are they from the same person?

    The language of the article and the tone of this thread has been so aggressive and defensive. I really do not understand why do you have to be so defensive about other reviewer's opinions?

    She makes some valid concerns from the point of view of an average user. Daniel is attacking these points and calling her amateur!

    1) 41 megapixel is a novelty. They don't even exist outside nokia's apps. The whole zoom advantage is false. Digital zoom is a marketing gimmick. 5 mega pixel photo from a 5 mega pixel camera and 5 mega pixel cropped photo from 41 mega pixel camera are never the same quality. We can go into a very technical discussions here but I will avoid that. Most users are looking for a WYSIWYG camera. iPhone does it very good!

    2) If facebook is built in and so obvious, why is it not in her sharing options? Why is new user not guided on to the sign-in screen? Don't call her out... most users will have the same confusion. She took and photo and sees an option there for sharing. She click on it and sees limited options. MS never did good on the promise on centralized sharing. user is never given an hint that there might be apps that share this stuff. Don't blame the user here.

    3) Instagram is absent... it is not there. We have clients, but not instagram. She did not lie.

    4) She showed in the video how long it took for her to start the camera and how much delay was present between her clicking and the photo being saved. Why are you so mad at her.. she experienced what she did and she showed it on the video. iPhone did not fail her. It takes fast photos without you having to open a different camera app. All normal users are experiencing what she did. It is shameful for a phone that's selling point is the camera.

    5) Shed rather have a phone with a great camera that can do everything like the iPhone instead of a phone with a really great camera that cant do much else... what is wrong with it? she is not allowed to have a personal preference? it not even personal.. it is a really honest statement. dpreview.com also rated iphone camera to be just under 1020 camera. iPhone has many more apps. She made a very fair statement. not in our favor, but very fair.

    I would rather write an editorial and slam Nokia and Microsoft for not taking proper advantage of the hardware.
    tgr42 likes this.
    09-10-2013 02:16 PM
  2. wamsille's Avatar
    Phone drama...lol.
    xandros9 likes this.
    09-10-2013 02:21 PM
  3. Ultimateone's Avatar
    I think we should close this thread, the more views that video gets makes them more money and they don't deserve the money nor views from that review.
    nohra likes this.
    09-10-2013 02:24 PM
  4. another visitor's Avatar
    1. If you think 41 megapixel is a gimmick then you have no idea how the 1020 works. 41mp is useful for both oversampling and lossless digital zooming. The 5mp images from the 1020 are of much higher quality than the iphone 5 can ever hope to produce in any situation. The lossless zooming is far from being the crappy 'digital zooming' that you are alluding to. The full-res pixels are almost the same quality as the 8mp pixels from the iphone. So, even cropping that out a 5mp image from the full-res, you'll get closer to the same clarity as the 8mp image of the iphone, but of-course much much close to the subject thanks to the zoom. It's not a gimmick as she is alluding to in that review.
    2. Anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes will figure that out. She is reviewing a phone,not checking it out on a store. It's misleading and completely false. It's her fault if she hasn't logged in to Facebook or not downloaded a client.
    3. She also said 'you cannot istagram it', which is again completely false. You can. Oggl is an official way to do it. She never bothered to mention that. Yes, there is no client, but that does not imply that you cannot upload a photo/video to instagram.
    4. Yes, the delay is there and that has been pointed out so many times. But she also mentioned 'shutter speed'. Again, false. The delay is in the processing (oversampling + full 38mp saving), not the shutter speed. The shutter speed is manually adjustable if anyone so desires.
    5. Just under? It's not even in the same league. iphone 5 (http://1.static.img-dpreview.com/fil...d_2.png?v=2473)
    1020 (http://connect.dpreview.com/files/p/...Lumia_1020.png)
    The difference in Still Image Quality is massive.
    09-10-2013 02:58 PM
  5. tgr42's Avatar
    arkavat - you are right, of course, but most people here aren't interested in the truth. They will only accept the portrayal of the 1020 and Windows Phone in the best possible light, and everything else out there is garbage. The sad thing is that this kind of attitude only serves to hold the platform back. Just like the Linux/open-source desktop vs. Windows, except in the mobile world it's Windows in the losing position. Well, it's going to stay there as long as Microsoft keeps on failing at the very basics while the competition does not.
    09-10-2013 03:00 PM
  6. squire777's Avatar
    gibberish...
    Thanks for stopping by Molly!
    metalchick719 likes this.
    09-10-2013 03:19 PM
  7. crash1989's Avatar
    arkavat - you are right, of course, but most people here aren't interested in the truth. They will only accept the portrayal of the 1020 and Windows Phone in the best possible light, and everything else out there is garbage. The sad thing is that this kind of attitude only serves to hold the platform back. Just like the Linux/open-source desktop vs. Windows, except in the mobile world it's Windows in the losing position. Well, it's going to stay there as long as Microsoft keeps on failing at the very basics while the competition does not.
    No we are not that blind and we don't think everything else is garbage.

    We all agree Windows Phone has fewer apps than Android and iOS.
    We agree there is no official instagram client
    We agree that Lumia 1020 is the best smartphone camera currently , we have many comparisons to show the same.
    We agree (at least I pointed out in the original post itself ) that Capture delay is present.

    We frown upon people who are misinformed and provide public an opinion about Windows Phone.
    We frown upon tech sites who should have technically informed people not knowing simple stuff like connecting to Facebook account.
    We frown upon people who say "I wish I could instagram this pic, but I can't", when you can
    We frown upon people who think it is because of us Windows Phone is held back (or indeed Linux).

    People are entitled to opinions, I guess you are entitled to yours. Keep believing what you will.
    09-10-2013 03:21 PM
  8. Bartdog's Avatar
    Her twitter handle is @mollywood if anyone wants to really let her know what you think.

    [edit] wow, reading her tweets now going back a while. She refers to WP as "ios-like and stupid" saying this was a problem for HTC and Samsung. wow what a witch. And this chick goes on CNN and talks tech.
    Last edited by Bartdog; 09-10-2013 at 03:44 PM.
    09-10-2013 03:24 PM
  9. KKRLessey's Avatar
    She should learn the facts before judging a product.
    09-10-2013 03:24 PM
  10. Reflexx's Avatar

    I really do not understand why do you have to be so defensive about other reviewer's opinions?
    Its not her opinion that's the problem. It's her misrepresentation of the facts.


    She makes some valid concerns from the point of view of an average user. Daniel is attacking these points and calling her amateur!

    1) 41 megapixel is a novelty. They don't even exist outside nokia's apps. The whole zoom advantage is false. Digital zoom is a marketing gimmick. 5 mega pixel photo from a 5 mega pixel camera and 5 mega pixel cropped photo from 41 mega pixel camera are never the same quality. We can go into a very technical discussions here but I will avoid that. Most users are looking for a WYSIWYG camera. iPhone does it very good!
    You are flat out wrong.
    I see why you want to avoid the technical discussion.

    2) If facebook is built in and so obvious, why is it not in her sharing options? Why is new user not guided on to the sign-in screen? Don't call her out... most users will have the same confusion. She took and photo and sees an option there for sharing. She click on it and sees limited options. MS never did good on the promise on centralized sharing. user is never given an hint that there might be apps that share this stuff. Don't blame the user here.
    Facebook is obvious. The first thing you have to do with a WP handset is set up accounts. Right in that accounts section one of the main options is Facebook. Maybe she was confused because it was only labeled as... Facebook.
    When you take a picture, you either click+hold or click the options button in the corner and it lets you share. But maybe that part was confusing too because in order to share with Facebook she'd have to choose the option that is labeled... Facebook.
    3) Instagram is absent... it is not there. We have clients, but not instagram. She did not lie.
    She said that there was no way to post to Instagram, which is blatantly false. There are several options.

    However, she may have been confused because in order to find those options she's have to do a complex search in the app store. You know, typing "instagram".
    So she either lied, or she was flat out incompetent. Which is it?
    4) She showed in the video how long it took for her to start the camera and how much delay was present between her clicking and the photo being saved. Why are you so mad at her.. she experienced what she did and she showed it on the video. iPhone did not fail her. It takes fast photos without you having to open a different camera app. All normal users are experiencing what she did. It is shameful for a phone that's selling point is the camera.
    And if she was a responsible and competent tech reviewer, she'd inform people that there are options. A person could set the MS camera app as their default and get quick picture taking.
    They could keep with the default and get slower, but extremely high quality picture taking.

    Her review makes it seem that WP is incapable of taking good quality photos at decent speed, which is FALSE.
    5) She’d rather “…have a phone with a great camera that can do everything like the iPhone” instead of a phone “with a really great camera that can’t do much else”... what is wrong with it? she is not allowed to have a personal preference? it not even personal.. it is a really honest statement. dpreview.com also rated iphone camera to be just under 1020 camera. iPhone has many more apps. She made a very fair statement. not in our favor, but very fair.
    Maybe because it's a lie?"Not much else" is BS.
    The 1020's camera is much more capable than the iPhone's. It can shoot in lower quality mode just like the iPhone if that's what you want.
    Can the iPhone hope to match the 1020's default quality mode? Not even close.
    How about in low light? Not even close.
    Capturing detail? Not even close.
    Video stability? Not even close.

    But if she said, "I prefer the iPhone because there are more obscure apps that let me share pictures of my food" then I suppose she'd have a point.

    I would rather write an editorial and slam Nokia and Microsoft for not taking proper advantage of the hardware.
    If you wrote an editorial, would it be full of lies like hers?
    09-10-2013 03:54 PM
  11. metalchick719's Avatar
    Her twitter handle is @mollywood if anyone wants to really let her know what you think.

    [edit] wow, reading her tweets now going back a while. She refers to WP as "ios-like and stupid" saying this was a problem for HTC and Samsung. wow what a witch. And this chick goes on CNN and talks tech.
    "iOS-like??" LMFAOOOO!!! She's so clueless, it's quite hilarious!
    KKRLessey and crash1989 like this.
    09-10-2013 03:58 PM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    I'm wondering if she's incompetent as a tech reviewer, or if she's a liar.

    Neither option is good.
    xandros9 likes this.
    09-10-2013 04:02 PM
  13. tgr42's Avatar
    Ok, here's the good point that arkavat was right about, that you guys seem to be missing. If you want a platform to be truly successful, you need to make it so even stupid people will generally be able to do the things they want to do without too much trouble. If you have a button in your OS that says "share", and you know your typical average user is probably going to want to share it on Facebook, and you don't put Facebook in the list, you - the OS creator - have failed. Somewhere along the line this woman should have been prompted to provide her Facebook login info. Even if she declined, she should still have the option to share via Facebook - and when she chooses it, then she gets prompted to provide her Facebook login info.

    It's called making your product ***** proof. This is what you need in order to get mainstream adoption when the user has a choice.

    It's EASY to blame end users as being idiots, uninformed, biased, etc. But almost all the time, the most fault truly lies in the product. It's better to design your product so that those users can't help but succeed in spite of themselves. But it takes a strong will indeed to sweep aside all of the technical and sometimes political forces that conspire against this.
    arkavat likes this.
    09-10-2013 04:04 PM
  14. Smyrna5's Avatar
    Yes, tgr42, but aren't you assuming she could even work an iPhone if she hadn't had years of practice?
    hcrick likes this.
    09-10-2013 04:09 PM
  15. wamsille's Avatar
    1. 41 megapixel is a novelty. They don't even exist outside nokia's apps. The whole zoom advantage is false. Digital zoom is a marketing gimmick. 5 mega pixel photo from a 5 mega pixel camera and 5 mega pixel cropped photo from 41 mega pixel camera are never the same quality. We can go into a very technical discussions here but I will avoid that. Most users are looking for a WYSIWYG camera. iPhone does it very good!

      Sure, just about every phone that has come out in the last twenty years has had some kind of “novelty” to them. PureView is a platform Nokia is using to position themselves apart from other smartphones and Windows Phone devices. Optics is a bit of a strong suit for them.

      Barring any kind of technical discussions, which I’m sure we should more or less thank you for (right?), the quality of shots taken with the Lumia 1020 versus other devices is noticably better. How that magic is made – most people aren’t going to dig into the fine details. But, seeing as you did not include this in your argument, the “novelty” of a 41 MP camera has not been founded.


      2) If facebook is built in and so obvious, why is it not in her sharing options? Why is new user not guided on to the sign-in screen? Don't call her out... most users will have the same confusion. She took and photo and sees an option there for sharing. She click on it and sees limited options. MS never did good on the promise on centralized sharing. user is never given an hint that there might be apps that share this stuff. Don't blame the user here.

      When you first set up a Windows Phone, you are prompted to add accounts to your device. Facebook, Twitter, Google – they are all there. (LinkedIn, etc…) The fact is Facebook is built in and it is obvious. The focus of the reviewer was more on the camera and its limitations rather than the camera and its features. That is a huge difference.

      3) Instagram is absent... it is not there. We have clients, but not instagram. She did not lie.

      But it is there. You say Instagram is absent but we have clients. It isn’t Instagram but it is? What is so bad about a client? The folks behind Metrotube are surely sulking in a corner somewhere.




    4) She showed in the video how long it took for her to start the camera and how much delay was present between her clicking and the photo being saved. Why are you so mad at her..

    The anger is not directed as what she demonstrated but rather how she went about it. The proof is in the pudding that she wasn’t nearly as versed in the hardware let alone the software to show potential buyers and cNet followers what this device was capable of.

    she experienced what she did and she showed it on the video. iPhone did not fail her. It takes fast photos without you having to open a different camera app. All normal users are experiencing what she did. It is shameful for a phone that's selling point is the camera.

    Shameful? Jesus Jumped Up Christ. The phone takes very high resolution photos (two as a matter of fact) when you click on the shutter button. The level of detail and lossless zoom is worth a few seconds of loading. Let whatever magical fairies are compiling that digital mess of a photo you took of leftovers from last night process and then go on to the next picture project.

    You do realize that Pro Cam is only part of the equation, right? What phone out there, currently, gives the user mutliple shooting options without the need to go out to an App Store and throw in all this extra functionality?


    5) She’d rather “…have a phone with a great camera that can do everything like the iPhone” instead of a phone “with a really great camera that can’t do much else”... what is wrong with it? she is not allowed to have a personal preference? it not even personal.. it is a really honest statement. dpreview.com also rated iphone camera to be just under 1020 camera. iPhone has many more apps. She made a very fair statement. not in our favor, but very fair.

    She’s allowed to have personal preference. If she wasn’t of any opinion and didn’t have life experiences and first-hand knowledge of other hardware, I would have a difficult time believing a word she said.

    The iPhone’s camera is “just under” the Lumia 1020 camera. And?


    The fervor here is regarding how the assessment was conducted.Individual snippets from Molly’s commentary don’t paint her in a better light or do much to assauge concerns that cNet is nothing more than Apple’s PR slave.

    People can love or hate the Lumia 1020.You can commend Nokia for their efforts or call them out for their overzealous attempt to create the ultimate smartphone camera.It really doesn’t matter – it’s a phone.If people want to get upset over a phone review and share their two cents publicly…that is their constitutionally protected right.They are also free to ignore the article, video and accompanying forum posts that at this point do no more than to draw out the hate.

    In terms of what is a better phone – that is really objective and signs point to both the iPhone and Nokia Lumia 1020 as being great “phones”.Motorola is also great at making “phones”.Once you start talking about the underlying OS, you enter a subjective realm.These phones all provide you with PIM – how they do it depends largely on how you use your device.These phones all get you on the internet – whether or not it is in line with how you use your phone is up to you.


    What works for you may not work for me.What works for me may not work for you.What we can agree on is that it is a great time to be a smartphone consumer – there are plenty of choices out there depending on what you want out of a device.
    teckris likes this.
    09-10-2013 04:12 PM
  16. hcrick's Avatar
    Liar seems so harsh. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because I'd like to think she wouldn't knowingly or intentionally spread incorrect information and mislead the public. Let's go with untruths instead.
    09-10-2013 04:17 PM
  17. irvin792's Avatar
    Lets just throw common sense out the window and give her the benefit of the doubt..........


    Give me a break , she writes for a tech site.....not homes and garden, she should be resourceful enough to figure this **** out for a review.......
    metalchick719 likes this.
    09-10-2013 04:19 PM
  18. Reflexx's Avatar
    Liar seems so harsh. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because I'd like to think she wouldn't knowingly or intentionally spread incorrect information and mislead the public. Let's go with untruths instead.
    So then she's just not competent at her job?
    09-10-2013 04:26 PM
  19. Fade_z's Avatar
    Biased review, pulls out her iPhone every so often while saying"LETS TRY MY IPHONE"

    *****, she's ugly to
    09-10-2013 04:31 PM
  20. wamsille's Avatar
    So then she's just not competent at her job?
    Molly's employment shouldn't be at issue here. She writes for another website where she has, historically, been less than kind towards Windows Phone. If anything needs to be highlighted, its the fact this "hit piece" against the 1020 was poorly executed and riddled with inaccuracies. Personal bias aside, if you are going to call out a device or OS for its shortcomings you need to have your facts in order.

    You can be anti-Nokia, Windows Phone and/or Microsoft. But, call it for what it is. Don't omit facts or make up junk in order to serve your agenda.
    09-10-2013 04:36 PM
  21. hcrick's Avatar
    So then she's just not competent at her job?
    There can be no other conclusion given the blatantly incorrect statements she made. Many people who don't follow tech will watch that video and believe it, and possibly spread the untruth even further. It is a reviewer's job to familiarize themselves with a product before the review. If she had the facts correct and still promoted the iphone has her choice then I doubt there would be as much controversy.
    09-10-2013 04:38 PM
  22. wamsille's Avatar
    There can be no other conclusion given the blatantly incorrect statements she made. Many people who don't follow tech will watch that video and believe it, and possibly spread the untruth even further. It is a reviewer's job to familiarize themselves with a product before the review. If she had the facts correct and still promoted the iphone has her choice then I doubt there would be as much controversy.
    Let's not get carried away here. Call her out on the mistakes. Question her motivation. Work towards getting CNet to give a more informed review of the device, not a hit piece.

    Don't call her ugly. Don't call for her to be fired from her position. And above all else, be civil.
    txkimmers likes this.
    09-10-2013 04:43 PM
  23. tgr42's Avatar
    Yes, tgr42, but aren't you assuming she could even work an iPhone if she hadn't had years of practice?
    No, I've made no such assumption. Maybe she'd get by just fine, or maybe she'd be even more stymied than she is by Windows Phone. I don't know. It's not relevant to my point, which is that Microsoft needs to make things easier for the average person trying to accomplish typical tasks. Most people don't want to have to go through a learning curve to use their phone or anything else for that matter. When they fail at something and get frustrated, they will blame the phone manufacturer, OS maker, or anyone else they can think of. They won't say to themselves "well, I just need to learn more about this". Judging by many posts in these forums, there are plenty of people who try Windows Phone, quickly get frustrated, and then they're gone forever. And for every one of those people that posted on the forum, there are probably a hundred or a thousand more that didn't bother to seek out a forum and ask for help.

    If the platform is to be successful and competitive, it will require substantial improvement. The Windows Phone designers seemed to recognize this at first, but they've failed to execute and follow up on this critical need - to identify common usage scenarios, find out what the stumbling points are, and eliminate them. There are countless examples throughout the OS.

    Anyway, I hope the Windows Phone OS designers are getting more out of reviews like this than the community is. If their reaction is like that of most people here, the platform is surely doomed.
    09-10-2013 04:51 PM
  24. crash1989's Avatar
    Let's not get carried away here. Call her out on the mistakes. Question her motivation. Work towards getting CNet to give a more informed review of the device, not a hit piece.

    Don't call her ugly. Don't call for her to be fired from her position. And above all else, be civil.
    Agreed.
    This thread has gone through a lot changes since I posted, but all I hope is c|net have more informed videos. I really hope they get the message and try to have better videos.
    09-10-2013 04:52 PM
  25. WinFan1's Avatar
    Agreed.
    This thread has gone through a lot changes since I posted, but all I hope is c|net have more informed videos. I really hope they get the message and try to have better videos.
    why not call for her job someone like her has no business in that field of work.
    09-10-2013 05:10 PM
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