12-27-2012 02:23 PM
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  1. ammarmalik2011's Avatar
    Also, if what we heard is true that Apollo+ is coming in Feb, then it means Nokia is just going to combine the camera fix with that update for international unlocked phones, that's way too long to wait and what's stopping them from delaying it to March?
    AT&T and Rogers probably paid Nokia to make this update 'exclusive' to them.
    12-20-2012 09:44 AM
  2. Tafsern's Avatar
    I just don't see the reason to make yet ANOTHER thread with the same as others have made before you. This is a forum. Check the threads BEFORE you make another one, so it doesn't have to look so messy.
    Residing likes this.
    12-20-2012 09:48 AM
  3. Huime's Avatar
    1. it is not more cheaper for att
    2. it is just more expensive everything in UK
    3. They said "by feb", I guess you read too much into your native language.
    4. Every brand out there does the same market discrimination.
    5. Why you luck and bye.
    12-20-2012 10:51 AM
  4. Quist2012's Avatar
    I just don't see the reason to make yet ANOTHER thread with the same as others have made before you. This is a forum. Check the threads BEFORE you make another one, so it doesn't have to look so messy.
    I did search. Check the timestamp on when I started the thread. It's the first one specifically addressing the massive update delay.

    Anyway my 920 is reset and packed for a return, but I'm waiting to hear more about how it goes witg the Navifirm offerings. Only problem there is that if I flash one and can't reflash to my original firmware if I don't like it, I'll be stuck and can't return it. I have a bit less than 24 hours to decide.
    12-20-2012 11:17 AM
  5. Quist2012's Avatar
    3. They said "by feb", I guess you read too much into your native language.
    That's wrong. From Nokia Conversations they say "Together with Microsoft, we aim at beginning to deliver these updates to other markets in early February 2013."

    So they won't even be starting until early February.

    Also, just to point out, I'm not in the UK, I'm in Sweden.
    12-20-2012 11:31 AM
  6. MojoDoj0's Avatar
    Did you flash your device using the Switzerland update? I live in Sweden as well.
    12-20-2012 11:35 AM
  7. Quist2012's Avatar
    Did you flash your device using the Switzerland update? I live in Sweden as well.
    No,not yet. Another poster here did and it worked, but turned off 4G. We might have to check which country and operator has the same LTE frequencies and hope that works. I will be waiting until tomorrow to decide.
    12-20-2012 11:47 AM
  8. Saint Michael's Avatar
    Norway here, watching you sweeds with great interest in the result :P
    12-20-2012 11:51 AM
  9. dogfish54's Avatar
    It seems the OP made an incorrect assumption about the unlocked devices getting updates first. In saying that, I don't think you'll be waiting until February.

    There was never any communication from Nokia in regard to paying a premium for an unlocked device and getting special treatment because you paid more. In fact, I think Nokia would rather you get an AT&T branded device. You paid more because you got it through a channel that may have imported the device, this was all your decision.

    If you are mad because of carrier exclusivity and you choose to pay more to get it on your carrier, that is your decision. It feels like people expect Nokia to bend to their every need because they are in tough financial shape. The reality here is that the device is not perfect, neither was the One X, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S3, iphone4, iphone4S, Iphone5 ... need I go on. There is an update in record time. It seems like February is just a placeholder for them to beat, I'd be SHOCKED if you have to wait until February.

    In summary, calm down - I really don't think that it's going to take as long as they are saying. I agree that it's a mistake to say February if it'll really be January, but it will come sooner than you think.
    Residing and TheDvlsAdvc8 like this.
    12-20-2012 12:48 PM
  10. Trappiste's Avatar
    It seems the OP made an incorrect assumption about the unlocked devices getting updates first. In saying that, I don't think you'll be waiting until February.

    There was never any communication from Nokia in regard to paying a premium for an unlocked device and getting special treatment because you paid more. In fact, I think Nokia would rather you get an AT&T branded device. You paid more because you got it through a channel that may have imported the device, this was all your decision.

    If you are mad because of carrier exclusivity and you choose to pay more to get it on your carrier, that is your decision. It feels like people expect Nokia to bend to their every need because they are in tough financial shape. The reality here is that the device is not perfect, neither was the One X, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S3, iphone4, iphone4S, Iphone5 ... need I go on. There is an update in record time. It seems like February is just a placeholder for them to beat, I'd be SHOCKED if you have to wait until February.

    In summary, calm down - I really don't think that it's going to take as long as they are saying. I agree that it's a mistake to say February if it'll really be January, but it will come sooner than you think.
    This post is so riddled with BS that I do not know where to start. Anyway, a hint: Not every damned person lives in the United States of America.

    Even Nokia does not headquarter there. Sounds incredible? It sure is!

    Thanks for listening.
    12-20-2012 12:59 PM
  11. Quist2012's Avatar
    It seems the OP made an incorrect assumption about the unlocked devices getting updates first. In saying that, I don't think you'll be waiting until February.

    There was never any communication from Nokia in regard to paying a premium for an unlocked device and getting special treatment because you paid more. In fact, I think Nokia would rather you get an AT&T branded device. You paid more because you got it through a channel that may have imported the device, this was all your decision.

    If you are mad because of carrier exclusivity and you choose to pay more to get it on your carrier, that is your decision. It feels like people expect Nokia to bend to their every need because they are in tough financial shape. The reality here is that the device is not perfect, neither was the One X, Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S3, iphone4, iphone4S, Iphone5 ... need I go on. There is an update in record time. It seems like February is just a placeholder for them to beat, I'd be SHOCKED if you have to wait until February.

    In summary, calm down - I really don't think that it's going to take as long as they are saying. I agree that it's a mistake to say February if it'll really be January, but it will come sooner than you think.
    Wow, talk about writing a long post without reading the original post or the thread since.

    For one, it is customary for unbranded, unlocked phones to get the latest updates earlier or at the same time as carrier branded phones if for nothing else simply because less work is required to get it ready and passed through QA without any customizations or bloatware. Looking at Nokia's general history of releases, this still holds. My assumption that I would be getting timely updates is not by any means a stretch of the imagination. Moreover, the reason I always try to get unbranded unlocked phones is because I travel alot and a locked phone would be useless for me. I need to be able to pop in a local SIM when landing at the airport and locked phones don't allow that.

    Secondly, why would Nokia want me to buy an AT&T phone when I don't live in the United States? I did what everyone does, bought a phone that works in my local market. Of course, I could have bought an AT&T and imported it (from the US to Sweden) as a private person, but the phone wouldn't have had 4G connectivity because AT&T doesn't use the same LTE frequencies as the rest of the world. So no I did not pay more because I got it through a channel that imported the device. My device is local to my market in every way. It costs more in part because VAT (sales tax) is 25% where I live and in part because even AT&T's prepaid/non-subscription phones were heavily subsidized (compare $700 for the non-VAT international model with $450 for AT&T's). Was my phone imported? Of course, it was imported, so was yours - do you think your AT&T 920 was made in the U.S.?

    Anyway, I too would be shocked if we have to wait until February, but as it stands that's what Nokia is telling us through official channels. Right now, I still have the possibility of returning the phone to get my money back. That opportunity runs out soon. I can wait until February and not bother using one of the major selling points of the phone that the manufacturer openly admits doesn't work the way it was intended to and just hope that the fix rectifies that aspect of the phone. But who knows, I may still not be satisfied with the pictures it produces - will I then be able to return it? No, it will be too late. Can I sell it to get my money back? Sure, but at a major markdown assuming two months' wear-and-tear.

    Last, but not least, how is it that folks that have gotten their update even bother to wade in on a topic that has nothing to do with them just because somebody else is expressing dissatisfaction? Wouldn't you have been dissatisfied if a major fix like this was made available only in Northern Europe or China and you were told it wouldn't be coming to your phone for two months?
    12-20-2012 01:23 PM
  12. Quist2012's Avatar
    Anyway, back on topic. From what I can tell, Orange in Switzerland has not yet launched its LTE (4G) network which is probably why that option is vanishing on their phones. On Navifirm, there is a firmware for Belgium Proximus which has LTE using the 1800 frequency band. I have a hard time thinking that this one shouldn't work in other LTE networks on another RM-821, but have not yet decided whether I'm going to try it or not. My operator (Tele2 Sweden) uses the 900/2600 bands, but I would imagine that a Proximus firmware would still allow for LTE roaming, meaning it wouldn't turn off the other LTE bands in the phone.

    I'll see. I can't try it yet anyway. Have to wait until tomorrow when I'm done with my nightshift.
    12-20-2012 01:32 PM
  13. celikkoseoglu's Avatar
    What nokia doing is completely unacceptable. We want updates now!
    12-20-2012 02:55 PM
  14. dogfish54's Avatar
    Wow, talk about writing a long post without reading the original post or the thread since.

    Last, but not least, how is it that folks that have gotten their update even bother to wade in on a topic that has nothing to do with them just because somebody else is expressing dissatisfaction? Wouldn't you have been dissatisfied if a major fix like this was made available only in Northern Europe or China and you were told it wouldn't be coming to your phone for two months?
    I'd be happy that folks got their update wherever they were and heartened that it's probably coming to me. You are in no different shape to those in Australia. I don't think that Nokia has specifically referred to the unlocked devices in any of their releases mostly carrier branded. For all you know, your update could come tomorrow.

    Why are you so anxious about your return window? If the phone is not what you want, whether the update comes now or later is not important? If you are waiting on the update to see if you like the phone, fair enough, but the update is coming, you either like the phone or you return it and get what you want.
    12-20-2012 02:55 PM
  15. dogfish54's Avatar
    This post is so riddled with BS that I do not know where to start. Anyway, a hint: Not every damned person lives in the United States of America.

    Even Nokia does not headquarter there. Sounds incredible? It sure is!

    Thanks for listening.
    Fair enough, I was venting a little because I am sick of reading threads complaining about some people get headphones for free, some not etc. It's like listening to children who are upset their sibling winning a prize or getting a gift that they didn't.

    I did make the assumption that the OP was in the United States, that was an incorrect assumption. What's funny is that I'm not originally from the USA myself, but I guess you get used to the news being US-Centric.
    12-20-2012 02:58 PM
  16. jdhooghe's Avatar
    All this blaming toward the US...again. And again. And again. How does Canada fit in to your logic? Please tell me.

    EDIT: Look. I would be peeved too. What's getting to me though is this constant anti-US sentiment which makes no sense in light of Canada. We don't know what the **** is going on. We don't know if it's the carriers or what. Calm down because this rage post gets you nowhere. Email Nokia. Call Nokia. Call Microsoft. Do something that would make a difference for god's sake.
    12-20-2012 03:18 PM
  17. Quist2012's Avatar
    All this blaming toward the US...again. And again. And again. How does Canada fit in to your logic? Please tell me.

    EDIT: Look. I would be peeved too. What's getting to me though is this constant anti-US sentiment which makes no sense in light of Canada. We don't know what the **** is going on. We don't know if it's the carriers or what. Calm down because this rage post gets you nowhere. Email Nokia. Call Nokia. Call Microsoft. Do something that would make a difference for god's sake.
    Errrm, whose blaming anything on the US? We were simply reacting to a completely unbalanced situation with regard to this particular update. As an aside, I'm American myself. I have several prepaid accounts in the US that I try to keep active (two with AT&T and one with T-Mobile) and I spend a large part of my year in the States every year. How my life looks is exactly why I would never get a locked phone, here or in the States. Someone said earlier that AT&T surely paid Nokia to get updates first and I'm sure they did. Normally, however, those priority position sales would be limited to the coverage area market, i.e. AT&T before Verizon or Sprint or T-Mobile, but not fully globally. I mean, why would it make a difference if AT&T in the US gets an update before Rogers in Canada or EE in the UK? Even if it did, having a release difference of a few weeks is one thing, but more than two months? The disproportionality of the whole thing is what gets our goat.

    "Do something that would make a difference for god's sake."

    Errm, again, if you look at the posts in between these "friendly discussions" you might notice that I've been trying to get people info on the handful of unreleased Portico versions available on Navifirm. So, on that note, we'll return to the positive discussion we already had before the interruptions...

    ...so I finally managed to install the Belgium Proximus version of the firmware on my unlocked Swedish 920 (RM-821) and it went relatively well. I couldn't manage to get it to work on my 64-bit Windows 7 system, but it all went as planned on my 32-bit Windows 7 computer. I opted to reinstall my backup and ran into a few issues there. Because the backup doesn't save (or didn't for me) the wifi info, a bunch of the apps didn't want to install automatically. I put my local SIM card in and it took a few extra seconds to get the mobile data running. Whereas it said "4G" before, it now says "L" presumably for LTE, but I've speed tested it and I am getting 4G speeds. Also, I had a bunch of apps preinstalled on my original Swedish firmware, installed some with the region/language settings in Swedish and some in US/English, so I had to fiddle with that a bit.Still, a bunch of apps refused to install giving me some 8ffff error or something. That was sorted out by long-press on the download page in the Store and quitting the download. Then I was able to install or update those apps manually no problem.

    As to the improvements, this Belgian firmware has the wifi always on option and the pictures feel a bit better, but I'll have to wait until I get more time to test it and compare it to my other phone cameras.That said, this work around has given my international 920 a new lease on life. Still, just to be sure, I'll be contacting my vendor to see if they've extended their return period for the Christmas holiday so I can make sure I'm certain I want to stick with it.

    Having said all this, I'd just like to mention the fact that had I not felt obliged and free to complain a bit about this and if I hadn't received all the support from a good many of you (THANK YOU!), I wouldn't have found the energy or impetus to get this work around up and running. But now I have the update running on my international 920 with 4G working in spite of how Nokia is handling their official releases. Thanks to all of you who've been supportive! I hope my notes here might give you some options, at least until February.
    weis likes this.
    12-20-2012 05:58 PM
  18. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    OMG! You have to deal with soft pics for 2 months. I don't know how you'll survive. Funny thing is, if they had said everyone's update comes "february 2013", you probably wouldn't be complaining.

    Its not the time, its the fact you wasted money thinking you'd get some earlier update benefit. Oh well, dems the breaks.

    This has to be the whiniest forum I've ever been on.
    12-21-2012 12:30 PM
  19. Quist2012's Avatar
    OMG! You have to deal with soft pics for 2 months. I don't know how you'll survive. Funny thing is, if they had said everyone's update comes "february 2013", you probably wouldn't be complaining.

    Its not the time, its the fact you wasted money thinking you'd get some earlier update benefit. Oh well, dems the breaks.

    This has to be the whiniest forum I've ever been on.
    And what a positive contribution you're apparently making to it. You have really gone out of your way to be demeaning. Cheers.

    On another forum I once said that I wouldn't be keeping the phone if Nokia didn't come out with a fix sometime during the holidays, so yes, I would be complaining if they said everyone's update wouldn't come out until February. The very fact that the phone obviously didn't perform as it claimed to and that Nokia admitted to it was enough to expect a timely fix. Coming out with an update for one region and saying the exact same update wouldn't be coming out for the rest of the world for more than two months just exacerbated the situation.

    I get so sick of all these people complaining about complaining - what? would it be better if we were all mindless fanboys saying "this is the best phone ever and NOTHING needs to be changed to make it any better"? What a rewarding discussion that would be. We could just sit around and talk about how cool we all are.
    Tahiti Bob, ZiCoN_dk, weis and 3 others like this.
    12-21-2012 12:56 PM
  20. Tahiti Bob's Avatar
    In the history of updates, I've never heard of unlocked phones getting updated after carrier-branded ones, let alone two months later. This is a first, and a very poor one. Now seeing people trying to find arguments to defend that is beyond me.
    12-21-2012 01:45 PM
  21. ZiCoN_dk's Avatar
    Doesn't matter.... The world's gonna end in about an hour anyway
    12-21-2012 02:12 PM
  22. dabdoub81's Avatar
    And what a positive contribution you're apparently making to it. You have really gone out of your way to be demeaning. Cheers.

    I get so sick of all these people complaining about complaining - what? would it be better if we were all mindless fanboys saying "this is the best phone ever and NOTHING needs to be changed to make it any better"? What a rewarding discussion that would be. We could just sit around and talk about how cool we all are.
    Just signed in to thank you , so thank you :)
    12-21-2012 03:25 PM
  23. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    And what a positive contribution you're apparently making to it. You have really gone out of your way to be demeaning. Cheers.

    On another forum I once said that I wouldn't be keeping the phone if Nokia didn't come out with a fix sometime during the holidays, so yes, I would be complaining if they said everyone's update wouldn't come out until February. The very fact that the phone obviously didn't perform as it claimed to and that Nokia admitted to it was enough to expect a timely fix. Coming out with an update for one region and saying the exact same update wouldn't be coming out for the rest of the world for more than two months just exacerbated the situation.

    I get so sick of all these people complaining about complaining - what? would it be better if we were all mindless fanboys saying "this is the best phone ever and NOTHING needs to be changed to make it any better"? What a rewarding discussion that would be. We could just sit around and talk about how cool we all are.
    You're complaining that you haven't gotten the update... you're not suggesting something to be changed in the phone. Who knows why you haven't gotten the update, but whining about it is pretty useless... there's nothing there to discuss. That's not an issue of being a fan or not, that's just stupid.

    Its one thing to say you need a notification center and talk about cool ways it could be implemented, but whining about not getting an update yet is just whining. What a rewarding discussion that would be.
    12-27-2012 09:15 AM
  24. Quist2012's Avatar
    You're complaining that you haven't gotten the update... you're not suggesting something to be changed in the phone. Who knows why you haven't gotten the update, but whining about it is pretty useless... there's nothing there to discuss. That's not an issue of being a fan or not, that's just stupid.

    Its one thing to say you need a notification center and talk about cool ways it could be implemented, but whining about not getting an update yet is just whining. What a rewarding discussion that would be.
    I've read this four times now and fail to see any point being made whatsoever. Except to be demeaning, that is. Read the whole thread and all of what's being said here by me and numerous others. Saying that we're "whining" is simply insulting. And I am indeed saying something needs to be changed on the phone - the camera software needs to be fixed along with numerous other issues, but it's not being fixed by the manufacturer in the timeframe promised, if at all.

    Unless you won your phone in a contest, we've all paid a pretty large sum of money for this thing, whether you bought it on contract or not, and what we got simply did not live up to expectations. The manufacturer even acknowledged that fact and promised a timely fix. They then proceeded to expedite that fix for only a portion of their customer base and told everyone else that bought the phone that they would have to live with the admitted shortcomings for more than two months. Why shouldn't we be disappointed and outraged?

    Moreover, if you read the thread, there is helpful information for anyone drawn to the subject line to get the "fix" early. As it is turning out, however, that fix is proving to be a big let down to a lot of us. The international version of the 920 is simply not seeing the massive improvement in images after Portico that the North American version is.

    Lastly, a smartphone is not just a static device, it is an entire package - from the hardware and software provided at purchase/launch to the apps available that can be installed on it to the updates it gets during its lifetime, both app-wise and firmware-wise. When I bought this phone, I trusted Nokia when they said it had an excellent camera. When that later turned out not to be the case, I trusted Nokia when they said they would fix it this month. Instead, they postponed any kind of fix, leaving me to wonder how foolish it was to believe them. Now as it happens, we can flash an update ourselves using unofficial channels - should we really have to do that? Of course not. For those of us that have flashed the fix ourselves, has it fixed most of the issues? Some, but certainly not the camera. Where does that leave us? Well, our return periods have long since passed or will have expired by February when the OTA update was promised. So we've spent $450-850 for a phone, a Nokia PureView phone, that has a subpar camera. Is there anything right about that? No. Are we entitled to be disappointed? Absolutely. Should we refrain from posting about our disappointment in the hopes of finding a solution? Don't be daft, of course not.
    greynightshirt likes this.
    12-27-2012 09:49 AM
  25. TheDvlsAdvc8's Avatar
    Last, but not least, how is it that folks that have gotten their update even bother to wade in on a topic that has nothing to do with them just because somebody else is expressing dissatisfaction? Wouldn't you have been dissatisfied if a major fix like this was made available only in Northern Europe or China and you were told it wouldn't be coming to your phone for two months?
    I had an original AT&T Samsung Focus. I don't think the thing ever got the Tango update. THAT might have been complaint worthy... having to wait of couple months, not so much. I did that too with Mango. What would the point of complaining about this be? To garner sympathy?

    I don't care that you bought a unlocked phone, I don't care that you paid more. I just don't see the point in complaining about a two month wait. Stop complaining and just return the phone if its really a big deal to you.

    I'm not at all surprised that North America has gotten the update first. Its a large homogenous market that generates the vast majority of media/news/reviews... success of windows phone rides more on its success in the US than any other country. That's just how it is. What was surprising was that we were among the last to get the mango update in wp7 - and that fact did a lot of damage to the phone's reputation.

    Just a heads up, but all devices have problems, even with major selling points of the phone. iOS 6 has been available some 4 months and it still periodically loses cellular data connection. It still has bluetooth audio issues. LTE didn't work for many european carriers until the December update. Wifi also had a bug that wasn't fixed until December. You're getting an update within 4 months of launch... it doesn't sound torch and pitchfork worthy to me.
    12-27-2012 09:50 AM
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