01-23-2015 08:27 AM
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  1. patrikmore's Avatar
    W10 by itself is not going to improve our phones. I want better firmware for better integration of software improvements. L1020 shouldn't be excluded as it is the only flagship remaining.
    John20212 and Skamath like this.
    01-13-2015 06:37 AM
  2. Ruined's Avatar
    We all understand that there are limitations and what not with the hardware of the various Lumia phones. So the 1020 owners cant have 4K recording, cant have living images, etc. I am sure the majority of them would agree to the fact that Living images is not what the 1020 users want. I don't think they would be upset if they don't have the extras with Cortana's passive listening or for that matter any other fancy stuff. They got "The Camera Phone" so they could take good pictures when they want and not wait for the loading, resuming and carrying on that happens when the perfect moment is gone :( Can you please find out if this is going to be fixed. You would be our only source to the root.
    Mods can you please get this to Daniel's attention in case there are too many threads to filter through.
    Cheers
    Skamath
    Bottom line 1020 hardware is not really up to snuff for a 41mp camera. The successor that uses Qualcomm 810 will be the device you want.
    01-13-2015 06:47 AM
  3. Donny James's Avatar
    Hi Laura
    I am aware that he doesn't work in MS and for that matter cant add features or designs.
    The question was can he find out? and if the Imaging guru give us the faster cam that we used to have at one stage. It is not a feature that I am after for the phone to support. On the contrary I wouldn't worry about Cortana or 4k or anything. I would like to know if the basic Lumia camera app would be improved to be snappy or not?

    Cheers
    Are you able to download Lumia Camera 5 on your 1020? I did on my 1520 (w/o Denim) and it still loads way faster. See link below. This would be interesting to know.

    Exclusive: This one weird trick will let you use Lumia Camera 5 on your Cyan PureView phone
    01-13-2015 08:30 AM
  4. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Here, if this doesn't put the op out of his/her misery then I don't know what will... ... unless *cough*
    We chat with Microsoft's imaging chief about Denim, Lumia 1020, and more #CES2015 | Windows Central
    01-13-2015 10:43 AM
  5. Yazen's Avatar
    The technologically it is also ancient in both the phone and camera worlds. It is completely unreasonable to expect perpetual upgrades for old hardware and it really doesn't matter how much you paid. This device was announced nearly 20 months ago and has been for sale for 18 months. It was also a niche product upon release and is even more so now. The sense of entitlement really is staggering at times.
    Most activated Lumias are running off the S4 platform. Rewriting Lumia Camera for S4 means having the new app on the 520, 620, 720, 820, 920, 1020, etc. Implementing Lumia Camera does require firmware development, however, these phones use a very similar system so it should not be an issue. (maybe if their code is poor, who knows.. )

    I have no sense of entitlement when it comes to Microsoft.
    01-13-2015 01:41 PM
  6. Yazen's Avatar
    Bottom line 1020 hardware is not really up to snuff for a 41mp camera. The successor that uses Qualcomm 810 will be the device you want.
    Lumia 830 is up to snuff. Lumia 1020 had faster hardware across the board. Problem?
    Microsoft is in bed with Qualcomm. The shift in SoC is very much like the WP7 > WP8 debacle.
    Surprised that people are not catching on.

    The reason why the Lumia 910 did not get WP8 was not because of some hardware limitation, they literally focused on Qualcomm's new S4 Platform in kernel development.

    Understandable, but a highly unethical contract... But Microsoft will never make this mistake again. They will make sure that you all think that you are getting the support they have claimed to extend ;))

    Microsoft has been phasing out S4 development right after the Lumia 925 was released.. Get ready for Windoze 10!


    EDIT: Hackers have gotten WP8 to boot on HD2.
    I understand Microsoft's strategy though
    patrikmore and John20212 like this.
    01-13-2015 01:55 PM
  7. colinkiama's Avatar
    Lumia 830 is up to snuff. Lumia 1020 had faster hardware across the board. Problem?
    Microsoft is in bed with Qualcomm. The shift in SoC is very much like the WP7 > WP8 debacle.
    Surprised that people are not catching on.

    The reason why the Lumia 910 did not get WP8 was not because of some hardware limitation, they literally focused on Qualcomm's new S4 Platform in kernel development.

    Understandable, but a highly unethical contract... But Microsoft will never make this mistake again. They will make sure that you all think that you are getting the support they have claimed to extend ;))

    Microsoft has been phasing out S4 development right after the Lumia 925 was released.. Get ready for Windoze 10!


    EDIT: Hackers have gotten WP8 to boot on HD2.
    I understand Microsoft's strategy though
    But does the HD2 perform well? Can games and complex apps run without lagging? Those are the million dollar questions.
    01-13-2015 02:42 PM
  8. Donny James's Avatar
    EDIT: Hackers have gotten WP8 to boot on HD2.
    I understand Microsoft's strategy though
    WP8 on HD2? That's gonna be a wonderful User experience.
    Ruined likes this.
    01-13-2015 03:23 PM
  9. anon(9057135)'s Avatar
    The 1020 is very old...
    01-13-2015 04:26 PM
  10. Ruined's Avatar
    Lumia 830 is up to snuff. Lumia 1020 had faster hardware across the board. Problem?
    Microsoft is in bed with Qualcomm. The shift in SoC is very much like the WP7 > WP8 debacle.
    Surprised that people are not catching on.

    The reason why the Lumia 910 did not get WP8 was not because of some hardware limitation, they literally focused on Qualcomm's new S4 Platform in kernel development.

    Understandable, but a highly unethical contract... But Microsoft will never make this mistake again. They will make sure that you all think that you are getting the support they have claimed to extend ;))

    Microsoft has been phasing out S4 development right after the Lumia 925 was released.. Get ready for Windoze 10!


    EDIT: Hackers have gotten WP8 to boot on HD2.
    I understand Microsoft's strategy though
    It is more than that.

    Here are Qualcomm specs for what each SoC natively supports as max megapixels for image processing:

    Snapdragon S4 Plus - 20mp (used by Lumia 1020/41mp)
    Snapdragon 400 - 13.5mp (used by Lumia 830/10mp)
    Snapdragon 800 - 21mp (used by Lumia Icon/1520/20mp)

    If you note, out of the listed phones only the 1020s megapixel count exceeds the SoCs native image processing capability and by quite a bit. So updating it and making the experience as fast as an 830/icon/1520 would be very difficult as it seems it was a "hack" of sorts to implement 41mp on the s4 plus in the first place.

    However, Snapdragon 810 supports up to 55mp. This can be used for.a future successor to the 1020 with better performance.
    aximtreo likes this.
    01-13-2015 04:27 PM
  11. pwrof3's Avatar
    Only in today's latest and greatest obsessed world would a two year old phone be deemed 'ancient'
    wpn00b, Yazen, msirapian and 2 others like this.
    01-13-2015 04:39 PM
  12. Broomcorn's Avatar
    W10 will be interesting to see what changes in the camera of the 1020. I'm not really expecting major camera changes, however...
    Yazen likes this.
    01-13-2015 05:28 PM
  13. peachy001's Avatar
    Personally, I don't need more megapixels, just great images. They should concentrate on making the imaging spot on. Quick shooting, great video capabilities. Not eager for any 3d gestures or fingerprint sensors, just want a stellar photo experience, that can be used straight from the pocket by an amateur. With some top end features available for the more adept.
    Skamath likes this.
    01-13-2015 05:39 PM
  14. DalekSnare's Avatar
    The 1020 is a lost cause, since the hardware limits what it can do. The 920's processor was old when it came out and the 1020 came out almost a year later with the same thing. You can't expect a phone that has an old processor when it comes out to last as long as a phone that is actually running modern hardware. Now that the 1020's been out for almost a year and a half, the processor is super old. Hopefully future phones will come out on modern hardware so this doesn't happen again. In other words, the Lumia 1030 had better not just be the same processor as the 930. It should have whatever the Galaxy S6 will. Specs aren't everything, but shipping new phones with two-year-old processors (2013's Galaxy S4 had the Snapdragon 800) means we'll have short-lived flagships like the 1020. We used to say WP didn't need fast processors, but hardware-dependent features like denim camera and hey cortana, as well as the UI slowdown on S4 processor phones, have shown that to not be true.
    01-13-2015 07:19 PM
  15. Yazen's Avatar
    But does the HD2 perform well? Can games and complex apps run without lagging? Those are the million dollar questions.
    Missing the point, Microsoft claimed that it was impossible for older devices to run WP8.
    techiez and John20212 like this.
    01-13-2015 08:21 PM
  16. Yazen's Avatar
    It is more than that.

    Here are Qualcomm specs for what each SoC natively supports as max megapixels for image processing:

    Snapdragon S4 Plus - 20mp (used by Lumia 1020/41mp)
    Snapdragon 400 - 13.5mp (used by Lumia 830/10mp)
    Snapdragon 800 - 21mp (used by Lumia Icon/1520/20mp)

    If you note, out of the listed phones only the 1020s megapixel count exceeds the SoCs native image processing capability and by quite a bit. So updating it and making the experience as fast as an 830/icon/1520 would be very difficult as it seems it was a "hack" of sorts to implement 41mp on the s4 plus in the first place.

    However, Snapdragon 810 supports up to 55mp. This can be used for.a future successor to the 1020 with better performance.
    That is the reference specifications. Kind really a hack, but Nokia worked with Qualcomm on the imaging processor.

    Problem with Qualcomm is that their implementation sucks, discrete imaging processor like the 808 would be the way to go. That is not likely with future models...

    1030 could benefit from a 810 CPU if they are going with Qualcomm, and they will be going with Qualcomm.... So inefficient...

    However, the camera app speed and little bells like HDR in 5MP are easily achievable as we are getting Windows 10..

    OPs concern was with white balancing as well, and it was very good until Amber update.

    I'm really hoping their code is poorly written and documented....
    techiez likes this.
    01-13-2015 08:33 PM
  17. techiez's Avatar
    Bottom line 1020 hardware is not really up to snuff for a 41mp camera. The successor that uses Qualcomm 810 will be the device you want.
    You have no idea wht you are talking abt, faster app boot has nothing to do with 41MP, living images & HDR could be brought to 1020, if proshot can do it then y not lumia camera?, 1020 doesnt have these features as MS is lazy and incompetant by choice, thats it!
    John20212 likes this.
    01-13-2015 08:55 PM
  18. Ruined's Avatar
    You have no idea wht you are talking abt, faster app boot has nothing to do with 41MP, living images & HDR could be brought to 1020, if proshot can do it then y not lumia camera?, 1020 doesnt have these features as MS is lazy and incompetant by choice, thats it!
    Nope i have a good idea what I am talking about. ARM SoCs are not like an Intel x86 CPU. They have much stricter limitations and generally less power with some things simply being impossible for the hardware.

    The Lumia 1020 exceeds the specifications of the s4 Plus image processing by double. That means there was likely some highly custom hacks to make 41mp happen. Thus, unlike every other windows phone coding for a new or updated app becomes very, very difficult compared to any other Lumia and performance will likely always be worse than cameras which fall within the soc spec even with a fully optimized app.

    The 1020 did things which normally would not be possible with the s4 plus. But as a consequence it will be difficult to maintain and update the camera app going forward due to all the custom coding involved. The real solution is a successor based on the 805/810 SoC.
    Last edited by Ruined; 01-14-2015 at 06:46 AM.
    Yazen likes this.
    01-14-2015 06:34 AM
  19. Yazen's Avatar
    Nope i have a good idea what I am talking about. ARM SoCs are not like an Intel x86 CPU. They have much stricter limitations and generally less power with some things simply being impossible for the hardware.

    The Lumia 1020 exceeds the specifications of the s4 Plus image processing by double. That means there was likely some highly custom hacks to make 41mp happen. Thus, unlike every other windows phone coding for a new or updated app becomes very, very difficult compared to any other Lumia and performance will likely always be worse than cameras which fall within the soc spec even with a fully optimized app.

    The 1020 did things which normally would not be possible with the s4 plus. But as a consequence it will be difficult to maintain and update the camera app going forward due to all the custom coding involved. The real solution is a successor based on the 805/810 SoC.
    Yep, processor on the S4 is the bottleneck. The imaging processing hardware on the 1020 is slightly different from reference. Regardless, there needs to be software 'hacks' as Ruined has already mentioned.

    Processing is always going to be slow on the 1020 when it is processing 41MP.
    01-14-2015 10:11 AM
  20. Yazen's Avatar
    However slow app loading is Nokia/Microsoft's fault. Not like they have to rewrite the entire image processing.
    Object Oriented FTW. Fix our app Microsoft >.>
    01-14-2015 10:13 AM
  21. John20212's Avatar
    The technologically it is also ancient in both the phone and camera worlds. It is completely unreasonable to expect perpetual upgrades for old hardware and it really doesn't matter how much you paid. This device was announced nearly 20 months ago and has been for sale for 18 months. It was also a niche product upon release and is even more so now. The sense of entitlement really is staggering at times.
    Yes its definitely unreasonable to expect firmware updates for a one and a half year old phone that is still the best camera phone out there and still a Nokia/MS flagship. /s /facepalm

    The only reason why the Lumia 1020 is not getting some of the new Demin features such as HDR is because Microsoft is lazy to implement it and they decided its easier to just ditch the existing owners of the 1020. Same as they did when the switch from WP7 > WP8 took place; it was not impossible to make devices like the Lumia 900 to work with WP8, MS just decided it was not worth their time, came up with a BS excuse, and everyone just ate it up like fools.
    If WP8 can run on crap hardware like the 520 it sure as hell could on the 900 with a bit of work.
    Yazen likes this.
    01-16-2015 03:32 PM
  22. Ruined's Avatar
    Yes its definitely unreasonable to expect firmware updates for a one and a half year old phone that is still the best camera phone out there and still a Nokia/MS flagship. /s /facepalm

    The only reason why the Lumia 1020 is not getting some of the new Demin features such as HDR is because Microsoft is lazy to implement it and they decided its easier to just ditch the existing owners of the 1020. Same as they did when the switch from WP7 > WP8 took place; it was not impossible to make devices like the Lumia 900 to work with WP8, MS just decided it was not worth their time, came up with a BS excuse, and everyone just ate it up like fools.
    If WP8 can run on crap hardware like the 520 it sure as hell could on the 900 with a bit of work.
    Please link your proof that lack of HDR and other Denim features is due to being lazy.

    Per qualcomm the s4 plus is only specced to handle 20mp, not 41mp that the Lumia 1020 has. How do you know that the resources exist for more features after whatever custom hacks were put in place to attain 41mp on an arm soc that only supports 20mp image processing?
    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn...ocessors/s4-s1
    aximtreo and a5cent like this.
    01-16-2015 03:45 PM
  23. aximtreo's Avatar
    Most activated Lumias are running off the S4 platform. Rewriting Lumia Camera for S4 means having the new app on the 520, 620, 720, 820, 920, 1020, etc. Implementing Lumia Camera does require firmware development, however, these phones use a very similar system so it should not be an issue. (maybe if their code is poor, who knows.. )

    I have no sense of entitlement when it comes to Microsoft.
    Nor should you expect to have a sense of entitlement from MS or any other company when extending to hardware that is two generations old. I don't think anyone here that has never written software code has any idea how difficult a task this is.

    MS code writers are busy writing for the next generation of hardware and the next and so on. Every piece of hardware developed today is already obsolete before it's even brought to market. That's how fast technology is changing

    Enjoy what you have or move on to the newer stuff around the corner.
    a5cent likes this.
    01-16-2015 03:57 PM
  24. matt john2's Avatar
    Lets put it this way, the Lumia 1020 is slow(dont get me wrong, I do own 1020 so I know) so there's no reason for the new camera feature to roll of to Lumia 1020 devices cause it'll make it slower cause it doesn't have much hardware spec to run those features smoothly. And to be honest as a photographer myself I find those new camera features are just plain gimmick just to keep up with others. So what if it has 4k, 1080 is enough though since it can capture an impressive amount of details. The hdr option can also be done with other apps and software. The living images is only thing I am jealous at. So the solution here is buy a new WP
    01-16-2015 04:11 PM
  25. hysonmb's Avatar
    We had Living Images for a short time on the 1020. I actually prefer it without them. It would be nice if we had an option to enable or disable the feature though. Even if there's a caveat saying "known issues with this feature on our device, use at your own risk".
    John20212 likes this.
    01-16-2015 04:28 PM
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