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03-01-2015 01:06 PM
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  1. ayejay0601's Avatar
    Just got this phone a few weeks ago. I am soooo happy with it and honestly cant understand some of the complains I have been seeing (except maybe the apps complaint). Battery life, in particular is impressive. And of course camera...

    I returned from a trip to Alaska (photographing Aurora's). I have two of each photo on my phone, a 5MP and a 34MP (as the phone takes both). However, when I open them up on my computer screen, the 34MP photo looks worse than the 5MP photo. It looks a little more blurry and sometimes a bit darker. Does this happen to anyone else and is there is a reason/fix for this? I have attached some images for comparison....you may need to open it up on a larger screen to really see the difference.... thanks in advance for any help. Ok, well it looks like it wont let me upload the bigger files, but I have left the smaller files so you can see how beautiful Alaska is at this time of year.

    One thought that just struck me--could this be occurring because I am viewing this in Windows Photo Viewer? Maybe the viewer (which automatically will resize photos larger than the screen size) is manipulating pixels to and that is causing the distortion?
    Attached Thumbnails wp_20140127_09_18_15_pro.jpg   wp_20140127_12_28_58_pro.jpg   wp_20140126_09_18_27_pro.jpg  
    01-30-2014 07:44 PM
  2. troylytle's Avatar
    Are you shooting in jpeg or raw?
    01-30-2014 08:18 PM
  3. ayejay0601's Avatar
    They are all in JPG
    01-30-2014 08:44 PM
  4. Sean Miller4's Avatar
    Where are the 38 mp ones I only see 5mp?


    Edit I mean 34
    01-30-2014 08:56 PM
  5. John20212's Avatar
    I noticed the same thing when viewing the 34mp photos from my 1020. The problem is that you need to view the photos on a larger screen at higher res to really see them as they should be. The only way I see them at better quality than the 5mp ones is when I put them on full screen on my 17" 1080p laptop screen. Haven't tried on bigger display or higher res display, but from experience anything bellow this will show them more blurry; they are still much better for printing, so if you ever print any shots you should use the higher res ones.
    For viewing on small or low resolution screens the 5mp is probably the better option.
    gpobernardo likes this.
    01-30-2014 09:40 PM
  6. Sean Miller4's Avatar
    These pics he posted are only 5mp you do know how to get the 34 mp from your phone right? Its not the same process chances are you are pulling the 5mp double copy that the phone takes every time it snaps a shot in 34 mp it takes one in 5 mp you probably aren't even looking at the 34mp.
    01-30-2014 09:50 PM
  7. John20212's Avatar
    I haven't looked at his pics, but from my experience I know what he is talking about when he mentions blurriness when viewing both 5mp and 34mp on the PC.
    01-31-2014 01:25 AM
  8. Crasstoe's Avatar
    ...if you ever print any shots you should use the higher res ones.
    For viewing on small or low resolution screens the 5mp is probably the better option.
    THIS!

    The larger files are best viewed on a Retina Display or similar.

    If you view the larger file on a smaller screen it is downsampling at a terrible rate to show the photo. Flickr does a pretty good job of downsampling if you upload the larger files.
    gpobernardo likes this.
    01-31-2014 04:26 AM
  9. Tafsern's Avatar
    THIS!

    The larger files are best viewed on a Retina Display or similar.

    If you view the larger file on a smaller screen it is downsampling at a terrible rate to show the photo. Flickr does a pretty good job of downsampling if you upload the larger files.
    It's called a high resolution display. Retina is just a stupid MADE UP name :)
    01-31-2014 09:00 AM
  10. ayejay0601's Avatar
    Thanks everyone. I downloaded both the 5mp and 34mp from the phone by opening up the folders on my desktop (one is called filename_pro and the other is called filename_highres). One is about 2MB in size and the other is closer to 10MB. So I am pretty sure I am looking at the correct photos. I am also looking at the photos on my 22" desktop screen. My best guess for why this is happening is the "downsampling" that somebody mentioned. I think that when I use windows photo viewer, the image is being downsampled somehow. I am going to try using different screens and different photo viewers to see if that helps.
    01-31-2014 09:33 AM
  11. ayejay0601's Avatar
    Where are the 38 mp ones I only see 5mp?


    Edit I mean 34
    For some reason, I was not able to upload the 34MB photos...I think this site has a limitation on attachment size.
    01-31-2014 09:35 AM
  12. Sean Miller4's Avatar
    Well the 5mp have also been touched up internally by the phone before they hit your computer.
    01-31-2014 01:38 PM
  13. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    Nokia wanted to solve the zoom problem on a phone without using lenses or moving parts, they thought up a solution used in satellite imaging where they use 130mp cameras to take pictures and use the extra resolution to zoom without degradation in quality, of course saving high res images not only would've been a chore to storage capacity but it'll also limit sharing and editing options, so the excellent engineers at Nokia thought of Pureview, its down sampling high res images to 5mp pics while choosing only the best pixels out of the full res picture (as there lots of pixels noise pixels could be skipped while attaining the information filled pixel.
    This way a 5mp shot is a Pureview picture out of a 34/38mp picture that is full of noise and sometimes unwanted extra details.
    You need to understand that you were never meant to use the 34mp to take big pictures (its an added bonus) but you were meant to use that extra mega pixels to zoom on your subject afterwards or during a video.

    I hope this helped, look for Pureview whitepaper from Nokia it explains the technology FULLY.
    01-31-2014 07:01 PM
  14. James8561's Avatar
    yea try viewing it on a 1080p (at least) monitor using photoshop or something like that.
    02-01-2014 12:56 AM
  15. Crasstoe's Avatar
    1080p isn't enough to view all the information in one hit from the larger photos, you need more pixels dammit! Think 4K 😃

    Sent from my RM-875_eu_euro1_211 using Tapatalk
    02-01-2014 02:33 AM
  16. Harshv61's Avatar
    02-01-2014 09:11 AM
  17. thelostsoul's Avatar
    Nokia wanted to solve the zoom problem on a phone without using lenses or moving parts, they thought up a solution used in satellite imaging where they use 130mp cameras to take pictures and use the extra resolution to zoom without degradation in quality, of course saving high res images not only would've been a chore to storage capacity but it'll also limit sharing and editing options, so the excellent engineers at Nokia thought of Pureview, its down sampling high res images to 5mp pics while choosing only the best pixels out of the full res picture (as there lots of pixels noise pixels could be skipped while attaining the information filled pixel.
    This way a 5mp shot is a Pureview picture out of a 34/38mp picture that is full of noise and sometimes unwanted extra details.
    You need to understand that you were never meant to use the 34mp to take big pictures (its an added bonus) but you were meant to use that extra mega pixels to zoom on your subject afterwards or during a video.

    I hope this helped, look for Pureview whitepaper from Nokia it explains the technology FULLY.
    Nabkawe5 is right that the 34mp image was not supposed to be the image that the end user uses most of the time, but there are a few more details missing here. When you look at Nokia's 5MP image, you are seeing Nokia's carefully designed algorithm which averages pixels to produce the best possible image based on surrounding data.

    When you look at the 34MP image, unless you use an advanced image viewer, you are most likely looking at your image viewer's fast algorithm that fits the image to your screen by ignoring a number of pixels and rendering the fastest image it can. This means you're missing a lot of the data and quality in the image so that it can show you an image faster. These fast image viewers are, for the most part, not programmed with any algorithms to show you a high-quality image from those 34mp images.

    In addition, when set to JPG mode, you're limited to JPG compression. This is really where that blur and slight distortion comes from. If you take the picture in RAW mode, you will likely see a very sharp, but very noisy image. That sharpness and noise is usually blurred in the JPG's compression algorithms, creating an easier to use, but slightly lower quality image for convenience. This exists in the 5MP image as well, but Nokia's algorithms did their best to filter out the bad data so that when it was compressed to JPG, it only had good image data to compress. If there's only good data there, it's not getting mixed with much noise, and it will look much better. Nokia's thought process was to take as much data as possible and filter it. It's like statistics - if you want to make sure your data is accurate, you have to increase your sample size. So if you want a really good 5MP image, take a 41MP picture, then remove the outliers (the bad data) and take some averages of what's left.

    And as for RAW, that is really designed for advanced photo editors who know how to handle color management and various processing to remove noise, and white balance, and so many other image processing techniques that I know very little about. This gives you the fullest ability to recreate Nokia's algorithm on their own, or to create your own, hopefully improved, algorithm. But this requires knowledge, skill, and time. I have none of these.

    So TLDR:
    5MP images : Processed by Nokia's algorithm to create their idea of the best quality, sharable image.
    34MP JPG : Raw data from the camera compressed into a lossy JPG format, bypassing Nokia's algorithm (for the most part). Requires better image handling to print and scale down the image, but usable if you zoomed into the wrong area, or if you want larger prints that the 5MPs can give you.
    RAW DNG : Use for the best possible quality if you really know image processing and have the time to do the work to make the RAW data look good.
    02-03-2014 10:46 AM
  18. eortizr's Avatar
    THIS!

    The larger files are best viewed on a Retina Display or similar.

    If you view the larger file on a smaller screen it is downsampling at a terrible rate to show the photo. Flickr does a pretty good job of downsampling if you upload the larger files.
    Calling an HD Display 'Retina Display' is as ignorant as calling all Android Devices 'Droid'
    02-03-2014 11:05 AM
  19. Crasstoe's Avatar
    Calling an HD Display 'Retina Display' is as ignorant as calling all Android Devices 'Droid'
    Or it is using an example of a high resolution display in a forum post. Apples High Resolution Display is known as the Retina Display, which makes it a perfect example of a working product people are familiar with.

    Put your pitchfork down and go home.
    rQvsnaps likes this.
    02-04-2014 09:56 AM
  20. eortizr's Avatar
    Or it is using an example of a high resolution display in a forum post. Apples High Resolution Display is known as the Retina Display, which makes it a perfect example of a working product people are familiar with.

    Put your pitchfork down and go home.
    Retina Display is not even an HD standard. The iPhone 5/5s have a retina display but it is not an HD display by any standards
    02-05-2014 05:50 PM
  21. Crasstoe's Avatar
    Retina Display is not even an HD standard. The iPhone 5/5s have a retina display but it is not an HD display by any standards
    But it is a higher resolution display than those found on most typical smartphones. It is also found on iMacs and Macbooks with resolutions substantially higher than 1080p (your HD standard). You are clutching at straws, it was simply an example and in no way a statement to suggest that an iPhone has a HD standard screen. It's like saying Hoover instead of Vacuum, it is a word synonymous with high resolution (read, not HD) displays which would do better to show off the 1020's photos than a "regular" display.

    Yes a 1080p display on a phone will do a better job than a retina display ON A PHONE but is it really worth calling somebody ignorant? I didn't even say to view the photo on a phone! You could view on a iMac or MacBook and have more pixels on show than a 1080p display on any device.
    02-06-2014 04:41 AM
  22. sabri bouteba's Avatar
    Hi, I just read your post, for what it's worth, the 34 mp shots WILL NEVER EVER be of the same quality as those of 5 mp, at least as far as sharpness and noise reduction are concerned, for the simple reason that the latters are oversampled... the 5 mp pictures will always be sharper with less noise because each pixel of the shot comes from the combination of 6 or 7 pixels of the sensor. You may be interested in reading more about the topic : search for Lumia1020-whitepaper.pdf
    09-16-2014 08:28 PM
  23. rkarolak's Avatar
    The 5mp versions are oversampled and more processed than the 34/38mp ones. Part of that over sampling is removing noise, adjusting contrast and details, etc. When you use the bigger versions or resize to zoom (crop) in you loose a bit of that processing and refinement that's provided by oversampling.

    If you're shooting RAW, you'll also only get a lower-quality preview to view in the photos app. The RAW image and its preview are also completely unprocessed, leaving a more bland looking image out-of-camera, but much more flexibility in post-processing.

    The best of both worlds is probably 5 MP JPEG + RAW, but that is generally slower to process, resulting in slower shot-to-shot speeds.
    09-18-2014 10:47 AM
  24. John Christopoulos's Avatar
    So i am asking this!
    What if i shoot the same picture at both formats. One as a 38 mpx / 5 mpx image and one at raw DNG 38 mpx / 5 mpx mode. Which of the two 5 mpx images will be better? The one from the already compressed JPG or the one from the RAW? Are the same algorithms involved to the supersampling denoising cpmpression of the 5 mpx image? Who can answer that?
    01-23-2015 01:41 PM
  25. John Christopoulos's Avatar
    I think a 5 mp image out of RAW 38 mp that will occur will be way better compared to the 5 mp image out of the already processed JPG 38 mpx right? And i dont think the RAW file's preview is unprocessed. It goes theough thw Pureview algorithms too, just like the one from the Hires JPG 38 mp. Am i wrong?
    01-23-2015 01:45 PM
32 12

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