Lumia 920 camera is is not as good as we thought ????? How is this possible

[SuddenlyDinosaur]

For sure.. the 920 lets more light in and the jpeg processing takes care of some of the extra noise. Now, I don't know what balance they chose between high ISO and exposure time. Longer exposures won't work in a bar where everybody is moving, you need a fast shutter speed and a flash for a usable picture in situations like that.

I am yet to see a 920 shot in bright sunlight...all the shots are taken in less than ideal conditions, so I still can't quite get a good feel for it.

So, do you think that this can be fixed by a software update, or does there need to be a change in the hardware?

 

[vlad0]

So, do you think that this can be fixed by a software update, or does there need to be a change in the hardware?

Which part ? The aggressive noise reductions (which seems to be present, I am not sure yet) can be adjusted via a software update.

I noticed a similar behavior in the new LG .. something with a 13Mpix BSI sensor, very aggressive noise reduction, it destroys all the detail.

The 900 got much better over time as far as remember, so... I am sure they will be working on it, but don't expect quantum leaps

 

[Yang_H]

From the cnet review, it is clear to me that Lumia 920's sensor is much nosier than iPhone5's. The noise reduction in 920's photo is very heavy, smearing a lot of fine details. The catch here is whether those two photos were taken at same ISO levels. If they were, then iPhone5 definitely has a superior sensor in terms of sensitivity/noise level. If it turned out that 920 aggressively uses higher ISOs under less than ideal lighting conditions, then we need to see more samples taken by 920 and iPhone5 at identical ISO. Aggressive ISO settings can be potentially fixed by camera software, but if 920 indeed has a nosier sensor then it'll be impossible for it to match iPhone 5.

Those night photo samples of 920 do look impressive. However, I guess that's mostly because that 920's image-stabilized lens allows much longer exposure time at low ISO level. Other cameras have to bump up the ISO to increase the shutter speed in order to minimize the shaking, resulting in underexposed and less cleaner photos than 920's.

 

[vlad0]

^ It could be the sensor.. but I am thinking its more of a jpeg processing problem.

The funny part is.. the iPhone uses a Sony sensor, and the Nokia 920 uses a Sharp sensor, co-developed with Nokia apparently. Nokia worked with Toshiba on the N8s and the 808s sensor.. but for some reason they switched to Sharp for that one.

The few low light shots I've seen are all shot at 800 iso, which is... "normal", most smartphones do the same.

 

[dukrem]

From the cnet review, it is clear to me that Lumia 920's sensor is much nosier than iPhone5's. The noise reduction in 920's photo is very heavy, smearing a lot of fine details. The catch here is whether those two photos were taken at same ISO levels. If they were, then iPhone5 definitely has a superior sensor in terms of sensitivity/noise level. If it turned out that 920 aggressively uses higher ISOs under less than ideal lighting conditions, then we need to see more samples taken by 920 and iPhone5 at identical ISO. Aggressive ISO settings can be potentially fixed by camera software, but if 920 indeed has a nosier sensor then it'll be impossible for it to match iPhone 5.

Those night photo samples of 920 do look impressive. However, I guess that's mostly because that 920's image-stabilized lens allows much longer exposure time at low ISO level. Other cameras have to bump up the ISO to increase the shutter speed in order to minimize the shaking, resulting in underexposed and less cleaner photos than 920's.

The effect you see on the lumia is the result of overly aggressive noise reduction, not noise itself. It reduces sharpness and you get that typical appearance of pixels that appear to have 'jumped off' the object they belong to (ie if there is a white object on a dark background you will see a couple of white pixels over the dark background just off the edge of the white object).

If you zoom in on both full size images the iphone clearly has a LOT more noise. It is especially obvious in the clouds/sky at the top. Whether the fact that there is apparently less noise in the lumia is down to the huge amount of processing/noise reduction that has occurred or whether it naturally has less noise is unclear until nokia patches the software to tone down NR for daylight shots.

 

[anon(5339110)]

The funny part is.. the iPhone uses a Sony sensor, and the Nokia 920 uses a Sharp sensor, co-developed with Nokia apparently. Nokia worked with Toshiba on the N8s and the 808s sensor.. but for some reason they switched to Sharp for that one.

FWIW, I installed a CCTV security system for friend a couple years ago that came with Sony-sensored cameras. I had a problem with one of the cameras, but the company was out of the same Sony sensor cameras. Instead, they sent me the same level (price-point) camera, but with a Sharp sensor. The Sharp based camera has a much better image. I mean much, much, better. Way better color and sharpness. Really night and day.

 

[cckgz4]

ROTFLMAO. This is utter crap.

So you telling me, in every day situations, the majority of those in agreement about how "crappy" Lumia's camera is, are looking at 800x zoomed in photos all the time?

So no one has children that run around, go out at night with friends, or things of that nature right? Huh. Amazing. So because it failed to have less blurrier shots than iP5's mega zoomed pictures, it's a fail.

I'm done ROTFLMAO.

 

[cckgz4]

Well, in all honesty this forum was hyping this camera up a some kind of game changer. People were getting blasted for even mentioning the 8x or Ativ around here. The Nokia elitism was at an all time high. Now people are realizing that it's just another high end smartphone with exaggerated features.

Actually in my experience, I was getting blasted along with other members for LIKING the Lumia's camera. Granted it was by.....4 members who were rampant in their dislike for Nokia, but still I was called a Nokia worshipper

 

[vlad0]

FWIW, I installed a CCTV security system for friend a couple years ago that came with Sony-sensored cameras. I had a problem with one of the cameras, but the company was out of the same Sony sensor cameras. Instead, they sent me the same level (price-point) camera, but with a Sharp sensor. The Sharp based camera has a much better image. I mean much, much, better. Way better color and sharpness. Really night and day.

Hm..ya, Sharp are one of those "out of the spotlight" Japanese companies that always had good products, they even tried mobile phones as far as I remember, and they stood out with higher res screen.. "back in the day" In fact.. who makes the screen for the 920 ? I know its not Nokia, and its not Samsung.. its either LG, Sony.. or possibly Sharp.

Anyway.. the sensor in the 920 is custom made for sure, since it has a true 16:9 aspect ratio.. Nokia seems the only company that makes the effort to do that, but it makes a big difference. If you compare any of the Nokia cameraphones to an iPhone for example, the iphone's perspective is way narrower than the Nokia's.

The Nokia elitism was at an all time high. Now people are realizing that it's just another high end smartphone with exaggerated features.

We should note something important here. Nokia's imaging is respected because of many, many years of development and innovation, it started with the 7650, then the N73,n93, n82, n86 ... all of which were ahead of the competition. They got some competition from SonyEricsson with their cybershot line (k850, Satio, etc) and from Samsung's Omnia HD and the mighty Pixon12, but overall.. they were always leading the way. The pixon12 wasn't even a smartphone..

Then in 2010 they destroyed everything with the Nokia N8(which is still better than anything besides the 808), and two years later they gave us the pinnacle of mobile photography.. the 808 PureView, which won not one.. but several photography awards, it's capabilities are well know and respected in the industry..actually.. several industries.

So.. the important part here is that all that innovation was done when they had their own platform (Symbian) and they had full control of the OS, so they could modify whatever they want to fit their developments, now.. things are very different.

Their Lumia line was worse than camera phones they were producing years ago, even the N86 would produce better results than the 800/710/900/810 in most situations, not to mention the N8/808.

So something is off.. I don't know what is, but they have the technology ready, and they know exactly what they are doing.. but for some reason, they are not delivering on Windows. I guess the 920 is the first real attempt to bring their innovation.. and it does work, they are still bringing something no one else has ever done in a mobile phone.. but you know, there are always people that would complain about almost anything.

 

[cckgz4]

Internet seriousness is funny

 

[vlad0]

Reality Check

"PureView" has two phases:

1. "pro" - which is what we have in the 808, high resolution, pixel oversampling, lossless zooming.

2. "OIS" - which is what we have in the 920, mechanical stabilization, which obviously works very well for video, and somewhat for pictures.

I don't understand how people expect amazing image quality in a 10mm chassis with a small sensor... its not going to happen.

So.. reality check for you would be to go and look at some images taken by Nokia's other smartphones, and see if you like what you see, if image quality is your thing. I guarantee you that HTC, or whomever you like, doesn't even come close, and they won't for a long time.

 

[sdreamer]

That's a bummer... over aggressive noise reduction was one reason I didn't like HTC imaging, now it seems Nokia did something with their post processing algorithm. That said, this can be remedied easily with an update, but that said, it shouldn't have to be this way in the first place. I think the 920 handles everything exceptionally except for the sharpness attributed to noise reduction. I much prefer the colors, they look much more natural than the washed out iPhone 5. I'll agree, the 920 was hyped up, but I still think it takes fantastic photos from what I have seen so far. These photos do not look much like anything phones from earlier in the year take.

 

[aceattorneymvp]

While I certainly appreciate all the sample photos uploaded here by various users, I've yet to see photos taken with good composition and subject matter.

I'll reserve judgment until then we do see this phone in the hands of a skilled and talented photographer.

 

[maverick786us]

I think this is all ridiculous, hardware wise the iPhone and htc 8x and any android have worse hardware, the 920 has slightly more mp than 8x and same aperture with a bigger sensor this automatically means better daytime and night time pics this can all be fixed software side, if its taking bad pics now it will be fixed in software update, the sensor itself is MUCH better than 900, and pretty close to the same in the 8x, its ridiculous to thin noise reduction will cause daylight problems its all SOFTWARE side it can all be adjusted, as for iphone it has worse aperture smaller sensor anything it does is completely software and limited to the crappy sensor it has, htc will give very similar pics but will always be edged out by 920 and low light will be night and day. ANYTHING software nokia can fix just because apple didn't rush the iphone 5 the software is more complete, as it stands right now the best camera phone is indeed the 808, then the n8, then will be 920 in that order all being nokia, then would be some htcs or sony's but I've seen sony 12mp camera phone compared to nokia n8, n8 won hands down and I own an n8 also, my wife has a 4s it takes awful pics, anybody who ever says an iphone takes good pics is retarded so many other phones have better sensors they just don't refine the software because google/android do not care, htc on the other hand has great sensors and software just like nokia, nokia obviously rushed this software will be be 100%give it 3 months it will easily beat every other modern OS phone in almost every situation, not only that iphone 5 has major problems with that lens, but to say htc will take better pics with an inferior sensor is dumb its all about hardware and nokia has always put best hardware in their phones for camera, with the exception of lumia 800, 900 those probably have the worst sensor they have ever put in a phone, on top of that its BSI just like all rest but with higher MP and bigger sensor and OIS, you cant say noise reduction is a problem software can be updated anytime they like people want to love apple and hate nokia cause NOTHING is better than iphone well iphone hasn't ever had the best camera at anytime it was released it was always way down the list, my n8 takes better pics than my stand alone camera and I have 100's of pics to prove it. the aperture is better on the 920 than the n8 the sensor is a little smaller I don't need n8 quality pics but if is close and also better in low light then its easily best camera on a modern os.

iPhone 5 has the BIG ISSUE of purple with its camera and still it is considered to be the best camera

 

[Gaichuke]

Some of you may claim otherwise or not care at all about it, but the camera is the make or break moment for the Lumia 920. You can go get the 8X or Ativ S and be assured to take better detailed daytime shots instead of wasting time with Nokia.

I'd suggest a reality check for yourself too.

There's absolutely no reliable evidence yet of how the camera performance of those handsets mentioned compares in the daylight conditions. What we've seen so far are only some first-hand impressions so you can't be assured of anything at this point.

But I'll play with you, let's say that there will be a proper comparison soon and it will confirm that Lumia 920's camera is not anything special in the daylight conditions and even loses slightly to some of the competition in the fine detail when looking full resolution photos. Huge performance difference is extremely unlikely due the similarity in the basic hardware components, there is not going to be significant difference to either direction.

Even if this would happen, there is still absolutely unparalleled low-light performance, thoroughly demonstrated by dozens of reviews and test situations. There's still OIS working in the lense to get amazing video performance, once again tested to the point of complete certainty. Together with Rich Recording, the video possibilities are in a completely different league. We should not forget that thanks to that same OIS, it's also very hard to get those slightly shaken pictures due to small hand movement during the shutter press.

So the worst case scenario looks like this:


- Only average daylight performance

+ The best low light performance
+ The best video performance
+ No shaken pictures

(+) The support that Nokia offers to it's devices almost grants an another pro here. You can be sure that they will be improving the camera performance throughout the device life cycle with software updates.


So no, I don't think anyone will be wasting their time with this device.

 

[CaptDjob]

I'd suggest a reality check for yourself too.

- Only average daylight performance

+ The best low light performance
+ The best video performance
+ No shaken pictures

(+) The support that Nokia offers to it's devices almost grants an another pro here. You can be sure that they will be improving the camera performance throughout the device life cycle with software updates.


So no, I don't think anyone will be wasting their time with this device.

Absolutely agree with this.

I wonder how people even expect "better than average" results is daylight. Camera has tinytiny sensor so result should be accordingly.

Most important area (where you usually get pictures ready to be only deleted) is low light situations. So if this deliveres on that, then the camera lives up to its hype.

Somehow people also forgets video and awesome rich recording (even if its mono). Why, I wonder....

I already pre-ordered this one. Yellow. Three weeks to get it, damn....

 

[ryuh3d]

I think you guys need to determine where you will be taking most of your pictures.

If you are taking most of your pictures outside of buildings and mountains -- it looks (per the CNET review) like the iPhone 5 has the best camera.

If you are taking lots of video -- the Lumia 920 has the best camera.

If you are taking pictures in less than ideal lighting situations (in a house, at a party, out at dinner) or at night -- the Lumia 920 has the best camera.

If you are taking pictures of people playing sports outside -- Unsure.

If you are taking pictures of people playing sports inside -- Lumia 920

If you are taking pictures of people posing outside in front of something -- Probably a tie.

Think about your situation. For me -- the Anti-Shake and Low Light performance are worth more than a slightly more detailed outdoor distance shot. While it is impressive that the iPhone 5 has more detail, it also has more noise.

Neither camera is as good as a real camera -- we sadly just aren't there yet.

 

[devize]

If you are taking pictures of people playing sports outside -- Unsure.

I'd take the Lumia in that case, unless the sport is a static one. Ever try taking a picture of someone running around? OIS should help with that.

 

[thejoyofsobe]

I need better sampling of shots and EXIF data before we make the call on these. it could very well be the 920's auto-ISO is too quick to jump up.

i mean it's a f/2.0 lens so under daylight conditions it should not need an ISO boost. we know it's hands-down the best in lowlight stills. give me daylight shots with ISO set to 100 and the subject relatively close (to mitigate any infinity focus error) and at the center of the frame (to mitigate lens edge sharpness drop off). keep in mind it's an f/2.0 lens being shot wide open so landscapes aren't really what it's designed for.

 

[joeynox]

People need to stop saying wait for the comparisons or the big sites because it doesn't matter how big or small te site is . Wmpoweruser.com has a comparison of the lumia 920, iPhone 4S and htc 8x and the 4s provided more detailed images. The images by the 920 are more than adequate but not as sharp.