MSFTisMIA
New member
Most 810 users are. I don't remember anyone doing cartwheels in celebration of the puny internal storage or their "other " folder being about 5GB in size...
Lumia 810 - EOL - What about Firmware updates?
- Thread starter ssapre
- Start date
Most 810 users are. I don't remember anyone doing cartwheels in celebration of the puny internal storage or their "other " folder being about 5GB in size...
Dr_8820
New member
I went to WalMart and accidentally left my Lumia 810 on the car seat...when I returned to the car, my window was smashed and there were 2 more 810's on my seat...
lsmachado
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MSFTisMIA
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I'm surprised you didn't see them side by side with the following letters on each screen: E-O-L...
waazzupppp
New member
Not that I'm changing my tune about seeing an update soon, but you realize that this has been way worse for users in the past right? You complain about the 810 being EOL'd so quickly, but we all forget how the Radar and Titan lasted 7 months before Microsoft booted WP7... The Titan 2 was only out for 3 months before WP8 was announced... The Samsung Focus 2 was released in may and WP8 was announced in June...
Overall, it really looks like 6 months is about the standard time frame for Microsoft's OEM's to release a new device. Even the golden boys at Nokia released the 900 in April of 2012 and then the 920 in November... 6 months on the shelf really appears to be quite normal for Windows Phone devices... Sad, but true...
Nokia - 900 (4/12) - 920 (11/12) - 1020 (7/13 rumored) = 7-8 months
HTC - Titan (11/11) - Titan 2 (4/12) - 8x (11/12) = 6-7 months
Samsung - Focus (11/10) - Focus S/Flash (11/11) - Focus 2 (5/12) - ATIV S (2/13 delayed) = 9 months average
Overall, it really looks like 6 months is about the standard time frame for Microsoft's OEM's to release a new device. Even the golden boys at Nokia released the 900 in April of 2012 and then the 920 in November... 6 months on the shelf really appears to be quite normal for Windows Phone devices... Sad, but true...
Nokia - 900 (4/12) - 920 (11/12) - 1020 (7/13 rumored) = 7-8 months
HTC - Titan (11/11) - Titan 2 (4/12) - 8x (11/12) = 6-7 months
Samsung - Focus (11/10) - Focus S/Flash (11/11) - Focus 2 (5/12) - ATIV S (2/13 delayed) = 9 months average
b23h
New member
I have been buying technology for years now and am very used to a fairly quick obsolescence. My concern, and I expect the concern of most of us is not simply that the 810 is EOL after such a short time, it is that T-Mobile has shown a tendency to abandon their products. The title of this thread is "EOL- what about firmware updates?"
At the end of the day a company can do whatever it wants while selling a device, however if they've sold you the device I think we should expect a reasonable period of support for it. At this point the issue with storage has been well known for months now and it is still not resolved. Whether or not that is Nokia or Microsoft's fault, that is not impressive customer service.
Dr_8820
New member
Plus 810. This isn't about the phone being EOL'd, this is about supporting the phone that's been EOL'd. I've been following the saga with BlackBerry and the playbook, BlackBerry has been promising those owners an upgrade to the newest software for the playbook, as soon as they sold out, no update for you! (sound familiar T-Mobile 810 people)...now, do you think those people would actually buy something again from BlackBerry after this? Same thing with me and T-Mobile and Nokia...I'm not going to reward them with more money after they turned their backs on us and instead offer the product with improved software that we should have had months ago.
MSFTisMIA
New member
Nice chart, but I'll throw a couple thoughts in there.
Firstly, I don't count "announced dates" into the equation. I count released to consumer dates. We cannot use what we cannot buy. It took Nokia 1 year to go from talking about WP to having its first handset...Lumia 800. Not sure why you didn't have the 710 on the list either, because technically the run of the 710 before getting replaced by the 810 (on t-mo anyways) was more than 6 months.
The Titan was killed by the Titan 2 only because of LTE. Blame AT&T for not having their network ready. The Lumia 900 did replace something...the Focus S (EOL - 5 months, from Nov 2011-Apr 2012). The Ativ S replaced the Focus S, not the Focus 2 (1 year cycle). Focus 2 was replaced by Samsung Odyssey (more than 6 months between devices).
If you want to talk carrier specifics, look at t-mo. Radar replaced HD7 (1 year). 8X replaces Radar (1 year). 810 replaces 710 (over 6 months). 925 replaces 8X (8 months, if launched this month). 521 replaces 810 (EOL - 5 months, actual replacement 6 months). AT&T's tree is convoluted, so you cannot use them and globally it is trickier hard because Nokia pushed AT&T devices first since their Lumia 900 contract. If the EOS is the flagship phone, it may not get launched until September at earliest - because it would cannibalize 925 sales. If so, that gives the Lumia 920 10-12 months in charge, which is the average length for a flagship.
Summary: flagships get about a year, good selling mid ranges get about the same, and the 810 got 5 months. Notice the 820/822 falls into the "good mid range" category.
I have been buying unlocked Nokia phones for a long time before buying my 810 under contract. The unlocked phones were supported with firmware updates for a few years before they gave up supporting the phones. I don't know if it is just a carrier issue of apathy or Nokia has developed a bad case of it themselves. Either way it seems to me that customer service is a thing of the past. It is all about the the bottom line not about building customer rapport.
waazzupppp
New member
And my point goes back to the fact that Windows Phone has been making devices OBSOLETE within 6 months, not a particular carrier or manufacturer. I should just drop this as arguing this is just becoming stupid, but I'll justfy my post one last time.The dates I posted were the available to purchase dates, not a 'magical one pulled from some website' or an announcement date. Not to get personal, but since you already did, this leads me into what MSFTisMIA stated in his post...
1) Those were the published release dates of the devices - not an announcement date...
2) Given your reasoning for the Titan 1 vs. Titan 2 dumping, T-Mobile could make the claim that that the 810 does not work with their LTE network so it got dumped for the 925 - same story and that did NOT work out well for Titan 1 users at all.
3) When you start your T-Mobile replacement phone chart, you are all over with manufacturers replacing each other's devices. That's not how this works - that's like saying the iPhone 5 replaced the Galaxy S III. Looking at the first generation of Windows Phones isn't too smart as they were all a one year device. Microsoft's original plan was to ride hardware for a year, then provide updates through year two. With the scrapping of WP7, things had to change though. So let's go through the T-Mobile progression...
Nokia: Lumia 710 (January 2012) - Windows Phone 8 (June 2012) - Lumia 810 (November 2012) - Lumia 521 (May 2013) - Lumia 925 (August 2013) - about every 6 months
HTC: HD2 (November 2009) - HD7 (November 2010) - HTC Radar (November 2011) - HTC 8X (December 2012) - one per year
Samsung: No WP devices available
4) Now on to your Samsung comparisons... You just said an AT&T device was replaced by a Verizon Wireless device... Focus 2 vs. ATIV Odyssey? Lost me on that one? Mine was the direct chain that AT&T used.
5) The EOS or 1020 or whatever they are going to call it will be on AT&T exclusively in the US for 90-180 days, just like the 900 and 920 before it. This is where you have to count AT&T's convoluted products because they are the premiere WP carrier in the US. They get the most phones and get them first.
Now, back to topic - why is this important? Well, because it shows the hardware pattern is updating on 6 month intervals for Nokia and 12 months for HTC. It's sad that these devices are going the way of the dinosaur so quickly, but so far, WP8 devices have been getting updates, so I don't see how that is going to change. We will see an update when Nokia releases one that T-Mobile is happy with.
MSFTisMIA
New member
Let’s clear up a few things from my post here. (this is the full version I didn’t post because the WP Central app was acting up on my 810.)
On AT&T, as the "preferred WP partner", they have had the ability in the US to release multiple handsets. This is why using them is very tricky in the argument. I still stand by this.
In my initial post in the first half, I was trying to address hardware succession with Samsung as the example and that was why I included the Odyssey, a VZW phone on the list. Below should clear this up.
Let’s adjust the Samsung side of things for a second here. If you go back and research, the Focus 2 was not aimed at replacing the OG Focus or the Focus S. You'd be more in line to say it replaced the Focus Flash. So for the sake of things, Samsung's two main Wp lines to this point have been:
OG Focus to Focus S to Ativ S;
Focus Flash to Focus 2 to Odyssey.
That makes more sense based on the positioning of the market and the hardware used. The first line was aimed at high end, indeed the OG Focus was a high end handset. Focus flash was the mid range. Now, this bit with the odyssey. It makes the list in my analysis because of the lines I just described and this - AT&T won't touch it because the 820 is a better fit for themed mid-range line they were aiming at. Based on how AT&T planned to handle WP8, they would be able to sell more 820s and get them at a better deal than what Samsung may give for the Odyssey. Again, this is my opinion based on the fact that the carriers KNOW WHAT IS COMING PHONE WISE FROMS OEMS IN ADVANCE. It has been documented it takes at least 6 months to get these things to market – you contacts and experience can confirm or deny this for us too.
Looking at the following track record:
Nokia – 900 (announced January 2012, launch April 2012)
920 (announced in Sept 2012, launch Nov 2012)
The EOS should follow this if it is the main flagship– announced this month, launch 2-4 months later, putting it between September –November 2013. This would allow Nokia to tweak the specs if the EOS is launched with GDR3.
That line is from 900>920 8 months (new OS as Nokia came to the WP party LATE in its WP7 release); 900>EOS 10 months >1 year. Clearly, this is not “every 6 months”. Your line of including WP8 announcement as the break carries less weight because Nokia was the last OEM to make a WP7 handset, so of course, their initial turnaround time from WP7 to WP8 is shorter.
Looking at Nokia’s mid range, focusing on T-Mobile:
Lumia 710 (announced Dec 2011, launch Jan 2012)
Lumia 810 (announced October 2012, launched Nov 2012, EOL – April 2013)
Lumia 521 (announced Feb 2013, launch April 2013)
So we went on t-mo 11 months from 710 to 810, yet 5 months from 810 to 521 (a low end model due to 810 sales).
Globally (from the Nokia mid-range):
Lumia 800 (announced – Oct 2011, launch Nov 2011)
Lumia 820 (announced - Sept 2012, launch Nov 2012)
That’s 1 year from lumia 800 to lumia 820. Due to overall sales, I expect that the successor here may be launched this fall as well.
HTC will stick to the 1 year cycle we both outlined. The 8X successor won’t and shouldn’t come from them until GDR3 with the 1080P and increased size and quad core support.
So will Samsung, if the goal is to launch 1 device which is the higher line I outlined – from Focus > Focus S > Ativ S…one year differences each. They will do the same thing as HTC.
My point is you cannot use Nokia, who got to WP LATE and is filling out their Lumia range with both different devices and the carrier variant commitments as a wide barometer as ALL WP OEMS are doing the same thing. The carrier variants is hardest because of the exclusivity used. I chose to use the 900 to 920 to EOS (if the EOS is the flagship) because those are the flagship and thus globally available phones (yes the AT&T exclusive counts here in the global mix as they are the preferred US partner and will be in the "global" launch). If you bring in the 928/925, you have to wait until when the T-Mobile version of the EOS gets to them, which is probably this time next year. The situation with the 810 and 521 are better gauges because they are more readily available variants because THEY WEREN'T THE EXCLUSIVE FLAGSHIPS. Remember, HTC and Samsung still make WP models. Nokia is not at a point with WP like Samsung and Apple are where they can launch 1 mid range, 1 low end, and 1 high end uniformly to all carriers. They are still building the brand have to go the carrier exclusive route until all their Lumias combined – in particularly the high end models, sell well enough (like the SGS2 variants for Samsung).
b3rni3703
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b3rni3703
New member
Just incase no one has read them... Just throwing this link out here... other WP8 including 810 will get Amber updates despite of EOL sometime this summer (depending on operator "carrier" approval)... thoughts???
Nokia's "Lumia Amber" software update in detail
Nokia's "Lumia Amber" software update in detail
MSFTisMIA
New member
Some people here think we will get the update, some people (including myself) think we won't. We just have to wait and see...
metalchick719
New member
I'm shocked that website actually has the 810 listed as one of the Lumia phones expected to get the Amber update. I've since switched from my 810 to a Rogers 920, but I will certainly keep my fingers crossed that the 810 does get the update.
smurfercom
New member
Although Nokia released this statement in May and listed the 810 it still comes down to the carriers approval to release the updates. This is where it's all screwed up and why the 810 keeps getting denied by tmob. What the 810 didn't get since Jan. LTE got denied by tmob, FW: 1308, 1314, 1316, never got pushed out to the 810 by tmob. Now with GDR2 and Amber around the corner and no new statements released by tmob this is looking like a train wreck for 810 owners no doubt. With MSFT announcing all Lumia Windows 8 phones will get the updates but tmob keeps denying the release it seems pretty futile... as long as the carriers are in control we are all screwed in the end. They really need to get the carriers out of the picture period! OS updates and FW releases should be done by Nokia and MSFT. When I first jumped onboard with the 810 I seriously thought that was the way it was going to be done, I thought it would work just like Blackberry updates, cooking ROM's from the manufacturer and updating OS's through MSFT.
So regardless of advertising 18 months phone support from MSFT and Nokia it doesn't mean diddly when it's carrier controlled, especially when it's tmob.
It's interesting legal speak but where Microsoft gets itself into trouble is releasing an OS that is not functioning properly. Other storage and the music disaster are two examples. One would think they open themselves up to a class action lawsuit at that point.
b3rni3703
New member
True, i'm debating whether i should also get an unlock 920 just incase 810 doesn't get it.. i too will be crossing fingers... as far as we know, i think its safe that 920 will be around for a longer period considering it is one of the flagships..
b3rni3703
New member
-sigh- if it wasn't for the "carrier / operator) cockblocking issue, we 810's wouldn't have this problem... i really like the device since day one and it does everything like the 920.. pretty solid rugged device and i've even run around with it in the rain (inside of an armband protector ofcourse) and has stellar battery life.. my only dilemma is that i got my eye on this unlock 920 for a steal and i'm wondering whether i should get it, but also don't see having 2 WP8 devices.. maybe use the 810 as a back up?? -shrugs-
b3rni3703
New member
i agree - they do need to acquire better os developers.. need to get that "OTHER STORAGE" situated STAT!...
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