04-03-2012 04:23 PM
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  1. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    I don't understand why you keep arguing with me. LTE is a completely different technology and until later this year, a different radio inside the phone. There IS drop off from LTE to H+ otherwise at&t could just update the software on the cell towers and have instant LTE countrywide (because upgrading from 3G to HSPA+ involves just a software upgrade on the towers and some adjustments to backhaul). Now obviously this isn't the case. At&t needs to install LTE towers all over the country to provide that service.
    Youre incorrect. There is no drop off from LTE to hspa+ its not a different radio. LTE wasn't implemented because the spectrum wasn't available or ready at the towers
    03-31-2012 10:10 PM
  2. jbrandonf's Avatar
    That's because the radios for 2G and 3G were two separate radios. The 3G/hspa+/LTE are the same radio! You can't shut it off. You will not get any signal. This is the reason that AT&T is closing/ changing the 2G edge spectrum to LTE. Its no longer needed and all the frequencies will be on one radio. At&ts lte is not like Verizon's which needs an lte radio and a cdma radio. All of those frequencies for at&t are on the same radio. Hence no switch. You can't compare the edge /3G situation to the current because of the old having two radios and the current having one. Any questions ?
    Change your APN settings! - xda-developers

    Shuts off LTE radio and as a result the user gets better battery life. AT&T seems to not want the switch there.
    03-31-2012 11:06 PM
  3. jbrandonf's Avatar
    Youre incorrect. There is no drop off from LTE to hspa+ its not a different radio. LTE wasn't implemented because the spectrum wasn't available or ready at the towers
    Tower Collocation Leases- Modifications for LTE Towers

    And that one will explain how it isn't just about spectrum and how actual equipment needs to be modified on the towers.

    EDUT: Doing some reading on LTE chips did help clarify a lot of misconceptions I had about GSM LTE radios. Can you provide some reading on how exactly the handoff works as you describe? I'm honestly curious where you're getting this info.
    Last edited by jbrandonf; 03-31-2012 at 11:36 PM.
    03-31-2012 11:28 PM
  4. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    Nothing you showed me I didn't say above. I said spectrum and tower build out. That doesn't change the fact that the radio in the phone is one radio. The apn is to activate the usage of the band in the radio. So you're not bringing anything to this table. You're talking to someone who helped build roms etc for Android I know how phones, radios, kernels etc etc all work and why so please try again
    04-01-2012 01:56 AM
  5. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    Change your APN settings! - xda-developers

    Shuts off LTE radio and as a result the user gets better battery life. AT&T seems to not want the switch there.
    Doesn't shut off the radio just changes the settings to not look for that band. Its a provisioning on which bands the phone will try to access. Thank you come again
    04-01-2012 01:58 AM
  6. cormasco's Avatar
    Can you confirm if Nokia music works in landscape mode? On my Arrive Zune music does not have landscape mode.
    04-01-2012 06:46 AM
  7. jbrandonf's Avatar
    Nothing you showed me I didn't say above. I said spectrum and tower build out. That doesn't change the fact that the radio in the phone is one radio. The apn is to activate the usage of the band in the radio. So you're not bringing anything to this table. You're talking to someone who helped build roms etc for Android I know how phones, radios, kernels etc etc all work and why so please try again
    "LTE wasn't implemented because the spectrum wasn't available or ready at the towers"
    Looks like you said only spectrum was the reason for LTE not being available. Nothing about building out towers. If you're right you're right but all I ask is for something to read.
    04-01-2012 07:20 AM
  8. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    "LTE wasn't implemented because the spectrum wasn't available or ready at the towers"
    Looks like you said only spectrum was the reason for LTE not being available. Nothing about building out towers. If you're right you're right but all I ask is for something to read.
    what do you think wasnt ready at the towers means?
    04-01-2012 08:14 AM
  9. jbrandonf's Avatar
    what do you think wasnt ready at the towers means?
    The lease wasn't signed for those frequencies, that's how you came off.

    spectrum/ˈspektrəm/
    Noun:

    1.A band of colors, as seen in a rainbow, produced by separation of the components of light by their different degrees of refraction...
    2.The entire range of WAVELENGTHS of electromagnetic radiation

    Spectrum isn't actually equipment.
    04-01-2012 09:00 AM
  10. tissotti's Avatar
    Can you confirm if Nokia music works in landscape mode? On my Arrive Zune music does not have landscape mode.
    Is Nokia Music app available at all in North America?
    04-01-2012 09:28 AM
  11. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    The lease wasn't signed for those frequencies, that's how you came off.

    spec·trum/spektrm/
    Noun:

    1.A band of colors, as seen in a rainbow, produced by separation of the components of light by their different degrees of refraction...
    2.The entire range of WAVELENGTHS of electromagnetic radiation

    Spectrum isn't actually equipment.
    I think you're misreading what I right
    04-01-2012 09:44 AM
  12. KCMike's Avatar
    Interesting info on the Lumia 900.

    I originally had the Focus, & while I thought Win7 was interesting & artistic, it didn't have the app support in the beginning. So I took it back to the AT&T store & picked up the HTC Inspire 4G.

    I've since sold the Inspire 4G & have been using a buddy's iPhone 3GS. It's a nice little phone and the apps are cool, however I wouldn't mind trying a Windows phone again. Btw, the battery life that Apple is always saying is so great? Ya, it sucks on the 3GS. I can't believe Apple users make fun of Android phones.

    In any case, I'm interested in the Lumia 900 & the Windows platform again, however my issue is still the lack of apps. I checked Zune & apps like Waze, which I LOVE on Android/iOS, isn't available.

    Here are a few other apps I'd miss out on:
    > Draw Something
    > Words With Friends
    > Box
    > Angry Birds Space (I've read its on the way)
    > Pandora (Really?)
    > Paypal (1st party app)
    > Pulse News (great app on Android/iOS)
    > Open Table
    > Weather Underground
    > Raindar (iOS doesn't have this either - awesome app on Android)

    I knew these apps might eventually be on the way but it's discouraging to thing great apps aren't included in the Windows marketplace even after all this time.

    Anyone else have this issue?
    04-01-2012 11:15 AM
  13. spi7fire's Avatar
    Interesting info on the Lumia 900.

    I originally had the Focus, & while I thought Win7 was interesting & artistic, it didn't have the app support in the beginning. So I took it back to the AT&T store & picked up the HTC Inspire 4G.

    I've since sold the Inspire 4G & have been using a buddy's iPhone 3GS. It's a nice little phone and the apps are cool, however I wouldn't mind trying a Windows phone again. Btw, the battery life that Apple is always saying is so great? Ya, it sucks on the 3GS. I can't believe Apple users make fun of Android phones.

    In any case, I'm interested in the Lumia 900 & the Windows platform again, however my issue is still the lack of apps. I checked Zune & apps like Waze, which I LOVE on Android/iOS, isn't available.

    Here are a few other apps I'd miss out on:
    > Draw Something
    > Words With Friends
    > Box
    > Angry Birds Space (I've read its on the way)
    > Pandora (Really?)
    > Paypal (1st party app)
    > Pulse News (great app on Android/iOS)
    > Open Table
    > Weather Underground
    > Raindar (iOS doesn't have this either - awesome app on Android)

    I knew these apps might eventually be on the way but it's discouraging to thing great apps aren't included in the Windows marketplace even after all this time.

    Anyone else have this issue?
    Pulse News and WUnderground are available on the windows phone marketplace.
    04-01-2012 11:43 AM
  14. KCMike's Avatar
    Pulse News and WUnderground are available on the windows phone marketplace.
    I found Pulse using this link (see below) but I wasn't able to find Weather Underground.

    http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/ma...?wa=wsignin1.0
    04-01-2012 11:52 AM
  15. kltye's Avatar
    For those getting confused about LTE & HSPA+ being "the same", they're not. E-UTRA is the air interface for LTE, which is completely incompatible with W-CDMA: E-UTRA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    If an air interface is not compatible (hence, "not the same"), the W-CDMA radios are not one and the same with LTE radios. Therefore, you can "turn off" the LTE radio and fallback on W-CDMA.

    The air interface has NOTHING to do with frequency bands; the air interface specifies HOW bits are transmitted on a given frequency. The phone doesn't magically know which air interfaces are available (and frequency bands), and so has to "ping the air", so to speak, to figure out what's available and which networks it can connect to.

    1st generation LTE chips were built on the 65nm process, which is relatively inefficient. Current generation LTE chips are built on 45nm, and are more efficient, while in the future, the LTE modem will be integrated right into the SoC itself, thereby eliminating an additional chip and increasing power efficiency.
    04-01-2012 03:42 PM
  16. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    3GPP Long Term Evolution (LTE), is the latest standard in the mobile network technology tree that produced the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA network technologies. It is a project of the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP), operating under a name trademarked by one of the associations within the partnership, the European Telecommunications Standards Institute.

    HSPA+, also known as Evolved High-Speed Packet Access is a wireless broadband standard defined in 3GPP release 7 and above.HSPA+ provides HSPA data rates up to 84 Megabits per second (Mbit/s) on the downlink and 22 Mbit/s on the uplink through the use of a multiple-antenna technique known as MIMO (for “multiple-input and multiple-output”) and higher order modulation (64QAM). MIMO on CDMA based systems acts like virtual sectors to give extra capacity closer to the mast. The 84 Mbit/s and 22 Mbit/s represent theoretical peak sector speeds. The actual speed for a user will be lower. At cell edge and even at half the distance to the cell edge there may only be slight increase compared with 14.4 Mbit/s HSDPA unless a channel wider than 5 MHz is used. Future revisions of HSPA+ support up to 168 Mbit/s using multiple carriers and up to 672Mbps is proposed for 3GPP Release 11 using advanced antenna techniques.
    Source(s):
    3gpp.org
    04-01-2012 04:12 PM
  17. kltye's Avatar
    3GPP Long Term Evolution (LTE), is the latest standard in the mobile network technology tree that produced the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA network technologies. It is a project of the 3rd Generation Partnership Project (3GPP), operating under a name trademarked by one of the associations within the partnership, the European Telecommunications Standards Institute.

    HSPA+, also known as Evolved High-Speed Packet Access is a wireless broadband standard defined in 3GPP release 7 and above.HSPA+ provides HSPA data rates up to 84 Megabits per second (Mbit/s) on the downlink and 22 Mbit/s on the uplink through the use of a multiple-antenna technique known as MIMO (for multiple-input and multiple-output) and higher order modulation (64QAM). MIMO on CDMA based systems acts like virtual sectors to give extra capacity closer to the mast. The 84 Mbit/s and 22 Mbit/s represent theoretical peak sector speeds. The actual speed for a user will be lower. At cell edge and even at half the distance to the cell edge there may only be slight increase compared with 14.4 Mbit/s HSDPA unless a channel wider than 5 MHz is used. Future revisions of HSPA+ support up to 168 Mbit/s using multiple carriers and up to 672Mbps is proposed for 3GPP Release 11 using advanced antenna techniques.
    Source(s):
    3gpp.org
    Yes, 3GPP is responsible for GSM, UMTS, and LTE. And yes, LTE evolved from UMTS (much like UMTS evolved from GSM). That still doesn't mean the radios are the "same". As a quick example, WCDMA/UMTS/HSPA use 5MHz chunks of spectrum to work, while LTE has the ability to use variable-sized chunks, ranging from 1.4MHz to 20MHz. That's a significant change in terms of how the air interface works. That's just like saying WiFi and Bluetooth are using the same radio, even if they're on the same chip.
    04-01-2012 04:24 PM
  18. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    Yes, 3GPP is responsible for GSM, UMTS, and LTE. And yes, LTE evolved from UMTS (much like UMTS evolved from GSM). That still doesn't mean the radios are the "same". As a quick example, WCDMA/UMTS/HSPA use 5MHz chunks of spectrum to work, while LTE has the ability to use variable-sized chunks, ranging from 1.4MHz to 20MHz. That's a significant change in terms of how the air interface works. That's just like saying WiFi and Bluetooth are using the same radio, even if they're on the same chip.
    no those are two totally different things
    04-01-2012 04:26 PM
  19. kltye's Avatar
    no those are two totally different things
    What are you referring to?
    04-01-2012 04:27 PM
  20. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    What are you referring to?
    wifi and bluetooth lol
    04-01-2012 04:28 PM
  21. kltye's Avatar
    wifi and bluetooth lol
    My point exactly. Just like UMTS and LTE are different.
    04-01-2012 04:29 PM
  22. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    My point exactly. Just like UMTS and LTE are different.
    well my point is still valid if the hspa+ signal is strong and no LTE signal is there the radio wont ping for LTE because its latched onto that signal
    04-01-2012 04:33 PM
  23. kltye's Avatar
    well my point is still valid if the hspa+ signal is strong and no LTE signal is there the radio wont ping for LTE because its latched onto that signal
    What happens, then, if there's an LTE signal available? Say you travel from a place that has only HSPA+, then go into a region covered by both HSPA+ and LTE, how would the phone know LTE exists in that area?
    04-01-2012 04:35 PM
  24. AndreaCristiano's Avatar
    What happens, then, if there's an LTE signal available? Say you travel from a place that has only HSPA+, then go into a region covered by both HSPA+ and LTE, how would the phone know LTE exists in that area?
    LTE is the priority signal so that signal would get preference
    04-01-2012 04:49 PM
  25. kltye's Avatar
    LTE is the priority signal so that signal would get preference
    Well, with that, I'm... hoping everyone else here can clearly see what's what, and this will be my last reply on this topic in this thread - we've hijacked the thread enough already.
    04-01-2012 04:57 PM
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