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09-27-2013 11:11 PM
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  1. anony_mouse's Avatar
    No need to try a hundred different themes and such to try to get the feel you want.
    It is annoying that Android forces you to try 100 different themes. When I first switched on my phone, I thought I would be set up within a few minutes, but no! First theme 1 and you have to try that for five minutes, then theme 2, theme 3, and so on. And worse still, a little gun pops out of the phone and threatens to shoot your cat if you don't do it!
    Hard to understand how Android still outsells WP.
    09-23-2013 09:03 AM
  2. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Your description of him, techy and quoting all those specs. He sounds like the kind of person that might get lost in tiny details and never grasp what truly matters and adds to life.
    I find that comment quite ironic in the context of this thread.
    09-23-2013 09:07 AM
  3. wamsille's Avatar
    There are too many chefs in the kitchen with Android. (And Linux in general) Since there is a pretty shallow standard that allows for divergence at every aspect of the operating system, you have various branches that have their own unique following. People like TouchWiz, Sense and other overlays because of the added value the interfaces are designed to bring.

    If you hop over to XDA, all the modders and tweakers kill off TouchWiz and Sense. They build AOSP ROMs that start off Android but then become a bastardized child of Cyanogenmod. Then you have all the themes, replacement launchers and icons, etc. People think choice is better and Android embraces it, but all I see there is a cluster**** of **** a bunch of themers have thrown together to make something look "cool".

    Don't get me wrong, Android in general gives me what I need and want but I'm tired of being some major corporation's product. I'd rather pay for applications and services, keep my privacy and go with more fluid and better designed operating systems. I hate to say it, but I would rather buy an iPhone now at this point than an Android device.
    09-23-2013 09:18 AM
  4. tgr42's Avatar
    There are too many chefs in the kitchen with Android. (And Linux in general) Since there is a pretty shallow standard that allows for divergence at every aspect of the operating system, you have various branches that have their own unique following. People like TouchWiz, Sense and other overlays because of the added value the interfaces are designed to bring.

    If you hop over to XDA, all the modders and tweakers kill off TouchWiz and Sense. They build AOSP ROMs that start off Android but then become a bastardized child of Cyanogenmod. Then you have all the themes, replacement launchers and icons, etc. People think choice is better and Android embraces it, but all I see there is a cluster**** of **** a bunch of themers have thrown together to make something look "cool".
    This is such a weak argument. Just get stock Android via a Nexus or Google Play edition device, problem solved. I've never had to deal with themes, mods, tweaks, launchers, ROMs, etc on any of my Android devices.

    Don't get me wrong, Android in general gives me what I need and want but I'm tired of being some major corporation's product. I'd rather pay for applications and services, keep my privacy and go with more fluid and better designed operating systems. I hate to say it, but I would rather buy an iPhone now at this point than an Android device.
    You may trust one company more than another, but whether you choose Google, Apple, or Microsoft, you are a major corporation's product.
    Nick_1020 and planoman like this.
    09-23-2013 09:47 AM
  5. Nick_1020's Avatar
    You may trust one company more than another, but whether you choose Google, Apple, or Microsoft, you are a major corporation's product.
    Yep.
    09-23-2013 10:09 AM
  6. wamsille's Avatar
    This is such a weak argument. Just get stock Android via a Nexus or Google Play edition device, problem solved. I've never had to deal with themes, mods, tweaks, launchers, ROMs, etc on any of my Android devices.
    Why is it weak? Oh, right it's you again with your battery graphs, charts and test results.

    Nexus devices have not historically had the best in class specifications. What if I want LTE and I'm on AT&T? What if I want a better camera than what was available on the Nexus 4? What if I want a microSD card to increase storage? Mods and scripts can reverse internal storage with the microSD card, giving you inevitably up to 64GB of usable space for games and applications.

    Google has their own limitations on Android to control what is possible and to calm concerns from developers and content distributors alike. But at the same time its that openness which leads to innovation. Sure, Nexus devices represent pure Android but unlock the bootloader and install Cyanogenmod and you likely have better hardware. Want to compare the Nexus 4 to a Galaxy S4?


    You may trust one company more than another, but whether you choose Google, Apple, or Microsoft, you are a major corporation's product.
    Google offers free (as in beer) services for billions of users world-wide. Through the use of targeted advertising and the all-encompassing Google Account, Google Wallet purchases, Gmail messages and web searches are all under one hub. Frequent Starbucks to the point when traveling you search Maps for the nearest location? What about navigating there? What if on your Nexus you use Google Wallet on their NFC scanner? Google knows where you are, when you are there and how best to target you based on that Hello Kitty forum you linked to your Google Account and the Drive documents you accessed on campus.

    I set up a client on Google apps and had a frantic call as to why Payday loans and Bankruptcy law firm listings were appearing in targeted ads in Gmail. (They use the web client) I explained why - that Google scans the emails for relevant data - and based on emails within the office discussing bankruptcy, loans, and personal notes of what will be spent on payday (bills), certain ads would appear. I told them accessing their email through IMAP would get rid of this, but the concern was still there at messages were scanned for the purpose of advertising. I had to turn off most of the applications in Google to keep them on the service.

    I showed them ads in Yahoo, Hotmail/Live/Outlook and others to prove that it's just the way things are trending. I did show them the $20 I paid for my Outlook account to remove ads and they asked for a simliar solution on Gmail. (Without installing a browser extension) No such luck.

    If you cut out targeted advertising, you take a blowtorch to Google's profits. Since you can never truly opt-out, you either live with it or you don't. My Gmail account has been disabled (by Google) since the beginning of September. I can't restore it because it is being investigated. In the mean time I've lost touch with some people that only have that address plus it's a vanity / Google aps account, meaning I would need to turn off Google Aps and go with another hosting solution to use my email. That's a lot of fuss for an email address.

    Had this happened with Microsoft, I can call up a support number and speak with a rep. Google requires filling out a form and answering emails that ask for the most mundane details from your account's initial setup.
    EvilFiek and falconrap like this.
    09-23-2013 10:13 AM
  7. tgr42's Avatar
    Why is it weak? Oh, right it's you again with your battery graphs, charts and test results.

    Nexus devices have not historically had the best in class specifications. What if I want LTE and I'm on AT&T? What if I want a better camera than what was available on the Nexus 4? What if I want a microSD card to increase storage? Mods and scripts can reverse internal storage with the microSD card, giving you inevitably up to 64GB of usable space for games and applications.

    Google has their own limitations on Android to control what is possible and to calm concerns from developers and content distributors alike. But at the same time its that openness which leads to innovation. Sure, Nexus devices represent pure Android but unlock the bootloader and install Cyanogenmod and you likely have better hardware. Want to compare the Nexus 4 to a Galaxy S4?
    I guess you're not familiar with Google Play edition. You can get the Galaxy S4 or HTC One from Google with stock Android, same advantages as Nexus with the better hardware (and higher price):

    https://play.google.com/store/device...alaxy_s4&hl=en

    I said your argument is weak because if someone doesn't want to deal with all that crap, they don't have to. You try to make it sound like they do, but they don't. Therefore I don't see it as the platform-ruining thing you make it out to be.
    planoman likes this.
    09-23-2013 10:31 AM
  8. wamsille's Avatar
    I guess you're not familiar with Google Play edition. You can get the Galaxy S4 or HTC One from Google with stock Android, same advantages as Nexus with the better hardware (and higher price):

    https://play.google.com/store/device...alaxy_s4&hl=en

    I said your argument is weak because if someone doesn't want to deal with all that crap, they don't have to. You try to make it sound like they do, but they don't. Therefore I don't see it as the platform-ruining thing you make it out to be.
    1. You assume way too much. I am familiar with the Google Play Edition line of devices.
    2. Comparing a Google Play Edition device to a Nexus model isn't "apples to apples", for various reasons.

      If you want Google in charge of your updates, without carrier or manufacturer intervention you will get a Nexus device. If you want an experience similar to a Nexus but want current hardware and high-speed internet you would use a GPE device. Each of them come with their own trade-offs, though.
    3. If you are on a site like XDA, you aren't there because you enjoy using TouchWiz or Sense exclusively. More than likely you want to take an already more than capable Galaxy S4 (non-GPE) and have it running like a beast. You most likely don't want bloatware, want to install software your carrier blocks or enable features not present in the stock ROM it shipped with.



    Does everyone want this? No. More importantly, where did I say this? I didn't. Now here is a statement based more on fact - if you frequent XDA you aren't likely the typical consumer. Percentage wise you might not account for 80% of Android devices in use but you aren't a vocal miniority either. These users - rather the developers that address these and more important concerns - drive Android development. Obviously people think there is room for improvement, otherwise why invest the time to tinker with it so much? Phone today aren't necessarily computers - show me a phone that comes with a high spec range and allows me to install iOS, Android or Windows Phone.

    If I want high-end hardware but a Nexus-like experience, I need to spend $600 if I don't want to root and run ROMs. If I want to get a phone that could be somewhat dated on lanch I could get an actual Nexus for about $200 cheaper. It's unlocked, but typically it's a GSM-only device.

    Seems to me like there is a fair amount of "crap" people might have subject themselves to in order to get the device they want.

    /applies to iOS
    /applies to Windows Phone
    /applies to Blackberry
    /applies to slashes
    09-23-2013 11:55 AM
  9. tgr42's Avatar
    On Google's product pages for the Google Play edition phones it says:

    "The Google Play edition phones automatically receive updates of the latest Android software. Optimized for the latest apps, more storage for your content and a fast, clean user experience all come standard."

    Isn't that the main point of the Nexus experience? I interpret this statement as meaning you get the updates and stock Android. Just like Nexus devices. Is Google's statement here misleading in some way? If not, I fail to see why anyone needs to bother with custom ROMs, themes, and all that complexity that you and others in this thread have argued is a big problem with Android. To me it seems like something that is easily avoided whether you want cheap or expensive hardware.
    09-23-2013 01:07 PM
  10. EvilFiek's Avatar
    Just to chip-in: GPE is not an option for a vast majority of people. It's limited to very few countries, as an example in Germany, which is by no means a third world developing country, I don't get access to GPE devices. Nexus are a go in most of the world but then again, you are pretty limited with the devices in that regard.
    09-23-2013 01:47 PM
  11. wamsille's Avatar
    1. Nexus devices will continue to receive updates first, as they should. This is Google's "do no evil" standard that they will want to continue to maintain.
    2. Google is free to subsidize the Nexus devices all they want; whereas the Google Play Edition devices will be your typical unlocked devices running plain Android.
    3. Devices are designed to run Android, but the software they were designed to run with is optimized to take advantage of hardware - plain Android is not.
    09-23-2013 02:19 PM
  12. tgr42's Avatar
    Ok, seems there is more to Google Play edition than meets the eye. Thank you both for the information.

    Well, bring on the Nexus 5 I guess. :)
    09-23-2013 02:30 PM
  13. wamsille's Avatar
    Ok, seems there is more to Google Play edition than meets the eye. Thank you both for the information.

    Well, bring on the Nexus 5 I guess. :)

    What you get is a lean, extremely useable version of Android (the most recent one at that) on some of the best hardware available, but at a premium price. If cost is a concern, we'd opt for the cheapest means available — begged, borrowed or stolen subsidized — and then hack it on there via unofficial means, or otherwise.

    -Phil via Android Central


    To better understand what Google is doing, let’s put this into perspective.
    Let’s take a Shelby Mustang Cobra and take away all the various tweaks and customizations in it that make the high-performance parts so efficient. You’ll still have top-tier parts in the car but not necessarily the soul of the car. You’ll have a Samsung Galaxy S4, but minus TouchWiz and the various camera optimizations that the tuned Android build included.

    It can be said that AOSP applied to just about any phone will make it run faster. Earlier models this was more pronounced, especially those built by HTC. I remember getting noticable speed gains rooting my Droid Eris and Droid Incredible. Heck, let’s look at the Nexus S – BuglessBeast made that device fly.

    But that has as much to do with the software running the device as the hardware pushing it.


    The Nexus S in its own right was a fabulous phone. Gingerbread was great on that phone, ICS not so much. Jellybean can run on the phone but I’ve seen more slowdown with it than I care to acknowledge. I’m kind of partial to the Nexus S 4G, as I was on Sprint at the tail end of this phone’s life cycle and couldn’t resist “pure Google”. I’ve tried multiple phones and multiple operating systems. One of the easiest ways to get the fine-tuned performance out of a device you need is to run a customized build. Every Android device I owned was rooted at some point and ran a customized version of the OS.

    This is why Windows Phone can be successful – if Microsoft became the only handset producer for the OS and developed hardware (through Nokia) and fine-tuned software to take advantage of superior components the sky is the limit. Android tries, albiet with moderate success, to be all things to all people. Unfortunately you can’t escape fragmentation within the ecosystem, and that is because everyone is allowed to add aftermarket performance parts and accessories. Some devices end up being Shelby Cobras, others end up being Honda Civics with excessively loud mufflers and neon lights underneath the car.

    Has HTC made some great Windows Phone devices? Yes. Samsung? But most of the marketshare has been captured by Nokia who went all in with their manufacturing strategy, although an Android-based device was tested as a “Plan B”. Because the focus was on Windows Phone, the devices themselves were simply better. If Samsung put as much effort in a…Galaxy W… device, would we really see Nokia bought out by Microsoft? I’d venture to say Nokia would be a player in both Windows Phone and Android.

    I therefore cannot compare an “experience” phone to the real thing. The GPE device doesn’t bring anything worthwhile to the table. It is a specialized build that comes with high-performance parts at the expense of the software that was tuned to run it from the start. A Nexus device is designed with hardware and software working in concert; not necessarily optimized for each other but as an example of what is possible when similar hardware/software is paired together. And with a price difference of several hundred dollars, no carrier subsidies and limited availablity (networks, regions) it is a me, too device.

    Get a cheaper Android and root it. Install Cyanogenmod and get the benefits of plain Android for the price.
    09-23-2013 03:22 PM
  14. planoman's Avatar
    What you get is a lean, extremely useable version of Android (the most recent one at that) on some of the best hardware available, but at a premium price. If cost is a concern, we'd opt for the cheapest means available — begged, borrowed or stolen subsidized — and then hack it on there via unofficial means, or otherwise.

    -Phil via Android Central


    To better understand what Google is doing, let’s put this into perspective.
    Let’s take a Shelby Mustang Cobra and take away all the various tweaks and customizations in it that make the high-performance parts so efficient. You’ll still have top-tier parts in the car but not necessarily the soul of the car. You’ll have a Samsung Galaxy S4, but minus TouchWiz and the various camera optimizations that the tuned Android build included.

    It can be said that AOSP applied to just about any phone will make it run faster. Earlier models this was more pronounced, especially those built by HTC. I remember getting noticable speed gains rooting my Droid Eris and Droid Incredible. Heck, let’s look at the Nexus S – BuglessBeast made that device fly.

    But that has as much to do with the software running the device as the hardware pushing it.


    The Nexus S in its own right was a fabulous phone. Gingerbread was great on that phone, ICS not so much. Jellybean can run on the phone but I’ve seen more slowdown with it than I care to acknowledge. I’m kind of partial to the Nexus S 4G, as I was on Sprint at the tail end of this phone’s life cycle and couldn’t resist “pure Google”. I’ve tried multiple phones and multiple operating systems. One of the easiest ways to get the fine-tuned performance out of a device you need is to run a customized build. Every Android device I owned was rooted at some point and ran a customized version of the OS.

    This is why Windows Phone can be successful – if Microsoft became the only handset producer for the OS and developed hardware (through Nokia) and fine-tuned software to take advantage of superior components the sky is the limit. Android tries, albiet with moderate success, to be all things to all people. Unfortunately you can’t escape fragmentation within the ecosystem, and that is because everyone is allowed to add aftermarket performance parts and accessories. Some devices end up being Shelby Cobras, others end up being Honda Civics with excessively loud mufflers and neon lights underneath the car.

    Has HTC made some great Windows Phone devices? Yes. Samsung? But most of the marketshare has been captured by Nokia who went all in with their manufacturing strategy, although an Android-based device was tested as a “Plan B”. Because the focus was on Windows Phone, the devices themselves were simply better. If Samsung put as much effort in a…Galaxy W… device, would we really see Nokia bought out by Microsoft? I’d venture to say Nokia would be a player in both Windows Phone and Android.

    I therefore cannot compare an “experience” phone to the real thing. The GPE device doesn’t bring anything worthwhile to the table. It is a specialized build that comes with high-performance parts at the expense of the software that was tuned to run it from the start. A Nexus device is designed with hardware and software working in concert; not necessarily optimized for each other but as an example of what is possible when similar hardware/software is paired together. And with a price difference of several hundred dollars, no carrier subsidies and limited availablity (networks, regions) it is a me, too device.

    Get a cheaper Android and root it. Install Cyanogenmod and get the benefits of plain Android for the price.
    GPe devices bring a lot to the table for those that can afford them and like vanilla android. Although the S4 was not designed to run vanilla android it runs it quite well and does everthing I wanted my Nexus 4, (except better, faster and longer) to do but could not because it was subsidized for the masses. I did not mind paying for it. I was not going to use all the features of the S4 and have one and still prefer my s4 Google Edition. It has a 5 inch 1080p screen, LTE, better camera, external SD card (with 64 GB card) and of course google wallet which I use almost daily. Oh yeah and the IR blaster which I really miss on this Lumia 1020!!!

    The updates are prepared by Samsung because it is not exactly the same code as the Nexus and pushed by Google. It was updated to 4.3, 9 days after the Nexus rollout started. It also has the latest security update which Google pushed a week after the Nexus. The beauty or curse of Android is so many OEM's and models and variants which some find overwhelming and others insist on...

    So while some may not see a need for Google Play devices or developer models etc., I do and am glad to pay for a phone that gives be what I want and also what I do not want which is heavy skins and bloatware. Yeah, I could get a cheaper phone and root and ROM it but my kick **** S4 GPe is just the way I want it!

    Now let's get back to discussing windows phones...
    tgr42 likes this.
    09-23-2013 05:22 PM
  15. Nick_1020's Avatar
    Guys..this thread is going a little off topic.

    Can we get back to the original intention of debating what a tw@t my brother is please? :)
    planoman and wpn00b like this.
    09-23-2013 06:09 PM
  16. uopjo6's Avatar
    If you want more gimmicks with princess wallpapers and candy icons with overkill features go for Android. It's got more apps too. S4 to me is a S3s though.

    If you want straight to the point functionality with the best cam in the market go for the 1020. OS is best in the market (IMO) but lacks a few big labels for apps, which seems to be very important to others spoiled with official apps. There are plenty of 3rd party apps in WP8 that are better than the official. You might miss a few games though.

    WP8 is not as open as Android but TBH i think a good smartphone is how it functions well enough to give you what you want. Not given to you for you to customize on your own, that's just lazy. WP8 (and iOS too actually) are limited for a reason. Sometimes less is more if you want a great user experience.
    wpn00b and Nick_1020 like this.
    09-23-2013 11:41 PM
  17. Nick_1020's Avatar
    If you want more gimmicks with princess wallpapers and candy icons with overkill features go for Android. It's got more apps too. S4 to me is a S3s though.

    If you want straight to the point functionality with the best cam in the market go for the 1020. OS is best in the market (IMO) but lacks a few big labels for apps, which seems to be very important to others spoiled with official apps. There are plenty of 3rd party apps in WP8 that are better than the official. You might miss a few games though.

    WP8 is not as open as Android but TBH i think a good smartphone is how it functions well enough to give you what you want. Not given to you for you to customize on your own, that's just lazy. WP8 (and iOS too actually) are limited for a reason. Sometimes less is more if you want a great user experience.
    Well said.
    09-24-2013 02:21 AM
  18. falconrap's Avatar
    Guys..this thread is going a little off topic.

    Can we get back to the original intention of debating what a tw@t my brother is please? :)
    Next time he argues, ask him to see his phone, then trick him to turn away from you, and shove it clear up his *beep*. Once that is accomplished tell him he can now find out what it's like to *beep* a brick!

    Or, you can just tease him about being Google's advertising "female dog" and enjoy.
    09-24-2013 09:12 PM
  19. falconeight's Avatar
    I am a big fan of tech and always have been. I think android is a hot mess and here are my reasons. Tocuhwiz, sense, etc. People say they are skins but they are not. They are actually their own operating systems using android's language. Lack of security, fragmentation, and to much differentiation in their product.

    Look at the picture with BBM in it. None of them are real but they all make their way into the app store. That is horrible and its dangerous.

    Then they have low end garbage with a terrible user experience that is no where near as close to the experience you get in a HTC one. But look at the HTC one. It has a small clock and a giant clock. Its redundant and uses resources.
    Attached Thumbnails fake-bbm-android.jpeg   micromax-android-a60.jpg   htc_one.png  
    09-24-2013 11:12 PM
  20. RainbowSeven's Avatar
    Got both devices. SGS 4 with Touch Wiz lags as hell, it unbearable (IMO).

    Pro SGS4:
    * better 5" full hd screen
    * more apps on Android than WP8

    Pro 1020:
    * all the rest (better camera, resposiveness)
    09-25-2013 02:17 AM
  21. buxz777's Avatar
    why do you need to prove yourself to your brother ..... a bit of banter is all very well but going to the lenghths to start an internet thread to come up with things to win an arguement is silly both phones are great and have pluses and negatives to them

    seriously either sell your phone and grab a s4 or just enjoy using the 1020 ......... ive just sold my s4 and bought a 64gb yellow 1020 and am happy as larry and wont be going back to android in a hurry now i have my dream phone ;-)
    09-25-2013 04:53 AM
  22. Nick_1020's Avatar
    why do you need to prove yourself to your brother ..... a bit of banter is all very well but going to the lenghths to start an internet thread to come up with things to win an arguement is silly both phones are great and have pluses and negatives to them

    seriously either sell your phone and grab a s4 or just enjoy using the 1020 ......... ive just sold my s4 and bought a 64gb yellow 1020 and am happy as larry and wont be going back to android in a hurry now i have my dream phone ;-)
    Thanks for that buddy.
    09-25-2013 06:08 AM
  23. anony_mouse's Avatar
    But look at the HTC one. It has a small clock and a giant clock. Its redundant and uses resources.
    You can remove the big clock if you don't like it. Personally, I like it because it's easy to see even if you are some distance away from the phone. This might happen, for example, because you are polishing your favourite picture of Steve which is a few metres away from your phone.
    09-26-2013 07:39 AM
  24. iliramove's Avatar
    Before you get the Lumia, go to windowsphone.com and check out the apps they have. See if they cover your needs.

    I work as an IT and my job requires me to evaluate, recommend and deploy solutions (ERP, applications, hardware, software, solutions integration and all that kind of things related). In my opinion, WP8 is a great platformvcompared to BB in handling email integration and enterprise office apps. It also has casually good social network integration. The People hub is just brilliant. If you're already heavily invested in apps on Android or iOS platform, you might be better off staying with it. Google services integrates best in Android. Apps availability is best in iOS. However, be honest with yourself and ask yourself this - How many apps do you really need? Are you able to live without them?

    My WP8 is a Lumia 925. I have FB beta, WhatsApp, Skype, 6tag, Flickr, Bing news, Tapatalk, and that's it. The rest comes preinstalled or Nokia/Here apps. I have a peace of mind using it as a smartphone/daily driver. I have since ditched my HTC One, iPhone 5 and they have become my backup/play phones. Once in a while, I still flash custom ROMs on the One, play Blitz on the iPhone 5 but that's it. And I'm upgrading to the Lumia 1020 since they are coming to my region next week. And the Lumia 925 is just a pleasant device to use.

    To your brother, hardware specs does not translate into real world usage. For benchmark junkies, they try to tweak every ounce out of the silicone. But that's it. Who needs Octa core to run a browser on your smartphone? Who needs FHD when you need to zoom in and still scroll? FHD should be on my living room 50" plasma. Who needs advanced LTE when your carrier is so congested? Nokia built their products with hardware/software considerations in their minds. Hardware specs aren't everything. Hell, iPhone 5s has dual core and 1GB RAM but still beats the s*** out of the S4.

    Its a smartphone. Use it as it is intended to be. Else, its just another sad case of a user problem.

    Do not let yourself fall into the marketing hype rat race. Its never ending.
    09-27-2013 11:11 PM
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