09-13-2014 05:06 PM
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  1. ChinuKabi's Avatar
    Could they not have used a os which could also run the Symbian apps. For eg sailfish os. It's a great os by the way.
    09-08-2014 09:05 AM
  2. psoham777's Avatar
    Could they not have used a os which could also run the Symbian apps. For eg sailfish os. It's a great os by the way.
    Why do you need Symbian? Symbian apps & games were worst, meego was good, but Stephen Elop didn't approve it, I don't know why
    09-08-2014 09:10 AM
  3. AR2186's Avatar
    Nope that's not the case. Nokia was running into huge losses as it kept on losing its market share. Even initially when wp came, people were hesitant to but it. & now, after MS bought Nokia, its running in profit, so much that it could re open its own new company & make profits out of it. Still I don't like MS removing Nokia's brand name off the phones
    Its not profitable under Microsoft, which you can clearly see from Microsoft's financial reports. It was a cash drain that would have killed Nokia if they kept it. They couldn't make the hard decisions to close down factories, product lines, etc because of the hit to volume and what that would have looked like on a go forward basis with the gives cost base they had.
    09-08-2014 09:18 AM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    Ya, exactly. It's better to make $20/phone off those remaining devices than to make $0/phone for them. When you have old stock, it's usually hard to sell because there are newer comparable models. So to get them to move off the shelves, you have to sell super cheap. Even if that technically means you sell each of those devices at a loss.

    Retail stores will do that sometimes as well. It's a common method to move old stock.
    Yes that's true. Another factor they have to consider is how many customers buy a discounted device rather than the new replacement. In some cases, it might be more profitable to throw the old model away if a customer would buy a new model were the discounted one not available. It's just another educated guess they have to make.

    Here is a recent news article about new vehicles that don't sell. I cannot vouch for its accuracy, but it brings up an interesting theory. Basically, it says that if the manufacturers sold these vehicles at a discount, it would take away from new vehicle sales.
    09-08-2014 09:21 AM
  5. AR2186's Avatar
    Simple: Nokia still exists. They're still a company. The only thing that was sold to Microsoft was their devices and services business. Think of it like this: you had 4 houses. You sold one of them. That's what Nokia did. They sold to Microsoft one of their houses. They didn't sell the entire company.

    In that contract by which Microsoft bought Nokia's phone division, Nokia is restricted to release phones themselves or lend their name to other OEMs to do it for them, until 2016. That means that until December 2015, Nokia can NOT release phones.
    However, starting 1st of January 2016, Nokia can again sell their own phones running the OS they so wish (Android,WP, iOS, Sailfish, Ubunto, WebOS, MeeGo, whatever they want).

    The phones that have been announced since 25th of April (Lumia 530, 730, 735, 830) were NOT released by Nokia. They were already released by Microsoft Mobile which means, altough they have the "Nokia" logo on them, they are NOT Nokia phones.

    Come 1st January 2016, Nokia can return to the phone business if they so wish. Since Nokia owns all the patents needed to produce the phones, they just need a new "phone division" to do it. Which can be easily done through the acquisition of Jolla, for example.

    I think 2015 will be a good year to see exactly where Nokia is aiming to go. After all, nothing in the deal prevents Nokia from, for example, presenting a phone in September or October 2015 to go on sale on 1st of January 2016. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
    Meanwhile Nokia is working on other stuff for Android which we will see way before that.
    You realize they sold all of their technological know how, supplier relationships, carrier relationships, customer service, etc with the devices and services business, right? Its a pipe-dream that they will launch another phone. Additionally it appears Microsoft has licensed the name for longer than the original deal now that new smartphones are still being released with the Nokia name
    09-08-2014 09:28 AM
  6. ChinuKabi's Avatar
    You realize they sold all of their technological know how, supplier relationships, carrier relationships, customer service, etc with the devices and services business, right? Its a pipe-dream that they will launch another phone. Additionally it appears Microsoft has licensed the name for longer than the original deal now that new smartphones are still being released with the Nokia name
    Can anyone clarify this thing. Please, it seems very interesting. Two different views are here. Which one to follow?
    09-08-2014 09:58 AM
  7. psoham777's Avatar
    Its a contract, that Nokia could use their name only for 2 years, so soon after some months Nokia name would be removed
    09-08-2014 09:59 AM
  8. AR2186's Avatar
    The contract was that Microsoft could use Nokia on dumb phones for 10 years (think Asha, etc) and that Nokia couldn't reenter the market until 2016.
    09-08-2014 10:33 AM
  9. ChinuKabi's Avatar
    Ar2186 & psoham777 are contradicting
    09-08-2014 10:44 AM
  10. psoham777's Avatar
    Ar2186 & psoham777 are contradicting
    Contract is of 10 years, I didn't say it wasn't, I just said Nokia could only use its name for 2 years after MS bought Nokia, so soon Nokia name would be removed, that's what MS said
    09-08-2014 10:54 AM
  11. DJCBS's Avatar
    You realize they sold all of their technological know how, supplier relationships, carrier relationships, customer service, etc with the devices and services business, right? Its a pipe-dream that they will launch another phone. Additionally it appears Microsoft has licensed the name for longer than the original deal now that new smartphones are still being released with the Nokia name
    That's actually false. Nokia retained ALL the technological know how as not only the R&D division that created the tech remained at Nokia, but all the patents remained at Nokia. They maintain supplier relationships and carrier relationships through their other businesses. Nokia Networks works closely with European and Japanese carriers.
    The only thing they have to build again is the customer service, something that isn't as hard to do as it would be if they actually had to rebuild all you said.
    No, it's not a pipe-dream. Actually Nokia is even scheduled to return to consumer products before 2014 is out, early 2015 at best.

    Regarding the branding, Microsoft is only going around the terms to extend the use of the name. They've made it so that phones that were started by Nokia, still get the Nokia branding. That's why the 830, 730 and 530 all come with the Nokia branding. If Goldfinger hadn't been cancelled, because it was started by Nokia, it would still carry the Nokia branding.
    However, you should not see many more SMARTPHONES (remember, dumbphones can still use Nokia's name for 10 years) with the Nokia branding. Actually, notice that Microsoft has already started to phase out the name. Not only are the apps being rebranded, on the 4th September event they haven't mentioned Nokia's name at all when presenting the phones. They always talked about "Lumia, Lumia, Lumia, Lumia". They never said "the Nokia Lumia" etc.
    I think come 2015 you should see the Nokia name gone from Microsoft Mobile products. The only question I have is if the 1030 will arrive in 2015 under the Nokia brand. I have a feeling it won't as Microsoft will probably want to use it as the first MM flagship device to launch with WP9.
    09-08-2014 11:41 AM
  12. ChinuKabi's Avatar
    I arrive at the same conclusion, wish nokia was never sold.
    09-08-2014 12:00 PM
  13. xandros9's Avatar
    I arrive at the same conclusion, wish nokia was never sold.
    and if it was the opposite, i'd wish it was

    can't change the others mind i guess, oh well. just opinion
    09-08-2014 05:59 PM
  14. ChinuKabi's Avatar
    and if it was the opposite, i'd wish it was

    can't change the others mind i guess, oh well. just opinion
    what opposite?
    09-08-2014 06:35 PM
  15. xandros9's Avatar
    what opposite?
    if Nokia wasn't sold to MS
    09-08-2014 07:02 PM
  16. ChinuKabi's Avatar
    Nokia is a household name out here. But people are not buying it now as they think that nokia is no more
    09-08-2014 08:25 PM
  17. DJCBS's Avatar
    I arrive at the same conclusion, wish nokia was never sold.
    Every single true Nokia fan didn't want Nokia's D&S division to be sold.

    Now that it was, all we have to do is support the new CEO that's fixing the damage Eflop did, putting Nokia back together and support their future endeavours. I'm starting by switching to Android and using Nokia's HERE apps, Z Launcher and anything else they release on Android. And as soon as they put out their first new-Nokia phone, I'll be in the front line to buy it.
    09-08-2014 08:27 PM
  18. AR2186's Avatar
    Every single true Nokia fan didn't want Nokia's D&S division to be sold.

    Now that it was, all we have to do is support the new CEO that's fixing the damage Eflop did, putting Nokia back together and support their future endeavours. I'm starting by switching to Android and using Nokia's HERE apps, Z Launcher and anything else they release on Android. And as soon as they put out their first new-Nokia phone, I'll be in the front line to buy it.
    They will never put out another phone, so you have to get over it. Their board of directors will never approve it given that they failed miserably with their D&S business and it almost bankrupted them
    09-09-2014 07:58 AM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Iconic brands come and go all the time. Pontiac, Plymouth, Pan Am, etc. They fail because of bad management. As the previous person said, "get over it" and move on.
    Sent from a Fire Engine Red Lumia 1520 via Tapatalk
    09-09-2014 02:18 PM
  20. DJCBS's Avatar
    They will never put out another phone, so you have to get over it. Their board of directors will never approve it given that they failed miserably with their D&S business and it almost bankrupted them
    You know nothing, Jon Snow ;)

    Iconic brands come and go all the time. Pontiac, Plymouth, Pan Am, etc. They fail because of bad management. As the previous person said, "get over it" and move on.
    Sent from a Fire Engine Red Lumia 1520 via Tapatalk
    None of those brands are "iconic" outside the USA. Nokia is a brand loved around the World EXCEPT in the USA. Therefore, it's a completely different scenario.
    Besides, people said the same thing about Alcatel a new years ago. And there you have Alcatel back in the game.
    Never EVER use the USA paradigm for market behaviour.
    09-09-2014 03:10 PM
  21. AR2186's Avatar
    You know nothing, Jon Snow ;)



    None of those brands are "iconic" outside the USA. Nokia is a brand loved around the World EXCEPT in the USA. Therefore, it's a completely different scenario.
    Besides, people said the same thing about Alcatel a new years ago. And there you have Alcatel back in the game.
    Never EVER use the USA paradigm for market behaviour.
    I can guarantee I know more about this than you ever will, but why listen to me, I'm just a guy commenting on an internet forum who happens to do this sort of thing for my day job. I don't know where you are getting your facts, but Nokia was an iconic brand in the US for a very long time, but they failed to innovate and capture the markets attention and drifted into a state of malaise, which is why they eventually were sold to Microsoft.

    People can use the USA as a paradigm for market behavior because the US controls a significant portion of the US GDP and their companies are swallowing up foreign companies, especially in the technology space. India and China may have many, many more people, but they don't spend like an American or even European does (just look at the per capita GDP numbers).

    I also believe it was rumor that Nokia can return to the smart phone market by 2016. Microsoft has pretty good lawyers, and I've done enough of these sorts of contracts to know their is usually at least a 3-5 year non-compete. That assumes they even could compete (they can't, unless they license out the name like Westinghouse did).

    As I said before, it's a pipedream, get over it and if you don't like Windows Phone, good bye
    09-09-2014 05:38 PM
  22. DJCBS's Avatar
    I can guarantee I know more about this than you ever will, but why listen to me, I'm just a guy commenting on an internet forum who happens to do this sort of thing for my day job. I don't know where you are getting your facts, but Nokia was an iconic brand in the US for a very long time, but they failed to innovate and capture the markets attention and drifted into a state of malaise, which is why they eventually were sold to Microsoft.

    People can use the USA as a paradigm for market behavior because the US controls a significant portion of the US GDP and their companies are swallowing up foreign companies, especially in the technology space. India and China may have many, many more people, but they don't spend like an American or even European does (just look at the per capita GDP numbers).

    I also believe it was rumor that Nokia can return to the smart phone market by 2016. Microsoft has pretty good lawyers, and I've done enough of these sorts of contracts to know their is usually at least a 3-5 year non-compete. That assumes they even could compete (they can't, unless they license out the name like Westinghouse did).

    As I said before, it's a pipedream, get over it and if you don't like Windows Phone, good bye
    1 - You can do whatever you want for a job. It doesn't make your opinion neither better nor more true. You may be arrogant to the point of believing you own the answers to everything and anything and that all others are wrong and that if you declare something "a pipedream", then it *must* be what you say... but in the end of the day, unless you're a member of Nokia's Board of Directors, you know nothing and your opinion is worth little. You're not a member of the Nokia BoD, you're not Nokia's CEO, you're not Nokia's chairman, your opinion on what Nokia will or will not do matters not. Just like mine doesn't (unless shareholders get to vote on it, in which case, mine will count something).

    2 - "People can use the USA as a paradigm for market behavior because the US controls a significant portion of the US GDP and their companies are swallowing up foreign companies, especially in the technology space."
    2.1 - The USA doesn't control the majority of the World's mobile phone market. Furthermore, the functioning of the American market is radically different from the rest of the World. Example: NO company needs to beg, whine or bribe carriers for their phones to sell. In Europe, for example, you don't need carriers to sell phones. People buy them directly from either the OEM's or from tech retail stores. There's no "exclusivity", nor wide-spread use of "contracts" and certainly no "subsidies". Therefore, in Nokia's case, they do NOT need any carriers to sell phones. They just need to put them on the shelves and market them. As every OEM does. Carriers have no say neither on what people can or can not buy to use on their network and they pick the phones they want to pick. A carrier can, eventually, request an OEM to add something to the phone they're carrying (like Telefnica did with the 64GB version of the 1020) but they could NEVER do what AT&T does with Qi charging and strip phones from their functionalities just because the carrier wants the OEM to.
    2.2 - The fact that US companies are swallowing foreign companies has NOTHING to do with sales and it certainly has nothing to do with sales of phones in the US or anywhere else. Otherwise Motorola would sell by the millions instead of Samsung. If you actually take a close look at the "American" companies in the phone business...well, you have Apple. Apple IS relevant in the US market. The other relevant Android brands in the US market are NOT American. In Europe, on the other hand, Apple has residual relevance. In some markets it's a big deal, in others not so much. And Motorola has lost almost all the relevance they once had. And as soon as the "Nokia" name goes away from Microsoft phones, you'll see sales of Microsoft Mobile phones plumb. And you have a much more colourful landscape. Sony is huge in Europe for example, and almost absent in the US. HTC is not as popular over here but LG is. And we also have Alcatel, Wiko, Jolla and other European based companies that sell phones but not by the millions. Then you have Samsung, of course.
    Any return of Nokia isn't mandatory to be done in their prior scale. Who told you they would launch phones globally? They can perfectly well do: 1 - what Sony does and focus on markets where they're relevant (Europe, India) or 2 - do what Motorola does with the US and focus 99% of their attention in Europe.


    3 - If you do "this" for a living (whatever "this" is), you must not be very good at it. "I also believe it was rumor that Nokia can return to the smart phone market by 2016." READ. THE. DEAL. It's available online. It has been for a year. Google it.
    Nokia can't return to smartphones until 2016. Period. It's as clear as day and as a lawyer I can tell you myself, Microsoft will NOT be able to go around it. No matter how much you twist and turn it.
    09-09-2014 07:50 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    You know nothing, Jon Snow ;)



    None of those brands are "iconic" outside the USA. Nokia is a brand loved around the World EXCEPT in the USA. Therefore, it's a completely different scenario.
    Besides, people said the same thing about Alcatel a new years ago. And there you have Alcatel back in the game.
    Never EVER use the USA paradigm for market behaviour.

    I suspect you are not old enough to know what brands were popular in other eras. As Europe was reconstructing after WWII, American brands were highly thought of. Plymouth was a very desirable brand in Europe and influenced many of the great designers like Pinin Farina, Giugiaro and others. The tail fins of the fifties were part and parcel of Chrysler Design.

    The Pan Am Clipper was the world standard for passenger travel. A 747 landing at Gatwick or de Gaulle was a moment to behold.

    Next you'll tell me that Coca-Cola is a regional soft drink in Atlanta.

    Please don't assume that all US citizens are so arrogant to think there's nothing outside the U.S.
    tgp likes this.
    09-09-2014 09:06 PM
  24. DJCBS's Avatar
    I suspect you are not old enough to know what brands were popular in other eras. As Europe was reconstructing after WWII, American brands were highly thought of. Plymouth was a very desirable brand in Europe and influenced many of the great designers like Pinin Farina, Giugiaro and others. The tail fins of the fifties were part and parcel of Chrysler Design.

    The Pan Am Clipper was the world standard for passenger travel. A 747 landing at Gatwick or de Gaulle was a moment to behold.

    Next you'll tell me that Coca-Cola is a regional soft drink in Atlanta.

    Please don't assume that all US citizens are so arrogant to think there's nothing outside the U.S.
    We're talking mobile. So there's little use to bring up post-WWII brands.
    I'm not old enough to remember post-WWII Europe as I wasn't born in the 50's. But I know PanAm, as they had an entire TV series with their name. But to put them as "iconic" around the World...that's stretching it. Coca-Cola IS an iconic brand. They even created Father Christmas as we know it. Still, the other brands faded into oblivion.
    If we were to compare the strength of the Nokia brand around the World, it would be closer to Coca-Cola than to PanAm.
    09-10-2014 07:23 PM
  25. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Ok, we'll play by your rules. What says you about Palm? Not iconic enough considering that PDAs are commonly known as Palm Pilots? Plenty of mismanagement there.
    Sent from a Fire Engine Red Lumia 1520 via Tapatalk
    xandros9 likes this.
    09-10-2014 07:33 PM
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