03-17-2013 04:09 AM
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  1. cameradork's Avatar
    :) we have the exact same shot from the de Young...
    I love that building - I try to go there every time I get a new camera or lens

    This shot was pre-Portico, and at 1:1, I agree, there's no comparison. Not sure if post-Portico would be any better, though, since they turned the sharpening way up to try to combat the softness "issue" that so many people were whining about. At scaled-down FB/G+ viewing res (the target for all my shots at least), your sky gradient is quite a bit nicer, but I like my wider FOV more :D
    03-16-2013 11:25 AM
  2. Dratwister's Avatar
    Very nice avatar there.. you excited about the race today/tomorrow (depending where you are).. I know I am :)



    Well, whatever you did, its one of best 920 pics I've see so far in terms of quality.



    :) we have the exact same shot from the de Young...

    your 920

    https://public.blu.livefilestore.com...121230_025.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/jeMypZc.jpg

    my 808

    https://o1elvq.dm1.livefilestore.com...12-30-0702.jpg

    http://i.imgur.com/fy5wcHI.jpg
    Wow wow wow... Now I know why you said previous statements... that 920 photo's totally useless at 100% :| I don't know what's wrong with it, faulty camera? or fault focus? or even too much compression.

    My 920 always delivers me this kind of quality after Portico. It seem like your 920 aggressively reduced noise.


    100%:


    This one's for corner details


    100%:


    Oh, and I confirmed that the light tower photo is captured by default app of WP8 :) cause photo from proShot'll have "proshot" in its name. The one above's from proShot. I always tune the ISO in proShot up from 400 to 800 :D
    Jaripi likes this.
    03-16-2013 12:44 PM
  3. buxz777's Avatar
    ^ this is much better... do you have any more in different lighting ? I looked trough your flickr account, great photography!

    I think Steve shot the 920 with its built in camera app, just like the rest of the phones, but someone should tell him to use a third party.. seems to be better.

    As far as the HTC one... its alright, but to be honest 3Mpix is a bit too small. I was looking at the pics on a 24 inch 1080p display ... you can't even zoom into the pics from the one.

    I think the best compromise in terms of sensor size and pixel size would be the system from the N8. Its @ 1.75 microns/12Mpix, the hump is only a few mm, it can be nicely faded into the design.. if they cut that sensor into 8Mpix instead of 12.. we have a winner.

    And for Symbian.. it works fine for some, and not for others. But to say that Symbian smartphones are not smartphones is simply not true.
    ive used it for donkeys mate back in the day it was the smartest going 7610 , 6630 , 6680 , n73 , n80 , n81 , n85 , n86 , n91 , n95 , n97 , 5800 , n8 , e71 , e72 , e6 , 808 ive owned a lot of Symbian phones but over the years its shown its age .... what I should have said is ''it isn't a very smart smartphone o/s now compared to some but it depends on your useage'' :-)

    for me in Thailand on an adventure it had good points and bad points , but a smartphone for me that gives me a headache when I try to buy stuff from ebay , list an item on ebay , send money via paypal , use internet banking , book a hotel room , keep in touch with loved ones through Skype etc defo isn't the smartest smartphone especially when I have to resort to a pc to get the job done when other operating systems cope with this stuff fine , its not like I was asking it to burn a cd :-) granted it is a great o/s works on minimal resources very well , has true multi tasking , supports great camera hardware and other hardware , can occupy you with a few games here and there , has tv out in both av and hdmi , is secure , etc etc but for my needs it doesn't quite cut it as a modern smartphone o/s I would need another device and Symbian device just for the activitys I mentioned above when really my smartphone should be able to do it with ease , then on some occasions i would need another camera for shots that require more zoom and manual controls where as with a device like the 920/sgs4/etc I would just need that and a high end point and shoot cam with high zoom and manual mode and good optics like the panosonic tz30 canon sx240 hs etc etc as their o/s lets me do the activitys I have listed above with ease and the high end p+s camera would lets face it offer me more funcinallity in taking pictures and still fit in my pocket unlike a dslr :-)

    don't take what I say to heart its just a users opinion and a user who has lived with Symbian since feature pack1 and loved it :-) its all courses for horses and every user is different but I want my smartphone to be able to do simple things like list an item on ebay/internet bank/web bowse/book hotel rooms/use paypal/ etc easily with as little hassle as possible and I found the 808 to be very tedious at these type of activitys :-) that's all :-)

    please don't think I am being down on it like I say I am a Symbian lover and with spit and polish it could be awesome but at the same time in its current form I find it la king for my smartphone activitys :-) on the flip side the 41mp camera is superb and I have some really great shots with so much detail its unreal but again you trade off for things like manual controls and optical zoom :-) for me Symbian at the minute is full of compromises :-)

    I also agree with you about the n8 camera module why nokia haven't used this on other phones is beyond me , I still miss my n8 and 808 now and again but then when I use a friends it can be very tedious after using ios/andoid/windows

    Symbian does some things great other things it makes you want to bang your head against a wall at and even aas steve slitchfield where you post regulary agrees that once people match nokias camera there wont be anything really to stop people making the switch to windows , android , ios its just a case of the best cameras and xenon flash really other phones can do what Symbian does much easier with less headaches and hoop jumping :-)

    back on topic as well (sorry about drifting off I just wanted to clarify what I meant earlier) the 920 I use takes some pretty decent shots , ok not 808 quality but for a phone camera it does me ok , id like it to have xenon flash though , that's what I really miss from my Symbian phones most

    I think if the 920 had a micro sd slot and the n8 camera and flash id be a very happy man , maybe slip hdmi out in there too :-) it would suffice for when I didn't have my sx240 hs with me for sure
    Last edited by buxz777; 03-16-2013 at 01:01 PM.
    03-16-2013 12:47 PM
  4. cameradork's Avatar
    Wow wow wow... Now I know why you said previous statements... that 920 photo's totally useless at 100% :| I don't know what's wrong with it, faulty camera? or fault focus? or even too much compression.
    My de Young shot was taken pre Portico. I also don't care what it looks like at 1:1. All current 1:1 cameraphone crops will always look crappy to me, and I will always find them unsuitable to display. Yes, the 808's 1:1 crop is far superior to the 920's 1:1 crop, but I wouldn't put either of them up for people to see. It's all about the final product, and with my bias toward wide angle, I rarely crop more than maybe 10% of the image out unless I get bad flaring or something. Most of the time I'm happy with my initial framing and post SooC. Because of that, I was plenty happy with the camera in the 920 prior to Portico - the images sharpened up fine when reduced for Facebook or G+ consumption.
    03-16-2013 01:15 PM
  5. vlad0's Avatar
    I love that building - I try to go there every time I get a new camera or lens

    This shot was pre-Portico, and at 1:1, I agree, there's no comparison. Not sure if post-Portico would be any better, though, since they turned the sharpening way up to try to combat the softness "issue" that so many people were whining about. At scaled-down FB/G+ viewing res (the target for all my shots at least), your sky gradient is quite a bit nicer, but I like my wider FOV more :D
    What's not to love.. its beautiful. The bay area in general is a great canvas.. HW1 is full of amazing spots to shoot :) And sure, if you are using 1-2Mpix shots, detail doesn't mater all that much.. DR and color reproduction become much more important. There are many ways to compare image quality, and the most common one is to compare the pixel quality, and the only way to do so is 1:1 .. I am sorry that I took your shot and used it like that, I just got excited by the coincidence.

    In my case, I use a 26 inch 1080p display at home, and when I open a 4-6mpix photo.. its almost at 80% already, so I like clean pixels.

    My 920 always delivers me this kind of quality after Portico. It seem like your 920 aggressively reduced noise.
    Those look good to me.. even at 100%, so whatever you are doing.. you should share your settings/app use here so people can test it out :)

    ive used it for donkeys mate back in the day it was the smartest going 7610 , 6630 , 6680 , n73 , n80 , n81 , n85 , n86 , n91 , n95 , n97 , 5800 , n8 , e71 , e72 , e6 , 808 ive owned a lot of Symbian phones but over the years its shown its age ....
    That's quite the Symbian sample there!

    Yes, I think everyone agrees that Symbian is not perfect.. and not for everyone, but that can be said about most OS systems out there. Its all about what you can make a compromise with, and with what you can't. For example, I use Skype on my 808 all the time and the voice only thing doesn't bother me at all, it will be nice to have it, but its not a deal breaker.

    I just want to point out a general misconception about Symbian. When people say that Symbian is old, they often confuse the Symbian OS with the UI/UX, and are referring to the UI or the SDK.

    The UI is outdated, or rather, Nokia was wayyy to late in porting it from keypad phone oriented to touch based, they got caught off guard by Apple.. and they went into panic mode, which resulted in the infamous S60v5 (N97 fiasco), and it took them years to get to a somewhat modern UI, which is the Belle UX.

    Now, the Symbian kernel is anything but outdated or old, in fact.. its one of the newest architectures currently in use out there. So.. Symbian is really cool underneath, hence.. it can do all kinds of cool stuff like 41Mpix cameras, FM transmitters, crazy low idle power usage, etc.

    Here is a great article on the subject: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1578523

    for anyone that is interested. It was meant for mobile devices from the start, and it shows even today. Its just that Nokia didn't manage the project properly, and they got behind.. and the US software cartel took advantage of the situations and basically took them out. Nokia was trying to avoid becoming an Microsoft OEM for over 10 years, and invested huge amounts of money in doing so, but at the end .. they got'em.

    There is another aspect of the Symbian saga.. its the only "true" European OS. It was developed in England, and it has no connections to Unix, or Win NT.. it is it's own thing. And if you think about it, they (the EU) pretty much have no presence in the consumer OS market.. none.. and I think at one point someone thought it might be a good idea to have at least something going on, and there were going to use Symbian as a base for it:

    Symbian rubbishes 'rebranding' reports ? The Register

    IESE - Face IT – IESE Technology Blog The Symbian bail-out, or how the European Union throws away our money

    But then 2008 rolled in, the economy tanked.. and I guess they scrapped it. Was a good idea ? ehh... I guess its easier to sue Microsoft for their own browser instead.
    03-16-2013 03:05 PM
  6. cameradork's Avatar
    What's not to love.. its beautiful. The bay area in general is a great canvas.. HW1 is full of amazing spots to shoot :)
    Agreed - I live up north in Sonoma County - this whole area has something for everyone :)

    And sure, if you are using 1-2Mpix shots, detail doesn't mater all that much.. DR and color reproduction become much more important.
    Can't ever have enough DR :) Color reproduction is less important to me - I'm very much into abstraction and only very rarely shoot people, and figure I can just color correct in Lightroom if needed. I'm most interested in the intangible "flavor" and character that a particular lens/sensor combo gives (which is difficult to reproduce in post). I don't use Canon or Nikon in the big camera world because they feel too vanilla to me. I prefer the look of Panasonic Micro 4/3 glass and sensors/in camera processing, as well as Fuji's X1-Pro and the ever-unaffordable Leica. Similarly, I don't tend to like Samsung or HTC's components because they feel too plain. The iPhone's is okay, but the Zeiss lenses paired with whatever sensor and software that Nokia sources are my favorites when it comes to phone cams.

    There are many ways to compare image quality, and the most common one is to compare the pixel quality, and the only way to do so is 1:1 .. I am sorry that I took your shot and used it like that, I just got excited by the coincidence.
    Yeah, didn't mean to imply I was bothered by that. I spent a lot of hours doing 1:1 comparisons and going nuts with specs and stuff in the SLR/ILS world before transitioning from a D70s to a D90 to a GF1 to a GH2, so I get it. The quality of each pixel is pretty important with the macro work I do with the P-L45mm, but I guess I've always seen a phone cam as a different tool for a different purpose - disposable images to be shared quickly, get an idea across on someone's phone, tablet or maybe laptop screen, pull in a few comments, and then be shuffled down the feed, out of sight forever. Every once in awhile there's one really worth keeping that gets thrown into a file to show people on this forum what the 920 is capable of when they start complaining.

    In my case, I use a 26 inch 1080p display at home, and when I open a 4-6mpix photo.. its almost at 80% already, so I like clean pixels.
    I have a 27" 2560x1440 Cinema Display for my workstation, but I never view my Lumia pics on it - those always get sorted and posted on my Surface Pro (1600x1200 Toshiba laptop prior to the Pro), which is closer to what my audience for these images will be viewing them on :)
    03-16-2013 03:55 PM
  7. JustToClarify's Avatar
    ive used it for donkeys mate back in the day it was the smartest going 7610 , 6630 , 6680 , n73 , n80 , n81 , n85 , n86 , n91 , n95 , n97 , 5800 , n8 , e71 , e72 , e6 , 808 ive owned a lot of Symbian phones but over the years its shown its age .... what I should have said is ''it isn't a very smart smartphone o/s now compared to some but it depends on your useage'' :-)

    for me in Thailand on an adventure it had good points and bad points , but a smartphone for me that gives me a headache when I try to buy stuff from ebay , list an item on ebay , send money via paypal , use internet banking , book a hotel room , keep in touch with loved ones through Skype etc defo isn't the smartest smartphone especially when I have to resort to a pc to get the job done when other operating systems cope with this stuff fine , its not like I was asking it to burn a cd :-) granted it is a great o/s works on minimal resources very well , has true multi tasking , supports great camera hardware and other hardware , can occupy you with a few games here and there , has tv out in both av and hdmi , is secure , etc etc but for my needs it doesn't quite cut it as a modern smartphone o/s I would need another device and Symbian device just for the activitys I mentioned above when really my smartphone should be able to do it with ease , then on some occasions i would need another camera for shots that require more zoom and manual controls where as with a device like the 920/sgs4/etc I would just need that and a high end point and shoot cam with high zoom and manual mode and good optics like the panosonic tz30 canon sx240 hs etc etc as their o/s lets me do the activitys I have listed above with ease and the high end p+s camera would lets face it offer me more funcinallity in taking pictures and still fit in my pocket unlike a dslr :-)

    don't take what I say to heart its just a users opinion and a user who has lived with Symbian since feature pack1 and loved it :-) its all courses for horses and every user is different but I want my smartphone to be able to do simple things like list an item on ebay/internet bank/web bowse/book hotel rooms/use paypal/ etc easily with as little hassle as possible and I found the 808 to be very tedious at these type of activitys :-) that's all :-)

    please don't think I am being down on it like I say I am a Symbian lover and with spit and polish it could be awesome but at the same time in its current form I find it la king for my smartphone activitys :-) on the flip side the 41mp camera is superb and I have some really great shots with so much detail its unreal but again you trade off for things like manual controls and optical zoom :-) for me Symbian at the minute is full of compromises :-)

    I also agree with you about the n8 camera module why nokia haven't used this on other phones is beyond me , I still miss my n8 and 808 now and again but then when I use a friends it can be very tedious after using ios/andoid/windows

    Symbian does some things great other things it makes you want to bang your head against a wall at and even aas steve slitchfield where you post regulary agrees that once people match nokias camera there wont be anything really to stop people making the switch to windows , android , ios its just a case of the best cameras and xenon flash really other phones can do what Symbian does much easier with less headaches and hoop jumping :-)

    back on topic as well (sorry about drifting off I just wanted to clarify what I meant earlier) the 920 I use takes some pretty decent shots , ok not 808 quality but for a phone camera it does me ok , id like it to have xenon flash though , that's what I really miss from my Symbian phones most

    I think if the 920 had a micro sd slot and the n8 camera and flash id be a very happy man , maybe slip hdmi out in there too :-) it would suffice for when I didn't have my sx240 hs with me for sure
    I bring my netbook wherever I travel, and while my Xperia is quite faster than my Symbian phone in Web activities you mentioned, my netbook is faster even more than that from Xperia(full keyboard, big screen blah blah), so if I already appreciate my time(and nerves) I want to give myself all the comfort I can. Still if your job is trading over the web(and seems it is) and you have to check your trades every few minutes even if you are on holidays than it would be quite inconvenient to turn on/off the netbook(or tablet) every now and then so I fully understand why you appreciate modern smartphones and their capabilites.
    03-16-2013 08:13 PM
  8. Dratwister's Avatar
    Those look good to me.. even at 100%, so whatever you are doing.. you should share your settings/app use here so people can test it out :)
    As I said: with proShot, I cranked the ISO 400-800, leave the rest auto then shoot. In default shooting app of WP8... Well, just Auto. That's all
    03-17-2013 01:05 AM
  9. anthonyng's Avatar
    Wow, didn't realize my n95 holds it's own so well in pictures,... Now gotta find where my 3year old has stashed it!
    03-17-2013 02:24 AM
  10. Huime's Avatar
    As I said: with proShot, I cranked the ISO 400-800, leave the rest auto then shoot. In default shooting app of WP8... Well, just Auto. That's all
    All the flare basically destroyed both images. While you can argue that DLSR will have part of the picture without affected, but for a tiny lens on a phone that is enough to blow the whole picture out of the galaxy.
    03-17-2013 02:42 AM
  11. Dratwister's Avatar
    All the flare basically destroyed both images. While you can argue that DLSR will have part of the picture without affected, but for a tiny lens on a phone that is enough to blow the whole picture out of the galaxy.
    Are we talking about dSLR or talking about camera phone? And in this topic, about picture quality of 920? I didn't say there's any camera phone can take pace with any other devices with bigger sensor or have a complete lens combination on it. So what's your point?

    I'm using dSLR as well and believe me, I'm already knew that the gap between it and 920 is very big. my only concern, which brought me to this topic is the absurd image quality from 920 in the article, and I'd argue very much about it with anyone :) Don't you see the differences? or my screen was tricking my eyes?

    About flaring, yah, I know the flare's bad in those photos, didn't expect better from a camera phone anw, do you?
    Same place, same time, different device (not 920 of course)


    P.S: I'm sorry if I got your comment wrong... Still don't know your point
    03-17-2013 04:09 AM
36 12

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