12-21-2012 09:35 AM
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  1. cameradork's Avatar
    I am pretty disappointed with it myself, especially after seeing the verge post the nice shots. I hope it's only software and it certainly does seem to be the case. It's either bad jpeg compression or they are trying to do too much processing on the photo. Personally I'd like to see a raw option. I haven't looked at the camera API or the new lens API enough to know if quality issues happen at that level or not.
    I took a quick peek through Nokia and MS's API documentation (I know enough about code to be dangerous, but not enough to be useful), and it looks like you do have access to the raw data, so creating a lens that just allows you to capture raw _should_ be a relatively easy thing. Again, there might be something I'm missing, but I'm pretty hopeful that we'll see a more feature-filled camera app at some point. I'd be happy to work with any devs on the idea and design of the app if someone wants to do the bulk of the coding ;)

    The camera hardware in this thing is impressive, and I'm sure with the right software (assuming there's access to all the switches and knobs), it could be fine-tuned to any number of uses.
    Dr. Impossible likes this.
    11-28-2012 07:53 AM
  2. EliteMikes's Avatar
    I'd like to look at it. I'd like to just take the raw data and stream the bitmap to a server to see what kind of quality we can get. I have too many house projects going on so playing with software gets pushed to the back of the to do list :(
    11-28-2012 07:58 AM
  3. cameradork's Avatar
    I'd like to look at it. I'd like to just take the raw data and stream the bitmap to a server to see what kind of quality we can get. I have too many house projects going on so playing with software gets pushed to the back of the to do list :(
    Yeah, same here. Can't learn to code fast enough and too many other things are eating away at my time these days. I was just thinking that a $2.99 pro camera app would sell really well right now, especially if it took advantage of all the Nokia functionality in this phone :)
    breadbun, Reflexx and socialcarpet like this.
    11-28-2012 08:12 AM
  4. deezus's Avatar
    I have messed with all the camera settings for daytime shots.While I think that the daytime shots could be better, its a software issue and not a hardware issue. The hardware is there. I don't think the daytime shots are bad but considering how good the night shots/video are I feel there is definitely room for improvement. One thing I like is in bad light during day I use the "Backlight" setting. When I do daytime shots come out very good. Could they be better? yes and I believe we will see an update that will do just that. Look at it like this, we know the hardware is there so its just a matter of a software update which in Nokias case they seem to be on top of.
    11-28-2012 11:04 AM
  5. Reeves's Avatar
    If Audi A8L was advertised for offroading.. then it would suck. And I agree that there are a lot of good things going on for 920, that's why I have a lumia 920 not an iPhone5, however when 80% of pics you take with your phone are soft and blurry.. for me this means "Camera SUCKS", I do agree that Video and nght shot pictures are best in class.

    And no I'm not gonna buy an iPhone, if I wanted one I would've got one, I'm in Att slavery anyway, What I want is to make enough noise so the camera software will actually get fixed.
    I just don't find that to be "typical" experience at all. 80% of pics being soft and blurry? Come on.

    If you tap the screen, the camera focuses on wherever you tap. Focus - rightfully - degrades the further away you move from that area.

    Pretty much everything this particular PureView camera was advertised for...it does and does it well.
    11-28-2012 11:46 AM
  6. Reeves's Avatar
    You will see me defending the Lumia (and the camera) all over the forum. But your argument seems to be that Nokia made a camera phone with really good night shots at the expense of days shots. I would say, that if that is true, they shot themselves in the foot. YOU may take a bunch of low light shots, but I think the average user does not. People like to go outside. Not everyone sits inside and takes pics of family. I get where you are coming from. It sounds like you are happy with the compromise. But I think others are not. And that is fair too, no?
    Sure, that is fair. But I would say that it's not like outdoor conditions are uniformly sunny all the time wherever you go. We're in Autumn/Fall, which has more than its share of bleary "low light" days across the globe. Same goes for Winter. The Lumia really shines here in a way that competitors don't. Meanwhile, the sunny day shots I've taken here in the South look good to me. I tend to mess with my pics in Creative Studio anyway, regardless of how they come out. Outdoor video ANY time of year is pretty impressive.

    It's not like Nokia gave no consideration to daylight or outdoors photography. It's just that persistent default sharpness wasn't more of a priority than outdoor light capture or outdoor video stabilization
    11-28-2012 11:53 AM
  7. 1mckinley's Avatar
    I have a Nokia 920 for work and an iPhone 4s on Verizon for personal use. I like both phones a lot. I take tons of photos in all sorts of lighting situations. In comparing the two phones, the photos I have taken come out a little more sharp on the 4s. The images on whole come out a little more crisp on the 4s. I'm not saying one camera sucks and one doesn't, I'm just going off my own experience. I've had my 920 for a week or so and my iphone for several months and that could be a factor in this. I enjoy using both of these phones. I look forward to more photo editing apps becoming available for the 920. Does anyone have any favorites?
    11-28-2012 01:35 PM
  8. EliteMikes's Avatar
    I played with the camera a bit last night. I downloaded the Lens sample that MS created. Its about as basic as you can get with the camera. I'm not sure the photos are any sharper though, but I was taking them in a dim lit room using the flash. I'm looking at some sharpening algorithms to apply before the image is saved to the camera roll to see if I can get a better "default" image. I fear some of the issues with sharpness are indeed a firmware issue on Nokia's end. Applying the filter to a soft photo will never create a clean image that we want, but I'll give it a shot. Image manipulation is something I"m completely new to.
    cameradork likes this.
    11-29-2012 09:47 AM
  9. michail71's Avatar
    I took a quick peek through Nokia and MS's API documentation (I know enough about code to be dangerous, but not enough to be useful), and it looks like you do have access to the raw data, so creating a lens that just allows you to capture raw _should_ be a relatively easy thing. Again, there might be something I'm missing, but I'm pretty hopeful that we'll see a more feature-filled camera app at some point. I'd be happy to work with any devs on the idea and design of the app if someone wants to do the bulk of the coding ;)

    The camera hardware in this thing is impressive, and I'm sure with the right software (assuming there's access to all the switches and knobs), it could be fine-tuned to any number of uses.
    I agree. I'd like to try this myself if I had the time as I'm a dotnet developer.

    I've seen mention that the compression rate is rather high on the jpegs. Perhaps that can become an option.

    I'd also like to see toggles for the photo settings added to the screen and the ability to independently lock focus and exposure, like in Camera+ for iOS. Perhaps we can get the Camera+ developers to tackle this. The downfall to Camera+ on the iPhone was it can't integrate with the system camera. The way it works in WP8 could be of great benefit.
    cameradork likes this.
    11-29-2012 09:59 AM
  10. congusano's Avatar
    I played with the camera a bit last night. I downloaded the Lens sample that MS created. Its about as basic as you can get with the camera. I'm not sure the photos are any sharper though, but I was taking them in a dim lit room using the flash. I'm looking at some sharpening algorithms to apply before the image is saved to the camera roll to see if I can get a better "default" image. I fear some of the issues with sharpness are indeed a firmware issue on Nokia's end. Applying the filter to a soft photo will never create a clean image that we want, but I'll give it a shot. Image manipulation is something I"m completely new to.

    What lens sample? Can you provide more information please?
    11-29-2012 10:24 AM
  11. EliteMikes's Avatar
    11-29-2012 10:55 AM
  12. cameradork's Avatar
    I played with the camera a bit last night. I downloaded the Lens sample that MS created. Its about as basic as you can get with the camera. I'm not sure the photos are any sharper though, but I was taking them in a dim lit room using the flash. I'm looking at some sharpening algorithms to apply before the image is saved to the camera roll to see if I can get a better "default" image. I fear some of the issues with sharpness are indeed a firmware issue on Nokia's end. Applying the filter to a soft photo will never create a clean image that we want, but I'll give it a shot. Image manipulation is something I"m completely new to.
    Nokia appears to have its own library of camera-related calls:
    Nokia Lumia Developer's Library

    I also saw this:
    Advanced capture properties for Windows Phone 8

    And this, which says you have access to uncompressed photo data:
    What's new in Windows Phone SDK 8.0

    I'm thinking if I could get uncompressed photos from my phone, I could just do the sharpening and compression in Lightroom...
    Raduc78 and Mr37 like this.
    11-29-2012 11:30 AM
  13. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Uh, how is it that nokia's sample app does everything we would like right now?? I'm just digging into the camera api, I never thought about looking at nokia's docs. I just assumed they would say the exact same think the msdn docs say. Thanks for that.
    cameradork likes this.
    11-29-2012 11:38 AM
  14. cameradork's Avatar
    Uh, how is it that nokia's sample app does everything we would like right now?? I'm just digging into the camera api, I never thought about looking at nokia's docs. I just assumed they would say the exact same think the msdn docs say. Thanks for that.
    Do you have to register (and pay?) and provision the device or something to run it, or can it just be compiled and sideloaded? I'd love to try it out.
    11-29-2012 12:24 PM
  15. EliteMikes's Avatar
    You have to pay or find someone that already has to unlock the phone. It's 100 for the year. At one point recently it was only 9 bucks.
    11-29-2012 12:54 PM
  16. cameradork's Avatar
    You have to pay or find someone that already has to unlock the phone. It's 100 for the year. At one point recently it was only 9 bucks.
    Good to know. I may well spring for that, or just wait for you to release a Pro Camera app and just buy it :D
    11-29-2012 01:37 PM
  17. michail71's Avatar
    I wrote tap tap tap tap, makers of Camera+ a message and begged them to think about making WP8 Camera apps/lenses. I think they are apple only developers though.
    cameradork likes this.
    11-29-2012 04:46 PM
  18. electricessence's Avatar
    I have the iPhone 5 which I tested against the 920, Seems in daylight the 920 turns out a soft picture and does not actually render the picture as you see on the screen. you can actually see it change to a softer pic as it saves and scrolls left. iPhone 5 on the other hand saves the pic correctly. Indoor and night time pics are better on the Lumia 920. Which produces a lot less noise but still soft but very acceptable. IPhone 5 seems to produce pics a tad sharper indoors but produces a lot of noise which does not look very good. Creative studio fixes the issue by bumping up the clarity. but Nokia needs to push out a software update to remedy the issue of saving the pics incorrectly.
    This is EXACTLY what I am experiencing. I have done numerous tests and it is very disheartening that the camera does not live up to the hype. It's an 8.7 MP camera that acts like a 7 MP camera. :(

    What is being done to fix this? Will I just have to suck it up and feel disappointed?
    12-12-2012 08:49 PM
  19. tebugg's Avatar
    This is EXACTLY what I am experiencing. I have done numerous tests and it is very disheartening that the camera does not live up to the hype. It's an 8.7 MP camera that acts like a 7 MP camera. :(

    What is being done to fix this? Will I just have to suck it up and feel disappointed?
    *sigh....we need a sticky that new posters are required to read about things that have already been discussed 100 times. nokia has said they will be bringing out a fix for daytime shots with the camera. no date on when. also, you can use nokia creative studio to add clarity to the pic. it works very well and it's free.
    12-12-2012 08:53 PM
  20. electricessence's Avatar
    100 times maybe, but if I search for "lumia focus" on this forum I have to dig pretty hard to get answers.
    Well, yeah, I think you're right, there needs to be a sticky. Can you reference the material that states what they are doing or what they claim to do?
    I've used creative studio on photos, and it does help, but artificially and makes the photo more grainy. Not a solution, just a hack. And apparently it is not simply a daytime issue, just more obvious and less acceptable in daytime photos.
    12-12-2012 10:13 PM
  21. cameradork's Avatar
    This is EXACTLY what I am experiencing. I have done numerous tests and it is very disheartening that the camera does not live up to the hype. It's an 8.7 MP camera that acts like a 7 MP camera. :(

    What is being done to fix this? Will I just have to suck it up and feel disappointed?
    Allow me to help reset your expectations:

    1. This is a phone, not a camera. If you're the type to do numerous tests and worry about a little quality loss when re-exporting JPEGs after sharpening in post, you should be using a camera instead. I get surprisingly good results when importing my Lumia photos into Lightroom and applying some light sharpening (usually ~+10). It's not, and will never be as good as my Micro 4/3 gear, but it's always on me and is excellent for a phone, and it gets the job done.

    2. This is a brand-spanking new phone with a brand-new OS. I'm sure Nokia is hard at work revising the in-camera processing software for the camera (I've read that they are), but considering it's do-or-die time for the company, I'm sure there are other things that are top of their list. It looks like devs have access to the RAW data from this phone, so it's only a matter of time before someone realizes they can make a bit of money from creating better processing software if Nokia doesn't. If you're not patient and are disappointed when things aren't perfect right out of the gate, this is not the phone for you.
    12-13-2012 09:30 AM
  22. luckylifo's Avatar
    It looks like devs have access to the RAW data from this phone
    I am not sure if this is true. Do you have link to the SDK suggesting it is?
    12-13-2012 09:49 AM
  23. vlad0's Avatar
    . It's an 8.7 MP camera that acts like a 7 MP camera.
    In this case the megapixel count has nothing to do with the quality of the image. Also.. at 7Mpix the pixels would be slightly larger, so you might get better performance from that same sensor.
    12-13-2012 09:52 AM
  24. eortizr's Avatar
    Get an iPhone 5. Excellent camera an any imaginable app.
    12-13-2012 10:11 AM
  25. vlad0's Avatar
    Get an iPhone 5. Excellent camera an any imaginable app.
    Right.. that excellency is directly related to the amount of daylight.. the iphone5 sucks at night, especially the "flash".
    12-13-2012 10:42 AM
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