04-04-2014 07:06 PM
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  1. Nick_1020's Avatar
    Guys one question. ..wen I transfer all my stuff frm 808 to to 1020 will all my bookmarks, notes, other stuff will transfer....coz I have impt notes in it...
    I don't think it's possible to sync bookmarks to the 1020 and notes are not compatible afaik. However, OneNote is a fantastic alternative and with SkyDrive/Office, you should be well covered.
    jeetu4444 likes this.
    10-08-2013 01:24 PM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    1020 rules all, 'nuff said!
    10-08-2013 01:27 PM
  3. JustToClarify's Avatar
    1020 rules all, 'nuff said!
    if you will feel better then let it be so ;)
    10-08-2013 01:29 PM
  4. theefman's Avatar
    It is so, just a few old timers refuse to believe it.
    10-08-2013 01:54 PM
  5. jeetu4444's Avatar
    Guys its a matter of choice...both r gr8 cameras....both have their positives and negatives. ..let just be happy both r by nokia... :).
    .iam happy I will have both ;)
    Nick_1020 likes this.
    10-08-2013 02:03 PM
  6. vlad0's Avatar
    At this point I really don't care who makes them or what OS they are running.. all I look at is the image quality :) The rest of the smartphone features in most smartphones post 2012 overlap for the most part.. at least for me they all do the same thing, so the camera is the important differentiator.

    I take 20-30 photos per day, and with the 808 about 80% of those are spot on.. really nice clean images that I get to enjoy on a big screen, and since they are very neutral/natural to begin with I can easily play around with them in photoshop or whatever. Also the xenon flash is very consistent, the focus.. less so, but you just learn how to deal with it at night. For the most part tho.. great night/bar pics.
    Nick_1020 likes this.
    10-08-2013 02:22 PM
  7. antiochian2010's Avatar

    1. Daylight images: 1020 = 808 (roughly equal)
    2. Macro: 1020 >> 808
    3. Lowlight images: 1020 >>>> 808
    4. Video: 1020 >>>>>> 808

    It's not even close.
    I would take exception on Macro..

    Mine would be:

    Macro: 1020=808

    First - Macro is the only setting where I actually utilize a full hi-res shot. Everything else I now shoot as 'pro' 5MP. At full res, the 1020 images have significantly more grain than the 808.

    However, the one advantage the 1020 has - and it's huge - is manual focusing. The 808 gave me phenomenally gorgeous Macro, but sometimes I had to spend a lot of time to jimmy it to focus correctly; the 1020 you can set, then shoot - and even though the image is not 100% to par with the 808 it's still pretty damned good - enough for me to get rid of my 808. The other unexpected benefit of the 1020 in Macro mode is the gorgeous bokeh effect it gives the blurred out background. So while I really want to rate 1020<808, these two macro features I think make it deserving of equal status..

    1020:
    9921131575_0ee1c8dff8_b.jpg

    808:

    10160312663_96989ac47b_b.jpg

    1020:
    10160144684_7c144af576_b.jpg

    808:
    10160387416_21b6f41df9_b.jpg

    1020:
    10160247944_c6c7e6e636_b.jpg

    808:
    10160276794_a7816f2e1b_b.jpg

    Like they say.. it's physics, baby!
    Last edited by antiochian2010; 10-08-2013 at 03:19 PM.
    Nick_1020 and jeetu4444 like this.
    10-08-2013 03:06 PM
  8. Bahamen's Avatar
    yeah that's for you(as you have already stated), but how do you know that the user asking will be using only auto mode? In manual mode 1020 is no match for 808, except for video where it also doesn't have 12x zoom and oversampling and what not.
    Please do not assume. I never said that my comment was only for auto mode. The only caveat to my comments is "no tripod, no SteadyCam, no artificial support, just good old handholding".

    Of course I am familiar with all manual settings and I use that to my full advantage, both for 808 and 1020. I know when to adjust the WB when the yellow tint thing comes up in the 1020.
    10-09-2013 03:29 AM
  9. Bahamen's Avatar
    I would take exception on Macro..

    Mine would be:

    Macro: 1020=808
    Like they say.. it's physics, baby!
    No, the 1020's real BIG advantage in macro lies in the minimum focusing distance. You can get MUCH closer to the subject with the 1020, whereas the distance for 808 is much further away. So you need to rely less on digital zooming with the 1020.
    antiochian2010 likes this.
    10-09-2013 03:32 AM
  10. Bahamen's Avatar
    At this point I really don't care who makes them or what OS they are running.. all I look at is the image quality :) The rest of the smartphone features in most smartphones post 2012 overlap for the most part.. at least for me they all do the same thing, so the camera is the important differentiator.

    I take 20-30 photos per day, and with the 808 about 80% of those are spot on.. really nice clean images that I get to enjoy on a big screen, and since they are very neutral/natural to begin with I can easily play around with them in photoshop or whatever. Also the xenon flash is very consistent, the focus.. less so, but you just learn how to deal with it at night. For the most part tho.. great night/bar pics.
    For me, almost all the 1020 images are spot on. There may be the occasional yellow thing particularly indoors, but usually setting the WB to florescent would fix it. I will leave that WB setting on until I move on to the next area with different lighting condition.

    The big difference is that nearly all the 1020 lowlight images are spot on, while the 808 is more like hit-or-miss... either some colour issue with the 808 in lowlight, or motion blur.
    10-09-2013 07:16 AM
  11. Nakazul's Avatar
    Interesting discussion. I saw a review on YouTube comparing the 808 VS the 1020 and my conclusion of that one was that no matter the lighting, both cameras have different strengths and that they both are great. Sometimes the shots made by the 808 got lightning and sharpness wrong, and so did the 1020 with color being a problem. But overall the 1020 performed better. When the 1020 got the picture right it kicked the 808 in the scrotum.
    But also the picture quality comes down to taste. So I see the 808 and 1020 as different cameras with different strength with the 1020 winning in the long run, mostly due to it being newer and today more developed technology. Just the nature of things I guess.
    10-09-2013 07:24 AM
  12. Nick_1020's Avatar
    Interesting discussion. I saw a review on YouTube comparing the 808 VS the 1020 and my conclusion of that one was that no matter the lighting, both cameras have different strengths and that they both are great. Sometimes the shots made by the 808 got lightning and sharpness wrong, and so did the 1020 with color being a problem. But overall the 1020 performed better. When the 1020 got the picture right it kicked the 808 in the scrotum.
    But also the picture quality comes down to taste. So I see the 808 and 1020 as different cameras with different strength with the 1020 winning, mostly due to it being newer and today more developed technology. Just the nature of things I guess.
    I always wondered what was hidden under that hump and now I know :)
    10-09-2013 07:29 AM
  13. Bahamen's Avatar
    In terms of low light, the 1020 might give you a better shot handheld, but even then anything under 1/20 would have some blur. But if you rest the 808 on something, or have a tripod.. again on a per pixel and noise ratio level will produce a jpeg with higher IQ.
    I am yet to come across a cleaner low light image from the 1020...
    This is mostly due to 1020 prioritizing sharpness over noise reduction in their downsampling algorithm. Damian has indicated that if you run the 1020's image through post-processing, the result will be very similar to that of the 808's. From the looks of it, the difference is more software than hardware.

    Yes, I don't care how thick the phone is :) The senor in the 808 is not that much smaller...
    1 inch sensor comes to 12.8 x 9.6mm vs the 1/1.2" on the 808 which comes to 10.67 x 8.00
    If it were that easy, everybody would be doing it. Even Sony's best attempt is just a clip-on thick and bulky lens. It is not so much the AREA of the sensor that is the problem. It is more the thickness of the LENS to be used together with a larger sensor.

    [/B]So they will have to accommodate for 2.13mm width and 1.6mm height on top of the 808's hump/casing... something tells me that with a bit of clever engineering they might be able to keep a similar profile. Of course, they will have to skip the OIS.. and to be honest, having a 1" sensor beats any other feature :)
    I'm sure Nokia engineers are plenty clever. After all, your beloved 808 was their brainchild. As for OIS, I disagree with you. It is an extremely useful feature for lowlights. As I mentioned earlier, I do not carry a tripod everywhere I go. Even if I brought my DSLR, I would still leave the tripod behind. What you're saying is, leave the DSLR at home but bring along the tripod instead? Doesn't make sense. If the new OIS technology can replace the tripod and make your life easier, why not? If you carry a bunch of stuff with you everytime you go photographing, why bother with phone-cams? You're better off bringing your entire DSLR rig with you since you obviously don't mind the inconvenience.
    10-09-2013 07:34 AM
  14. vlad0's Avatar
    This is mostly due to 1020 prioritizing sharpness over noise reduction in their downsampling algorithm. Damian has indicated that if you run the 1020's image through post-processing, the result will be very similar to that of the 808's. From the looks of it, the difference is more software than hardware.
    The thing is that on the 808 you have a choice on how sharp you want your image. There is a scale for sharpness from -5 to +5 .. so its up to the user. On +5 it will be as sharp or sharper than the 1020. They should provide a similar setting on the 1020 for those of us who prefer less noise over sharpness..

    Also, most 1020s I've see blur the edges of the frame, I would say about ~15% of the frame is soft, where with the 808 that's more like 5%.. so the overall sharpness of the whole frame might be about the same, even if you don't manually push the sharpness to the maximum on the 808.

    If it were that easy, everybody would be doing it. Even Sony's best attempt is just a clip-on thick and bulky lens. It is not so much the AREA of the sensor that is the problem. It is more the thickness of the LENS to be used together with a larger sensor..
    I know its much harder, but considering that they got up to 1/1.2" .. I am sure they can go a bit higher, not for mainstream, just as an "enthusiast device"

    I'm sure Nokia engineers are plenty clever. After all, your beloved 808 was their brainchild. As for OIS, I disagree with you. It is an extremely useful feature for lowlights. As I mentioned earlier, I do not carry a tripod everywhere I go. Even if I brought my DSLR, I would still leave the tripod behind. What you're saying is, leave the DSLR at home but bring along the tripod instead? Doesn't make sense. If the new OIS technology can replace the tripod and make your life easier, why not? If you carry a bunch of stuff with you everytime you go photographing, why bother with phone-cams? You're better off bringing your entire DSLR rig with you since you obviously don't mind the inconvenience.
    All I am saying is that I would take a bigger sensor over OIS any day.. You will be taking advantage of the big sensor in all possible scenarios, where the benefits of OIS are only at low light.

    Now, for video.. that's another story.

    whereas the distance for 808 is much further away.
    You have to be 5 cm. further away with the 808... I suppose in macro terms that is a lot.
    10-09-2013 07:54 AM
  15. jeetu4444's Avatar
    I think with camera sensor tat big OIS is very impt...I have tried night shots with increase is ios...but fotos cme blurry. ..have to keep hand very steady wic is very difficult. ...wen I get my 1020 will do full test between 2 fones...till then iam just counting my days to get my lumia 1020 beast
    10-09-2013 09:06 AM
  16. Bahamen's Avatar
    All I am saying is that I would take a bigger sensor over OIS any day.. You will be taking advantage of the big sensor in all possible scenarios, where the benefits of OIS are only at low light.
    A bigger sensor makes the most difference in lowlight situations. In bright lighting, the difference is a lot smaller. Many of the difference in daylight, I already pointed out, is purely due to default algorithm (sharpening vs NR) rather than sensor size.

    For lowlight, OIS can add 2-3 stop advantage, which translates into 400-800% more light received by the camera system. This far outweighs the small difference in sensor size.

    To give an example: with the 1020, you can handhold it between 1/2 to 1/4 seconds. With the 808, you can handhold it between 1/8 to 1/16 seconds. So, the 1020 can capture lowlight images with ISO200-400 while the 808 will need ISO800-1600. The 1020 can even capture pretty usable pictures at ISO2500-4000 (see link below), whereas the 808 would simply not be able to capture anything.

    Link to 1020 lowlights:
    https://plus.google.com/photos/10478...27411805991297

    PS: Yes, you can actually capture reasonable images up to 1/8s even without OIS. With OIS, it can go up to 1 seconds. If you need 1/20s, I'm guessing you got shaky hands ;)
    10-09-2013 09:07 AM
  17. Bahamen's Avatar
    I also want to add this. Before I bought the 1020, I was using my 808 to shoot a concert. I was sitting somewhere at the back of the concert, and used maximum zoom for video recording. I think I was using 360p and 10x zoom or something. Oh yes, the video was shaking like CRAZY. That's when I wished I was recording on the 920, but then the 920 didn't have good zooming capability.

    It was then I had an "EUREKA" moment. It occurred to me, that hand-shaking is a big problem for zooming, and OIS is a perfect solution. It occurred to me, that the OIS, first implemented in the 920, was NOT a random innovation by Nokia. It was actually a natural progression from the 808's 41MP. The 41MP solved the zooming problem in smartphones. The OIS solved the shaking problem caused by zooming. Nokia had actually thought several steps ahead, so that each new invention will complement (rather than replace) the previous one. So it makes perfect sense that OIS and 41MP must eventually come together.
    10-09-2013 09:13 AM
  18. vlad0's Avatar
    You will have a very hard time holding the 808 still for a blur free image at anything below 1/20th, but if you rest it on something or have any arm support.. you could go lower than that.

    The link you posted shows that despite the OIS the 1020 opts for rather high ISO values, which fills the image with noise/grain and you end up loosing detail. I would much rather have the shutter open for longer, but keep the ISO as low as possible, that way you get nice, clean images.

    Take a look at these:


    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2357qBk0ky.jpg
    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2114355dVH.jpg
    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...0045O4gV6b.jpg
    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...18587X390I.jpg
    http://www.esato.com/phonephotos/cam...2130QoD49W.jpg

    Low ISO, max shutter spped. These are all full resolution images, no resize.. I am yet to see a low light image from the 1020 which is as clean as any of those.
    Tech friend likes this.
    10-09-2013 10:20 AM
  19. tgr42's Avatar
    What do you mean by full resolution images? They are only 8MP.

    In my (limited) testing it seems the 1020 can do quite well in low light, provided you use a tripod, low ISO, and long shutter speed. Naturally it's going to default to higher ISO/shorter shutter speed on auto to avoid blurriness due to camera shake. OIS can only do so much.
    10-09-2013 10:30 AM
  20. vlad0's Avatar
    What do you mean by full resolution images? They are only 8MP.
    Full resolution pureview mode pictures.. its better to use pureview for low light, the algorithm cleans up the junk nicely.
    10-09-2013 12:19 PM
  21. tgr42's Avatar
    Full resolution pureview mode pictures.. its better to use pureview for low light, the algorithm cleans up the junk nicely.
    Oh, ok. Yes, resizing will do that. :)
    10-09-2013 12:36 PM
  22. vlad0's Avatar
    Oh, ok. Yes, resizing will do that. :)
    Its not quite simple resizing :)

    If you take a look at the white paper from the Nokia, available here: https://db.tt/4td8Yowr

    You will find this information on page 6



    Then if you read the interview DD gave right after they launched the technology in 2012 here: http://www.gsmarena.com/d_dinning_in...view-728p2.php

    You will find this quote on page 2

    "Now along the way, we realized that there would be other benefits of using this very high resolution sensor, other than just zoom.

    One of those is the oversampling capability.This is where, when you are using the default 5 MP setting, we take up to 7 pixels, take the information that you want from those pixels, and process that using some Nokia algorithms. We are then able to throw away most of the visual noise that you don't want, and what that leaves you with are pixels that are extremely precise, so you see far more detail with a 5 MP image than you could capture with any other device, when you're using no zoom.

    That's when you get the best quality—when you're not using zoom, because you get all the benefits from the oversampling. So in good lighting conditions, typically you won't see any noise at all. They look like SLR images."

    Then if you watch this short video you can visually see what they are talking about.



    All of this predates the 1020 by about a year, and a lot of it applies to it as well.
    10-09-2013 01:14 PM
  23. tgr42's Avatar
    I'm sorry to be the bearer of sad news, my friend, but I'm afraid you've been duped. Any decent quality image resize algorithm does resampling, aka oversampling. Despite Nokia's marketing efforts and whitepapers, they don't actually have any special algorithm that outperforms a standard image resize algorithm. Don't just take my word for it though. It's very easy to prove to yourself. Simply take one of the real full-res images (~38MP), resize it down yourself using software such as Photoshop, Paint.NET, or IrfanView to the same size as the phone's "special" image (5MP or 8MP), and compare the two low-res images at 1:1 zoom level or greater. The results speak for themselves.

    I've demonstrated in another thread here what the 1020's resize from 38MP to 5MP does exactly, and showed here how IrfanView is able to produce a resized image that is just as sharp as the phone's 5MP version but actually has slightly higher quality due to less severe artifacting.

    If you look closely at what Nokia has said, they don't actually claim to have anything beyond the benefits afforded by high resolution. They originally wanted optical zoom, but they gave up on that because they thought going with high resolution was a better tradeoff when all factors were considered. The truth is that the high resolution alone is what makes it possible to resize images down and get better quality at lower resolution. Part of that is related to the Nyquist theorem, and part of it is related to compensating for shoddy sensors that do chroma subsampling (what they call "conventional 8MPix sensors" in the quote above).

    This is nothing against Nokia. They've done a good job with the 808 and 1020. I just think it's unfortunate when marketing gets in the way of understanding reality, especially in cases when that understanding could aid in making properly informed decisions.
    10-09-2013 02:08 PM
  24. vlad0's Avatar
    I know .. they are using something very similar to the lanczos algorithm on the 808 and I've been resizing full resolution images using that same algorithm for a while now. But for some reason in low light the on board algorithm does a better job than what I can do on my PC.

    If I am actually manually doing it, I much rather go higher up in resolution.. I've pushed the 808 up to 18Mpix and it still retains decent IQ. but anything beyond that and the pixels start showing their true 1.4 micron nature.


    15mpix

    11Mpix

    15Mpix

    18Mpix

    12Mpix

    10Mpix
    10-09-2013 02:59 PM
  25. tgr42's Avatar
    Oh, I remember that incredible car picture. It helped sell me on the 1020 in the first place. Thanks! :)
    10-09-2013 03:50 PM
158 1234 ...

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