1. dmmontal's Avatar
    After installing Denim on my AT&T Lumia 1520, I've noticed that the camera app now creates several types of extra files when taking photos and videos. These extra files take up valuable space and are only visible when browsing with the phone's Files app. To be clear, this is not related to the Living Images feature, which I have disabled.

    1) When taking photos with Rich Capture enabled, an additional file is produced with the extension .NAR. I'm seeing these files average between 9-16MB - far larger than the photos themselves.

    2) When taking any video (either standard videos or using Moment Capture), there is now a .TNL file created for every video. This one only seems to average 150-250KB, but still, this is not something that was ever present previously.

    Does anyone have any insight into what the function of these files are? The .TNL files are a minor annoyance, but the .NAR files are much more problematic. The idea that I'm losing on average a dozen MB of space every time I take a Rich Capture photo (not counting the space taken up by the photos themselves) seems a bit crazy.
    03-02-2015 10:13 AM
  2. anon8959613's Avatar
    1. The .nar file is the file created by cam. When a user selects the Best Shot, Rich capture etc., then it saves that shot in the Camera roll as a jpeg file.
    Try copying
    .nar to your desktop, change the extension to .zip and see if you can open it.

    Info source #1.
    http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/winphone/forum/wp8-wpcamera/unable-to-opensee-images-on-pc-that-are-captured/d504f8e6-9552-4a23-88e7-539bde651ef9


    2. https://windowsphone.uservoice.com/f...y-nokia-camera
    03-02-2015 10:19 AM
  3. Harrie-S's Avatar
    1 The extra file you get with Rich Capture is because you use Rich Capture. The picture you take with Rich capture can be edited and for this the NAR file is needed.
    If you do not want to edit a picture you should not use Rich Capture.

    2 The '.mp4.tnl' one is a JPG of the final frame. So a kind of small picture.
    03-02-2015 10:23 AM
  4. dmmontal's Avatar
    Thanks for the help.

    Ok so the .NAR file is what allows you to edit the Rich Capture image after being taken. Once I have edited the image and am happy with the result, am I right in thinking it's then safe to delete the .NAR? I assume this would mean you could not edit it again.

    I guess I'm unclear on why the .TNL file exists. I initially thought it might have something to do with a new feature, such as the editing you can do with Moment Capture, but it appears for any and all videos now. Is there any reason somebody would want to keep these files? In previous OS versions we did not have these.
    03-02-2015 10:35 AM
  5. anon8959613's Avatar
    Ok so the .NAR file is what allows you to edit the Rich Capture image after being taken. Once I have edited the image and am happy with the result, am I right in thinking it's then safe to delete the .NAR? I assume this would mean you could not edit it again.
    Yes its like a backup file if you wanna revert the image to its original state.

    I guess I'm unclear on why the .TNL file exists. I initially thought it might have something to do with a new feature, such as the editing you can do with Moment Capture, but it appears for any and all videos now. Is there any reason somebody would want to keep these files? In previous OS versions we did not have these.
    Pictures you take will be saved as jpeg file but its corresponding living images (new feature) file will be a file such as "filename.mp4.tnl

    as for why it exists, when you browse the photos, this small video clip shows up. hence the name living images.

    You can either change the extention to .mp4 upon which you will get a small video file or you can use that same video to convert into a GIF
    03-02-2015 10:40 AM
  6. dmmontal's Avatar
    Appreciate the response, but I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not talking about Living Images - I noted in my original post that I have this feature disabled.

    I'm aware that when you shoot a photo with Living Images enabled, it captures a brief video that plays back when you browse to that photo in your camera roll. I'm also aware that as part of this process, the camera creates two additional files - a .TNL and .THM file.

    What I'm talking about here is different. I'm saying that when you shoot an actual VIDEO, the phone now creates a .TNL file. The camera app never used to do this. I see no difference between shooting a standard video pre and post Denim - so I'm trying to understand why before Denim we would only cleanly output a single video file, and now post-Denim we get the video file plus a seemingly extraneous .TNL file. There is no "Living Images-like" feature here for video that to me explains the existence of these files post-Denim.
    anon8959613 likes this.
    03-02-2015 11:07 AM
  7. anon8959613's Avatar
    I'm saying that when you shoot an actual VIDEO, the phone now creates a .TNL file. The camera app never used to do this. I see no difference between shooting a standard video pre and post Denim - so I'm trying to understand why before Denim we would only cleanly output a single video file, and now post-Denim we get the video file plus a seemingly extraneous .TNL file. There is no "Living Images-like" feature here for video that to me explains the existence of these files post-Denim.
    The '.mp4.tnl' is a 1280x720 JPG of the final frame. Its like a thumbnail image.

    Source
    http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/flow/item/19844_Nokia_Camera_Beta_update_and_t.php
    03-02-2015 11:30 AM
  8. dmmontal's Avatar
    The '.mp4.tnl' is a 1280x720 JPG of the final frame. Its like a thumbnail image.

    Source
    http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/flow/item/19844_Nokia_Camera_Beta_update_and_t.php
    I understand but I guess I'm just unclear as to what the point is. It literally serves no purpose on the phone - the existence of the thumbnail image (or lack thereof if you delete it) doesn't impact anything in the camera roll or photos app. All it does is take up additional space and clutter your list in the Files app.
    03-02-2015 11:38 AM
  9. anon8959613's Avatar
    I understand but I guess I'm just unclear as to what the point is. It literally serves no purpose on the phone - the existence of the thumbnail image (or lack thereof if you delete it) doesn't impact anything in the camera roll or photos app. All it does is take up additional space and clutter your list in the Files app.
    What if it does serve a purpose unknown to all of us ?.
    The file is visible in your file explorer and you can see that it takes up space. That bothers you.

    What if these files were hidden and locked away from us just like the system files? Would you be bothered then ?

    What if you could see all the system files? and one day you find some files look irrelevant and they are taking space in your phone, would you delete them ?
    03-02-2015 12:03 PM
  10. dmmontal's Avatar
    What if it does serve a purpose unknown to all of us ?.
    It very well might. That's why I asked, and what I'm continuing to try to understand.

    The file is visible in your file explorer and you can see that it takes up space. That bothers you.
    The space it takes up does not bother me much (I noted in my OP that the space was quite small). What bothers me is the clutter created when I have a seemingly extraneous file created every time I shoot a video (which for me is often). It makes sorting and managing the files much more of a chore when using the Files app.

    What if these files were hidden and locked away from us just like the system files? Would you be bothered then ?

    What if you could see all the system files? and one day you find some files look irrelevant and they are taking space in your phone, would you delete them ?
    I would be much happier if the space the file took up was simply rolled into the video itself, or hidden away as a system file. On a mobile device, my feeling is that any file that the user can access, move, modify, delete, etc. should serve some purpose to the user. If these files are being generated with every single video I take from now on, but there is no discernible difference whether I delete them or not, then what is the point? For the average user, it's only an extra amount of clutter that must now be managed.
    03-02-2015 12:15 PM
  11. anon8959613's Avatar
    I understand but I guess I'm just unclear as to what the point is. It literally serves no purpose on the phone - the existence of the thumbnail image (or lack thereof if you delete it)
    The thumbnails do need to exist. even if you delete it it will be automatically regenerated.
    Thumbnails are for the xbox video app and the photos app. (the small preview you get)
    You wouldn't be able to identify what file you want to share/see if you don't have a thumbnail of it in the photos app.
    You would have to open them one by one to see what photo/video it is.
    It will all appear greyed out.
    I'm assuming why its visible is that it needs to be accessed quickly and hence stored in the same location.

    if it were to be hidden and all under a single folder ( like in a pc folder thumbnails ) then it would take time loading the photos app.
    03-02-2015 12:21 PM
  12. dmmontal's Avatar
    The thumbnail does need to exist. even if you delete it it will be automatically regenerated.
    Thumbnails are for the xbox video app and the photos app.
    You wouldn't be able to identify what file you want to share/see if you dont have a thumbnail of it in the photos app.

    I merely called the .TNL file a "thumbnail" because that's what you referred to it as being 'like' in your previous post. It is clearly not the thumbnail image that photos and videos in WP use because, again, nothing changes if you delete it. You do not stop seeing thumbnails when browsing Xbox Video or your Photos app if you delete the .TNL file. And it is not regenerated after deleting it.
    03-02-2015 12:23 PM
  13. anon8959613's Avatar
    If you are shooting 5MP jpg + 16MP jpg (16;9) or 5MP jpg + 19MP jpg (4:3) then each and every pic has 4 files, not 2.

    WP_YYYYMMDD_HH_MM_SS_and one of 4 extensions. This breaks down to WP for Windows Phone/The Year in 4 digits/The Month in 4 digits/The Date in 4 digits (or date and then month under certain Region formats)/The Hour in 2 digits/The Minutes in 2 digits/and The Seconds in 2 digits.

    So if I take a picture right now I get WP_20141007_10_30_27, the local date and time I'm writing this...

    One pic makes the following files:
    • WP_20141007_10_30_27_Pro.jpg
    • WP_20141007_10_30_27_Pro.mp4.thm
    • WP_20141007_10_30_27_Pro.mp4.tnl
    • WP_20141007_10_30_27_Pro_highres.jpg


    ​The 5MP is the first file and the 16(19)MP is the fourth, obviously. The second ending .thm is the animated Living Image. The third file is the one I want to ask about. The file that ends in .tnl is the thumbnail data for the package...

    Are you stripping out the .tnl file from the Camera Roll???

    Maybe you are/Maybe you are not... I'm pretty sure the .tnl points to the .thm file by default and then once the Living Image rolls out it puts up the 5MP by default.

    At a guess if you want just the 16(19)MP pic to show you need to edit the .tnl file.

    Thread http://forums.windowscentral.com/ask...mia-930-a.html

    Did you even try to search before posting the question here ? :D
    03-02-2015 12:39 PM
  14. dmmontal's Avatar
    Did you even try to search before posting the question here ? :D
    Yes I did actually, and saw no threads wherein the title made it clear that this topic was being discussed. There's really no need to be condescending.

    That thread does not make it clear as to what the purpose of the .TNL file is. They're simply explained as being thumbnails. However, to my earlier point - the .TNL files can be deleted without any discernible change. You do not suddenly stop seeing thumbnails of your photos and videos if the .TNL files are deleted. Moreover, the .TNL files are not re-created if you delete them. This all makes me wonder why they are present at all, especially as they were not present at all prior to the introduction of Denim - I'm simply trying to understand what the purpose (if there is one) of these files being made accessible is with this update. If nobody knows, that's fine, but I think this is a legitimate question.
    03-02-2015 01:08 PM
  15. anon8959613's Avatar
    Yes I did actually, and saw no threads wherein the title made it clear that this topic was being discussed. There's really no need to be condescending .
    Sorry but there was a smiley on my post :P :P
    03-02-2015 01:23 PM
  16. nCogNeato's Avatar
    ... I'm simply trying to understand what the purpose (if there is one) of these files being made accessible is with this update. If nobody knows, that's fine, but I think this is a legitimate question.
    Still a legitimate question, and worthy of an explanation I cannot find. If anyone out there knows, please let me know. Thanks.
    09-18-2015 11:17 PM

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