11-04-2013 03:54 AM
28 12
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  1. amrut_m's Avatar
    I'v been using Pro Shot from riseupgames on my Lumia 920.
    Will be soon upgrading to the 1020,

    I know the is the Nokia Pro Cam, but has any1 tried using Pro Shot on 1020 ?
    Pro Shot was the best app I purchased on WP8 every single penny was worth it.

    I know Nokia Pro Cam is similar but Pro Shot also has tat 1% advantage in setting the saturation and contrast, also helps magnifying in Manual Focus.
    09-22-2013 06:19 AM
  2. Nick_1020's Avatar
    I'm still on the 920 myself and since GDR2/Amber updates, I haven't used ProShot at all.

    I can't see the need for it on the 1020 but others may disagree.
    09-22-2013 06:47 AM
  3. Ed Boland's Avatar
    I bought Proshot back when I was using my 920. Now that I have the 1020, I use Nokia's Pro Cam exclusively.

    Proshot works fine on the 1020, only I don't think it supports the hi-res 34 or 38MP shots. Maybe it will soon after a few updates.
    09-29-2013 07:47 AM
  4. buxz777's Avatar
    the dev has said as soon as he has a 1020 he will find a way to sort out the high res shots , he has set up a thread on dp review for users to ping questions and stuff at him he seems like a nice helpfull guy from posts i have read from him

    maybe if you have any suggestions for the 1020 give him a shout and see if he has one yet ;-)

    here is the thread he started on dp review

    What is the ultimate camera... app?: Open Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
    09-29-2013 07:52 AM
  5. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    the dev has said as soon as he has a 1020 he will find a way to sort out the high res shots , he has set up a thread on dp review for users to ping questions and stuff at him he seems like a nice helpfull guy from posts i have read from him

    maybe if you have any suggestions for the 1020 give him a shout and see if he has one yet ;-)

    here is the thread he started on dp review

    What is the ultimate camera... app?: Open Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
    Yup! Workin on getting higher res options in ProShot, it'll be there in the next update in some capacity (still trying to decide what to do about the technical limitations since third party devs don't have the same hardware access as Nokia).

    I'm glad someone saw my thread on DPReview! I'm pretty bummed that I couldn't get a discussion going. We're definitely heading into a world where most compact cameras will be irrelevant-- only phones, high-spec compacts, and interchangeable lens systems will exist within the next 5 years (Panasonic just announced that they're abandoning the compact camera market, others will follow). Since so much photography is done on cell phones, I wanted to hear the opinions of the most active photography enthusiast community in the world, what is their ideal camera app? Instead of debating about sensors, lenses, and dynamic range, I would have loved to have an open conversation about UI, workflow, etc.

    Sigh. Oh well.. perhaps I'll bump the thread one last time when I finish ProShot v2.9.
    Nick_1020 and blue1k like this.
    10-03-2013 04:01 PM
  6. buxz777's Avatar
    mate dont be disheartened your app is great there is a whole thread in the 920 section where people have rocked your app to get some serious pics ;-) its a shame that no one sparked up a convo on dp review , i find their reviews top notch but some users very ''know it all'' type of people so please dont be disheartened by the no response there , as you make your app for windows phone why not open a thread here about it or in the apps section if you havent already , this site has a good following and i have seen some decent discussions flowing and users respecting each others views instead of ramming i am right down each others throat ;-)

    ive bought your app , thought it was a bargain , helped me love the 920 camera more it has some great features , the thing with the 1020 camera is nokia pro cam installed on the device and utilizing the 41mp sensor , if you do make a 1020 version will it do the ''pureview'' magic , will you still use Nokia jpeg processing or do you add anything to that side of things? will it have features like c1 c2 c3 so users can save predefined settings for quick access?

    as a devoloper what do you think of the ui in nokia pro cam? its very different so at 1st i found it a little confusing , watched the tutorial and now love it , maybe you can take some of the ideas from that and mod them improve them?

    i am sure you can get an active discussion going on this forum with many users of your app to throw in some ideas

    oh by the way its always nice to see a dev of a popular app in a forum speaking to users getting ideas ....... if only phone manufactures done the same actively we would all have the devices we've wanted lol
    10-03-2013 04:37 PM
  7. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    mate dont be disheartened your app is great there is a whole thread in the 920 section where people have rocked your app to get some serious pics ;-) its a shame that no one sparked up a convo on dp review , i find their reviews top notch but some users very ''know it all'' type of people so please dont be disheartened by the no response there , as you make your app for windows phone why not open a thread here about it or in the apps section if you havent already , this site has a good following and i have seen some decent discussions flowing and users respecting each others views instead of ramming i am right down each others throat ;-)

    ive bought your app , thought it was a bargain , helped me love the 920 camera more it has some great features , the thing with the 1020 camera is nokia pro cam installed on the device and utilizing the 41mp sensor , if you do make a 1020 version will it do the ''pureview'' magic , will you still use Nokia jpeg processing or do you add anything to that side of things? will it have features like c1 c2 c3 so users can save predefined settings for quick access?

    as a devoloper what do you think of the ui in nokia pro cam? its very different so at 1st i found it a little confusing , watched the tutorial and now love it , maybe you can take some of the ideas from that and mod them improve them?

    i am sure you can get an active discussion going on this forum with many users of your app to throw in some ideas

    oh by the way its always nice to see a dev of a popular app in a forum speaking to users getting ideas ....... if only phone manufactures done the same actively we would all have the devices we've wanted lol
    Thank you, I do my best to be as candid and accessible as possible :)

    I don't want to say just yet what I'm going to do about higher-res cameras, I'm still debating which approach I am going to take. But *something* is certainly going to be there in the next version of ProShot.

    I think that the UI in Nokia's Pro Cam is a great bridge between beginner and pro. It's very elegant. Seriously props to the team who made it (some of whom I've been fortunate enough to met).

    Unfortunately, for the way I use my camera, I have found Nokia's app to be clunky compared to ProShot. The hit targets are small, and since there is no option to recall custom settings, my workflow with that app is very slow. For me, ProShot offers quicker and clearer access to not only the features I use most, but to pretty much all camera settings.

    For example, say I want to turn the flash on. In Pro Cam, I have to press a very tiny hit target up to 5 times in order to cycle through all of the options. In ProShot, the same can be done almost instantaneously. I also find it much easier to pull focus in ProShot; the MF assist feature makes the process a breeze (quick tip: when in AF mode, slide your finger along the focus dial and it will automatically go into MF mode).

    Just curious, which features in Pro Cam do you feel improve your workflow compared to ProShot? I am always looking for new ways to improve what I've built! The only thing that kills me is that Microsoft still doesn't allow third party apps to launch from the camera button. Sometimes time is of the essence, and the lens selection menu is inconvenient when you have many lenses installed.
    buxz777 likes this.
    10-03-2013 05:38 PM
  8. marratj's Avatar
    Hi there, first let me say, I also bought ProShot back then for my 920, such a good app has to be supported! A question that's spinning around in my mind already for a while you can probably answer regarding the 1020's oversampling.

    In ProShot you do get the 5 MP picture from the camera, do you know how this one is produced by the camera firmware? Is the oversampling the same that is used in Nokia Pro Cam or is it different if you just grab the 5 MP from the sensor (without zooming in)? Or can you even implement custom oversampling algorithms or these determined by the firmware only?
    10-04-2013 03:05 AM
  9. tgr42's Avatar
    I just wanted to mention that not being able to launch from the camera button may not be such a big deal for those of us who are required to secure the phone with a PIN. I almost always end up unlocking the phone and then starting Pro Cam from a live tile rather than using the camera button. This way is actually faster for me because I don't have to wait for any button hold.

    I also agree with you about the UI in Pro Cam - it's not too bad, but there's definitely plenty of room for improvement. In particular, it would be nice to have a more advanced and efficient UI that is not so squarely aimed at amateurs.

    I'm looking forward to trying ProShot and other third party camera apps once they have support for capturing the full-res images.
    10-04-2013 07:54 AM
  10. Sebsweden's Avatar
    Can I just say to the ProShot-dev, that you could differentiate your product from Pro Cam by developing the video-side a little. Shooting video on WP is still at a pretty basic level.
    10-04-2013 08:06 AM
  11. thelostsoul's Avatar
    I'm glad I bought it during your sale, and I really like the app as a whole. I definitely agree with the usability versus Pro Cam. Unfortunately, the two features that make it not worth using on the 1020 are that it doesn't save both, the oversampled image and the full-size image, and that it can't be set as the default camera button app. If those two could be implemented, it would definitely be my primary camera app! It is unfortunate that these are not currently documented API called, but perhaps Nokia developer support could help you access them easier?

    The only UI problem I have is that everything can be controlled or managed with your right hand, except profile management, shutter control, and exposure adjustments. Those also happen to be control that would be nice to have faster access to. Is there anyway to move them to the rights side of the screen for easier access?

    Otherwise, you really have done an amazing job with this app! Keep up the good work!
    10-04-2013 08:36 AM
  12. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    Hi there, first let me say, I also bought ProShot back then for my 920, such a good app has to be supported! A question that's spinning around in my mind already for a while you can probably answer regarding the 1020's oversampling.

    In ProShot you do get the 5 MP picture from the camera, do you know how this one is produced by the camera firmware? Is the oversampling the same that is used in Nokia Pro Cam or is it different if you just grab the 5 MP from the sensor (without zooming in)? Or can you even implement custom oversampling algorithms or these determined by the firmware only?
    The answer I got from a Nokia dev during a Q&A was that the 5MP image is indeed sampled from the full 41MP sensor output, the exact same produced by Pro Cam's 5MP mode.



    Can I just say to the ProShot-dev, that you could differentiate your product from Pro Cam by developing the video-side a little. Shooting video on WP is still at a pretty basic level.
    I wish I could, but the video API is not nearly as robust as the photo side. Pretty much everything that's possible with video in Windows Phone is in Pro Cam.

    The ridiculous thing about the video API on WP is that third party devs can't even save video to the camera roll, it can only be saved to local storage, which means that the videos can only be accessed within the app. I doubt that would make many people happy, so video is not really worth pursuing at this point :/



    I'm glad I bought it during your sale, and I really like the app as a whole. I definitely agree with the usability versus Pro Cam. Unfortunately, the two features that make it not worth using on the 1020 are that it doesn't save both, the oversampled image and the full-size image, and that it can't be set as the default camera button app. If those two could be implemented, it would definitely be my primary camera app! It is unfortunate that these are not currently documented API called, but perhaps Nokia developer support could help you access them easier?

    The only UI problem I have is that everything can be controlled or managed with your right hand, except profile management, shutter control, and exposure adjustments. Those also happen to be control that would be nice to have faster access to. Is there anyway to move them to the rights side of the screen for easier access?

    Otherwise, you really have done an amazing job with this app! Keep up the good work!
    It's unfortunately not possible to set third party camera apps to the camera button, which is why I made a petition to Microsoft here: Allow camera button to launch a Lens app. I'd really appreciate everyone's vote!

    As far as getting higher-res images off the phone, I have an idea. Not sure if it's going to work (we don't have the same hardware access as Nokia), but I'm going to give it a shot. I don't want to give the idea away before verifying that it works. I'm trying to balance functionality and performance. A pro-level app is no good if it's slow :)
    10-04-2013 12:12 PM
  13. thelostsoul's Avatar
    It's unfortunately not possible to set third party camera apps to the camera button, which is why I made a petition to Microsoft here: Allow camera button to launch a Lens app. I'd really appreciate everyone's vote!
    I still don't understand why ProCam can be, but third party can't hook into that. There has to be a parameter that needs to be applied to your app. Have you attempted to reverse engineer the way ProCam does it? I'm not sure how much experience you have, or if maybe someone at XDA-Devs could help maybe? Unfortunately, I haven't had time too learn WP development as much as I want to, so sorry if I just sound ignorant here.

    As far as getting higher-res images off the phone, I have an idea. Not sure if it's going to work (we don't have the same hardware access as Nokia), but I'm going to give it a shot. I don't want to give the idea away before verifying that it works. I'm trying to balance functionality and performance. A pro-level app is no good if it's slow :)
    Interesting - I like the sound of this. I definitely agree that speed is very important. I really do not like how slow ProCam is. If you'd like any assistance in testing, or input on ideas, feel free to PM me. I work in Engineering and testing is a big part of my job, so I might be able to help if you have a need.
    10-04-2013 12:37 PM
  14. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    I still don't understand why ProCam can be, but third party can't hook into that. There has to be a parameter that needs to be applied to your app. Have you attempted to reverse engineer the way ProCam does it? I'm not sure how much experience you have, or if maybe someone at XDA-Devs could help maybe? Unfortunately, I haven't had time too learn WP development as much as I want to, so sorry if I just sound ignorant here.
    I'm positive there's a public (but undocumented) hook into this feature. I'm pretty dense about reverse engineering things, though.

    Interesting - I like the sound of this. I definitely agree that speed is very important. I really do not like how slow ProCam is. If you'd like any assistance in testing, or input on ideas, feel free to PM me. I work in Engineering and testing is a big part of my job, so I might be able to help if you have a need.
    Thank you! I'm a little too overwhelmed by work to look into betas at the moment, but perhaps one day
    10-04-2013 04:05 PM
  15. Ronald Urbassik's Avatar
    He should have posted it in Mobile Photography Talk instead of Open Talk.
    10-08-2013 01:30 AM
  16. Lurchorama's Avatar
    I really like your app mate.
    The only things I'm still looking for is a) the app launch from the button as mentioned, b) a digital ND Grad filter, and c) more control over the flash (even just just simple EV+/- or just a Fill Flash option)
    10-08-2013 06:20 AM
  17. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    He should have posted it in Mobile Photography Talk instead of Open Talk.
    Sigh, I did post it in Mobile Photography What is the ultimate camera... app?: Mobile Photography Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review but it didn't get any responses. Decided to move it to Open Talk and it got buried.

    It think it's an important discussion to have as we move away from dedicated cameras and reach to our phones more and more for photography. I want to know what features people want, what features they use the most, what their typical workflow is, etc. With mobile photography, it's very much about being in the moment, grabbing that capture, and moving on, and I want ProShot to represent the seamless connection between human and hardware that embodies this philosophy.

    I wish I could have gotten some feedback. This is app for all of you, all of the shutterbugs, tinkerers, pros, enthusiasts, and beginners alike. I want there to be zero barriers between you and getting the picture you want.

    Ok, jumping off my soap box now, haha.



    I really like your app mate.
    The only things I'm still looking for is a) the app launch from the button as mentioned, b) a digital ND Grad filter, and c) more control over the flash (even just just simple EV+/- or just a Fill Flash option)
    Thank you, glad to hear you like it!
    Unfortunately, I've got some bad news.

    a) is not yet possible. I've created a petition here: Allow camera button to launch a Lens app to get things going. I'd really appreciate your vote!

    b) I've considered adding a digital graduated ND filter, but since the camera hardware only shoots jpeg, the highlights in the sky would still be clipped, and my concern is setting high expectations out there for this feature, but not being able to deliver. Still something I've got to look into a bit more.

    c) neither of those are possible :( The camera API on Windows Phone is the best out there in my opinion, but it is severely lacking in quite a few departments, specifically flash behavior. We have zero control over the flash other than ON / OFF / AUTO at the time of capture. We also can't turn on the LED when the camera is in stills mode, and we can't do anything like red-eye-reduction flash, fill, or anything like that.
    Last edited by RiseUpGames; 10-08-2013 at 01:08 PM. Reason: cleaned up formatting
    10-08-2013 01:05 PM
  18. antiochian2010's Avatar
    Developer.. THANK YOU for checking on the sampling; I mostly use PRO now anyway except for Macro so as long as your 5MP is produced by oversampling as you mentioned, I now have no issue making this my primary cam - especially since now I can use presets! Hope someday I can actually program this on the 1020 camera button..

    My 2 cents..

    Both photos taken on ProCam and ProShot - Flash Off. Everything Auto:

    ProShot:
    10161004123_862c5e8514_b.jpg

    Nokia ProCam:
    10160893555_f6871f8e58_b.jpg

    Can't notice too much difference. Subject matter is superboring (from my work desk) except ProShot seems top have nicer white balance..
    RiseUpGames likes this.
    10-08-2013 04:06 PM
  19. antiochian2010's Avatar
    Couldn't resist.. one more ProShot forced at 100 ISO.. man this is giving clean images - is this program a winner or what??

    10161188786_4c3309b066_b.jpg
    RiseUpGames likes this.
    10-08-2013 04:13 PM
  20. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    Update:

    I'm still working on adding higher resolution options to ProShot without compromising performance. It's been a rough ride! (even with Nokia's Imaging SDK). I might have some news to report in the coming days.
    10-09-2013 01:59 PM
  21. thelostsoul's Avatar
    Thanks antiochian2010 for those comparison shots! I'd been trying to see if ProShot is better than ProCam with White balance or not, and I'm glad to see that it is!

    RiseUpGames: Glad to hear that progress is being made! I really like ProShot and really want to use it as my default camera app. The inability to set it as default for the button is really annoying, so I hope that gets fixed soon. I'm personally going to try and learn the WP API to see if it can be hacked at all, though I doubt I'll be able to do what you couldn't. Would you be able to suggest some good resources? I already have a dev account, so I can use those resources.
    10-10-2013 09:22 AM
  22. spinzeroWL's Avatar
    I'm pleased to see that the ProShot dev is so active! I intend on buying the app later today on the strength of the trial (it seems to give a cleaner/more accurate version of what I am seeing prior to taking the photo, whereas the Nokia apps seem to do lots of post processing which alter the picture markedly).

    Before I purcase, could anyone confirm whether ProShot does post processing - or whether the image on the view finder is the image that ends up in the camera roll? My 920 always looks like it is about to take an AMAZING picture, then Nokia's post-processing comes along and mutes all of the colours!

    Features I would love to see (in order of preference);
    - Being able to set ProShot as the default camera app!
    - Touch to focus ONLY (rather than touch to focus and take a photo)
    - One of those left/right arrow buttons that allow us to select other 'lenses'. It's a chore having to exit the app in order to re-enter ProCam just to use the video function
    - HDR photos! Or at the very least, exposure bracketing (HDR built-in would be fantastic though).

    All in all though, a tremendous app -- particularly if it saves the photo exactly as it was shot...
    10-10-2013 10:49 AM
  23. antiochian2010's Avatar
    Before I purcase, could anyone confirm whether ProShot does post processing - or whether the image on the view finder is the image that ends up in the camera roll? My 920 always looks like it is about to take an AMAZING picture, then Nokia's post-processing comes along and mutes all of the colours!
    - HDR photos! Or at the very least, exposure bracketing (HDR built-in would be fantastic though).

    All in all though, a tremendous app -- particularly if it saves the photo exactly as it was shot...


    My 2 cents -

    Unless I stand corrected, ALL photos taken on Windows phones are post processed by nature since there has never been a dedicated image chip processor. IMO the post processing algorithm for white balance in ProShot is superior to that in Nokia Pro Cam. But with a tweak in the algorithm I'm sure Nokia will catch back up.
    Nokia though has a long way to go in other respects - such as retoring program shooting and custom presets - that will be a huge software update since they'd have to change the core program - almost revamp it completely. So except for rare shots like closeup macro, I'm using ProShot.

    HDR is a whole different ball game. I could see ProShot adding bracketing for those who prefer to shoot and tinker with later. To do the HDR processing in the phone - if done correctly - I think really justifies having a complete program dedicated to HDR. I think I have found that in HDR Photo Camera.

    HDR Photo Camera | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)

    I think this is better than anything I even found on Android..
    10-10-2013 11:22 AM
  24. RiseUpGames's Avatar
    Thanks antiochian2010 for those comparison shots! I'd been trying to see if ProShot is better than ProCam with White balance or not, and I'm glad to see that it is!

    RiseUpGames: Glad to hear that progress is being made! I really like ProShot and really want to use it as my default camera app. The inability to set it as default for the button is really annoying, so I hope that gets fixed soon. I'm personally going to try and learn the WP API to see if it can be hacked at all, though I doubt I'll be able to do what you couldn't. Would you be able to suggest some good resources? I already have a dev account, so I can use those resources.
    Depending on how experienced of a coder you are what type of learner (visual, aural, hands-on, etc), these videos could be a good start (mainly for beginners, but they do provide a good overview of things): Building Apps for Windows Phone 8 Jump Start | Channel 9

    They do perhaps a little too much fluff talk at times, but I personally learn best by watching others, and then diving right in to sample apps, breaking things, and figuring out how to make them work again. I also pretty much live on Stack Overflow.

    Best of luck! If you can figure out the API call to integrate ProShot as a selectable default lens, please please please share :)


    I'm pleased to see that the ProShot dev is so active! I intend on buying the app later today on the strength of the trial (it seems to give a cleaner/more accurate version of what I am seeing prior to taking the photo, whereas the Nokia apps seem to do lots of post processing which alter the picture markedly).

    Before I purcase, could anyone confirm whether ProShot does post processing - or whether the image on the view finder is the image that ends up in the camera roll? My 920 always looks like it is about to take an AMAZING picture, then Nokia's post-processing comes along and mutes all of the colours!

    Features I would love to see (in order of preference);
    - Being able to set ProShot as the default camera app!
    - Touch to focus ONLY (rather than touch to focus and take a photo)
    - One of those left/right arrow buttons that allow us to select other 'lenses'. It's a chore having to exit the app in order to re-enter ProCam just to use the video function
    - HDR photos! Or at the very least, exposure bracketing (HDR built-in would be fantastic though).

    All in all though, a tremendous app -- particularly if it saves the photo exactly as it was shot...
    Glad you hear you're enjoying it so far!

    Just FYI, you can view the image that gets saved to the camera roll, even in the trial version. Just swipe to the right :) It's there in ProShot's memory, you can zoom in and inspect the details. The only thing is it doesn't get saved to the camera roll.

    One unfortunate thing about the Amber update is that it muddies images captured at higher ISOs (800+). Everything turns yellow and it will affect all camera apps. I haven't tested to see if the effect in ProShot is as extreme as ProCam, but it's a firmware thing that can't be avoided. Only Nokia can fix their color processing, any other fix would have to be done in post.

    Speaking of which, ProShot does not do any post processing (unless you want it to by adjusting the contrast / saturation values).

    For the feature requests

    1) It really saddens me that this isn't possible with third party lenses yet, especially since it's there with Nokia's apps. Petition here: Allow camera button to launch a Lens app

    2) Coming with or just before v3.0

    3) I'd like to add this, too, but there's no public API for it :/

    4) Definitely plan on adding this, but I haven't looked into it yet. Have other good stuff I'm working on first ;)


    Edit

    Side note: you can 'hack' a bracketing mode in ProShot by using the self-timer. Go to the self-timer, select "multi-shot". Multi-shot will take 3 exposures in a row, with a 3 second delay. During the delay between shots you can quickly adjust the exposure slider to 0, -2, +2. It actually works if you're using a tripod :p
    spinzeroWL likes this.
    10-10-2013 11:56 AM
  25. spinzeroWL's Avatar
    Thanks for replying - really pleased to see how active you are in answering our questions.
    I had been checking the photos taken in ProShot - I just figured it would be like Nokia's apps where the actual camera roll picture is different to the one that is taken after the shutter closes (and different to the one saved in temporary memory).
    That iso800 limitation is really interesting - I never even thought the over processing issue was iso related! With that in mind, is it possible to set a maximum iso in a future release (auto iso, max 400 for instance). It would be great to have a daytime preset live tile (c1) with a max auto iso of 400...and a night time preset tile with unlimited maximum iso...
    Anyway, I didn't think I'd say it (because I love Nokia's WP efforts)...but your camera lens is infinitely more powerful than ProCam. The live tile custom presets are really useful. Between this app and ProCam's video, I have all I need for mobile camera work.
    By the way, what's your tripod setup like? I've had a look on Ebay - most of the solutions are pretty ugly!
    Final thing, can you give us a feature list for your upcoming Proshot updates? Would be really interesting to know what you have planned (and when it's likely to be released :)...)
    Thank you - and keep up the fine work!
    10-11-2013 03:18 AM
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