10-05-2013 09:23 AM
76 1234
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  1. Hs1993's Avatar
    But that Profile Pic FaceSwap though!!
    09-19-2013 07:43 AM
  2. George Jenkinson's Avatar
    It amazes me how people can convince themselves that images that can be replicated by a $99 point and shoot are somehow stunning and impressive since they are from a Lumina 1020, or iPhone, or high end Android phone. I am sorry but I simply don't see what is impressive about any of the shots. They are garden variety point and shoot images. The colors appear to be just passable, detail looks like that from any other high resolution small sensor, white balance is mediocre, and exposure//light/shadow control is quite unimpressive. I am also surprised that a photographer would wax poetic about this stuff. As most photographers I know will attest, number of pixels is meaningless and is even more the case with tiny digital sensors. It is smoke and mirrors - people will convince themselves of whatever they want to see. BTW, I am an archaeologist who has been doing photography as part of my profession for 20+ years and learned using the original Nikon F.

    To each their own but to date I have yet to see any 1020 images that have impressed me as being anything more than shots from an overpriced point and shoot for which people are making a two to three year commitment. Leaving all other issues aside, and whether one person's subjective impression of images are more valid than another's, in the length of time someone might be tied to a contract, digital imaging technology will probably leapfrog at least twice. I simply do not see the fascination and obsession with this (or any other) camera phone.
    I understand what you mean and as an amateur, rather than professional, photographer who can now only call himself an enthusiast, I appreciate what you say. However, if I may, I would make two comments:

    The real difference will only be seen when the photos are printed. Until then, everyone who views them does so through a monitor which in most cases is probably like mine - rather basic and not calibrated for colour. Most of all though, the pixels on my screen are large and hide details. It is possible (although not stated) that the OP as a professional may have a better screen in which case, many of the points he raises would be clearer to see.

    The other point is that while many phones take pictures, few are billed as camera phones. I've had a good spread of phones and cameras and can attest that 99 point and shoot won't capture the same information and certainly won't have the software baked in to process the image, as more expensive cameras. You do get what you pay for. I have a Canon A series point and shoot camera and I have no control over the focusing, shutter speed, depth of field or even ISO; but I can change the scene mode and flash. The Lumia has all of these included as standard.

    Until there is a printed comparison, it isn't possible to state categorically that a $99 camera is better/worse than a Lumia 1020. In the current situation though, I am inclined to agree with the OP. The photos are good and if they were taken with the higher resolution I am sure would show up a still greater difference.
    Smyrna5 likes this.
    09-19-2013 07:48 AM
  3. Nick_1020's Avatar
    There's always one isn't there?!

    Bloody archaeologists. Indiana Jones tried his best to sex up the profession and look what has happened.

    George Lucas has a lot to answer for indeed.
    09-19-2013 07:57 AM
  4. JustlMe's Avatar
    I really need to start taking more better pics, I'm starring at your pics more than my own shots form my L1020 xD!
    09-19-2013 08:40 AM
  5. antiochian2010's Avatar
    It amazes me how people can convince themselves that images that can be replicated by a $99 point and shoot are somehow stunning and impressive since they are from a Lumina 1020, or iPhone, or high end Android phone..etc..etc..etc..etc..etc....
    Well, I'm by no means a pro photographer, I post with a lousy avatar and yesterday someone justifiably accused me of having the mentality of a 12 year old.

    In this case, I can just say that I love the photos posted here and I like what the 1020 is doing for me.

    Between your thorough and well thought out review here versus another long review of the 1020 by someone from National Geographic that shoots with nothing but the best available DSLR cameras, I think I have to accept his authority over yours, mine or even most of the members on this site.

    If Nat Geo likes the Lumia 1020, can't be all bad..
    09-19-2013 11:06 AM
  6. taymur's Avatar
    maaaaan, i would pay for such pictures, oh weight, you already sell your pictures :P
    09-19-2013 12:49 PM
  7. Bahamen's Avatar
    It amazes me how people can convince themselves that images that can be replicated by a $99 point and shoot
    Actually, I was wondering where can we find a $99 point & shoot camera with similar specs as the 1020 (i.e. sensor size 1/1.5", f/2.2). The Canon S110 costs $300-400, and has a slightly smaller image sensor 1/1.7". A Pana LF1 costs about the same as well.

    Finally... a P&S camera for $129: Nikon Coolpix L10... Darn, only a 1/2.5" sensor... way smaller than the 1020's sensor (close enough to Xperia Z1 though).

    Are we talking about a used P&S camera for $99, or a missing digit somewhere, or is he just ignorant about the 1020?
    09-19-2013 12:52 PM
  8. luv2skipow's Avatar
    Are you in Calgary? If so how did you get the phone. ..
    Even if in Alberta for that matter.
    09-19-2013 01:15 PM
  9. Smyrna5's Avatar
    As much as I distrust cNet after their recent hatchet job on the 1020, here is a pretty good list of what you can get in the $100-$150 range in a point and shoot camera. I know the original webpage title says $400-$500, but I moved the maximum slider down to $105. cNet still showed some upwards of $150, but what ya gonna do?

    $60 - $150 Digital Cameras - CNET Reviews

    I have fun playing with the little slider up to about $500 to see what kind of camera I could get for the difference between my 521 and the 1020, although as I've said most wont fit in my pocket and I don't want to carry two devices everywhere.
    Last edited by Smyrna5; 09-19-2013 at 02:31 PM.
    09-19-2013 01:34 PM
  10. tgr42's Avatar
    Between your thorough and well thought out review here versus another long review of the 1020 by someone from National Geographic that shoots with nothing but the best available DSLR cameras, I think I have to accept his authority over yours, mine or even most of the members on this site.

    If Nat Geo likes the Lumia 1020, can't be all bad..
    ...except the National Geographic thing was blatant paid publicity for Nokia. That doesn't mean it's entirely worthless, but there's a huge difference between being paid to promote a product vs. giving an unsolicited opinion. We have no way of knowing the true off-the-record feelings of that National Geographic photographer - maybe he really does like the 1020, or maybe he threw it off a cliff when the shoot was over.
    09-19-2013 02:03 PM
  11. EvilFiek's Avatar
    @tgr42
    Fair point, but personally what mattered most to me were the results and the pictures taken by the Nat Geo guy with the 1020 were stunning! I genuinely doubt any other mobile phone on the market could've produced such results.
    09-19-2013 04:43 PM
  12. Ferazzz's Avatar
    Lmfao!!!
    09-19-2013 11:07 PM
  13. Bahamen's Avatar
    ...except the National Geographic thing was blatant paid publicity for Nokia. That doesn't mean it's entirely worthless, but there's a huge difference between being paid to promote a product vs. giving an unsolicited opinion. We have no way of knowing the true off-the-record feelings of that National Geographic photographer - maybe he really does like the 1020, or maybe he threw it off a cliff when the shoot was over.
    The National Geographic thing is not the same as a celebrity endorsement (Jessica Alba comes to mind). As a reputable publisher, it should not publish pictures taken with the 1020 unless it is perfectly satisfied with the quality. If it were not that good you would have seen Nat Geo's mag photos shot by an assortment of sponsored cameras including those of questionable quality like an iJunk. Heck National Geographic can even be a free publication since each page will be sponsored by the likes of Samsung, Apple and Sony. Just take a look at those Nat Geo pictures taken with the 1020, you will know that they have not compromised their publication quality.

    Besides, it is very instructive to read commentaries by the photographer. Some comments are very insightful, like how it is easier to take pictures using the 1020 while suspended on a cliff, as a DSLR would have been too heavy and difficult to maintain balance. All these comments come across as genuine and I'm pretty sure Nokia did not script that. So it's very unfair to just imply that some publisher is untrustworthy just because of the sponsorship arrangement without looking at the full picture. So yes, I regard the National Geographic piece to be a useful and credible demonstration of the 1020's capabilities.
    EvilFiek likes this.
    09-20-2013 01:57 AM
  14. Bahamen's Avatar
    As much as I distrust cNet after their recent hatchet job on the 1020, here is a pretty good list of what you can get in the $100-$150 range in a point and shoot camera. I know the original webpage title says $400-$500, but I moved the maximum slider down to $105. cNet still showed some upwards of $150, but what ya gonna do?

    $60 - $150 Digital Cameras - CNET Reviews

    I have fun playing with the little slider up to about $500 to see what kind of camera I could get for the difference between my 521 and the 1020, although as I've said most wont fit in my pocket and I don't want to carry two devices everywhere.
    Those are all 1/2.3" sensors. As I said, NONE of those 1/2.3" sensors stand a chance against the 1020, which has more than double the sensor size. So the only P&S cameras that can be compared to the Lumia 1020 would cost $300-400. Hmm... 20+ years in photography, really? Nikon F, really?
    Smyrna5 and Deutscher2 like this.
    09-20-2013 10:12 AM
  15. roastbeefalo's Avatar
    "I'm very happy using the 5MP files from the camera. I know it takes 41MP photos, but the whole purpose of 41mp is to get the nicest 5MP files possible. I will trust Nokia's R&D and take their 5MP files, which upon inspection, are beautifully detailed and crisp."

    Anyone have thoughts on this comment? If I am honest with myself, no way will I take the time to edit all the 41mp photos. I am often too lazy to get photos off my digital SLR, much less off my phone. If I got the 1020, I would just be using the 5 mp. Can you set up the phone to just take 5 mp? Are they always oversampled, regardless of the application used? Are the 5 mp significantly better than other camera phones?
    09-20-2013 10:40 AM
  16. majortom1981's Avatar
    Yes you can set it to just keep the 5mp versions and yes they are oversampled. If you keep only the 5mp ones you cant reframe the shots.
    09-20-2013 10:46 AM
  17. Smyrna5's Avatar
    "I'm very happy using the 5MP files from the camera. I know it takes 41MP photos, but the whole purpose of 41mp is to get the nicest 5MP files possible. I will trust Nokia's R&D and take their 5MP files, which upon inspection, are beautifully detailed and crisp."

    Anyone have thoughts on this comment? If I am honest with myself, no way will I take the time to edit all the 41mp photos. I am often too lazy to get photos off my digital SLR, much less off my phone. If I got the 1020, I would just be using the 5 mp. Can you set up the phone to just take 5 mp? Are they always oversampled, regardless of the application used? Are the 5 mp significantly better than other camera phones?
    I think (don't have a 1020 to know for sure) I would use the 41 MP to reframe important shots. I often find my self wanting to re-frame (crop) pics I take with my 521. At 5 MP there isn't a whole lot of re-framing I can do.On the other hand, storing a lot of 41 MP pics is problematic. It might be better to develop the discipline to frame them right on the first shot, but I sometimes have trouble seeing the picture as well on the screen as I can through a real view finder.
    Nick_1020 likes this.
    09-20-2013 10:56 AM
  18. tgr42's Avatar
    "I'm very happy using the 5MP files from the camera. I know it takes 41MP photos, but the whole purpose of 41mp is to get the nicest 5MP files possible. I will trust Nokia's R&D and take their 5MP files, which upon inspection, are beautifully detailed and crisp."

    Anyone have thoughts on this comment? If I am honest with myself, no way will I take the time to edit all the 41mp photos. I am often too lazy to get photos off my digital SLR, much less off my phone. If I got the 1020, I would just be using the 5 mp. Can you set up the phone to just take 5 mp? Are they always oversampled, regardless of the application used? Are the 5 mp significantly better than other camera phones?
    You can set the phone to save just the 5MP image, but you will give up a few things doing so. First, the phone really does capture detail beyond 5MP, so you will lose some detail. This may not be important if you don't want to crop, look at the image very closely, or do a very large or high res print. Second, when the phone resizes the captured image down to 5MP (aka oversampling), it uses very aggressive sharpening. This can cause ugly artifacts such as fringing and rainbow aliasing

    I've provided examples of these problems in the images below. Please be sure to open each image in a separate tab and view at 1:1 so you can see them properly.

    First, flip between the first two images. The first image is a crop from the 5MP image created by the phone. The second is a crop of the 38MP image resized down to the same size as the first crop using Paint.NET. Note how the phone's resizing algorithm has caused noticeable fringing around the letters in the sign, and a rainbow aliasing effect around the vertical columns above and below the sign. Paint.NET's resizing of the same original image is softer and does not have these artifacts. It looks better to me.

    Finally, compare the third image to the first and second. The third image is the unresized crop of the same area from the 38MP image. Notice how the "Rush Only" text in the YL circle is clearly legible in the full size image, but it's mangled in the first image and only maybe slightly legible with prior understanding in the second image. This is the kind of detail you lose going from 38MP to 5MP.
    Attached Thumbnails 5mp-crop.jpg   38mp-crop-resize.jpg   38mp-crop.jpg  
    09-20-2013 11:13 AM
  19. Winfonejunkie's Avatar
    Wow, your an excellent photographer. Beautiful pics. I captured some similarly amazing shots when i was in Mexico. This camera is truly a marvel.
    09-20-2013 11:56 AM
  20. hcrick's Avatar
    You can set the phone to save just the 5MP image, but you will give up a few things doing so. First, the phone really does capture detail beyond 5MP, so you will lose some detail. This may not be important if you don't want to crop, look at the image very closely, or do a very large or high res print. Second, when the phone resizes the captured image down to 5MP (aka oversampling), it uses very aggressive sharpening. This can cause ugly artifacts such as fringing and rainbow aliasing

    I've provided examples of these problems in the images below. Please be sure to open each image in a separate tab and view at 1:1 so you can see them properly.

    First, flip between the first two images. The first image is a crop from the 5MP image created by the phone. The second is a crop of the 38MP image resized down to the same size as the first crop using Paint.NET. Note how the phone's resizing algorithm has caused noticeable fringing around the letters in the sign, and a rainbow aliasing effect around the vertical columns above and below the sign. Paint.NET's resizing of the same original image is softer and does not have these artifacts. It looks better to me.

    Finally, compare the third image to the first and second. The third image is the unresized crop of the same area from the 38MP image. Notice how the "Rush Only" text in the YL circle is clearly legible in the full size image, but it's mangled in the first image and only maybe slightly legible with prior understanding in the second image. This is the kind of detail you lose going from 38MP to 5MP.
    Very good example. I can spot the differences even without opening them up separately but it does become more evident once you do. Personally, I actually prefer the first image over the second; I just feel it's a better compromise (at least for this example). I have seen other pictures where I liked the smoother, softer approach more so it does depend on the shot and individual taste. The beauty of the 1020 though is that you also have the ability to produce "uncompromised" crops like the third image.
    09-20-2013 12:24 PM
  21. tgr42's Avatar
    Very good example. I can spot the differences even without opening them up separately but it does become more evident once you do. Personally, I actually prefer the first image over the second; I just feel it's a better compromise (at least for this example). I have seen other pictures where I liked the smoother, softer approach more so it does depend on the shot and individual taste. The beauty of the 1020 though is that you also have the ability to produce "uncompromised" crops like the third image.
    Ideally you would resize with software that gives you continuous control over the amount of sharpening during resize, with a good preview of the output so you can find the exact compromise that suits your tastes. Unfortunately most software doesn't let you do this. I think Photoshop might, but I don't have it.

    If you prefer the sharp look, IrfanView set to "Sharpen after resize" actually does a very good job in this case, providing all of the sharpness of the phone's 5MP image but with significantly less artifacting. Compare the attached image with the first one in the earlier post. In this example, I think 1:1 viewing of both images is truly necessary.
    Attached Thumbnails irf-sharp.jpg  
    hcrick and roastbeefalo like this.
    09-20-2013 12:58 PM
  22. AccentAE86's Avatar
    Well, part 2 is now up! Forced my 1020 to do some macro duty. Check it out!

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/nok...o-edition.html
    09-20-2013 03:48 PM
  23. liin's Avatar
    It amazes me how people can convince themselves that images that can be replicated by a $99 point and shoot are somehow stunning and impressive since they are from a Lumina 1020, or iPhone, or high end Android phone ...
    Obviously, this camera phone is not going to offer more than DSLR with a bunch of prime lens to swap. And can't even do what a common 50mm f/1.2 on a full frame sensor ( or even film ) can.

    The disappointment with pocket p&s cameras had been the lack of control. We had seen that tackled by Sigma DP series, Ricoh GR series, and subsequent follow-up from other companies. And today we have super compact full frames and Sony's WiFi lens offering ( with sensor and SD storage ) that use any phone as its body, practically turning the phone into a swappable lens camera body that can take any lens and the great sensors that they come with. We are very well aware of that.

    However, for those who are inclined to just draw out their phone to take snapshots, but want control over images taken, this is a great phone. Yes, there's almost no control of depth of field, and no way of getting the look of specific focal length since zooming is just cropping. But. There is creative control over the composition of light and shadow. That is very attractive. And I can assure you most low/mid range p&s can't do that. There had been some apps that allow this on iOS, but 1020's oversampling makes this advantage far more attractive, since in such compositions, noise in shadow can ruin even a good composition.

    This isn't about a phone camera surpassing or replacing $700 p&s. It's a phone that surpasses other phones in image performance. And it's a phone with enough reason to ditch carrying a separate low/mid range p&s when on the go. It really does serve the purpose of two devices.

    I love taking photos. Yet, I've never felt compelled to take snapshots with my phone. I just carry a camera, even if it was just a p&s with exposure control and better lens+sensor. This is the first phone that I don't feel silly fiddling with its camera.

    Edit: I've added two shots taken from the same spot. It's a mall walkway just outside MS retail store where I just got my phone 5mins prior. These two very first test shots aren't great photography but illustrated what 1020 can do from the same spot. Pretty sure most low to mid p&s can't do this.
    Attached Thumbnails wp_20131003_12_34_41_pro20131003171820131005143840.jpg   wp_20131003_12_37_22_pro20131003172020131005143543.jpg  
    Last edited by liin; 10-05-2013 at 09:09 PM. Reason: added photos as examples
    jimmynexus and Smyrna5 like this.
    10-03-2013 09:00 PM
  24. Lurchorama's Avatar
    If you take the 1020 from a P&S perspective; its a great overall solution. So I bought one :)
    It's just not practical to carry around my D800, grip, lenses, flash, blah *everywhere* I go. I also have a Pentax Q which is a wonderful little beast, but I just never got into the habit of taking it everywhere with me (which was the original idea). But the 1020 is *always* with me.
    Whats that old saying? "The best camera you have is the one you have with you". At least now the "camera you have with you" is actually half decent.

    (Still would like an ND filter and for the App to remember my bloody settings!!)


    Oh... nice pics btw :D
    10-04-2013 07:56 AM
  25. Smyrna5's Avatar

    (Still would like an ND filter and for the App to remember my bloody settings!

    ProShot remembers your settings for up to 4 custom modes. Does almost everything ProCam does and more for only $1.99 and runs on all the Lumias.


    Oh... nice pics btw :D
    Last edited by Smyrna5; 10-05-2013 at 05:53 AM.
    Lurchorama likes this.
    10-04-2013 06:15 PM
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