The elephant in the room: Lumia 830 vs. Moto G (2nd Gen)

[psoham777]

Sanity and partisanship can coexist☺

My point was not that. My point was why do you think he'll understand?

 

[worldspy99]

Sanity and partisanship can coexist☺

I should have added - perhaps not in this case!

 

[lorenzattractor]

Personally, I think that a more obvious comparison would be the 730/735 with the Moto G. I mean, the 730/735 has more in common with the Moto G than the 830 and the pricing should be similar between those two. Although, I do agree with the 830 being overpriced. $300 sounds about right.

 

[psoham777]

I should have added - perhaps not in this case!

I agree. This is a special case.

 

[psoham777]

Personally, I think that a more obvious comparison would be the 730/735 with the Moto G. I mean, the 730/735 has more in common with the Moto G than the 830 and the pricing should be similar between those two. Although, I do agree with the 830 being overpriced. $300 sounds about right.

Here 730 launched at $240. That's a very good pricing. Also due to high pricing of 830, here snapdeal is providing a special $100 off on 830 if you buy it using WP app.

 

[Bodeanicus]

But the Moto G has better specs! </sarcasm>

It has the same specs and performance at half the price.

 

[nemo7]

If the price is too high than go and buy the Moto G ok!! You talking always about specs. What abut features , Updates and build quality?? The Lumia has a lot better build quality with metal frame and pure view Camera !!!, And if you don't have any problem with Google collecting ur Data than go to Android and don't complain, thanks.

Your life, your choice.

 

[Chris_Kez]

It has the same specs and performance at half the price.

The 830 has been out for a few days. How can you say they have the same performance? Have we seen side by side comparisons of screen quality, photos, video, gaming, battery life, network/WiFi/browser speeds? Have we seen how smoothly they run their respective OS's? You can't just run through a couple of sections of a spec sheet and simply declare that two devices are the same.

 

[Bodeanicus]

I can make an educated guess, considering they're the same phone, apart from the camera. I own a Lumia 822, and I've played with someone else's Moto G extensively. The Moto G is fast. It doesn't lag. Those days are over, especially with ART vs. Dalvik. Battery life is practically identical with normal usage. The average consumer will not be able to tell the difference the two, performance wise. They will, however, notice the disparity between the price tags and app ecosystems. Microsoft has all but killed the 830 before it has been released. It's the Surface all over again.

 

[nemo7]

I can make an educated guess, considering they're the same phone, apart from the camera. I own a Lumia 822, and I've played with someone else's Moto G extensively. The Moto G is fast. It doesn't lag. Those days are over, especially with ART vs. Dalvik. Battery life is practically identical with normal usage. The average consumer will not be able to tell the difference the two, performance wise. They will, however, notice the disparity between the price tags and app ecosystems. Microsoft has all but killed the 830 before it has been released. It's the Surface all over again.

Than don't complain and buy the Moto G plz.
I will buy the Lumia because its worth the price.

 

[Bodeanicus]

And that's why Windows Phone will never be above 10% global market share. Microsoft's most loyal customers won't call them out on their idiotic marketing decision. Microsoft has zero chance if being relevant in mobile computing with their current strategy.

 

[salmanahmad]

We are talking about the Moto G and the Lumia 830, way to keep the thread relevant.

Despite the thread being primarily about the Moto G and the 830, the OP did mention phones that we're priced close to the 830 and still provided a better "affordable flagship" experience.

I did the same and mentioned two more phones that we're priced lower than the 830 and had better specifications.



The main reason why I decided to pitch in was because Microsoft claimed that the 830 was supposed to be an "affordable flagship" and apart from the camera I see nothing that is truly "flagship" material, and we'll still have to reserve judgement on the camera.

Again, I didn't bash Windows Phone or the 830 in general but it's a phone that is priced and marketed improperly.

I just added to the OP's list of other possible devices that are closed similar to the 830.

& why do you think he would understand that?

I know that you guys do hate me a lot, but read my explanation up there.

 

[psoham777]

Despite the thread being primarily about the Moto G and the 830, the OP did mention phones that we're priced close to the 830 and still provided a better "affordable flagship" experience.

I did the same and mentioned two more phones that we're priced lower than the 830 and had better specifications.

View attachment 83210

The main reason why I decided to pitch in was because Microsoft claimed that the 830 was supposed to be an "affordable flagship" and apart from the camera I see nothing that is truly "flagship" material, and we'll still have to reserve judgement on the camera.

Again, I didn't bash Windows Phone or the 830 in general but it's a phone that is priced and marketed improperly.

I just added to the OP's list of other possible devices that are closed similar to the 830.



I know that you guys do hate me a lot, but read my explanation up there.

Well you won't understand us! Believe me. You don't know how much popular you are here at WPCENTRAL....

 

[salmanahmad]

Well you won't understand us! Believe me. You don't know how much popular you are here at WPCENTRAL....

Haha ye, after the recent ban I've got I guess that indulging in a flame war isn't the best way to convince others.

Again, I'll apologise if I've been unfair to WP and if I've said something hurtful to you guys.

On the bright side though if the Windows 10 improves on graphics quality of games and general performance, the 830 will be more worthy of being called an "affordable flagship" because the lack a more powerful SOC will be met with a more optimized OS and a better bang for the buck gaming experience.

 

[D M C]

I agreed with OP.
L830 is overpriced phone.
Just few buck and you will get Moto X a true flagship with lot powerful processor and features.
L830 wouldn't stand a chance against Moto X.

I think L830 will be biggest failure in Lumia family.

But L730...well that's a different story. Very good pricing
I am also thinking to buy but I don't like selfies phone.

A phone without camera is totally ok for me.

 

[Chris_Kez]

I can make an educated guess, considering they're the same phone, apart from the camera. I own a Lumia 822, and I've played with someone else's Moto G extensively. The Moto G is fast. It doesn't lag. Those days are over, especially with ART vs. Dalvik. Battery life is practically identical with normal usage. The average consumer will not be able to tell the difference the two, performance wise. They will, however, notice the disparity between the price tags and app ecosystems. Microsoft has all but killed the 830 before it has been released. It's the Surface all over again.

Let me say up-front that I think a ~$400 launch price will hurt the Lumia 830, and I agree that lots of people will do a quick spec-comparison with the Moto G 2 and wonder why the 830 is so expensive.

That said, I can't just blindly accept your premise-- based on a comparison of the 822 and the Moto G-- that there will be no appreciable difference between the 830 and the Moto G. The 830 is not the 822. Are we really going to just wave away any possible differences in camera quality, screen quality, build quality or battery life? Then why would anyone ever buy a better phone than the Moto G? If it runs fast and lag-free, then what's the point of spending more for 2GB or 3GB of RAM? If LTE doesn't matter than why does anyone bother?

All I'm trying to say is let's not presume to know how these devices will ultimately compare. For all we know, Nokia could have sourced crappy panels and inefficient battery cells, fumbled the firmware, used b-grade optics or used cheaper OIS. Maybe they sacrificed some shell strength by making it so light and it will be prone to creaking or cracking. These are all things we just can't know until there are lots of these out in the wild. These are all real-world potentials that would radically alter one's evaluation of a device. People love iPhones and they're consistently top performers even though other phones have "better specs". They're just high-quality devices that would go for a premium even if you shaved off some of the "Apple tax".

p.s. I also think the Surface devices were over-priced. Maybe not the SP3 so much, but definitely the prior models. But as with phones, we have to remember that while MS can afford to lose money on devices their OEM partners cannot. If Microsoft undercuts their partners by selling millions of devices below cost then those partners go away.

 

[colinkiama]

Lol Imreally don't think the 830 should be compared with a moto G it should really be compared with an iPhone. They are both underpowered phones that run well on their own platforms and are priced high. Even though the iPhone 6 has a lot more features than the 830, from the spec sheet alone they seem similar. Very similar.

 

[D M C]

Let me say up-front that I think a ~$400 launch price will hurt the Lumia 830, and I agree that lots of people will do a quick spec-comparison with the Moto G 2 and wonder why the 830 is so expensive.

That said, I can't just blindly accept your premise-- based on a comparison of the 822 and the Moto G-- that there will be no appreciable difference between the 830 and the Moto G. The 830 is not the 822. Are we really going to just wave away any possible differences in camera quality, screen quality, build quality or battery life? Then why would anyone ever buy a better phone than the Moto G? If it runs fast and lag-free, then what's the point of spending more for 2GB or 3GB of RAM? If LTE doesn't matter than why does anyone bother?

All I'm trying to say is let's not presume to know how these devices will ultimately compare. For all we know, Nokia could have sourced crappy panels and inefficient battery cells, fumbled the firmware, used b-grade optics or used cheaper OIS. Maybe they sacrificed some shell strength by making it so light and it will be prone to creaking or cracking. These are all things we just can't know until there are lots of these out in the wild. These are all real-world potentials that would radically alter one's evaluation of a device. People love iPhones and they're consistently top performers even though other phones have "better specs". They're just high-quality devices that would go for a premium even if you shaved off some of the "Apple tax".

p.s. I also think the Surface devices were over-priced. Maybe not the SP3 so much, but definitely the prior models. But as with phones, we have to remember that while MS can afford to lose money on devices their OEM partners cannot. If Microsoft undercuts their partners by selling millions of devices below cost then those partners go away.

Aren't you are forgetting the most important party?

Consumer.

Other than WP fan no one gonna buy L830.

MS need to decide who comes first consumers and OEM partners.

 

[Chris_Kez]

You forgot to mention Nexus 5 and OnePlusOne.

These phones are either being sold at a loss (Nexus 5) or for no profit (OnePlusOne). Though the Nexus 5 gained some general popularity it is still not sold directly by AT&T or Verizon, and it gets almost no marketing support. The Nexus program was designed to seed the Android dev community with reference devices. The OnePlusOne is largely unknown outside of Android enthusiast community and is in very, very short supply (invitation only until recently). As with the Nexus, this phone is being used strategically to build awareness. If they can slowly ramp up manufacturing they may make a small profit within a few years; unless they use the notoriety to springboard the launch of a better phone at a price closer to normal levels.

Microsoft doesn't have the luxury of dozens of committed hardware partners. They cannot just flood the tiny WP market with under-priced phones and expect manufacturers to happily give up sales and profits. And while they seem jealous of Apple sometimes, I don't think there is any real interest in Redmond in going it alone as the sole maker of WP devices.

 

[Chris_Kez]

MS need to decide who comes first consumers or OEM partners.

That's easy. OEM partners. MS cannot live on income from consumers. They need dozens and dozens of manufacturing partners to push out devices of every shape and size to every corner of the world. They're in a very delicate position with Lumia phones and Surface tablets. They need to push just enough to show what can be done, but not risk sucking up too much of the business. They're not a huge manufacturer like Samsung. They're a software company that dabbles in hardware. They're not Apple. They'll never own the whole process end to end; Windows is simply too large. And it is very, very difficult to make the kinds of profits that Apple does on the hardware side. Actually it is essentially impossible given that no one else does it.

So, yeah- they need OEMs and they need Enterprise. Obviously they need some footprint among consumers and in mobile given the whole BYOD movement and the risk that the next generation could grow up without having used Windows. But that is a secondary market for them. What they really need to do is keep improving Windows Phone software, get it to work more seamlessly with laptops and desktops, and work like hell to get more developers on board. If they can do that, I'd bet they'd be happy to have a much smaller role in making phones.