02-03-2012 10:50 AM
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  1. athix's Avatar
    Good discussion O_O , my point is this....

    Nokia is probably nicest overall WP device out there, that said, I totally agree about the failure of storage size (and no SD card) of WP devices. Luckily I have a focus that has a MEMORY CARD SLOT! Total Fail Nokia!

    But wait.....my boss and everyone else in marketing seems to be correct about this CLOUD stuff. Despite my stiff opposition I am seeing everything go to the cloud and there will soon be no need for onboard storage of any kind. But we are not there yet, couple more years.

    Not sure exactly how I feel about wifi cooking my brains from all directions but eventually as long as your little electronic device is powered on, it will be connected to an internet that will stream your songs. End of story. :'(
    01-17-2012 10:01 AM
  2. selfcreation's Avatar
    OH YEAH!! nokia is OBVIOUSLY failing!! ROLF

    Nokia Lumia 800 sales are strong, gives Windows Phone a needed boost

    and its not even as good as the 900..... so argue all you want , statistic prove otherwise.
    01-17-2012 10:21 AM
  3. nyc_rock's Avatar
    OH YEAH!! nokia is OBVIOUSLY failing!! ROLF

    Nokia Lumia 800 sales are strong, gives Windows Phone a needed boost

    and its not even as good as the 900..... so argue all you want , statistic prove otherwise.
    Do they?

    Lumia a loser says Euro Nokia research - SlashGear
    01-17-2012 11:15 AM
  4. nyc_rock's Avatar
    actually they are not FAILING .. they already FAILED.. and now they are growing again!! they actually started gaining market shares. and making money....


    and you obviously have no idea how company work. if Nokia would of came out with a HUGE phone that cost 900$ ( 300$ on contract ) after FAILING SO HARD . would you buy a 900$ phone from a company that almost bankrupted? LOL. **** NO! ..




    hmm.. YES you DO!!!! or else your just lining your self up to FAIL again .. WP is a NEW OS... most people are still skeptical about WP or have NO idea what it can do... so why risk paying 900$ on a OS you might not like.. i know i wouldn't and most people as well.

    they dint have expendable storage cause WP OS doesn't support it!! HELLO!
    it caused more problems then rights... How many SD cards did i get before i found one that actually worked fine with my phone ??!! so after FAILING!! why would they risk an other FAILURE?!

    as for the Duel-core and HD screen: WP OS doesn't support that... so Nokia couldn't of made it EVEN IF they wanted to.

    not to mention WP has ZERO need for duel-core.. and EVEN IF the next WP have Duel-core .. its still gona be a full year before we start seeing WP apps/games/OS actually take advantage of it. every thing we have now would probably cost phones to run slower if we had duel-core..... ( until apps/games are programed to work with duel-core processors ) .... like when we got duel-core on PC the first time ... games and programs that dint support it ( witch was all of them ) actually ran SLOWER. duels cores with 2ghz ( 1ghz per core) would actuality only run as a 1GHZ until the apps are programed/updated to work as multithreaded applications.

    as for the memory .. again . why make a 64G , 900$ phone ..when you can make a 16G, 600$ phone? and actually have MORE chance to sell the cheaper phone ( witch is working BTW )

    How many people by 100,000$ ferrari cause they have 500HP .... and how many people by 10,000$ Honda civics with 100HP? .... what is the smartest business move you thinking after almost losing business?? obviously the CIVIC is the best things to sell to make quick easy $$ to regain growth in your company.

    ``Could it have been the phone that really stakes WP as the complete platform? You bet. Did it? `` YES, they did the most they could do Business wise and as far as specs go they did the MOST they could with in WP Operating systems requirements.



    * man i could almost write a book with all theses WALLS OF TEXT*. gona call it.: How others give you headaches.

    $900 for a phone? What are you talking about? The 64gb Iphone 4S is 399 subsidised. The 32gb is 299. Verizon is selling the rezound with a $100 pair of headphones for 299.

    I never said that WP needed dual core or HD screens. I said Android would be releasing those devices. Like it or not, WP will be compared to other platforms and the hardware that exists on those other platforms. And you said your Samsung supports SD cards which means that it can support SD cards. So Nokia could have figured it out. Which, by the way, would have been a huge win.

    And by the way, what are you so angry about? Is this Stephen Elop?
    01-17-2012 11:22 AM
  5. selfcreation's Avatar
    lol reading that article .. YES they do!! LOL!! .... they got 2% of all sells in 1month? LOL on a BRAND new OS that no one trusted?! lol .. think you miss read that the blog .. if you read more into it you`ll notice its positive.

    ALSO!! this article was written BEFORE! sales figures for the Lumia 800 where even released. !! lol this article has NO Grounds... and cant be reliable..

    Quot from the guy who wrote the article :

    * We’ve asked Nokia for a comment and will update as soon as the company gets back to us. Official sales figures for the Lumia 800 are yet to be released. **

    then NOKIA says:

    ** “We have only started our journey to regain smartphone leadership, but we are pleased with the early results. The Lumia 800 is getting good traction in all six European markets where it has already launched. Initial feedback from India, Hong Kong, Russia, Singapore and Taiwan — where the Lumia 800 starting selling this week — has been very encouraging” ****

    dunno what you got from his .. to me that says that NOKIA is happy with its growth and is doing good.


    and gain this article compare NOKIA Wp to .. ALL OTHER Phones / OS.... not just WP like the article i showed... 2% of all phones/os are NOKIA Wp.. thats actually AMAZING!! and only in 6 country!! LOL..

    thanks for helping me reinforce my point :D ;)
    01-17-2012 11:28 AM
  6. selfcreation's Avatar
    $900 for a phone? What are you talking about? The 64gb Iphone 4S is 399 subsidised. The 32gb is 299. Verizon is selling the rezound with a $100 pair of headphones for 299.

    I never said that WP needed dual core or HD screens. I said Android would be releasing those devices. Like it or not, WP will be compared to other platforms and the hardware that exists on those other platforms. And you said your Samsung supports SD cards which means that it can support SD cards. So Nokia could have figured it out. Which, by the way, would have been a huge win.

    And by the way, what are you so angry about? Is this Stephen Elop?
    first of all im not angry!!! LOL ... far from it ....


    look at the pic and tell me the Iphone 4S is not 869$.... full price.. no term ( look at pic ) all Iphone prices are on it. its 369`95 on a 36month term WITH a DATA plan.... mind you we also have a 50$ promo now so take off 50$ off the price u see.

    and Verizon 64G is at 399$ on a 2 year.. btw.. ( so Nokia had a 64G .. you still think it be cheap? )

    . http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=V-ZVIc3H



    regarding the SD ... yeah my phone has it .. but MS WP doesn't support it .. that's a know fact... do your research...

    yes they could have made a SD card slot .. and would of created allot of bugs and problems and would not of help reinforce there comeback into the mobile world..... specially with an other reason for clients to complain ... and that would of been a UGE LOST! ... NOKIA did the SMART businesses decision here .. end of story .. WHY RISK IT ALL when you can guaranty a solid product?
    01-17-2012 11:44 AM
  7. nyc_rock's Avatar
    first of all im not angry!!! LOL ... far from it ....


    look at the pic and tell me the Iphone 4S is not 869$.... full price.. no term ( look at pic ) all Iphone prices are on it. its 369`95 on a 36month term WITH a DATA plan.... mind you we also have a 50$ promo now so take off 50$ off the price u see.

    and Verizon 64G is at 399$ on a 2 year.. btw.. ( so Nokia had a 64G .. you still think it be cheap? )

    . http://forums.windowscentral.com/e?l...token=8_H3Bz1f

    Click to view quoted image


    regarding the SD ... yeah my phone has it .. but MS WP doesn't support it .. that's a know fact... do your research...

    yes they could have made a SD card slot .. and would of created allot of bugs and problems and would not of help reinforce there comeback into the mobile world..... specially with an other reason for clients to complain ... and that would of been a UGE LOST! ... NOKIA did the SMART businesses decision here .. end of story .. WHY RISK IT ALL when you can guaranty a solid product?
    The iphone is a special circumstance. Almost every high end phone in the US is $549-649 at the respective carriers.

    I know that WP has had issues with SD cards. That doesnt mean it's acceptable. Your's works. As I have said over and over and over, Nokia should have figured this out. It would have really differentiated thier product. With the "special" relationship with Microsoft, this should not be such an issue. Android phones do it. Its not some 21st century technology.

    Here's another article:

    Nokia's 'last-ditch' Windows phone stumbles - sales crawl behind Androids, iPhones and even BlackBerries | Mail Online

    I guess that any press account of sales that does not fit your belief is worthless. And your article was dated before the one I linked to.
    Premium1 likes this.
    01-17-2012 11:56 AM
  8. selfcreation's Avatar
    The iphone is a special circumstance.???

    LMAO! no its not .. Nexus (android) sells at 649$... and has 16G .... if it was at 64G it would also sell at 869$ (more or less) just like if Nokia had made a 64G phone...price would also go up 200$+

    As I have said over and over and over, Nokia should have figured this out.?

    LMAO! its not NOKIA its MS... LOL... how can NOKIA figure out something that they have no access too? hahaha.. its not a problem with the PHONE.. its a problem with the OS.

    i don't think you understand what the relationship is between NOKIA and MS... its not fixing issues or hardware... its exclusivity. ( like apps/games and what not... )

    you dont just push the ON bottom and expect every thing to be perfect for EVERY ONE...


    i tryed to inform you guys on how things ACTUALLY WORK int he REAL WORLD.. but obvious you stuck with you own mentality of how things work ...



    PS @ DAVE! .. i dont understand how you have left this thread open for so long .. normal this thing would of been closed a long time ago!!.. ah well ;)
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 01-17-2012 at 01:29 PM.
    01-17-2012 12:15 PM
  9. Premium1's Avatar
    The iphone is a special circumstance.???

    LMAO! no its not .. Nexus (android) sells at 649$... and has 16G .... if it was at 64G it would also sell at 869$ (more or less) just like if Nokia had made a 64G phone...price would also go up 200$+

    Actually only the gsm has 16 gb, the verizon nexus has 32 for $299/$649 no contract.
    01-17-2012 12:53 PM
  10. selfcreation's Avatar
    299$ for the 32g

    GSM 16G is at 159`95......

    thanks for helping me prove my point LOL. en extra 150$ for +16G

    more memory = more $$ = bad idea for a recuperating company trying to make sales.
    01-17-2012 01:29 PM
  11. Premium1's Avatar
    299$ for the 32g

    GSM 16G is at 159`95......

    thanks for helping me prove my point LOL. en extra 150$ for +16G

    more memory = more $$ = bad idea for a recuperating company trying to make sales.
    verizon always charges more for their lte phones. It will be interesting to see what sprint and at&t charge and then you can prove your point that more memory will cost more. I think it is always a good idea to offer more choices maybe not 64gb right off the bat but at least 16 and 32gb.
    01-17-2012 01:45 PM
  12. selfcreation's Avatar
    verizon always charges more for their lte phones. It will be interesting to see what sprint and at&t charge and then you can prove your point that more memory will cost more. I think it is always a good idea to offer more choices maybe not 64gb right off the bat but at least 16 and 32gb.
    i dont even need to prove apoint its a know fact.. lol....

    and obviously they charge more for LTE phone . LMAO!! thats not even the question .. LTE chips cost more the make hence why its cost more...( so do CDMA chips)

    More memory also cost more to make hence why the Phone cost more..

    Do you buy a 500Gig hard drive at the same price as a terabyte(1000gig)? **** NO!

    Do you buy a 8Gig SD card at the same price as a 32Gig SD card? lol ...

    this is * BASIC ECONOMY 101.!! you obviously dont work in the electronic industry.. and if you do.... well...... no comment.
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 01-17-2012 at 02:15 PM.
    01-17-2012 02:10 PM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    FYI... Nokia does have access to full WP source code. They're the only OEM with the access, and permission, to alter and customize this code.

    With that said, OS development is NOT EASY. The very nature of how WP sees storage makes it difficult to work with consumer SD cards. And unless Nokia wants to completely break compatibility, they really can't do anything about it.

    If WP devices start selling like hot cakes, then perhaps a company like SanDisk could be convinced to offer consumer cards tested and rated for fast random data access as opposed to sequential data access. But until then, there's not enough money to make it worth it.

    So it would be a bad business decision to put expandable storage in Nokia WP devices at this time.

    As for a 32 GB version of the 900... I believe that a very connected poster here confirmed that it's on the horizon.
    But it just makes business sense to lead with the unit that would likely have higher sales because it is able to hit a price point that extensive market research has told them will get the best results. Right now, that price point can be hit with a 16 GB version.

    On another note, I think people forget (or never knew) why Nokia "failed" in the US. It wasn't because of bad products. It was because they weren't playing ball with the carriers and not giving in to their demands. So carriers stopped subsidizing Nokia phones. And then stopped carrying them in their stores. Nokia pretty much was selling phones unsubsidized and not in corporate stores.
    selfcreation likes this.
    01-17-2012 02:27 PM
  14. selfcreation's Avatar
    FYI... Nokia does have access to full WP source code. They're the only OEM with the access, and permission, to alter and customize this code.

    With that said, OS development is NOT EASY. The very nature of how WP sees storage makes it difficult to work with consumer SD cards. And unless Nokia wants to completely break compatibility, they really can't do anything about it..............................................

    THANK GOD!!! some one that understands!!! was starting to get worried.
    01-17-2012 02:33 PM
  15. nyc_rock's Avatar
    299$ for the 32g

    GSM 16G is at 159`95......

    thanks for helping me prove my point LOL. en extra 150$ for +16G

    more memory = more $$ = bad idea for a recuperating company trying to make sales.
    159, on Bell for instance, is with a 3 year contract. So assume 199 with a two year (us friendly contract). So the extra 16gb of expandable memory is 100 bucks. Same as Apple. No news there.

    Nokia could have led with an LTE 16 gb version for 199 and an LTE 32 gb for 299.

    That would have been an awesome move for them. They would have launched a product that no other OEM offers along with the Nokia apps exclusive to them. That is what they should have done. Nokia still has the pockets to produce both versions. You produce less of the 32 and more of the 16.
    01-17-2012 03:28 PM
  16. mprice86's Avatar
    As a close to the heated debate above, the "lumia failing" data comes from a survey of 456 who intended to buy a smartphone in the next month. It fails to mention that they're comparing it to the likes of the iPhone 4S and the Galaxy S2. The iPhone promotional campaign has been running non-stop since 2007. The S2 has been out since May 2011 and has been promoted relentlessly since then also.

    Given that the Lumia had been promoted for about a month prior to launch (maybe less actually) and at launch had no word of mouth to be passed on I'd say anything aproaching the 1mil mark is a good start. It's the start of a whole new brand up against two of the most recognisably branded phones in the world (and that's before you mention any of the 20 android handsets HTC pushed out last year, or any of the other Samsung devices. Or Motorolla. Or LG. Or Sony Eriksson.)

    EDIT: As Se1fcr3ation rightly says, capturing 2% of all phone sales in 6 markets is pretty amazing for a whole new brand/product line.

    By the end of the year the Lumia name will be everywhere, brand recognition takes time to build up. People trust the Nokia brand; the company never went away, they were just pretty quiet for a long time. They're making some serious noise now though.
    Last edited by mprice86; 01-17-2012 at 03:36 PM.
    01-17-2012 03:29 PM
  17. nyc_rock's Avatar
    As a close to the heated debate above, the "lumia failing" data comes from a survey of 456 who intended to buy a smartphone in the next month. It fails to mention that they're comparing it to the likes of the iPhone 4S and the Galaxy S2. The iPhone promotional campaign has been running non-stop since 2007. The S2 has been out since May 2011 and has been promoted relentlessly since then also.

    Given that the Lumia had been promoted for about a month prior to launch (maybe less actually) and at launch had no word of mouth to be passed on I'd say anything aproaching the 1mil mark is a good start. It's the start of a whole new brand up against two of the most recognisably branded phones in the world (and that's before you mention any of the 20 android handsets HTC pushed out last year, or any of the other Samsung devices. Or Motorolla. Or LG. Or Sony Eriksson.)

    EDIT: As Se1fcr3ation rightly says, capturing 2% of all phone sales in 6 markets is pretty amazing for a whole new brand/product line.

    By the end of the year the Lumia name will be everywhere, brand recognition takes time to build up. People trust the Nokia brand; the company never went away, they were just pretty quiet for a long time. They're making some serious noise now though.

    The reason why the Galaxy S2 was such a huge success is becuase it was the best smartphone released in 2011. It had the best specs and it performed incredibily well. It seperated itself from the pack. The Iphone is the Iphone so not much more needs to be said.

    The Lumia, from a spec standpoint is not better than any other phone being released on the WP platform. As a matter of fact, the Titan 2 will have a 16 MP main camera which is double what anyone else has. And who knows what will be announced at MWC next month. By the time the Lumia is realesed, it could actually be a mid range offering.
    Last edited by garment69; 01-17-2012 at 04:16 PM.
    Premium1 likes this.
    01-17-2012 04:00 PM
  18. selfcreation's Avatar
    159, on Bell for instance, is with a 3 year contract. So assume 199 with a two year (us friendly contract). So the extra 16gb of expandable memory is 100 bucks. Same as Apple. No news there.

    Nokia could have led with an LTE 16 gb version for 199 and an LTE 32 gb for 299.

    That would have been an awesome move for them. They would have launched a product that no other OEM offers along with the Nokia apps exclusive to them. That is what they should have done. Nokia still has the pockets to produce both versions. You produce less of the 32 and more of the 16.
    actually you cant get the NEXUS on anything else BUT a 3year term on BELL.

    no 2 years . no 1 year .. 3years or nothing..

    FYI: i work for BELL.



    keep in mind their is ALLOT of factors that come into play when your pricing a phone ..

    1. price plan
    2. country
    3.carrier
    4. Phone specs
    5. Carrier incentives/promotions
    6. exclusivity or not.
    7. popularity
    8. OS
    9: province/State market ( it changes )
    10: ARPU

    this list goes on . these are all things that the carrier marketing team looks at before deciding what the REBATE will be. and on what terms....

    the carrier pays full price for the phone (from Samsung ) in this case 649$ then they sit down and decide at what price they should sell it depending on the ARPU ( average revenue per unit ) that the company is implementing on there clients price plans...

    it sounds simple but ALLOT of factors go into pricing a cell phone.
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 01-17-2012 at 04:09 PM.
    01-17-2012 04:01 PM
  19. mprice86's Avatar
    actually you cant get the NEXUS on anything else BUT a 3year term on BELL.

    no 2 years . no 1 year .. 3years or nothing..

    FYI: i work for BELL.

    Click to view quoted image
    All I can say is I'm delighted there's no such thing as a 3 year contract here in the UK. That is a crazy amount of time to be locked into something. Especially a phone.
    01-17-2012 04:04 PM
  20. selfcreation's Avatar
    All I can say is I'm delighted there's no such thing as a 3 year contract here in the UK. That is a crazy amount of time to be locked into something. Especially a phone.
    yeah .. what do you guys have 18months i think?? AMERICA in general ( canada and USA ) suck when it comes to price plans and contracts :( we are way more expensive then the rest of the world.
    01-17-2012 04:11 PM
  21. nyc_rock's Avatar
    actually you cant get the NEXUS on anything else BUT a 3year term on BELL.

    no 2 years . no 1 year .. 3years or nothing..

    FYI: i work for BELL.

    Click to view quoted image


    keep in mind their is ALLOT of factors that come into play when your pricing a phone ..

    1. price plan
    2. country
    3.carrier
    4. Phone specs
    5. Carrier incentives/promotions
    6. exclusivity or not.
    7. popularity
    8. OS
    9: province/State market ( it changes )
    10: ARPU

    this list goes on . these are all things that the carrier marketing team looks at before deciding what the REBATE will be. and on what terms....

    the carrier pays full price for the phone (from Samsung ) in this case 649$ then they sit down and decide at what price they should sell it depending on the ARPU ( average revenue per unit ) that the company is implementing on there clients price plans...

    it sounds simple but ALLOT of factors go into pricing a cell phone.
    I am sure it is quite complicated however it has also become quite predictable. I would say, with reletive certainty, the Lumia will be 199 with a two year contract. The same price as the Samsung Skyrocket.
    01-17-2012 04:12 PM
  22. Premium1's Avatar
    i dont even need to prove apoint its a know fact.. lol....

    and obviously they charge more for LTE phone . LMAO!! thats not even the question .. LTE chips cost more the make hence why its cost more...( so do CDMA chips)

    More memory also cost more to make hence why the Phone cost more..

    Do you buy a 500Gig hard drive at the same price as a terabyte(1000gig)? **** NO!

    Do you buy a 8Gig SD card at the same price as a 32Gig SD card? lol ...

    this is * BASIC ECONOMY 101.!! you obviously dont work in the electronic industry.. and if you do.... well...... no comment.
    Clearly you have no clue how to read. Where did I say memory does not cost more? Please get off your high horse all I said was verizon charges more for their lte phones and if lte chips cost more why were at&t lte phones cheaper. BOOM! Please next time at least talk about what I mentioned. And to the iphone costing more, it cost more for 16gb/32 than comparable phones with 16gb of storage so that point is moot(off contract anyway)
    01-17-2012 05:08 PM
  23. selfcreation's Avatar
    verizon always charges more for their lte phones. It will be interesting to see what sprint and at&t charge and then you can prove your point that more memory will cost more. .
    You said it here.

    So many factors goes into pricing (if you read my post up top). Its not just the network chips.. BOOM haha .....


    Atlease I know what talking about..



    Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express
    Last edited by Se1fcr3ation; 01-17-2012 at 05:33 PM.
    01-17-2012 05:25 PM
  24. Premium1's Avatar
    You said it here.

    So many factors goes into pricing (if you read my post up top). Its not just the network chips.. BOOM haha .....


    Atlease I know what talking about..



    Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express
    You were the one who said lte and cdma chips cost more which if that is the case why is the iphone the same price on all carriers regardless of chip? Yeah a variety of things go into pricing it still doesn't change the fact that having choices for memory is always a good thing. But since one option is fine for you it must be fine for everyone.
    01-17-2012 05:49 PM
  25. Reflexx's Avatar
    If it made financial sense to offer 10 choices right away, we'd see 10 choices. If it made sense to see 2 choices right away, we'd see 2.

    But right now, it makes financial sense (based on exhaustive market research) to offer one memory choice at launch for the Lumia 900.

    Nokia isn't some tiny company that doesn't know what it's doing. They're not new to the business.
    01-17-2012 06:38 PM
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