11-06-2012 08:20 PM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    I actually like his analogy. We all have different opinions based on our biases and what's important to us. Processing speed and the like are measurable, but what about the usefulness of innovative features or design? Or the OS? etc.

    CLEARLY the mainstream media at least in the US is very, very biased as firstness stated. The networks have their own agendas.
    I don't understand what you don't get. Are you saying the properties I listed can't be measured (certainly wrong)? Are you saying no U.S. websites exist that offer a more scientific approach, thereby reducing bias, than the verge (I linked to one that clearly does. Did you look at it at all? Anandtech would be another). Like I said, technology is measurable, politics isn't. At least address why you disagree with these statements before reaserting the contrary.

    Subjective issues like design can't be measured, I agree, but I'm not interested in a reviewers opinion of what is beautiful either. I can decide that perfectly well on my own and have no trouble accepting differing opinions on such matters. Consequently, such factors should not impact a test score either.

    Most other things need to be viewed in terms of tradeoffs. For some people Android will be a better fit, others will prefer iOS or WP. A reviewers job is to tell me about strengths and weaknesses and not make up my mind which is best for me... if WP was the objectivly worst OS nobody would use it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 11-02-2012 at 02:21 AM.
    11-02-2012 02:05 AM
  2. MaulerX's Avatar
    Guys the difference is that they are reviewing from a general consumer review, that includes their thoughts on the mobile OS etc. You're likely looking for a review based on the hardware as, like us, you're already completely sold on the OS & ecosystem. Our review will be up soon. On a personal note remember that we know Dieter here, and I trust him to give an unbiased review based on his own opinion

    Don't defend him. Some of the stuff he said just didn't make sense. Besides, at the end it clearly states: Tom Warren, Josh Topolsky, and Vlad Savov contributed to this review.


    In other words, it was another typical collective shafting from The Verge.
    aubreyq and suvastallions like this.
    11-02-2012 02:09 AM
  3. firstness's Avatar
    What's disturbing is knowing that one review can have a large impact on the opinions of their readers, especially when they complain about something that better-informed people would consider insignificant. There's a large segment of people that actually value somebody making up their minds for them, and they read reviews for that purpose.

    For the people who have a vested interest in the success of WP8 the seemingly arbitrary criticism is hard to accept, but the ability to dictate opinion will always be exploited by those who have a large audience. The site itself will gain attention and ad clicks from a controversial review, and they want to protect their own investments in the Apple and Android ecosystems.

    If we want sites like The Verge to produce better reviews there needs to be feedback, in other words their reputation needs to take a hit for every bad review, ultimately resulting in less clicks.
    11-02-2012 02:50 AM
  4. stealthology's Avatar
    Guys the difference is that they are reviewing from a general consumer review, that includes their thoughts on the mobile OS etc. You're likely looking for a review based on the hardware as, like us, you're already completely sold on the OS & ecosystem. Our review will be up soon. On a personal note remember that we know Dieter here, and I trust him to give an unbiased review based on his own opinion
    Dieter is the one who made the video in their review, right? It's funny to note that his video had a complete different tone than in the written review. Good choice in friends. :)
    11-02-2012 03:14 AM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    snipped ;)
    While that doesn't address the issue we've been discussing, I completely agree.
    11-02-2012 03:19 AM
  6. Coreldan's Avatar
    Verge has different reviewers.
    This..

    Some I've seen are really great, but seems many of the reviewers hold a strong preference that often show in their reviews. Like Topolsky with the Surface review. It wasnt a thorough bad review, but many of things were just stupid.

    I used to hold Verge as one of the go-to places for reviews, but the place seems so damn inconsistent now depending what the reviewer is a fanboy of. I guess there might be some fairly unbiased guys too, but havnt met any for a while. This review'ish thing of Acer W510 seemed fairly well made to me though, guy named David Pierce, Acer Iconia W510 preview: a week with a true Windows 8 PC | The Verge
    11-02-2012 03:48 AM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    wait.. someone was such a crybaby they wrote a review of a review?

    :lol:

    Leaving that aside - after watching the video I don't see what the problem is.
    Last edited by cgk1; 11-02-2012 at 04:01 AM.
    11-02-2012 03:51 AM
  8. crystal_planet's Avatar
    Guys the difference is that they are reviewing from a general consumer review, that includes their thoughts on the mobile OS etc. You're likely looking for a review based on the hardware as, like us, you're already completely sold on the OS & ecosystem. Our review will be up soon. On a personal note remember that we know Dieter here, and I trust him to give an unbiased review based on his own opinion
    Yeah, I get that, but their does seem to be bias there and a strange rating system that is a quite unfair. They gave the iPad mini a 9 for example for no good reason at all, and they score way too much on ecosystem, when that's out of the hardware manufacturer's hands. Why not just continue to give Apple products the highest ratings if that's the case?
    aubreyq likes this.
    11-02-2012 06:48 AM
  9. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Bwahahahah. It may be time for that person to log off the internets for a month or so.
    wait.. someone was such a crybaby they wrote a review of a review?

    :lol:

    Leaving that aside - after watching the video I don't see what the problem is.
    PhilR8 likes this.
    11-02-2012 08:39 AM
  10. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    Sites like The Verge are the only sites I trust for unbiased reviews. No way, I mean no way in ****, will the WPC review be less that a 9. The phone could reboot 10 times in a row, but it will get nothing less than a 9. It's just the way fans sites vs tech site works.
    Last edited by 1jaxstate1; 11-02-2012 at 08:49 AM.
    11-02-2012 08:43 AM
  11. Winterfang's Avatar
    Well guys the thing is, until Microsoft has a great Ecosystem and lots of quality apps, is hard to give it the same score as the iphone or top notch android device.

    Let's say the ATIV ends up exactly if not a bit better than the Galaxy 3. It's still going to get a lower score and it deserves a lower score.

    In Windows Phone 7.5 we suffered from underpowered phones and unbaked OS. Now we have great phones (back before Nokia rubbed me the wrong way I only had one complain, where's the cool phones? I didn't stop that until I saw the ATIV and the 8X just immediately won me over) and a good OS but we still lack the tight integration Android has and the thousands of quality apps Iphone has.

    I will personally be weary of recommending the ATIV over the GS3 to anyone, because Windows Phone still lacks things people want, is not a complete OS and the phones suffered because of that.
    11-02-2012 08:55 AM
  12. aubreyq's Avatar
    In reality, how many customers in carrier kiosks and stores actually make their phone purchases based on the review they read on The Verge, anyway? Let's get real, here. I bet you that 80-90% of the time, if it's not an iPhone or a GS3, the customer bought what the sales clerk convinced them to buy.
    11-02-2012 09:01 AM
  13. ncxcstud's Avatar
    The way I look at it, the review was good. Sure there were a 'unfair' jabs at the 920, but on the whole it was quite positive. I still think review sites should just do away with numbering systems. Stick to what Engadget, Joystiq, and Kotaku do. Write a review and then in the wrap-up write the pros and cons.

    If it was just 'the words' and no arbitrary numbering system it would've been great.




    I still love the Kotaku format - Should I buy this or not? Yes or no?
    aubreyq likes this.
    11-02-2012 09:01 AM
  14. aubreyq's Avatar
    i still think review sites should just do away with numbering systems...write a review and then in the wrap-up write the pros and cons...if it was just 'the words' and no arbitrary numbering system it would've been great.
    this.
    11-02-2012 09:05 AM
  15. SuddenlyDinosaur's Avatar
    Well the video review was pretty nice. Very objective nothing unusual.

    Complained about the thickess and weight
    Love the darkshots, love the bright ones.
    Love the video, loves the camera
    Loves the screen
    Dislikes the OS.
    Dislikes that there's compromises and lack of definitely date.
    I never thought that I'd see the day that I agreed with Winterfang, but I do.

    This review was pretty fair.

    And he's right about having different reviewers. That's why it's not important to concentrate on the score, but on the actual review.
    aubreyq likes this.
    11-02-2012 09:05 AM
  16. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    I disagree. It's not that simple. I like how they separate certain factors. I see battery life is a 8. Battery life is important to me. Ecosystem is at a 5, well I don't really give a crap about that, so that's a trade off. Reception is a 7, seems kinda low, I thought Nokia phones were know for having great reception, I may be thinking about RIM phones. For me, I could remove the ecosystem score, or whatever scores I'm not interested or care for,and get a solid number off that.

    Saying to should someone buy the phone in a simple Yes or No, mean you really have to know what the person wants or interested in.
    The way I look at it, the review was good. Sure there were a 'unfair' jabs at the 920, but on the whole it was quite positive. I still think review sites should just do away with numbering systems. Stick to what Engadget, Joystiq, and Kotaku do. Write a review and then in the wrap-up write the pros and cons.

    If it was just 'the words' and no arbitrary numbering system it would've been great.




    I still love the Kotaku format - Should I buy this or not? Yes or no?
    11-02-2012 09:13 AM
  17. ncxcstud's Avatar
    But, that's why I read the review and not the score. You read the review and see that when he talks about reception he mentioned that others didn't have the issues he mentioned then states that he is on 'prerelease' software and that the reception in Seattle is not very good for AT&T.

    So, is the reception a score for the network as a whole where he did the review or is it reflective of the 920?

    If you just read the review and didn't have the score system I think you'd walk away with, "Hmm... I've always known Nokia phones to have good reception. This guy had problems and it seemed to be more with the area than anything else. But, it still something I need to look into"

    Instead of the (VAST MAJORITY) of folks who just skim down, see that reception is a '7' and then start spouting off about that the 920 is a crappy phone with horrible reception.
    aubreyq likes this.
    11-02-2012 09:19 AM
  18. 1jaxstate1's Avatar
    I looked at the score first, then read the review. But for me, I take what "neutral" sites like The Verge, "fan" sites like WPC and WMPU , into account and try to get a total view of the phone. Then I ignore them all and get the phone that I like.
    Instead of the (VAST MAJORITY) of folks who just skim down, see that reception is a '7' and then start spouting off about that the 920 is a crappy phone with horrible reception.
    As someone stated earlier, 90% of the people haven't even heard of The Verge. They'll get advice from a friend or, *shutters*, a store rep.
    aubreyq likes this.
    11-02-2012 09:29 AM
  19. crystal_planet's Avatar
    For me, I could remove the ecosystem score, or whatever scores I'm not interested or care for,and get a solid number off that.
    I agree with that - to an extent. The device, any device, should be rated on it's own merits - not anything that lies out of its control.

    Screen? legit
    Battery life? legit
    Size/weight? legit

    Lack of apps? stupid.
    aubreyq and 1jaxstate1 like this.
    11-02-2012 09:41 AM
  20. Winterfang's Avatar
    Me also, I trust Engadget's/Verge/Phonedog reviews way better than sites like WPcentral and Pocketnow and even lower the opinions of us forum members that haven't tried the phone yet.

    I always take good the advise of actual people, that's why everytime I see a customer with a new phone I always ask them. "So, had you have your phone for long" if they say yes then I ask for their opinion.

    There was a guy yesterday asking for a cover for the original Samsung Focus, he told me he will renewing his contract and wants the same phone again. He said his whole family had Focuses and the only one that will be changing it is his older son.

    (BTW I still think the original samsung focus as one of the best looking WPdevices)
    ncxcstud and aubreyq like this.
    11-02-2012 09:44 AM
  21. cgk's Avatar
    I looked at the score first, then read the review. But for me, I take what "neutral" sites like The Verge, "fan" sites like WPC and WMPU , into account and try to get a total view of the phone. Then I ignore them all and get the phone that I like.

    As someone stated earlier, 90% of the people haven't even heard of The Verge. They'll get advice from a friend or, *shutters*, a store rep.
    It is pretty much the same for all consumer products - and the answer is 1) Marketing/advertising, 2) Someone they trust within their reference group (basically their friends) and then finally 3) what the store staff have to say within the carrier they want.

    HTC said when they looked into the issue, that 70% of consumers already had decided what they wanted before they entered a store (which is partly why they struggled against Samsung who's advertising budget is four times their). If the Carrier they want doesn't have the phone, then it is dead to a lot of people.


    Me also, I trust Engadget's/Verge/Phonedog reviews way better than sites like WPcentral and Pocketnow and even lower the opinions of us forum members that haven't tried the phone yet.
    Oh I'd never trust the reviews on sites like this, same as I'd never trust a blackberry review on Crackberry or a WebOS review on WebOSNation - this are good sites but they are partisan advocacy sites preaching to the converted and they tell people what they want to hear.
    aubreyq and Winterfang like this.
    11-02-2012 09:54 AM
  22. ncxcstud's Avatar
    I love my Focus. My only complaint with it right now is the battery is tiny and runs out of juice pretty quickly (but still not as quickly as my wife's Samsung Galaxy SII Skyrocket ;)).

    I had a double battery that added some welcome 'heft' to the phone, but the new case backing was garbage and literally fell apart on me and I wasn't able to get a new one without buying the battery again.

    So, I'm back to the single small battery again. I love my Samsung Focus and get so many compliments on it.

    Though, I really really really wanted the US to get the Omnia W, that phone was awesome looking.
    11-02-2012 09:57 AM
  23. aubreyq's Avatar
    There was a guy yesterday asking for a cover for the original Samsung Focus, he told me he will renewing his contract and wants the same phone again. He said his whole family had Focuses and the only one that will be changing it is his older son.

    (BTW I still think the original samsung focus as one of the best looking WPdevices)
    The Focus has been great to me. Too bad AT&T stopped supporting it after 12 months or so. They could've done the entire 18 months, if you ask me.

    As far as that Focus owner you met, well I hope he can get a refurbished Focus or a Focus 2 before there aren't any left.
    11-02-2012 10:00 AM
  24. Calot's Avatar
    wait.. someone was such a crybaby they wrote a review of a review?

    :lol:

    Leaving that aside - after watching the video I don't see what the problem is.
    The NUMBER dude, THE NUMBER! (7.9)
    11-02-2012 10:01 AM
  25. Winterfang's Avatar
    The Focus is superior to the Omnia you where not missing much. The phone is like a mullet, business in the front, complete mess on the back.

    Anyway the Focus user was actually on pre-Nodo he didn't had copy/paste. BTW my Optimus problems started as soon as I got the Mango update, all my praised turned into frustration as lots of bugs and battery drain appeared.
    11-02-2012 10:02 AM
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