1. mwindgre's Avatar
    Or will I have to go into Dev. Preview mode to get this now?
    12-06-2014 04:57 AM
  2. RumoredNow's Avatar
    It just hit in a Preview for Developers update yesterday...

    Main line users are still waiting for Live Folders and other 8.1.1 advances to come to their phones since late summer.

    No. You won't see mobile data toggle in notifications anytime soon.

    I'm against people getting on P4D just to get a shortcut to a feature. That is NOT what the program is intended for and too many are on the program without understanding what it does and what it may do to their device. Such users then run into issues and seem not understand why they have them or how to go about addressing them.

    That may or may not be you, mwindgre. It's your first post and I have no way of knowing what your level of tech competence is with your Windows Phone device.

    Go ahead and enable the Preview for Developers IF:
    • You are prepared to cheerfully reset your phone and loose all data at any time and without warning - no complaints afterward that you had to do a factory reset
    • You are prepared and ready to assume all risks to your device and not blame anyone if something goes wrong
    • You understand it is un-optimized software that may cause issues with your device, that no one is responsible for troubleshooting your device and fixing it except you
    • You understand the true purpose of the Preview for Developers Program is not to bring you a feature early - it is for App Developers to test new APIs and update their Apps to function under new protocols which have not been finalized nor approved by your carrier to allow your device to work on their network
    • You understand that it may void any warranty you have on your device either explicitly stated or implied


    Proceed as you will.
    aximtreo, mwindgre, ven07 and 3 others like this.
    12-06-2014 10:50 AM
  3. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    It just hit in a Preview for Developers update yesterday...

    Main line users are still waiting for Live Folders and other 8.1.1 advances to come to their phones since late summer.

    No. You won't see mobile data toggle in notifications anytime soon.

    I'm against people getting on P4D just to get a shortcut to a feature. That is NOT what the program is intended for and too many are on the program without understanding what it does and what it may do to their device. Such users then run into issues and seem not understand why they have them or how to go about addressing them.

    That may or may not be you, mwindgre. It's your first post and I have no way of knowing what your level of tech competence is with your Windows Phone device.

    Go ahead and enable the Preview for Developers IF:
    • You are prepared to cheerfully reset your phone and loose all data at any time and without warning - no complaints afterward that you had to do a factory reset
    • You are prepared and ready to assume all risks to your device and not blame anyone if something goes wrong
    • You understand it is un-optimized software that may cause issues with your device, that no one is responsible for troubleshooting your device and fixing it except you
    • You understand the true purpose of the Preview for Developers Program is not to bring you a feature early - it is for App Developers to test new APIs and update their Apps to function under new protocols which have not been finalized nor approved by your carrier to allow your device to work on their network
    • You understand that it may void any warranty you have on your device either explicitly stated or implied


    Proceed as you will.
    The preview for developers is an early update scheme. Nothing more, nothing less. It reacts badly with devices which have heavily customized firmware, like Samsung devices. If you would prefer to regurgitate such, then please. What new Apis did Microsoft introduce in the last two updates which are already listed in the WP 8.1 update history ?
    aximtreo likes this.
    12-06-2014 11:02 AM
  4. Zulfigar's Avatar
    Or will I have to go into Dev. Preview mode to get this now?
    Joining PFD is free, easy to do, but comes with risks. So far, the biggest risks is that your phone might lock up (Lumia 925 when 8.1 came out), or an infinite restart (Samsung ATIV after the latest update).

    To answer the question about when phones who aren't on PFD gets the toggle, I'm thinking it'll be part of the next update, which will bring Denim, Folders, and battery saver improvements.

    So yeah, if you want to get onto the PFD, go for it, know that there are risks (it is beta software), and Microsoft likes numbers, so the more on it, the happier they are, haha.
    Last edited by Zulfigar; 12-06-2014 at 11:23 AM.
    12-06-2014 11:12 AM
  5. RumoredNow's Avatar
    The preview for developers is an early update scheme. Nothing more, nothing less. It reacts badly with devices which have heavily customized firmware, like Samsung devices. If you would prefer to regurgitate such, then please. What new Apis did Microsoft introduce in the last two updates which are already listed in the WP 8.1 update history ?
    From 8.0 official (where the OP is at) to 8.1.1 and beyond GDR 1 (where the P4D would take the OP) there are no changes to the OS that Developers need to incorporate into their Apps??? Really? No Cortana, No Notification Center, No Live Folders, No changes to how cards act in multitasking view, nothing has changed in how the OS interacts with Apps... Really?

    I'm not against P4D or trying to prevent those who are willing to put in the time and research from using it. I think it is treated way too casually and that too many users don't understand what the program does or entails. it is not, "...an early update scheme. Nothing more, nothing less." That's the issue. It was never designed for each and every user to be on it to get OS updates. Or else the P4D updates would be official and would go to everyone regardless...

    It is NOT a panacea or a simple "go ahead, skip to the front of the class without doing any work."
    aximtreo likes this.
    12-06-2014 12:50 PM
  6. RumoredNow's Avatar
    @Ebuka

    Just a question: Do you notice the numerous "Help Me" threads scattered all over the board started each and every day by casual users who are on the Preview for Developers?
    12-06-2014 01:18 PM
  7. mwindgre's Avatar
    Thanks for your detailed replies. Actually I had a Lumia 520 which I put on P4D. I only had one problem with P4D on the 520, which was installing update 1, which only solved itself when the update said 'this update will install automatically in 3? days'. Until I saw that notice I'd tried 10 times installing it, there was as you must know a fault with the update.
    But the Lumia 735 comes up to date with Denim.
    The data toggle will be great. But I'll wait until its officially launched, because it became rather annoying when having an update that all the apps on the SD card had to be reinstalled each time.
    As this is my main phone I'm waiting until I see a trustworthy site saying the update is safe.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    12-06-2014 01:22 PM
  8. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    @RumoredNow By last two updates I meant the last two updates as in battery saver live tile and mobile data + Cortana. 8.1 was 4 updates ago.
    The dev preview is designed to bypass carriers I.e Verizon and ensure updates can potentially reach every device. For instance, the HTC 8X and 8S devices received a fix specially so they could participate in 8
    1.1
    12-06-2014 06:42 PM
  9. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    @Rumorednow, those issues will likely exist regardless as dev preview SW is done and dusted. It is RTM already.
    12-06-2014 06:44 PM
  10. RumoredNow's Avatar
    @Rumorednow, those issues will likely exist regardless as dev preview SW is done and dusted. It is RTM already.
    RTM ready, yet not optimized for systems and specific hardware, thus it may cause issues with normal operation of your device.

    Many of these Help Me threads:
    • Exist in ignorance of the fact that P4D may cause system issues like decrease in battery run time or connectivity difficulties
    • Bemoan the fact that the update did not deliver Cyan or Denim when it in fact contains no firmware
    • Appear side by side in the forum with several other threads on the exact same issue
    • Are cross posted to irrelevant forums or appear as unrelated posts of an off topic nature in threads where they do not belong
    • And show a shocking lack of even minimal research when the issue being asked about has been answered numerous times in recent threads or as Front Page articles on Windows Central


    The widening spread of Casual users on P4D has demonstrated to my eyes, at least, that many users on the program are not in fact technically qualified to take part in it. It is not as dangerous to devices as Android "hacking" or iOS "jailbreaking" to be certain. It does resemble them in that a minimum level of understanding should be applied to its use.

    In the case of the OP... It was his first post here. No one has any idea if he is a Windows Phone guru or a twelve year old whose parents will pitch a fit with Windows Central ownership if he somehow borks his device by not following instructions. Fortunately, the OP checked back in and the latter scenario turns out not be the case apparently.

    Now... Examine the thread title and the OP. It is a first post. Here is someone asking if something just released as a feature YESTERDAY on the Preview for Developer updates will be coming to his device soon... A device well known around this forum and by informed users everywhere to be in danger of not receiving updates from its carrier for way longer than anyone anticipates under a normal release cycle. The OP, with such an introduction to this forum, seems to not be following advances closely. There is ZERO indication of any technical skill level to gauge by.

    That the immediate remedy required is to enroll in P4D seems to me to be irresponsible and somewhat dangerous as a blind and universal recommendation to make for any and all users alike. There are risks to any modding of devices - again, the risks under P4D are not as severe as hacking and jailbreaking, but they are risks nonetheless. I find the downplaying of those risks to users of unknown and untested skill potentially damaging.


    You stated:

    The preview for developers is an early update scheme. Nothing more, nothing less...
    ...The dev preview is designed to bypass carriers I.e Verizon and ensure updates can potentially reach every device...

    Here is what Microsoft itself says is the purpose of the Preview for Developers program:

    As a Windows developer, you can preview Windows Phone system updates before mobile providers make them available to customers. With these updates, you can test and validate your apps on your development phone to make sure they work correctly when the updates are officially released to all customers.
    Windows Phone Preview for Developers ? Windows app development


    You keep talking about the Preview... But I don't think it means what you seem to think it does. Microsoft doesn't seem to think your way either. If they did, they would take back the reins from the carriers and push their own updates to devices the way Apple does with iPhones.

    I'm not meaning to make any of this somehow Your Responsibility, Ebuka. I see your posts around the forums and you are both knowledgeable and helpful to others and I applaud you for that. But you do seem to want to engage in a dialog on this issue and I can see you feel passionate about, as do I. Yours is the majority opinion, certainly. I think that is part of the danger; those in the know blindly telling others to come on ahead without any real gauge of their skill and readiness to engage in such a venture. The Android and iOS forums have "voices of caution" trying to make sure neophytes do not bork their devices and grow to hate the OS because they were not ready to engage in advanced maneuvers.

    I have not really seen a "voice of caution" to advise Windows Phone neophytes... I think its time we had one, before all the new users get burned by using P4D without understanding it. They then might tell all their friends how broken and buggy Windows Phone is and we dedicated users know that not to be true...
    12-06-2014 07:52 PM
  11. ven07's Avatar
    Wow those are some solid points! @RumoredNow.. I love the challenge of figuring things out, so dealing with problems is not a big deal for me, but others are not as patient and at the slightest mishap would grow to dislike our platform and would bash it at every given chance.. We do need to be careful when telling others to join dev prev, as it is not for everyone, but at the same time, this message would be confusing to some, because even WC doesn't actually warn users of the possible consequences (anymore)
    Last edited by ven07; 12-23-2014 at 03:30 PM.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    12-06-2014 08:03 PM
  12. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    RTM ready, yet not optimized for systems and specific hardware, thus it may cause issues with normal operation of your device.

    Many of these Help Me threads:
    • Exist in ignorance of the fact that P4D may cause system issues like decrease in battery run time or connectivity difficulties
    • Bemoan the fact that the update did not deliver Cyan or Denim when it in fact contains no firmware
    • Appear side by side in the forum with several other threads on the exact same issue
    • Are cross posted to irrelevant forums or appear as unrelated posts of an off topic nature in threads where they do not belong
    • And show a shocking lack of even minimal research when the issue being asked about has been answered numerous times in recent threads or as Front Page articles on Windows Central


    The widening spread of Casual users on P4D has demonstrated to my eyes, at least, that many users on the program are not in fact technically qualified to take part in it. It is not as dangerous to devices as Android "hacking" or iOS "jailbreaking" to be certain. It does resemble them in that a minimum level of understanding should be applied to its use.

    In the case of the OP... It was his first post here. No one has any idea if he is a Windows Phone guru or a twelve year old whose parents will pitch a fit with Windows Central ownership if he somehow borks his device by not following instructions. Fortunately, the OP checked back in and the latter scenario turns out not be the case apparently.

    Now... Examine the thread title and the OP. It is a first post. Here is someone asking if something just released as a feature YESTERDAY on the Preview for Developer updates will be coming to his device soon... A device well known around this forum and by informed users everywhere to be in danger of not receiving updates from its carrier for way longer than anyone anticipates under a normal release cycle. The OP, with such an introduction to this forum, seems to not be following advances closely. There is ZERO indication of any technical skill level to gauge by.

    That the immediate remedy required is to enroll in P4D seems to me to be irresponsible and somewhat dangerous as a blind and universal recommendation to make for any and all users alike. There are risks to any modding of devices - again, the risks under P4D are not as severe as hacking and jailbreaking, but they are risks nonetheless. I find the downplaying of those risks to users of unknown and untested skill potentially damaging.


    You stated:






    Here is what Microsoft itself says is the purpose of the Preview for Developers program:



    Windows Phone Preview for Developers ? Windows app development


    You keep talking about the Preview... But I don't think it means what you seem to think it does. Microsoft doesn't seem to think your way either. If they did, they would take back the reins from the carriers and push their own updates to devices the way Apple does with iPhones.

    I'm not meaning to make any of this somehow Your Responsibility, Ebuka. I see your posts around the forums and you are both knowledgeable and helpful to others and I applaud you for that. But you do seem to want to engage in a dialog on this issue and I can see you feel passionate about, as do I. Yours is the majority opinion, certainly. I think that is part of the danger; those in the know blindly telling others to come on ahead without any real gauge of their skill and readiness to engage in such a venture. The Android and iOS forums have "voices of caution" trying to make sure neophytes do not bork their devices and grow to hate the OS because they were not ready to engage in advanced maneuvers.

    I have not really seen a "voice of caution" to advise Windows Phone neophytes... I think its time we had one, before all the new users get burned by using P4D without understanding it. They then might tell all their friends how broken and buggy Windows Phone is and we dedicated users know that not to be true...
    Hmmm....you make a lot of sense.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    12-07-2014 04:02 PM
  13. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I appreciate that...
    12-07-2014 04:47 PM
  14. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    I appreciate that...
    @Rumorednow. Just to throw a curveball in this Microsoft states:

    This site states (https://dev.windows.com/en-us/develop/devpreview)
    "As a Windows developer, you can preview Windows Phone system updates before mobile providers make them available to customers. With these updates, you can test and validate your apps on your development phone to make sure they work correctly when the updates are officially released to all customers."
    This is what we always assumed right?
    It then goes on to say:
    "Not a developer? No problem"
    The link then goes to this page which states:
    "You can get the latest and greatest Windows Phone operating system now, without waiting for your mobile provider to give you the updates."If you agree with the terms, register with App Studio—it’s free. Don’t worry, you don’t need to make any apps. Just register so you can get the updates"

    For the warranty issue "You might void any warranty from your mobile operator and OEM. Contact your mobile operator if you’re concerned about any repercussions."
    So its done. Its an early update thing.
    12-22-2014 11:19 AM
  15. mwindgre's Avatar
    Just got the update to the 735 with the mobile data toggle.
    Now on 8.10.14234.375
    Now to discover any other improvements it has.
    03-07-2015 11:08 AM

Similar Threads

  1. When will the Lumia 535 come to New Zealand?
    By Satorindley in forum Microsoft Lumia 535
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-11-2014, 04:17 AM
  2. Just received an invite to buy Oneplus One in India.
    By crunkizzlekid in forum Nokia Lumia 1520
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-09-2014, 06:35 PM
  3. MS1030 is the LM1020 replacement?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-06-2014, 11:14 AM
  4. Denim update
    By Tristan Luceto in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-06-2014, 03:58 AM
  5. Where are playlists stored in 8.1?
    By Bigfireq in forum Windows Phone 8.1
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-06-2014, 02:19 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD