CNET Review

tekhna

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He's actually been using a google nexus device exclusively for a while, so, no. Josh is actually a pretty fair guy.

I thought it was a pretty fair review. He listed the things he liked, the things he didn't he supported. WP7 still has holes. The hardware is dangerously dated, but doesn't matter, for the moment. But there's a lot to love about this phone.

My real question is the quality of the camera. No one seems to agree on it.
 
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fogel35

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I thought it was a pretty fair review. He listed the things he liked, the things he didn't he supported all the parts of his review. WP7 still has holes. The hardware is dangerously dated, but doesn't matter, for the moment. But there's a lot to love about this phone.

My real question is the quality of the camera. No one seems to agree on it.

I think the varying reviews of the camera is based upon the user. Some people just can't take good shots. My wife swears up and down I cannot take a decent picture. She on the other hand takes pretty decent shots with just about any camera. Probably helps that she worked in camera store.
 

cdook

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The photos that were taken in the WPCentral review look awesome. The photos are detailed and crisp. TheVerge photos don't look as good though. User error?

There's a TON of comments for ThrVerge review. I'm curious if that's the norm for the site or people aren't happy with the review.
 

peestandingup

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I think his review was a fair assessment in the current smartphone climate. I mean, OK, so even if you guys are correct & he IS an Apple ****** & he's just been using an Android device for months to simply not look like such a hater of everything non-Apple (which isn't likely). Is there anything he said that wasn't truthful?

Yes, the camera by most accounts is mediocre. Not terrible, but certainly not up to par with the other flagship devices. Even lagging behind some mid range phones.

And apps? Well, where are they?? I kinda agree with him that the time for giving WP a pass on a lot of this stuff is coming to an end. This was their shining moment. And while its a great device, there's some things that are really turn offs (like the camera, the app situation & the older hardware not being really future proofed). These are things no one can deny (unless you're just hardcore team WP no matter what & never use anything else).

Anyways, a 7 is a very respectable score. I know a lot of people wanted it to blow everyone outta the water, but c mon. Did you really expect that at this point?? Its a review of the entire experience as a whole, ecosystem & all (not just looks & design). I think it was fair & I share his gripes.
 

tbeagl

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The photos that were taken in the WPCentral review look awesome. The photos are detailed and crisp. TheVerge photos don't look as good though. User error?

There's a TON of comments for ThrVerge review. I'm curious if that's the norm for the site or people aren't happy with the review.
Alot of people dislike the review
I think his review was a fair assessment in the current smartphone climate. I mean, OK, so even if you guys are correct & he IS an Apple ****** & he's just been using an Android device for months to simply not look like such a hater of everything non-Apple (which isn't likely). Is there anything he said that wasn't truthful?

Yes, the camera by most accounts is mediocre. Not terrible, but certainly not up to par with the other flagship devices. Even lagging behind some mid range phones.

And apps? Well, where are they?? I kinda agree with him that the time for giving WP a pass on a lot of this stuff is coming to an end. This was their shining moment. And while its a great device, there's some things that are really turn offs (like the camera, the app situation & the older hardware not being really future proofed). These are things no one can deny (unless you're just hardcore team WP no matter what & never use anything else).

Anyways, a 7 is a very respectable score. I know a lot of people wanted it to blow everyone outta the water, but c mon. Did you really expect that at this point?? Its a review of the entire experience as a whole, ecosystem & all (not just looks & design). I think it was fair & I share his gripes.
every other review on the web seem to disagree even Gizmodo.
 

apoc527

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I find the whole "ecosystem" argument to be a joke. I consider myself a fairly advanced and heavy user of smartphones (certainly this is true of myself compared to my extended family), and I just don't think most people actually use all that many apps.

70,000 (or 80,000) apps compared to 500,000? But of what quality? Of what type? Yes, there ARE some major app differentials, but those will be corrected, by MS's brute force cash method if necessary. But for the most part, as someone else observed, how many fart noise making apps do you need? Quantity |= quality.

I've been an iOS user for the last 4 years and I use the following apps on daily basis:

Facebook
Find Your Friends
OneNote (so much better than Notes on iOS and obviously not missing from WP7)
Hero Academy

That's really it. 4 apps, one of which is just a game-du-jour! Everything else I do on my phone is in the browser and other core functions (texting, camera, email, and occasionally voice calls).

I honestly don't think that I'm all that different a user from the large majority of people out there. In fact, I believe there are articles that make it fairly clear that apps are often downloaded and never used. Download numbers are not an indication (necessarily) of an app's actual importance to smartphone users.

I just wish that these reviewers would get some perspective on the app situation...
 

eastbayrae

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I would rather have a great phone than an app jukebox like an iPhone/Android device. I have been reading The Verge for about two months now and my general consensus is that unless it's Apple/Android it's utter rubbish.
 

sdreamer

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The camera was a big deturring factor for me, but after seeing some shootouts I don't feel so bad about it anymore. The Lumia 900 does do poorly on some accounts, but one some it's does as well as th competing top tiers. CNet happen to do a quick shootout between the Lumia 900 and iPhone, and on some accounts it looked better, and it didn't look horrible like some photos we've been seeing lately.
Nokia Lumia 900 camera shoot-out vs. iPhone 4 (photos) | Crave - CNET
For now, it's a bit inconsistent I think. It can perform, we saw that in the WPCentral review and some samples out there from other reviews, but at the same time there are some horrid photos as well. I think this haze look we're getting is from the apeture. Those photos remind me of over exposed photos that just need a solar filter or something. Wonder if increasing the ISO would help.
 

peestandingup

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I find the whole "ecosystem" argument to be a joke. I consider myself a fairly advanced and heavy user of smartphones (certainly this is true of myself compared to my extended family), and I just don't think most people actually use all that many apps.

70,000 (or 80,000) apps compared to 500,000? But of what quality? Of what type? Yes, there ARE some major app differentials, but those will be corrected, by MS's brute force cash method if necessary. But for the most part, as someone else observed, how many fart noise making apps do you need? Quantity |= quality.

I've been an iOS user for the last 4 years and I use the following apps on daily basis:

Facebook
Find Your Friends
OneNote (so much better than Notes on iOS and obviously not missing from WP7)
Hero Academy

That's really it. 4 apps, one of which is just a game-du-jour! Everything else I do on my phone is in the browser and other core functions (texting, camera, email, and occasionally voice calls).

I honestly don't think that I'm all that different a user from the large majority of people out there. In fact, I believe there are articles that make it fairly clear that apps are often downloaded and never used. Download numbers are not an indication (necessarily) of an app's actual importance to smartphone users.

I just wish that these reviewers would get some perspective on the app situation...

What about games? What about kid's apps?? Advanced video & photo editing?? Seriously, have you seen some of this stuff on iOS? Its completely in another league than WP (and to some extent Android). I'm sorry, it just is.

Where's Flipboard, Instagram, a decent Facebook client, Path, Camera+, Hipstamatic, Draw Something, a decent G Voice client? Is there anything even remotely close to iPhoto & iMovie?? Why Microsoft hasn't made apps that rival those last two I'll never know, because they certainly could.

Anyways, most people use apps like crazy & the specific ones (and types) that I mentioned are insanely popular. A phone & its ecosystem isn't just for browsing the internet anymore & using a handful of apps to do some mundane tasks.

They need apps & they need developers, like right now. Because I can tell you right now. I love my Titan, but using the iPhone & its ecosystem is like a whole nother world being opened up to you. One that simply does not exist on WP.
 

Kahuna Cowboy

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Josh does make some great points, and he is right, it is time to stop giving WP a pass being it's the new eco-system. It's going on 2 years old now, it should have an eco-system on par with Apple and Android (apps not withstanding), but an XBOX remote alone is not going to cut it for a vast eco-system. At this point WP should be nicely integrated with everything MS and it is simply not. If it does have integration it usually relies on app launching to accomplish integration which is the very thing WP lambasts Google and Apple for. Then of course Google has Play, Apple has iTunes, MS has Zune...... That speaks for itself right there. MS needs a better entertainment eco-system backing up WP. Maybe XBox live sans stupid point system would be in order??? Instead we get to hear "Apollo will be the game changer." We heard the same crap with Mango. It is time to measure WP on it's merits today, not it's potential tomorrow. Josh nailed that on the head, and no matter how great the UI is, how great the phone feels, overall WP is still 2 steps behind Android and iOS no matter how you spin it.

With that said, I also feel Josh approached this review from the wrong perspective. He is comparing every nuance of the phone and OS to devices like the GNex and iPhone. Wel,l on a spec sheet yes, the Lumia 900 is behind the times when you slap it up against a Galaxy Nexus, from a user experience standpoint is where it needs to be graded from and I think he failed pretty poorly at that aspect. Also I feel Josh fell short of realizing a sleek and sexy $99 dollar LTE phone on subsidy is no small precedent Nokia and AT&T have set which Josh glossed right over instead approaching his review comparing it to phones that cost $299 on subsidy.

Josh is pretty fair overall, and no he is not an iPhone ******, the resident iPhone ****** at The Verge is Nilay Patel who has no hand in this review. As a whole however The Verge is very FAndroid friendly. I listen to their podcasts often, rarely does WP get a mention, if they do it is a quick 5 min discussion while there is an hour discussion about anything Apple or Android. This is true for the Vergecast and their Mobile Podcast. I don't think Josh intentionally is trying to "sabotage" WP with his review, I just think as a whole The Verge is just not interested in it preferring Apple and Google.
 

Beacio_mo

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Josh does make some great points, and he is right, it is time to stop giving WP a pass being it's the new eco-system. It's going on 2 years old now, it should have an eco-system on par with Apple and Android (apps not withstanding), but an XBOX remote alone is not going to cut it for a vast eco-system. At this point WP should be nicely integrated with everything MS and it is simply not. If it does have integration it usually relies on app launching to accomplish integration which is the very thing WP lambasts Google and Apple for. Then of course Google has Play, Apple has iTunes, MS has Zune...... That speaks for itself right there. MS needs a better entertainment eco-system backing up WP. Maybe XBox live sans stupid point system would be in order??? Instead we get to hear "Apollo will be the game changer." We heard the same crap with Mango. It is time to measure WP on it's merits today, not it's potential tomorrow. Josh nailed that on the head, and no matter how great the UI is, how great the phone feels, overall WP is still 2 steps behind Android and iOS no matter how you spin it.

With that said, I also feel Josh approached this review from the wrong perspective. He is comparing every nuance of the phone and OS to devices like the GNex and iPhone. Wel,l on a spec sheet yes, the Lumia 900 is behind the times when you slap it up against a Galaxy Nexus, from a user experience standpoint is where it needs to be graded from and I think he failed pretty poorly at that aspect. Also I feel Josh fell short of realizing a sleek and sexy $99 dollar LTE phone on subsidy is no small precedent Nokia and AT&T have set which Josh glossed right over instead approaching his review comparing it to phones that cost $299 on subsidy.

Josh is pretty fair overall, and no he is not an iPhone ******, the resident iPhone ****** at The Verge is Nilay Patel who has no hand in this review. As a whole however The Verge is very FAndroid friendly. I listen to their podcasts often, rarely does WP get a mention, if they do it is a quick 5 min discussion while there is an hour discussion about anything Apple or Android. This is true for the Vergecast and their Mobile Podcast. I don't think Josh intentionally is trying to "sabotage" WP with his review, I just think as a whole The Verge is just not interested in it preferring Apple and Google.


I agree that The Verge rarely discusses WP7, but you can say the same about Blackberry as well. They really do focus on what sells, and although I am a big WP7 fan after trying the Focus Flash and I have a pre-order 900, WP7 still has a tiny market share compared to Android and iOS. I really hope the 900 turns their market share around, especially with a PureView WP7 on the horizon :-D
 

bobsentell

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Josh does make some great points, and he is right, it is time to stop giving WP a pass being it's the new eco-system.

But then a potential Windows Dev reads that review and decides it is not worth the effort.

I have always maintained that as long as your device has facebook, twitter, Angry Birds, and a camera, then you have a complete device in the eyes of 90% of the buying population. Throw in Instagram and WP7 is perfect in their eyes. Apps are merely there to cover the shortcomings of the platform. And so what if Android has 200,000,000 apps? How many of them would curl the toes of your virus scanner?

I understand the idea of having games and that stuff, but last time I check Microsoft had control of this goofy little device called the XBOX. Have you heard of it? They have games; they just don't have the same games.

Microsoft and Windows Phone, as an ecosystem, are fine. It's the hardware that has been lacking. But now they have a manufacturer that is putting real effort into it rather than just reflashing one of their Android phones.

It's never too late for anything. Only if you fail to adapt and grow. BlackBerry owned this market for years and now they are trying to figure out how to survive. This game is never over. Apple is one more 3.5" screen away from having a flop on their hands.
 

squire777

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The point is that this review wasn't the time or place for him to go off on a tangent about WP7 as an OS, and the ecosystem. That could have been done in a separate piece, but he chose to bring it up during the review for the 900 for some odd reason.

There isn't much Microsoft can do if developers don't want to make apps for WP7. Compared to 6 months ago there are a lot of new apps out there, and aside from a few that I really want I can say that the ecosystem isn't as bad as some are making it out to be. And no Instagram? that should be counted as a positive IMO. Sick of seeing those crappy photos every where.

Sure the hardware on the 900 isn't anything special, but most other reviewers said it was a snappy phone, and even the camera was good. It's the same attitude Josh had from his Engadget days. Anytime something big, non-Apple would be released with a lot of hype, Josh would just give it a bad review. I think he has some weird insecurity.
 

Kahuna Cowboy

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But then a potential Windows Dev reads that review and decides it is not worth the effort.

I have always maintained that as long as your device has facebook, twitter, Angry Birds, and a camera, then you have a complete device in the eyes of 90% of the buying population. Throw in Instagram and WP7 is perfect in their eyes. Apps are merely there to cover the shortcomings of the platform. And so what if Android has 200,000,000 apps? How many of them would curl the toes of your virus scanner?

I understand the idea of having games and that stuff, but last time I check Microsoft had control of this goofy little device called the XBOX. Have you heard of it? They have games; they just don't have the same games.

Microsoft and Windows Phone, as an ecosystem, are fine. It's the hardware that has been lacking. But now they have a manufacturer that is putting real effort into it rather than just reflashing one of their Android phones.

It's never too late for anything. Only if you fail to adapt and grow. BlackBerry owned this market for years and now they are trying to figure out how to survive. This game is never over. Apple is one more 3.5" screen away from having a flop on their hands.

Devs are not going to care that the Verge gave the Lumia 900 a 7 out of 10 and decide to avoid the WP platform all together. They will avoid it because of the measly market share WP has overall. Until that changes, the devs with premier apps will focus on iOS and Android.

The ecosystem is FAR from fine! No one will take WP seriously until things like AirPlay, a true entertainment platform on par with iTunes is backing up the ecosystem, a better more unified cloud experience, an XBOX Live hub that actually does something with my XBOX then change my avatar, an easy way to control my PC from my phone, Skype interegration, and of course a marketplace that has apps people want, like their bank's app, their local news apps, resturaunt apps, etc... etc... are a reality. But that would just get the ecosystem up to where iOS and Android are right now at this moment in time. Even if all of that happened with Apollo (which it won't) WP would still be behind the curve by the time Apollo launches.

Think about it, imagine you worked for AT&T. What reason would you give to perspective phone buyers to choose WP beyond YOU like the UI better? What does it do that Droid and iOS do not? Past some integration with Office, not much. But there is a heck of a lot Droid and iOS do that WP does not as pointed above with a few notable examples.

At least now with the Nokia 900 we have a WP that does not look like Droid hardware from 2009! That's a step in the right direction.

As for iPhone, many thought the 4S would flop too, it shattered iPhone sales and their market share continues to grow. They can go with a smaller screen and people will still buy it. They are raking in $$$ hand over fist and iOS continues to grow at an impressive rate. They are far from a flop anytime soon. Sadly Apple has that luxury to not innovate much and to not constantly have to put out new designs. WP does not have that luxury as it scratches and claws for market share to not fall into the abyss of dead mobile platforms.

I'm not saying all of this disparage WP, I like it. But it is lacking and does need a lot of work before it is a serious alternative in the mobile world. Sticking our head's in the sand and begging the tech blogs to be gentle is not going to change that.
 

Kahuna Cowboy

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I agree that The Verge rarely discusses WP7, but you can say the same about Blackberry as well. They really do focus on what sells, and although I am a big WP7 fan after trying the Focus Flash and I have a pre-order 900, WP7 still has a tiny market share compared to Android and iOS. I really hope the 900 turns their market share around, especially with a PureView WP7 on the horizon :-D

Now a Pureview WP would be a true "game changer"!
 

bobsentell

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But 85,000 apps is hardly lacking. At some point, the major apps will support the major platforms with the rest of the library being made up by smaller devs.

Also, read this story. This is an Android dev who supports 707 different Android devices and 99% of all of her emails are complaints over lack of support. All Microsoft needs to say is "build for us once and you are done".
 

JetLife87

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What about games? What about kid's apps?? Advanced video & photo editing?? Seriously, have you seen some of this stuff on iOS? Its completely in another league than WP (and to some extent Android). I'm sorry, it just is.

Where's Flipboard, Instagram, a decent Facebook client, Path, Camera+, Hipstamatic, Draw Something, a decent G Voice client? Is there anything even remotely close to iPhoto & iMovie?? Why Microsoft hasn't made apps that rival those last two I'll never know, because they certainly could.

Anyways, most people use apps like crazy & the specific ones (and types) that I mentioned are insanely popular. A phone & its ecosystem isn't just for browsing the internet anymore & using a handful of apps to do some mundane tasks.

They need apps & they need developers, like right now. Because I can tell you right now. I love my Titan, but using the iPhone & its ecosystem is like a whole nother world being opened up to you. One that simply does not exist on WP.

I'm in the group the other guy was in. First, I don't like really gaming on touch screen devices. Have had all the iPads, have probably played angry birds the most and for a total of about 5 hours. If I do like a game, it's some type of bejeweled/angry birds type game. Not modern war 3 or real racing 2.

Video editing apps would be cool on the phone, but I don't think it will be used.basically I think many reviewers out there are docking points for things they don't even use themselves and not adding points for things they will use. Did josh even try out Xbox companion? No on ever talks about how much better the office integration is. For college it's great, view full ppts. With notes, something no app can do on iOS. What about being able to search word documents? Things like that go severely unnoticed.

Groups are something that's never talked about, being able to group some employees, friends, or teammates together and see the history of your emails is a very nice feature also.

Just the other day my professor released grades for a research paper we did with her comments. I am able to go to the website, view the word document with all the comments, save it to my phone, and then email it to a friend. Couldn't do that on most platforms, the comments would fk up. On ios you'd need goodreader to download the file if you want to share it, even then the format will suck.

My point being is that people like josh add points for dead space, but never play it. They add points for AirPlay, but never use it. He adds points for iMovie but probably never uses it (iMovie is cool though don't get me wrong) but they don't add points for things they would actually use.

The apps get criticized all the time but no one talks about microsoft letting emulator or YouTube apps where you can download the videos. Or the YouTube apps that let you play audio in the background (I have friends that love their jb iPhone because it can download YouTube videos, they can't play in the background though, or at least last time I checked)

I think there is way too much emphasis on apps, people want an app that they see on tv that they will never use. People use apps like instagram, twitter, Facebook, pulse, Skype, etc. I don't think many people use their phones for heavy gaming.

People criticize the ecosystem like androids is so great. Only difference is google releases stuff just to get people like josh to shut up. Google music, not that great, got reviewers to shut up about music. Renting videos on android, not that great, prolly done by .5% of android users if that, got reviewers to shut up.


All these trendy apps go away and people go back to using their smartphone for the basic stuff which windows phone does amazingly.
 
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threed61

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Jet Life, very good points! I think the tech site reviews are not nearly as important as the mainstream media reviews, and they tend to look at phones more from the average consumers perspective.
 

Joelist

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I think a large part of this "app angst" stems from ignorant reviewers not actually understanding how the OS functions. iOS and Android are "app centric" OSes and rely on apps for a lot of functionality. WP7 takes a different approach with the hubs centralizing data in logical groups.

Plus, it is true that the engadget and verge reviews were badly biased and basically worthless.
 

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