03-15-2013 09:29 PM
31 12
tools
  1. xtrip's Avatar
    I know there have have been many threads on the battery topic, but i couldnt really found an answer to the follow issue. I recently got a Satechi 2A car charger with an"quick charge" adapter - Satechi ST-2412 Car Lighter USB Charger Adapter with Smart Converter for iPad 2, iPhone 4, Android Phones, Samsung Galaxy Tab, BlackBerry Playbook, HTC Flyer. The adapter is in fact enabling the cable to act as "Charge only", instead of data & charge. The results are quite spectacular - I get a rate of about 10% per 10 minutes of charging. Moreover, i can use Drive+ and stream music over LTE and phone is still charging on positive (charge intake is higher than consumption). However, I'm noticing a decrease in battery life..., dont have exact numbers yet...but just a general feeling. Also, seems that wireless charging is slower than before. I used to be able to charge the phone in about 2 hours. Now, i kept it about 1.5 hours and went from 40% to only 80%.

    Any ideas? Should i refrain from using the car charger?..or just keep it to when i really need it.
    03-12-2013 09:44 AM
  2. link68759's Avatar
    I have not looked into it myself, but a friend of mine has told me that 2A charging does decrease battery life.

    I do not know the rate at which it deteriorates but if I had to guess, I think it's more likely that you are imagining it and are suffering confirmation bias, or perhaps your battery is of poor quality and would have deteriorated regardless.
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    03-12-2013 09:49 AM
  3. wilsey's Avatar
    Yeap, charging at much higher current will cause damage to your battery, hence reducing its life.
    Always use the charger that comes with the phone as a reference. In this case, Lumia 920's wall charger will have the output of 1 A. Therefore, using 2 A will cause the battery to overheat. So my suggestion is not to use the car charger, unless it's at 1 A or lower.
    Well.. unless you are in a very very emergency situation, it's ok to use it.
    03-12-2013 10:19 AM
  4. realwarder's Avatar
    As the phone manages the charge rate, not the charger, it is impossible for the phone to charge out of spec whatever rating the charger is.

    Secondary to this, the peak charge rate for Li-Ion is typically 2C, which for a 2.1Ah battery, would be a charge rate of 4A. Which a 2A charger will never provide. So whichever way you look at it, you're not going to charge it 'too fast'.
    Bartdog likes this.
    03-12-2013 01:21 PM
  5. rimlover's Avatar
    of course it will damage the better. Frequently Asked Questions about NiMH Battery Chargers, AA and AAA if you have any more questions.
    03-12-2013 02:18 PM
  6. realwarder's Avatar
    of course it will damage the better. Frequently Asked Questions about NiMH Battery Chargers, AA and AAA if you have any more questions.
    If a phone had a NiMH battery in it that link might have some value. But it doesn't.
    03-12-2013 02:58 PM
  7. rimlover's Avatar
    If a phone had a NiMH battery in it that link might have some value. But it doesn't.
    have you taken chem before? there isn't a big difference in how batteries work. the substances are just for the acid-base distribution and the longevity of the battery. NiMH Vs. Lithium Rechargeable Batteries | eHow.com . the general principle is still the same though.
    03-12-2013 03:34 PM
  8. Narse77's Avatar
    Anytime you up the charge rate you are putting extra stress on the battery. It is also good to make sure the battery is not kept at a full charge constantly. The battery needs to drain and recharge some to stay in tip top shape.
    rimlover likes this.
    03-12-2013 03:38 PM
  9. rimlover's Avatar
    Anytime you up the charge rate you are putting extra stress on the battery. It is also good to make sure the battery is not kept at a full charge constantly. The battery needs to drain and recharge some to stay in tip top shape.
    finally someone that has done some chem haha.
    03-12-2013 04:59 PM
  10. Nabkawe5's Avatar
    Whenever I have an issue with a charger (some chargers stop touch screens from responding correctly) I insert my Nokia DC-16 Portable Battery

    once Its fully charged It'll charge my phone , the great thing about it is when I get off the car I could still continue my charging cycle (Improves battery life actually to do so) and its super fast at charging too (Even faster than my wall charger or my Wless charger)
    03-12-2013 07:41 PM
  11. wilsey's Avatar
    As the phone manages the charge rate, not the charger, it is impossible for the phone to charge out of spec whatever rating the charger is.

    Secondary to this, the peak charge rate for Li-Ion is typically 2C, which for a 2.1Ah battery, would be a charge rate of 4A. Which a 2A charger will never provide. So whichever way you look at it, you're not going to charge it 'too fast'.
    The phone does monitor the battery charging. But until how deep, I'm not sure.
    If the phone manage the charge rate, not the charger, then how come if you charge using the wall charger, the battery will fully charge faster than if you charge using the USB port from your computer?
    The charger that comes with the phone charge with output current of 1 A, while charging using the standard USB 2.0 port will give the output of 500 mA (if none other devices are connected to the other USB port)
    And even the Nokia DC 16 portable battery has the output of 950 mA.
    This can be easily proven by doing the testing. If you use the wall charger of 1 A compared it with the charger that output 2 A, the one with 2 A will definitely cause the phone to heat up more. And in the long term it will reduce the battery life.

    And this has been proven by my college friends who did this kind of battery testing. Not only that, in a real world example, people in my country like to use the power bank, that charge the battery at 2 A. And all of them complained that their battery life do not last as long as it used to.
    03-12-2013 11:57 PM
  12. wilsey's Avatar
    Anytime you up the charge rate you are putting extra stress on the battery. It is also good to make sure the battery is not kept at a full charge constantly. The battery needs to drain and recharge some to stay in tip top shape.
    Exactly, if the charge rate is too high, it will put too much stress on the battery. Hence, the reduce lifetime.
    For storage of the Lithium based battery, it is true. The battery must not be fully charged, charge it at around 40 % if the battery is going to be stored for quite some time.
    However, it does not need to be drain and recharge often. Lithium does not have "memory effect". The purpose is just to calibrate the battery reading for the OS to read. As draining the Lithium-based battery, will also put too much stress on the battery. The best practice is too charge whenever you can. We don't need to wait until battery reach low level to charge.
    Draining and Recharging is only useful for NiMH battery as that type of battery has "memory effect". It needs to be drained completely to know where is the low level and then fully charge it to know the top level.
    03-13-2013 12:13 AM
  13. link68759's Avatar
    If the phone manage the charge rate, not the charger, then how come if you charge using the wall charger, the battery will fully charge faster than if you charge using the USB port from your computer?
    The charger that comes with the phone charge with output current of 1 A, while charging using the standard USB 2.0 port will give the output of 500 mA (if none other devices are connected to the other USB port)
    And even the Nokia DC 16 portable battery has the output of 950 mA.

    A computer USB port only supports up to 500mA, so even if the phone is asking for 1A it's only gonna get 500mA....

    That aside, this is a pretty basic principle: a circuit will draw as many Amps as it needs. The phone *can't not* determine the charging rate: that's how electricity works. On a charger, the Amp value is really denoting potential maximum, not at what rate electricity will flow. For example, if a charger is rated for say, 30A, you can safely plug your phone into it and your phone will only draw 1A or 2A.

    So the moral of the story is: if modern phones support 2A charging and that decreases battery life, then the *best* way to take care of your battery is to charge it by your computer only, where the maximum output is 500mA.
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
    03-13-2013 12:44 AM
  14. wilsey's Avatar
    A computer USB port only supports up to 500mA, so even if the phone is asking for 1A it's only gonna get 500mA....

    That aside, this is a pretty basic principle: a circuit will draw as many Amps as it needs. The phone *can't not* determine the charging rate: that's how electricity works. On a charger, the Amp value is really denoting potential maximum, not at what rate electricity will flow. For example, if a charger is rated for say, 30A, you can safely plug your phone into it and your phone will only draw 1A or 2A.

    So the moral of the story is: if modern phones support 2A charging and that decreases battery life, then the *best* way to take care of your battery is to charge it by your computer only, where the maximum output is 500mA.
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
    True, if the phone asks for 1 A, USB 2.0 will only supply 500 mA. But, that's only apply for USB 2.0.
    In USB 3.0, on the Battery Charging Specification, the port can actually handle up to 5 A, but right now the specification limits the current drawn to 1.5 A

    And, yes, it's a pretty basic principle that the load will draw as many current as it needs. But in this case, between the battery and the charger, there are many circuitry in between that will regulate it. So the battery will not just simply draw the current that it needs.
    However, I need to disagree on the part where you can safely use a charger that has 30 A output to charge your phone. It will definitely damage your phone.
    When the charger is rated at 1 A, it is meant to deliver 1 A maximum (assuming 100 % efficiency). It doesn't depend on the load or the battery to draw how many currents.
    At First Stage of Charging, it will supply the maximum current. After it reaches around 70-80 %, then the charger itself with reduce the charging current until it reaches 100 % (2nd stage of Charging). Then the charging will stop.
    And I think the best way is to use the wall charger that comes with the phone or some other charger that can charge the battery with the same current as the wall charger specified. And of course, your suggestion, to charge at 500 mA is the best way to prolong the battery life. As charging with lower current will make the battery last longer, however, I think 500 mA is just not convenient. It takes too long to recharge.
    03-13-2013 03:34 AM
  15. link68759's Avatar
    True, if the phone asks for 1 A, USB 2.0 will only supply 500 mA. But, that's only apply for USB 2.0.
    In USB 3.0, on the Battery Charging Specification, the port can actually handle up to 5 A, but right now the specification limits the current drawn to 1.5 A

    And, yes, it's a pretty basic principle that the load will draw as many current as it needs. But in this case, between the battery and the charger, there are many circuitry in between that will regulate it. So the battery will not just simply draw the current that it needs.
    However, I need to disagree on the part where you can safely use a charger that has 30 A output to charge your phone. It will definitely damage your phone.
    When the charger is rated at 1 A, it is meant to deliver 1 A maximum (assuming 100 % efficiency). It doesn't depend on the load or the battery to draw how many currents.
    At First Stage of Charging, it will supply the maximum current. After it reaches around 70-80 %, then the charger itself with reduce the charging current until it reaches 100 % (2nd stage of Charging). Then the charging will stop.
    And I think the best way is to use the wall charger that comes with the phone or some other charger that can charge the battery with the same current as the wall charger specified. And of course, your suggestion, to charge at 500 mA is the best way to prolong the battery life. As charging with lower current will make the battery last longer, however, I think 500 mA is just not convenient. It takes too long to recharge.

    USB 3 can charge device rapidly given special software, actually. I have a hub that supports rapid charging, but it only turns on for iDevices I think. This is mostly irrelevant because for 99.9% of all scenarios the draw will be 500mA unless the user is able to manually change it.

    "But in this case, between the battery and the charger, there are many circuitry in between that will regulate it. So the battery will not just simply draw the current that it needs."

    The battery doesn't know what it needs, if you hooked it straight to a power source I suspect it would just draw the maximum amount of Amps available. The circuitry is what determines what the draw is and it has been designed to use a designated amount of Amps. So those "many circuitry" between the battery and the power source ARE what regulate what the battery needs. This applies to nearly anything with a battery. Engineers aren't stupid.

    And no, you are simply wrong. If something is rated 1A, it will deliver 1A if requested of it but it will not just pump 1A into anything- *this is not how electricity works*. You're confusing Volts and Amps.

    As far as 500mA being inconvenient- most people leave their phone to charge overnight. Doesn't matter how slow 500mA is then.
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
    03-13-2013 07:29 AM
  16. wilsey's Avatar
    USB 3 can charge device rapidly given special software, actually. I have a hub that supports rapid charging, but it only turns on for iDevices I think. This is mostly irrelevant because for 99.9% of all scenarios the draw will be 500mA unless the user is able to manually change it.

    "But in this case, between the battery and the charger, there are many circuitry in between that will regulate it. So the battery will not just simply draw the current that it needs."

    The battery doesn't know what it needs, if you hooked it straight to a power source I suspect it would just draw the maximum amount of Amps available. The circuitry is what determines what the draw is and it has been designed to use a designated amount of Amps. So those "many circuitry" between the battery and the power source ARE what regulate what the battery needs. This applies to nearly anything with a battery. Engineers aren't stupid.

    And no, you are simply wrong. If something is rated 1A, it will deliver 1A if requested of it but it will not just pump 1A into anything- *this is not how electricity works*. You're confusing Volts and Amps.

    As far as 500mA being inconvenient- most people leave their phone to charge overnight. Doesn't matter how slow 500mA is then.
    Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
    "The circuitry is what determines what the draw is and it has been designed to use a designated amount of Amps. So those "many circuitry" between the battery and the power source ARE what regulate what the battery needs. This applies to nearly anything with a battery. Engineers aren't stupid."
    Isn't that what I said earlier?

    I did not say that it will pump out 1 A into anything. I said it is meant to deliver 1 A of maximum current. Which means, when the circuitry in the charger detects that the battery is in low level (by monitoring the voltage level), it will supply the maximum current it can supply to the battery. Until it detects the battery has reached 70-80% level, then it will slowly reducing the current it supplies to the battery (2nd stage of charging).

    Sorry OP for out of topic a bit
    Hope the explanation from us can be helpful :D
    03-13-2013 09:29 AM
  17. link68759's Avatar
    You're contradicting yourself...

    If the phone determines the rate
    Then the phone determines the charging rate to charge the battery with.

    The maximum Amperage will be drawn by the phone

    Connected to a 30A charger, it will draw 2A. It will never draw more than it is designed to. It can't.

    The charger CANNOT "supply the maximum current" electricity simply does not work that way.


    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    03-13-2013 10:02 AM
  18. wilsey's Avatar
    You're contradicting yourself...

    If the phone determines the rate
    Then the phone determines the charging rate to charge the battery with.

    The maximum Amperage will be drawn by the phone

    Connected to a 30A charger, it will draw 2A. It will never draw more than it is designed to. It can't.

    The charger CANNOT "supply the maximum current" electricity simply does not work that way.


    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    Now.. which part of my statement that I'm contradicting myself?
    What makes you think that the charger cannot supply the maximum current?
    Just try it yourself,
    Plug in 1 A wall charger to your phone, and compare it with the 2 A charger and 500 mA USB 2.0 charging and see which one charge faster.
    03-13-2013 10:30 AM
  19. link68759's Avatar
    Is English your first language?
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    rimlover likes this.
    03-13-2013 11:32 AM
  20. ttxzee's Avatar
    I think using a 2A charger won't have any difference compared to the 1A nokia charger. sure the charger can deliver 2 amps, but the phone is probably configured to only take 1 amp. i'm pretty sure the phone will not take any advantage of 2A charger
    03-13-2013 11:32 AM
  21. rimlover's Avatar
    Now.. which part of my statement that I'm contradicting myself?
    What makes you think that the charger cannot supply the maximum current?
    Just try it yourself,
    Plug in 1 A wall charger to your phone, and compare it with the 2 A charger and 500 mA USB 2.0 charging and see which one charge faster.
    the whole point of a 'fast charger' is to have higher amps. so ya a 2 amp will work faster. i charge my current 9900 (blackberry) with my playbook charger and it chargers so much faster. my battery however, is garbage now because fast charging destroys the battery long term.
    03-13-2013 03:58 PM
  22. rimlover's Avatar
    I think using a 2A charger won't have any difference compared to the 1A nokia charger. sure the charger can deliver 2 amps, but the phone is probably configured to only take 1 amp. i'm pretty sure the phone will not take any advantage of 2A charger
    hahaha it would charge faster. assuming the phone can take more than 1A that is. the higher the amp the faster the charge. same principle in the 'quick charge' stations for electric cars now a days.
    03-13-2013 03:59 PM
  23. rimlover's Avatar
    "The circuitry is what determines what the draw is and it has been designed to use a designated amount of Amps. So those "many circuitry" between the battery and the power source ARE what regulate what the battery needs. This applies to nearly anything with a battery. Engineers aren't stupid."
    Isn't that what I said earlier?

    I did not say that it will pump out 1 A into anything. I said it is meant to deliver 1 A of maximum current. Which means, when the circuitry in the charger detects that the battery is in low level (by monitoring the voltage level), it will supply the maximum current it can supply to the battery. Until it detects the battery has reached 70-80% level, then it will slowly reducing the current it supplies to the battery (2nd stage of charging).

    Sorry OP for out of topic a bit
    Hope the explanation from us can be helpful :D
    are you kidding? do you have a background in physics? i seem to suspect that you don't. if you did, then you would understand that there is a difference between series & parallel circuits. there is also a difference between DC (directional current) & AC (alternating current). most places use AC. do you know why? because the voltage/amps aren't changing among a circuit. example is your house. if i have 6 things plugged into 1 outlet (with a power cord of course) or 1 thing in 1 power outlet, the outage from the outlet will ALWAYS be 120 (in america, 240 in the rest of the world i believe). if the circuit dictates the volts/amps then you would have to do endless math to see what you can plug into the series to get the right volts/amps to the device.
    03-13-2013 04:08 PM
  24. wilsey's Avatar
    Is English your first language?
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    Don't change the subject. Can't point which statement that I'm contradicting myself? If you can show it, then I'll apologize if I made a wrong statement.

    are you kidding? do you have a background in physics? i seem to suspect that you don't. if you did, then you would understand that there is a difference between series & parallel circuits. there is also a difference between DC (directional current) & AC (alternating current). most places use AC. do you know why? because the voltage/amps aren't changing among a circuit. example is your house. if i have 6 things plugged into 1 outlet (with a power cord of course) or 1 thing in 1 power outlet, the outage from the outlet will ALWAYS be 120 (in america, 240 in the rest of the world i believe). if the circuit dictates the volts/amps then you would have to do endless math to see what you can plug into the series to get the right volts/amps to the device.
    Hmm.. assuming is very dangerous. None of your explanation has anything to do with what I mentioned. We are talking about current not voltage.
    But just to enlighten you, voltage in your house can change. For example, if you're in America, the standard household voltage will be 120 V, but if you use a lot of high power devices, the voltage will drop. So it won't always be 120 V. Unless you install a Voltage Regulator in your house, then it will maintain the voltage at 120 V.
    03-13-2013 07:12 PM
  25. link68759's Avatar
    If English isn't you're first language then I'll take the time to explain. Otherwise, meh.
    Sent from my RM-824_nam_att_101 using Board Express
    03-13-2013 07:24 PM
31 12

Similar Threads

  1. Wireless charging and battery life
    By darrenlowjq in forum Nokia Lumia 920
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  2. Can a Windows Phone Match Battery Life of Droid
    By NewPreKnox in forum Windows Phone 8
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-16-2012, 02:19 PM
  3. What sort of battery life can I expect if...
    By Daniel Ratcliffe in forum Nokia Lumia 920
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-14-2012, 07:12 PM
  4. Does wireless charging affect battery life?
    By autumnride in forum Nokia Lumia 920
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-19-2012, 11:48 AM
  5. Charging: USB Cable vs BB Charger & Low battery life
    By collapsed in forum LG Optimus 7
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-16-2012, 09:02 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD