10-30-2013 07:40 PM
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  1. Bahamen's Avatar
    manual shutter speed and RAW would make 808 perfect :)
    You forgot OIS. Oh wait, that's the 1020...
    Deutscher2 likes this.
    10-23-2013 03:04 AM
  2. JustToClarify's Avatar
    That's very subjective. For me, going from N8 to the 808 had been a tremendous upgrade, and I also consider moving from the 808 to 1020 to be an improvement, although not to the same extent as N8 to 808. The big wins to me is the far better lowlight performance and OIS. I also like the sharper images versus the 808. I guess maybe I'm not as hardcore or purist like some here, I don't subscribe to any religion when it comes to so-called "purity". But of course I can definitely see the value of having the option to have more 808-like images versus the current implementation. I've been arguing for some time now that it seems to be mostly a matter of image processing algorithm in the software and something that Nokia can cater for in future if they so wish to. Great if they can, but I still enjoy the images as they are currently.
    learning how to shoot magnificient low light photos and increase sharpness takes several minutes, how could anyone interested in photography ignore manual mode is beyond me

    difference between auto and manual mode in 808 case is literally night&day

    You forgot OIS. Oh wait, that's the 1020...
    adding OIS on 808 would add some weight which would make it not that pocketable and easy to talk with, also there is sometimes a rattle from ball bearings when you shoot a video, not having OIS in 808 case is what I call a good compromise
    10-23-2013 07:53 AM
  3. Deutscher2's Avatar
    not having OIS in 808 case is what I call a good compromise
    10-23-2013 08:50 AM
  4. chernee99's Avatar
    Having OIS does make a huge difference in very low light. Check out the two samples below, both were taken hand-held. The 1020 with 1/2s, the 808 with 1/8s. That's about the best of my ability to hold the phones without major blurring. With tripod (or other external support) of course it's a different story, but hand-held, the 1020 will give you a brighter picture.

    1020:
    WP_20131023_20_01_12_Pro | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
    808:
    2012-06-13-0378 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    By the way both pictures were taken on different days, but around the same time of the day with similar lighting conditions. The 808's exposure is closer to the actual lighting, but the 1020's being brighter looks much better (although I also took another picture with 1020 around -1EV).
    Deutscher2 likes this.
    10-23-2013 10:30 AM
  5. vlad0's Avatar
    Yes, the 1020 will keep the shutter open for longer and that helps for sure. But still, if you want to blur lights, movement, etc. you will have to put it on a tripod. I don't think OIS can help you keep it steady for a second or two ? But maybe, I haven't had the chance to try it.

    I shot a few low light shots with my 808 last week, but had to use a tiny tripod.. otherwise its impossible. Still, at 50iso they turn out very clean and that Toshiba sensor is very sensitive to light it seems.


    -----




    The 1020 has manual shutter speed control, and its also longer.. 2.7secs for the 808 and 4secs for the 1020.. you can really have some fun with 4 secs
    10-23-2013 10:52 AM
  6. WinU's Avatar
    DPI is meaningless. That is the default output from the device. It has no impact on image quality and can be adjusted in post editing software later but needs to be done properly. Dpi, misunderstandings and explanation, what is dpi
    blue1k likes this.
    10-23-2013 10:55 AM
  7. JustToClarify's Avatar
    I can find external support quite easily in almost all circumstances, exceptions are concerts where I have to hold my hand high or some tricky corners... in those cases I get several pictures varying the ISO. Out of 5 pics one has to come out good :)
    10-23-2013 11:07 AM
  8. chernee99's Avatar
    I can find external support quite easily in almost all circumstances, exceptions are concerts where I have to hold my hand high or some tricky corners... in those cases I get several pictures varying the ISO. Out of 5 pics one has to come out good :)
    Having to rely on external support does restrict your options somewhat. For example, there is a bench somewhere, but it might not be at the correct height or the location may not be ideal to capture the exact frame that you want. Even if you find a support at the correct height and placement, you may sometimes want to point the camera at a certain vertical angle (e.g. in the linked images, the camera had to face slightly downwards). It almost never works well for me. The OIS removes the need to rely on external support and gives you the freedom to shoot at the angle that you want with less motion blur. But of course, if you can always find external support easily then I can understand why you wouldn't need OIS.
    10-23-2013 11:44 AM
  9. JustToClarify's Avatar
    yeah there are tricky angles but I have found my body to be very good support sometimes :)

    agree about framing but that's what we have big resolution for :)
    10-23-2013 02:42 PM
  10. Bahamen's Avatar
    Another feedback on the Nokia Camera update, apparently it no longer modifies your image when you preview it (apparently it previously made the image softer and with different color when you view it). Anyone else observing the same?
    10-23-2013 08:41 PM
  11. blue1k's Avatar
    Another feedback on the Nokia Camera update, apparently it no longer modifies your image when you preview it (apparently it previously made the image softer and with different color when you view it). Anyone else observing the same?
    Yup . Huge improvement for me. Nice job Nokia. Can't wait for raw
    10-24-2013 12:01 AM
  12. blue1k's Avatar
    Ok here are some samples from today with the new Nokia cam app. After looking at today's shots I hold some reservations on my above comment. Shot at 100 iso. 2 crops 100%, and 66% compared to one 100% crop of the 808.
    Both photos is similar conditions. I have a lot more examples. I'm not making this up. I'm just surprised given the praise for this camera only to see this when editing.
    Ya the 1020 is much noisier and I see it even in bright shots. :(

    See for yourself:
    Lumia 1020 100%
    1.jpg
    Lumia 1020 66%
    2.jpg

    Nokia 808 100% crop
    capture1.jpg
    10-24-2013 01:09 AM
  13. Bahamen's Avatar
    Ok here are some samples from today with the new Nokia cam app. After looking at today's shots I hold some reservations on my above comment. Shot at 100 iso. 2 crops 100%, and 66% compared to one 100% crop of the 808.
    Both photos is similar conditions. I have a lot more examples. I'm not making this up. I'm just surprised given the praise for this camera only to see this when editing.
    Ya the 1020 is much noisier and I see it even in bright shots. :(
    The said 1020 images seem to be very heavily pixelated... you sure you're comparing at the right resolution?
    10-24-2013 06:13 AM
  14. buxz777's Avatar
    808 images are cleaner then the 1020s so far ........ ive had both ...... the 1020 is a brilliant camera but the 808 is just immensely clean and pure even at 100% ...... the new update doesnt have the new jpeg processing that was talked about though and what is present in black and the 1520 , noise has been improved so they say in that update so i expect the 1020 images to get a lot cleaner , lets not forget this though too windows jpeg processing is fairly new compared to how long nokia spent with it in symbian , it will get better but due to sensor size and different hardware it may never match it fully

    like i say though the 1020 is still a great camera
    10-24-2013 07:25 AM
  15. alv3st3r's Avatar
    @blue1k Oversampling with upcoming Nokia Black to give more natural and less noisier images!!

    untitled50.jpg

    https://twitter.com/jalakarhu/status/393264134470766592
    10-24-2013 07:44 AM
  16. blue1k's Avatar
    The said 1020 images seem to be very heavily pixelated... you sure you're comparing at the right resolution?
    Yes. Both samples are full resolution images :(
    10-24-2013 08:03 AM
  17. JustToClarify's Avatar
    when is Black expected to come? Eager to see the results...the best would be if they could leave the users to make some presets.
    10-24-2013 08:21 AM
  18. alv3st3r's Avatar
    when is Black expected to come?
    The Verge says Lumia Black update should start rolling out to devices in the coming weeks while Elop at Nokia World said it'll arrive in early 2014.
    blue1k likes this.
    10-24-2013 08:28 AM
  19. blue1k's Avatar
    Well at least Nokia is committed to improving the photo experience :) Can't wait for the firmware update
    10-24-2013 08:50 AM
  20. mrchampipi's Avatar
    @blue1k Oversampling with upcoming Nokia Black to give more natural and less noisier images!!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    https://twitter.com/jalakarhu/status/393264134470766592
    Well thank you!

    Eager to see the results...the best would be if they could leave the users to make some presets.
    Since they'll offer the option to shoot in RAW, I certainly hope they'll also allow us more freedom with presets. Finger crossed!
    10-24-2013 09:09 AM
  21. vlad0's Avatar
    The 808 images, the oversampled ones, have always been cleaner.. it I think that it will remain so. The Nokia Black update should get the 1020 closer tho..

    From GSMarena

    Nokia going back to natural colors for its PureView cameras - GSMArena Blog

    "The oversampling algorithm in the Lumia 1020 was altered compared to the 808 PureView phone resulting in oversaturated colors and noisier images. Well, Nokia is bringing back the old algorithms with the Nokia Black update."


    Spot on GSMarena.

    "RAW support is also on the way."

    They will be using DNG for RAW which will results in files size of around 40mb. I am hoping that they would give a choice of just saving that, without the 5Mpix thing, because considering how slow the shot to shot time on the 1020 is right now, this would slow it down even further.
    Despite that, writing 40 mb to memory will take some time.. my guess would be 7-8 seconds, which is fine.. I mean if you are shooting RAW you are probably set up and have the time. It just won't be ideal for quick snaps.
    They should add a 8-9Mpix mode... 5 is a bit too low.


    Since they'll offer the option to shoot in RAW, I certainly hope they'll also allow us more freedom with presets. Finger crossed!
    They also need to add the 8Mpix mode from the 808.. 5 is a bit too low
    10-24-2013 02:09 PM
  22. vlad0's Avatar
    DPreview did a 808 vs 1020 studio comp.. full size files, the difference would be even greater if they were using the oversampling mode on both phones. It doesn't get more professional than that, does it ?

    A closer look at Pureview: Nokia's 808 and 1020 compared in our studio test scene: Connect

    here you can see some pixel bleeding.. BSI has that issue. The FSI has much cleaner definition between the lines.



    More here:
    DPReview Publishes 808 vs. 1020 Studio Comparison! My Remarks: Mobile Photography Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review



    edge sharpness, of course, no contest



    more noise at base ISO


    Again, the difference will be greater if they use the oversampling mode on both phones. This IQ only.. the fact that the right side of the frame on that 1020 is blurred is just standard I guess

    And it seems like you can use lower ISO on the 808 to achieve the same amount of brightness, with less noise.

    The 1020 is messier overall. I've been generous in my comps by setting both phones at the same ISO, where in fact I can always set the 808 on lower ISO and achieve the same results with less noise.

    And even at base ISO, the 1020 is noisier in some particular colors, which is pointed out here by Menneisyys

    4, chroma noise-wise, at base ISO, the 808 is cleaner in all colors. As you can expect, the blue channel is significantly noisier in the 1020. This is pretty normal – after all, not even APS-C cameras can render blue skies without noise at base ISO – they can't beat the laws of physics. (At least not most of them.) Interestingly, which was pretty much hard-to-anticipate, the red channel, particularly with orange colors, is also significantly(!) more noisy in the 1020. A crop showing this


    And yes, they did set the 808 to 95% jpeg compression.
    ohgood and Tech friend like this.
    10-25-2013 07:13 PM
  23. Tech friend's Avatar
    With regard to the announced RAW file format option, an interesting comment:

    RAW: The Holy Grail of smartphone photography
    10-26-2013 05:22 AM
  24. JustToClarify's Avatar
    I guess DP Review has settled this debate :)
    10-26-2013 08:01 AM
  25. blue1k's Avatar
    I guess DP Review has settled this debate :)
    Yup pretty much. :(
    10-26-2013 02:12 PM
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