03-19-2013 03:07 PM
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  1. uselessrobot's Avatar
    I've been seeing a lot of people misinterpreting this story to suggest Microsoft is going to abandon Windows Phone entirely. Some are really blowing it out of proportion, presumably to bolster their own anti-Microsoft biases.
    03-18-2013 11:55 AM
  2. futurix's Avatar
    But I think 8.5 is going to be a major change and thus supporting a 8.0/7.0/7.5 will be pointless.
    8.5 won't be a major change - the clue is in the version number...
    03-18-2013 12:05 PM
  3. theomodsim's Avatar
    8.5 won't be a major change - the clue is in the version number...
    When it comes to Microsoft, you can't judge the amount of change solely on the version number. For example, Vista is Windows 6.0, Windows 7 is 6.1, and Windows 8 is 6.2. I think anyone would agree that Vista and Windows 8 look and function entirely different (and would therefore warrant a bunch in major version number), but their version numbers differ by minor version only.
    03-18-2013 12:37 PM
  4. dkp23's Avatar
    Dont see what the issue is here, assuming the carriers allow upgradable OS to all existing phones.

    What this means is wp8 OS as we see right now will be supported for 18 months and at that time, there will be a new OS WP9/Blue or whatever they want to call it and that Os will trigger another 18 month cycle and so forth.

    THis is niot saying wp8 as we see it now will not be updated in 18 months time, what i beleive it is saying is after 18 months, there will be a new version of the OS which will likely be blue that will take over and be another 18 month cycle. According to MS all current devices should be able to upgrade to a new versionof the OS, the question now is, will the carriers allow it.
    03-18-2013 12:46 PM
  5. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    I know many people for whom WP7 features are more than enough.
    I'd go further than that and say I prefer WP7.5 to 8, mostly because of the loss of Zune on the phone and for syncing. If I could put Mango on my HTC 8S I would do it in a heartbeat.
    a5cent likes this.
    03-18-2013 02:04 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    In never ceases to amaze me, how some people will twist statements in their minds, for the sake of hearing what they want to hear.

    This is what Microsoft published:

    Products Released
    Lifecycle Start Date
    Mainstream Support End Date
    Extended Support End Date
    Windows Phone 7.8 09/02/2013 09/09/2014
    Review Note
    Windows Phone 8 14/12/2012 08/07/2014
    Review Note
    Microsoft also noted the following:

    "Microsoft will make updates available for the OS on your phone, including security updates, for a period of 18 months after the lifecycle start date. Distribution of the updates may be controlled by the mobile operator or the phone manufacturer from which you purchased your phone. Update availability will also vary by country, region, and hardware capabilities."

    That is all. Nowhere does it say anything about WP8 devices being upgraded to a hypothetical next major version of WP. Microsoft states only that they will provide updates. Again, that is no different from what W7.x is experiencing today. Windows 7.x continues to get updates, while WP8 continues along its own track.

    Although I think it is extremely nave, what people really want to hear is something along the lines of: "WP8 devices will be upgradable to the next major version of WP." How hard can it be to say just that? It would instantly put all these discussions to rest, yet Microsoft isn't saying that. Why not?

    I'll leave it at that.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-18-2013 at 03:04 PM. Reason: spelling only
    Cleavitt76 likes this.
    03-18-2013 02:16 PM
  7. Tomanband's Avatar
    03-18-2013 02:29 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    I speak a few languages, one of them being German. The German article is more or less a translation of what WPC had already posted.

    The line "WP8 is upgradable unlike WP7" was added by editors. That is just interpretation. I prefer to look at what Microsoft's own representatives actually said. What Greg Sullivan actually did say, is "WP8 will have an upgrade path" and "WP8 will be upgradable for 18 months". I'm not sure what you are implying, but as far as I can tell, Greg Sullivan isn't implying anything specific, and his statements certainly don't imply 80% of the things editors are attributing to it.

    Edit: I think Greg Sullivan's statements are exactly the same thing Microsoft just published on their lifecycle support page. No more, no less.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-18-2013 at 03:11 PM. Reason: see edit
    03-18-2013 02:48 PM
  9. mlm1950's Avatar
    In never ceases to amaze me, how some people will twist statement in their minds, for the sake of hearing what they want to hear..
    And yet, you continue to fall victim to the phenomenon.
    03-18-2013 02:50 PM
  10. zc1's Avatar
    Dear Media

    "The report of my death was an exaggeration"

    Love,

    WP
    (channeling Mark Twain)
    03-18-2013 02:50 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    And yet, you continue to fall victim to the phenomenon.
    Please get back to me when you have an argument to make.
    03-18-2013 02:53 PM
  12. jfa1's Avatar
    Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Windows 8 Phone forum? Please
    03-18-2013 03:05 PM
  13. Nikumba's Avatar
    I thought the whole point of moving over to an NT Kernel was to allow the new phones to be updated.

    The swap of Kernels is the only reason why the old 7 phones couldnt be upgraded as I understand it
    Mahdi Ghiasi likes this.
    03-18-2013 03:47 PM
  14. dkp23's Avatar

    Although I think it is extremely nave, what people really want to hear is something along the lines of: "WP8 devices will be upgradable to the next major version of WP." How hard can it be to say just that? It would instantly put all these discussions to rest, yet Microsoft isn't saying that. Why not?

    I'll leave it at that.
    It is very clear why they can not come out and say all current devices will be upgradable. The reason is not they can not guarantee that it will be, all current wp8 devices ARE able to upgrade to the newest OS version whatever it be Blue or WP9 according some MS guy a few weeks ago, that isn't the question at this point, the question now is if the carriers will allow it. MS can not say IT WILL since they are not sure if the carrier will push it out.

    THey are in the same predicament now with Tmobile i think not pushing out 7.8 for Lumia 710s, would MS want 7.8 on 710s? Sure, but will it? Based on Tmobiles decision, it wont. Can all current wp7 devices get 7.8? Yes it can, but will it?? Depends on the carrier and again, which is why MS can't come out and say it.

    What i think will happen all current high end devices you see today (lumia 920 and 8x) and any future high end devices from whomever OEM will get an upgrade to the newest version of the OS, then the mid to low range will be a flip of a coin.
    03-18-2013 03:55 PM
  15. Aggemam's Avatar
    03-18-2013 04:03 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    The swap of Kernels is the only reason why the old 7 phones couldnt be upgraded as I understand it
    Based on how many times that statement was repeated across the web, you certainly might think so, but it is complete BS anyway.

    You can search around the web and find WP8 ROM's for the HTC HD2 (example). The HTC HD2 ships with the exact same SoC used in many Gen1 WP7 devices (HTC HD7, Dell Venue Pro, Omnia). This was accomplished not just be one, but many ROM hackers all over the world. If so many people were able to get WP8 running on what amounts to Gen1 WP7 hardware, then so can Microsoft. They just had other (good) reasons not to. A more academic explanation can be found here.
    03-18-2013 04:28 PM
  17. WavingReds's Avatar
    I hope we get a really awesome wake party!
    03-18-2013 04:54 PM
  18. MrXiqbal's Avatar
    Why is this a huge issue? Take iOS as an example, every year when they launh their ''new'' iOS they always keep out some key features or even major update for the older devices because phones cant handle the update. In this case, MS will be updating their OS and they & partners would defo want people to buy new phones with new features to earn money. Simple as that! Dont panic people, it is just business :)

    ...and even if they do release a HUGE updater later on, hackers will probably be able to make ROM for it to be installed on Lumia 920 for example!
    03-18-2013 04:59 PM
  19. WavingReds's Avatar
    Why is this a huge issue? Take iOS as an example, every year when they launh their ''new'' iOS they always keep out some key features or even major update for the older devices because phones cant handle the update. In this case, MS will be updating their OS and they & partners would defo want people to buy new phones with new features to earn money. Simple as that! Dont panic people, it is just business :)

    ...and even if they do release a HUGE updater later on, hackers will probably be able to make ROM for it to be installed on Lumia 920 for example!
    people also forget about the blackberries devices and their OS updates, /whistles
    03-18-2013 05:04 PM
  20. ChMar's Avatar
    Why is this a huge issue? Take iOS as an example, every year when they launh their ''new'' iOS they always keep out some key features or even major update for the older devices because phones cant handle the update. In this case, MS will be updating their OS and they & partners would defo want people to buy new phones with new features to earn money. Simple as that! Dont panic people, it is just business :)

    ...and even if they do release a HUGE updater later on, hackers will probably be able to make ROM for it to be installed on Lumia 920 for example!
    And people forget that apple controls their devices. Any major update made by MS (changing kernel) means all the OEMs and carriers must redo their drivers, update their apps, make tons of tests before releasing the update to the masses. It's too much of an effor for something people are not even able to notice. What feature from windows 8 are the owners of wp7 missing?
    03-18-2013 05:13 PM
  21. Devamps's Avatar
    03-18-2013 05:55 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    All current wp8 devices ARE able to upgrade to the newest OS version whatever it be Blue or WP9 according some MS guy a few weeks ago, that isn't the question at this point.
    That MS guy is likely Greg Sullivan. I quoted him in the post six above yours (#33). He never actually said the things you think he did. Your take on this issue is a popular one, but it is just one of those things that gets repeated on blogs and forums all over the place, despite being completely wrong.

    What people really want to hear is something along the lines of: "WP8 devices will be upgradable to the next major version of WP." How hard can it be to say just that?
    It is very clear why they can not come out and say all current devices will be upgradable. The reason is they can not guarantee that it will be. <snipped> The question now is if the carriers will allow it. MS can not say IT WILL since they are not sure if the carrier will push it out.
    Then why not just mention that caveat explicitly instead of all the ridiculous vagueness? In fact, Microsoft already uses a "protection clause" for the scenario you mentioned. It isn't rocket science to extend my own sentence accordingly:

    "WP8 devices will be upgradable to the next major version of WP. However, distribution of the upgrade may be controlled by the mobile operator or the phone manufacturer..."

    You think Microsoft has a clear reason for being so vague, while I think that reason is at best a poor excuse. Microsoft isn't being vague because they can't be precise, but because they don't want to be.

    I think that was one of the better explanations as to what is going on. But notice the part about updating to WP9? Just as with every other tech site, it's all "ifs", "coulds" and "woulds". Why? Because Microsoft's product lifecycle doesn't actually say anything specific about upgrades, particularly not about major version upgrades. Every single tech blogger is vague on this issue. That certainly isn't a coincidence, right?

    Note also, that Microsoft has silently stopped incrementing their version numbers. Portico (GDR1) wasn't WP8.1... it is still WP8. According to Marry J Foley, GDR3, which is expected around Q4 2013, will also carry the exact same public version number... just WP8. Why has Microsoft changed the version numbering scheme for WP8? What happened? For one thing, by not updating the version number, the clock keeps running on that 18 month support cycle... you tell me why Microsoft may want to do that.

    Why is this a huge issue?
    WP8 will get many updates over the next year. That is great. I don't think anybody need fret over that or postpone buying a WP8 device due to update concerns. That isn't an issue.

    What I do want is better communication from Microsoft. I want them to communicate clearly what they are planning to do and why. Currently, they aren't doing either.
    03-18-2013 06:13 PM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    Okay, that is an even better explanation! :-) Basically, same thing I'm saying... the lifecycle support period says nothing about specific updates a device may or may not get.
    03-18-2013 06:25 PM
  24. Devamps's Avatar
    Yeah
    Okay, that is an even better explanation! :-) Basically, same thing I'm saying... the lifecycle support period says nothing about specific updates a device may or may not get.
    03-18-2013 06:29 PM
  25. nessinhaw's Avatar
    i'm pretty sure all WP8 devices will be upgradable to WP9...everyone seems to forget the reason WP7 phones couldn't get WP8 is a hardware issue, since now WP basically uses the same kernel as Windows PC...and just look at Android, how many devices run JB? many OEMs got their 2011-2012 phones stuck on Gingerbread-ICS cause they claim hardware prevents such phones from getting JB (at least that's the excuse Sony used for their devices, which was pretty lame cause Xperia J has a weaker hardware spec than Xperia Mini and Xperia Arc S and still got the JB update) and i dont see anyone making drama about it! basically if you want a JB phone which runs COMPLETETY smooth, no lag, no bugs, you have to buy a new one! high-end! so why everyone points their fingers at MS?

    oh and another thing...the upgrades to ICS/JB are pretty slow! many devices are still on the list!
    and last time i checked, GB still owns the biggest portion of Android world!
    03-18-2013 06:59 PM
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