08-28-2015 11:49 AM
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  1. Ed Boland's Avatar
    I think once the 950/950XL are released, and all the new features and capabilities (Iris scanner/windows hello/continuum/etc) of these new "Windows 10 phones" are revealed to the general population (Let's face it, only us enthusiasts on sites like this, know about these upcoming features and capabilities), most current 1520 owners will forget all about whether or not their phones will get the Windows 10 upgrade.

    I think Windows Phone users fall into 2 groups:

    A. Regular non-tech enthusiast users (like my mother for example). She would have purchased the 1520 because it has a large easy to read screen. It works well, recieves calls, texts, and has an Internet browser, email etc etc. and would happily continue to use it with the software that came with it - Windows Phone 8.1 and would never cross her mind to enroll as an "insider" anything, and never would attempt to install a preview OS as she wouldn't even know about it... Much less go looking for it. She definitely wouldn't care if her phone was eligible to receive the Windows 10 upgrade unless it popped up on her screen, prompting her to "Install Windows 10 now". Otherwise, she'd never know about it, and never be the wiser. Windows Phone 8.1 will continue to work just fine.

    Or

    B. Tech enthusiasts (like us here on the site) that must always have he latest and greatest. Those who bought the 1520 most likely have their sites set on the 950XL and are ready to purchase it as soon as it's released. They already have the Insider Preview installed on their 1520 and know of the hardware limitations versus the new features and capabilities of Windows 10 mobile. They know their 1520 is two years old and have been waiting for the new "Flagship" phones patiently. When these new phones are released, they will happily retire their outdated hardware, upgrade to the latest and greatest, and never look back.

    That's it! There is no group C, if you're trying to fit into a group C (those that want to complain about why their 1520 won't get the windows 10 upgrade) you must re-examine whether you're really a group A, or group B. Group B knows that the average life span (or upgrade cycle) of a smartphone is never more than two years. If you're a group B user and have a phone that's two years old, you know you're well overdue for an upgrade... So bite the bullet and upgrade! If not, join group A and move on...
    Last edited by Ed Boland; 08-27-2015 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Typos!
    tgp and RumoredNow like this.
    08-27-2015 10:22 AM
  2. Przemyslaw Pacocha's Avatar
    Do any of you have information about Lumia 1550?
    08-27-2015 10:25 AM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    I think Windows Phone users fall into 2 groups:
    I agree. And it's not just Windows Phone users; the same principal could apply to all smartphone users. The vast majority couldn't care less about updates, or are even aware of them. If their phone does what they need, they're happy. In fact, updates can be a nuisance, and from what I've seen they're often ignored when they are available. Updates take time, and they mess things up (meaning "change things").

    I think that we as tech enthusiasts sometimes overestimate the importance of updates.
    Ed Boland likes this.
    08-27-2015 10:30 AM
  4. Hieu Nguyen6's Avatar
    I hope this not happen. I'm pleased with wp8.1 but i think win 10 so great for experiencing.
    08-27-2015 12:12 PM
  5. Blacklac's Avatar
    Do any of you have information about Lumia 1550?
    You mean the 950XL? ;)

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    RumoredNow and Ed Boland like this.
    08-27-2015 12:29 PM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    There is no group C...
    Ed, I like your post. But I have to disagree a bit.

    There's a group C/D/E/Etc.

    There are a lot of user scenarios out there. I won't bore you with mine. I support the broad strokes of what you said. It just isn't that On or Off.
    a5cent, Ed Boland and Tom Snyder like this.
    08-27-2015 12:39 PM
  7. Ed Boland's Avatar
    Ed, I like your post. But I have to disagree a bit.

    There's a group C/D/E/Etc.

    There are a lot of user scenarios out there. I won't bore you with mine. I support the broad strokes of what you said. It just isn't that On or Off.
    Well, maybe there is a group C. In fact, of course there is, but generally I've found that those groups are just wasting their time. If Microsoft (or insert AT&T or your favorite carrier here) decided that the 1520 was never going to recieve the "official" upgrade, then it's just not going to happen. No amount of "user-voicing" or complaining is going to change anything. Look at the 830 users and their missing Denim issue - it's a done deal. I guess it could be acceptable to have a group C for users to vent, but I wouldn't expect any of it to change anything. To me, it seems like a recipe for disappointment.

    I tried to be a "group C" user once, with my gaming desktop's video card. It all started when Call of Duty Ghosts came out, and I realized after purchasing the game for $60, that my top of the line at one time, $600 video card (the GeForce GTX295) couldn't run it, as the game required DirectX 11 hardware. My card was DirectX 10 only. No amount of complaining, or venting to the game's developers ever allowed me to run that game on that card. Couldn't they just release a patch, where I could run the game in "DX10 mode" without all the DX11 features? Nope! I needed a hardware upgrade, and deep down inside I knew it.

    Sure, the 1520 runs the Windows 10 mobile Insider Preview builds just fine. Most of us here have tried it, and I'm still running it myself. But I know some new features aren't going to supported. Microsoft came right out and said "New hardware will be required" for these new features (continuum/Windows Hello/etc) and I believe that was the writing on the wall. I knew right then never to expect the "official" Windows 10 upgrade on my 1520. Why would they? They're going to be pushing the new hardware. Nobody would buy the new 950/950XL if their existing 1520s and 930s can do the same things. Maybe after the new phones come out, and all the dust settles, and sales of the new phones slow down, only then will they maybe release an official update for the older phones. It wouldn't be the first time, but by then, I'll have moved on to new hardware myself.

    But yeah, I suppose I'll agree that there's other groups, or types of users. (C, D, E, etc) But they're all grey areas. The ones that still have their WP7.8 phones that feel "burned", or the Windows RT users with their Surface 2s that keep complaining that they should get Windows 10 too. It must be a miserable life, all that posting and complaining that never goes anywhere.

    Software will always be capable of persuading people to upgrade their hardware. But hardware, I've found, always has a limit of how far someone can upgrade their software.
    RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    08-27-2015 02:03 PM
  8. chuckdaly's Avatar
    If you have been with using Windows Phone long enough, you will remember that when there are rumors of a device being left out of an update, that device gets left out. There has always been a wait and see article on this site, but then once reality sets in, they move on and put a spin on things. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Gabe and his crew discussed the ramifications of not putting the 1020 and 1520 on the list, so if its not there, its not a mistake. I will be replacing my 1020 and 1520 with new phones this fall ( Haven't decided which phones yet), so it doesn't really affect me. The windows insider program is a crappy band aid, as you get not support from the manufacturer, or carrier when using it.
    08-27-2015 05:44 PM
  9. memo926's Avatar
    juste suscribe to Windows incidir and you get Windows 10 for 1520 phone
    08-27-2015 07:04 PM
  10. Ed Boland's Avatar
    I think maybe what I'm trying to say is, in a perfect world, there should only be these two types of users, A and B. At least Microsoft, Apple, Google, and all the carriers would like it if there were; Complacent users. But no, there will always be the group C and others, who will fight for what they feel they're entitled to, I suppose.

    I know I'm not the least bit worried about my1520 getting the "official" Windows 10 mobile update myself. I'm due for an upgrade and will be getting a new phone this fall anyway.

    Pardon my bloated posts in this thread today.. just thinking out loud, and it's mostly a result of not enough sleep and waaay too much coffee!
    RumoredNow and a5cent like this.
    08-27-2015 07:51 PM
  11. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    Apple's update policy is very simple and consistent. They update 3 year old devices, but not 4 year old devices. For example, in 2014 when iOS 8 was released, the iPhone 6/6+ (new model), 5s, 5, and 4s (released in 2011) received the update. The iPhone 4 did not get iOS 8, but it had gotten iOS 7 the previous year.

    I haven't heard officially, but I guarantee you that the 4s will not get iOS 9, but the iPhone 5 (released in 2012) and later will. Their devices also receive the more minor updates during the year, even in the 4th year. Support stops at the time of the major version update at the 4 year point.

    In a nutshell, Apple updates devices up to the 4 year point, at which time no smartphone is very viable anyway. Apple is the model that every OS provider/manufacturer/carrier should follow. It might not be perfect, but it is the closest to perfect we've ever seen.
    I never said they didn't update phones longer than other manufacturers. IN FACT, I said the exact opposite, my friend. My point, it's not infinite, and Apple is still only releasing a small handful of devices. Microsoft is trying to update WAY more than just a handful, and it's far more of a struggle.
    RumoredNow and tgp like this.
    08-28-2015 06:48 AM
  12. parinkc's Avatar
    Guys, I understand the fact that MS has decided not to release W10M for phones more than 2 yrs older, there will be no support from the manufacturer or carrier. But that doesn't seem the case with W10 (desktop OS) as the same has been released for PC/Laptops more than 2 yrs older and majority of them are out of manufacturer warranty since long time. Then why not they show the same respect for Lumias?
    Some might argue about the evolution of hardware in phone vs. that in PCs/Laptops. But hey, you are forgetting that W10M does work through the Insider program, then rather why not release it via an official update as it does seem to support those phones?
    WP users here aren't crying for the fact that W10M might not work properly with their outdated hardware, but rather feeling left out. And hey..... the old phones (>2 yrs) are already out of their warranty periods, right? Then what's bothering MS for not officially releasing an official OS update to all old phones? Are they trying to force people to buy new phones when the people are already happy/satisfied with the way their current phones (read 1020, 1520, etc.) work and don't wanna invest in a new hardware? That's sad :(
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    08-28-2015 06:50 AM
  13. Blacklac's Avatar
    I would be utterly shocked if any US carriers even pushed W10 to older devices, unless MS forced their hand somehow.

    Besides the X40 series, maybe.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-28-2015 07:18 AM
  14. charlatan1978's Avatar
    I understand the fact that MS has decided not to release W10M for phones more than 2 yrs older
    That's not correct.
    If you read the whole thread then certain phones are just not on the list to get W10M in the first wave.
    At the moment they may still get it in a 2nd wave of updates, etc. (of course they may not).
    But there is no statement to say certain phones won't get W10M, other than phones with 4GB of storage.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-28-2015 07:30 AM
  15. Diego Ceccacci's Avatar
    Guys, I understand the fact that MS has decided not to release W10M for phones more than 2 yrs older, there will be no support from the manufacturer or carrier. But that doesn't seem the case with W10 (desktop OS) as the same has been released for PC/Laptops more than 2 yrs older and majority of them are out of manufacturer warranty since long time. Then why not they show the same respect for Lumias?
    Some might argue about the evolution of hardware in phone vs. that in PCs/Laptops. But hey, you are forgetting that W10M does work through the Insider program, then rather why not release it via an official update as it does seem to support those phones?
    WP users here aren't crying for the fact that W10M might not work properly with their outdated hardware, but rather feeling left out. And hey..... the old phones (>2 yrs) are already out of their warranty periods, right? Then what's bothering MS for not officially releasing an official OS update to all old phones? Are they trying to force people to buy new phones when the people are already happy/satisfied with the way their current phones (read 1020, 1520, etc.) work and don't wanna invest in a new hardware? That's sad :(
    The fact is that they said that they would have updated EVERY wp8 existing.
    For that reason i bought my lumia 1520 5 months ago, because i was sure id get w10 since they sais that.
    Now i feel abbandoned from MS because basically they lied to us. Thats it. Its irrelevant that the phone is 2 yrears old, they stated something that are not gonna happen, thats the real problem.
    Tom Snyder, Madeye234 and parinkc like this.
    08-28-2015 07:38 AM
  16. charlatan1978's Avatar
    The fact is that they said that they would have updated EVERY wp8 existing.
    For that reason i bought my lumia 1520 5 months ago, because i was sure id get w10 since they sais that.
    Now i feel abbandoned from MS because basically they lied to us. Thats it. Its irrelevant that the phone is 2 yrears old, they stated something that are not gonna happen, thats the real problem.
    They still may update EVERY wp8 (apart from the 4GB ones).
    It's just certain phones, including the 1520 are not in the first list of phones to receive W10M.
    Also all wp8 (except 4GB phones) will get W10M with the Insider programme, so they haven't lied.
    a5cent likes this.
    08-28-2015 08:06 AM
  17. tgp's Avatar
    I never said they didn't update phones longer than other manufacturers. IN FACT, I said the exact opposite, my friend. My point, it's not infinite, and Apple is still only releasing a small handful of devices. Microsoft is trying to update WAY more than just a handful, and it's far more of a struggle.
    Yes you're correct. You did say that Apple doesn't update forever, which is correct. I do not think it is reasonable to expect any company to do so.

    You are more than likely incorrect in saying that the iPhone 5 will not get iOS 9. Apple's update procedure is very predictable. Of course, we do not know for sure until updated devices are announced, but they have historically updated 3 year old devices but dropped 4 year old devices. The iPhone 5 will almost certainly get iOS 9 this year, but not iOS 10 next year. There is really no guessing to be done here!

    I wish that everyone would emulate Apple's update policy. However, as you pointed out Apple's lineup is relatively simple, with few devices. I do not know how many different devices WP is running on, but a year ago TNW News reported that Android was running on 18,796 distinct devices. That is an updating nightmare if ever there was one!
    08-28-2015 08:14 AM
  18. tale 85's Avatar
    Well the article kinda sucks(no offence).It speaks about carriers and stuff that dont want to update your phone but doesnt say anything about unlocked devices that take updates straight from microsoft instead if you want windows 10 you need to use their beta testing program and stack in a whirlwind of "i dont know if thats gonna work on your phone but will see" accepting every single testing policy they have about sending all your info and every move back to them so they can "make it better".So what you really got is a universal program that works almost on every lumia device but it never gonna be optimized for your cellphones hardware.
    As far as I know, the last insider build before RTM will be the RTM. Isn't that the way the PC roll out went. Each build gets better and faster. Wait a few weeks and jump into the program. You might even get to make suggestions about things you want to improve. Windows 10 is going to be an ongoing "work in progress" if you wait for the final product you'll be waiting a long, long time
    08-28-2015 08:23 AM
  19. Bobvfr's Avatar
    The fact is that they said that they would have updated EVERY wp8 existing.
    For that reason i bought my lumia 1520 5 months ago, because i was sure id get w10 since they sais that.
    Now i feel abbandoned from MS because basically they lied to us. Thats it. Its irrelevant that the phone is 2 yrears old, they stated something that are not gonna happen, thats the real problem.
    No they didn't lie, they said all Lumia's could be updated, they didn't say how, and for 1520 users at the moment it looks like by insider preview, but that isn't to say a couple of other things can happen, 1 they update the list to include 1520's and others, 2 they make a big "Update your phone here" button when the RMT version is ready, but to be honest my 1520 is running fine on Windows 10 10512 build.

    So the only thing that will stop your 1520 getting Windows 10 will be you, if you choose to not do the upgrade.

    Microsoft can't make carriers do this update, they can ask them nicely, they can try bribing them, then can do all the work, but if the carriers basically say it's not worth it for them, then all they can do is provide a "Do it yourself" button.

    And to another poster above, MS doing this are basically allowing me, who would be a prime target to upgrade to a 950 or 950XL the opportunity to keep my 1520 and pennies in my pocket.
    Tom Snyder likes this.
    08-28-2015 08:23 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    The fact is that they said that they would have updated EVERY wp8 existing.
    I'm skeptical about this claim too. It would be helpful if you could backup your claims with some source so we're all on the same page.

    AFAIK MS never said every device would be updated. AFAIK the closest we have to that is a tweet on the Lumia channel from some anonymous employee:

    It's a terribly bad tweet that should never have been made. I'm not aware of anything else that comes this close to seemingly promise something which MS simply has no control over, and therefor can't promise. Still, planning to do something is far from promising/guaranteeing to do something.

    As far as I'm concerned this was the Lumia team new year's resolution. I know how most of my plans for the next year turn out...

    I agree that this is a ridiculously bad tweet that is just begging to be misunderstood, but ultimately, it's not saying every existing WP8 device WILL be updated.
    Last edited by a5cent; 08-28-2015 at 12:39 PM. Reason: spelling
    08-28-2015 09:59 AM
  21. Diego Ceccacci's Avatar
    I'm skeptical about this claim too. It would be helpful if you could backup your claims with some source so we're all on the same page.

    AFAIK MS never said every device would be updated. AFAIK the closest we have to that is a tweet on the Lumia channel from some anonymous employee:

    It's a terribly bad tweet that should never have been made. I'm not aware of anything else that comes this close to seemingly promise something MS simply has no control over and therefor can't promise. Still, planning to do something is far from promising/guaranteeing to do something.

    As far as I'm concerned this was the Lumia team new year's resolution. I know how most of my plans for the next year turn out...

    I agree that this is a ridiculously bad tweet that is just begging to be misunderstood, but ultimately, it's not saying every existing WP8 device WILL be updated.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Lumia/sta...14535263641600
    08-28-2015 10:16 AM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    Maybe I'm missing something, but that's the exact same tweet I just linked to. As I just explained, that is NOT saying every device WILL be updated.
    tgp likes this.
    08-28-2015 10:21 AM
  23. Madeye234's Avatar
    Joe Belfiore really played us when he showed windows 10 on his 1520......
    Marko Marjanovic and mprebich like this.
    08-28-2015 11:26 AM
  24. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Joe Belfiore really played us when he showed windows 10 on his 1520......
    Why, I can show you Windows 10 on my 1520 as well, what's the problem here, just wait till RTM time, join insiders and update then leave insiders.
    08-28-2015 11:34 AM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    IMHO this thread has run it's course.

    • We know anybody with a L1520 can update to W10M via the Windows Insider program. Anybody who wants W10M on their L1520 can have it.
    • We know that the list that set off this storm in a water glass was never intended to mention every device that will receive W10M. That list only mentions those devices that will be updated as part of the first wave. More will follow!
    • As far as the L1520 being updated by carriers is concerned, we currently just don't know. It is possible that AT&T U.S. will not update L1520 devices on their network, but as of yet their is neither positive or negative confirmation.
    • Although MS may have communicated poorly, they did not in affect promise to update every existing WP8 device. They did state that they plan to, but as we all know plans can change.


    Closed.
    08-28-2015 11:49 AM
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