[rimlover]

doesn't ATT and nokia have an exclusivity? i mean i get the 928 is not going to be the same as the 920 but i mean that most bother ATT. like that's just a back stab. the word exclusive means that they're going to be sole partner for that time. if this phone comes out before june (when the ATT exclusivity runs out) then i honestly will be bothered for 2 reasons. 1) that's a low blow to ATT to change it up a bit and call it different so the word 'exclusive' doesn't matter. the second reason (which is the most important reason) is what the heck is nokia doing? if they keep to different versions of their top of the line then what's the refresh cycle going to look like? different on each carrier? that just sounds dumb from the point of lack of unity in the release structure. so in september what happens? ATT gets the updated version of the 920? why fragment the top of the line? just my thoughts. i really hope this won't come out until the refresh of the 920 comes out.

[halamadridkimi]

oh please, just be happy finally nokia gets an flagship on verizon, usas largest.... it has already been 5 months from release of nokia lumia 920 on ATT, so in april it will be 6 months and the exclusive deal was for 6 months.. it would be an bad move if nokia released 6 months later an old device for them, so it needed to be updated, and another thing why there is so many variants because some carriers want their unique phone in usa, and nokia isnt in that position of samsung or apple to get all carriers along .. but will be hopefully in future.

[a5cent]

why fragment the top of the line?

It's not fragmentation. Every single Lumia device is essentially the exact same phone wrapped in different clothing, with some minor changes to peripheral hardware that make no difference to app or OS developers. If app and OS developers can't tell it's fragmented, then it isn't fragmented.

It is my understanding that exclusivity applies to a specific device. If it applied to business relationships, then Verizon wouldn't even have the Lumia 822 on offer.

[rimlover]

oh please, just be happy finally nokia gets an flagship on verizon, usas largest.... it has already been 5 months from release of nokia lumia 920 on ATT, so in april it will be 6 months and the exclusive deal was for 6 months.. it would be an bad move if nokia released 6 months later an old device for them, so it needed to be updated, and another thing why there is so many variants because some carriers want their unique phone in usa, and nokia isnt in that position of samsung or apple to get all carriers along .. but will be hopefully in future.

if it's been 6 months then they shouldn't launch a completely new phone. small modifications i would understand. plus like i said before, what are they going to do for ATT in the next new months when the 920 becomes old? copy the same features as the verizon phone and call it the 1000? that's dumb marketing. far too many products to market versus say 5 and just have carrier specific models. apple is doing it, samsung, htc, you name it and they're doing it. no one wants to fragment their OWN hardware just doesn't make sense from advertisement point of view same with supply chain. hire more companies to build a new phone? that's a naive approach. HTC X is on multiple carrier but still called HTC X. "it needs to be upgraded" shouldn't be a factor? if they get the hardware right from the get go they don't have to upgrade anything for a 1 year minimum (i.e. apple and their specs. dual core, tri-graphics card, incredible build quality. at least in terms physical phone. it doesn't have issues).

[rimlover]

It's not fragmentation. Every single Lumia device is essentially the exact same phone wrapped in different clothing, with some minor changes to peripheral hardware that make no difference to app or OS developers. If app and OS developers can't tell it's fragmented, then it isn't fragmented.

It is my understanding that exclusivity applies to a specific device. If it applied to business relationships, then Verizon wouldn't even have the Lumia 822 on offer.

first of all the 820 isn't exclusive to ATT hence the 822. in my opinion i think they should have called it the 820 as well. imagine this: ask an iphone users on att what their phone is and they say "oh its the iphone 5.2", ask some one on verizone and you get "oh the iphone 5.3", that's fragmentation. i have a friend that has the samsung S3 and i asked him what it was running (knowing it was android) he said oh samsung. most people can't differentiate with all this long. another example would be this. if your friend asks you what phone you have and you say oh the 820 and they go to verizone and say i want they 820 by nokia and verizone says they don't carry it what do you think is going to be the first response from your friend? nokia sucks for making me having to switch carriers to get that phone. it's bad on so many levels for nokia. now for their current line of phones, it's not the same. the lumia 920 has a unibody the 720, 520 don't (or whatever they're called). not to mention fitting a specific screen or a camera. that's not easy to do. so it's not the same phone wrapped in different clothing.

[hopmedic]

doesn't ATT and nokia have an exclusivity? i mean i get the 928 is not going to be the same as the 920 but i mean that most bother ATT. like that's just a back stab. the word exclusive means that they're going to be sole partner for that time. if this phone comes out before june (when the ATT exclusivity runs out) then i honestly will be bothered for 2 reasons. 1) that's a low blow to ATT to change it up a bit and call it different so the word 'exclusive' doesn't matter. the second reason (which is the most important reason) is what the heck is nokia doing? if they keep to different versions of their top of the line then what's the refresh cycle going to look like? different on each carrier? that just sounds dumb from the point of lack of unity in the release structure. so in september what happens? ATT gets the updated version of the 920? why fragment the top of the line? just my thoughts. i really hope this won't come out until the refresh of the 920 comes out.

All of this depends..... Can you tell us what the contract between Nokia and ATT says about it?

[Laura Knotek]

AT&T will probably get a new Lumia device this fall.

[Zeroplanetz]

I don't care what Verizon gets or att new when ever flagship is. I love my 920!!!! Glad I had the chance to get it when I did. Launch day baby!!!

[Narse77]

Don't be jealous! More WP8 hardware for more carriers is a good thing for all of us. There will always be the next big thing and better hardware a few months after you get your shiny new device.

[T Moore]

I don't care. Verizon getting a top line Lumia is good.

[rimlover]

AT&T will probably get a new Lumia device this fall.

hence my point about the fragmentation.

[akar33]

hence my point about the fragmentation.

I don't think you even understand what the word "fragmentation" means. You're just throwing it around like the others on this forum when they don't get what they want viz. Nokia exclusive apps, hero phone, micro SD, wireless charging, games. All these objects have been the subject of fragmentation complaints.

[Vallos]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't fragmentation really an issue from a software point of view?

[akar33]

The thing is, there is *no* fragmentation. All phones run the same OS. This is not the case with android. Using "fragmentation" for WP is like saying fragmentation for desktop Windows. OEMs bundle exclusive apps, high-end games don't run on netbooks, some PCs have USB 3.0 and some have 2.0 etc.

For WP OEMs too, all they can differentiate is using their exclusive apps/unique hardware to entice customers to choose their products. If all windows phones looked the same, performed the same and had the same set of default apps, why would you choose one brand over the other? Since there are multiple OEMs, they all need to do something different to attract people. HTC has the slim form-factor, Nokia have their camera and (not so) exclusive apps. The onus of deciding now lies on you....which one will you choose? Your answer will depend on what you are looking for in a phone. All of them provide the same OS and have, for the most part, the same experience. It all depends on the last mile. My choice may not be the same as your choice.

The ONLY "fragmentation" I can see is WP 7.x vs. WP 8.x.

[kishorekumar_a]

As I understand it, the fragmentation of android is that it has too many different resolutions and os versions on different phones. Which means when a developer writes a software he has to write it such that the software works on all devices, which is very difficult. Bring in the fact that in each resolutions there are devices with different os versions, that increases the number of unique devices for the developer to address. As for WP however there are only 4 different resolutions and two different os versions, totalling to 8 unique combinations. However incase of android the combinations are very high to address. Hence any single app cannot address all the unique combinations, that's uncontrolled fragmentation. However iOS developers have to address only one single resolution all along and now two resolutions only, hence developers love working for iOS. However that left iOS with limited choices in phone sizes. So WP is some where inbetween iOS and Android with a balance between choices and easy development. So WP is not fragmented and will never fragmented if the new 18 month update support promise of microsoft is followed. That's my 2 cents...:-)

[Vallos]

The thing is, there is *no* fragmentation. All phones run the same OS...The ONLY "fragmentation" I can see is WP 7.x vs. WP 8.x.

...So WP is not fragmented and will never fragmented if the new 18 month update support promise of microsoft is followed. That's my 2 cents...:-)

Thanks. My question was to spur answers for rimlover's benefit.

[Gungzwei]

People keep throwing around the "6 month exclusivity deal with AT&T and Nokia" like it's a fact. It was only speculation, at best.

Plus while most were 2nd gen WP7 and WP8, us poor Verizon slobs had to make do with nothing but a 1st gen Trophy.
I think a little love and support is in order.

[hopmedic]

As I understand it, the fragmentation of android is that it has too many different resolutions and os versions on different phones. Which means when a developer writes a software he has to write it such that the software works on all devices, which is very difficult. Bring in the fact that in each resolutions there are devices with different os versions, that increases the number of unique devices for the developer to address. As for WP however there are only 4 different resolutions and two different os versions, totalling to 8 unique combinations. However incase of android the combinations are very high to address. Hence any single app cannot address all the unique combinations, that's uncontrolled fragmentation. However iOS developers have to address only one single resolution all along and now two resolutions only, hence developers love working for iOS. However that left iOS with limited choices in phone sizes. So WP is some where inbetween iOS and Android with a balance between choices and easy development. So WP is not fragmented and will never fragmented if the new 18 month update support promise of microsoft is followed. That's my 2 cents...:-)

This is all good, but I will offer one correction and other added thoughts... The correction is that until Microsoft adds 1080p, which won't really be a surprise, there are only three resolutions. 480x800 (WP7x devices, 822, 8s, and low-end Lumias), 1280x768 (922), and 1280x720 (8x).

As for developing, a developer does not *have* to develop covering all three resolutions. If he only writes for one, the app will work. It may not look the same, but it will work. The easiest way, in my opinion (and the way I'm doing it), is instead of laying out the screen by pixels is to do it by ratio. My apps will look the same on all three screens, and all I had to do to cover them all equally was to check a couple of checkboxes. Otherwise, I believe you'll get the black bands at top and bottom of the screen. Now I'm referring to the xaml apps, or apps that are laid out using xaml, which most of your non-game apps are going to be, at least for now (there are a couple different ways to develop for the phone). I've only used this method of developing for the phone, so I can't speak for the others. I'm also not speaking for games, as I've never developed one. Basically, though, the phone will adapt if the developer didn't.

As for the fragmentation between WP7 and WP8, yes, there is fragmentation in that respect, because anytime you add capabilities to something, the old equipment won't run the apps that use those capabilites. WP8 will run *most* WP7 apps without any problems, but making apps for WP8 that will run on WP7 is more of a challenge.

[rimlover]

Don't be jealous! More WP8 hardware for more carriers is a good thing for all of us. There will always be the next big thing and better hardware a few months after you get your shiny new device.

i'm sorry you read my comment and saw jealousy in it. that is far from the truth. what i was talking about is the point of view from a marketing/supply chain of view it doesn't make sense. this is more magnified by the fact that nokia is doing horrible in terms of sales.

[rimlover]

I don't think you even understand what the word "fragmentation" means. You're just throwing it around like the others on this forum when they don't get what they want viz. Nokia exclusive apps, hero phone, micro SD, wireless charging, games. All these objects have been the subject of fragmentation complaints.

fragmentation [ frgmən tysh'n ]
breaking up of something: the process of shattering or breaking up into fragments
loss of unity and cohesion: the loss of unity and cohesion and the splitting of something into isolated and often conflicting parts
shattering of explosive device: the scattering of the shattered parts of a grenade or other explosive device

that defines the word. so now examine the second definition and you'll understand what i mean. "loss of unity and cohesion", which is something nokia badly needs. it's not logical to advertise a million products and spend specific time and R&D into each carrier. as i said before, apple, samsung and htc (not to mention almost all other phone manufacturers) produce a product and launch it on different networks with no to very slight changes (mostly the radio antenna to work on those specific bands).

[rimlover]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't fragmentation really an issue from a software point of view?

fragmentation [ frgmən tysh'n ]
breaking up of something: the process of shattering or breaking up into fragments
loss of unity and cohesion: the loss of unity and cohesion and the splitting of something into isolated and often conflicting parts
shattering of explosive device: the scattering of the shattered parts of a grenade or other explosive device

not necessarily. it depends which context it's used it. the fragmentation i mean is in terms of resources (time, money, man power etc) that nokia is deploying to each carrier.

[rimlover]

The thing is, there is *no* fragmentation. All phones run the same OS. This is not the case with android. Using "fragmentation" for WP is like saying fragmentation for desktop Windows. OEMs bundle exclusive apps, high-end games don't run on netbooks, some PCs have USB 3.0 and some have 2.0 etc.

For WP OEMs too, all they can differentiate is using their exclusive apps/unique hardware to entice customers to choose their products. If all windows phones looked the same, performed the same and had the same set of default apps, why would you choose one brand over the other? Since there are multiple OEMs, they all need to do something different to attract people. HTC has the slim form-factor, Nokia have their camera and (not so) exclusive apps. The onus of deciding now lies on you....which one will you choose? Your answer will depend on what you are looking for in a phone. All of them provide the same OS and have, for the most part, the same experience. It all depends on the last mile. My choice may not be the same as your choice.

The ONLY "fragmentation" I can see is WP 7.x vs. WP 8.x.

i think i wrote this a million times by now. i mean fragmentation in time and money spent by nokia for carrier specific handsets.

[Gungzwei]

i'm sorry you read my comment and saw jealousy in it. that is far from the truth. what i was talking about is the point of view from a marketing/supply chain of view it doesn't make sense. this is more magnified by the fact that nokia is doing horrible in terms of sales.

Nokia has done very well for several decades by offering a device for every price point. I don't think they will suffer by having too many choices. Nokia still has more cellphones in the wild than any other manufacturer. And with smart phones expected to outsell feature phones for the first time, this year, I think it positions them well for a full recover.

Where do you get the idea of Nokia doing 'horrible' for sales? They have sold out of just about every device they have launched, recently. With the 720 and 520 coming out and the 928 hitting Verizon, you'll start to see some major turnaround numbers. There are currently MORE Lumia 822s sold than there are AT&T 920s.

Plus all of the awards and notice that Nokia/WP8 a starting to garner, Nokia will start meeting and exceeding sales targets this year.

[PicodeGalla]

doesn't ATT and nokia have an exclusivity? i mean i get the 928 is not going to be the same as the 920 but i mean that most bother ATT. like that's just a back stab. the word exclusive means that they're going to be sole partner for that time. if this phone comes out before june (when the ATT exclusivity runs out) then i honestly will be bothered for 2 reasons. 1) that's a low blow to ATT to change it up a bit and call it different so the word 'exclusive' doesn't matter. the second reason (which is the most important reason) is what the heck is nokia doing? if they keep to different versions of their top of the line then what's the refresh cycle going to look like? different on each carrier? that just sounds dumb from the point of lack of unity in the release structure. so in september what happens? ATT gets the updated version of the 920? why fragment the top of the line? just my thoughts. i really hope this won't come out until the refresh of the 920 comes out.

Who cares, we are the little people and we constantly get wallet raped by large corporation and after they are done with us, all we say is "more please" with out actually doing anything about it. They know humans are dumb and will buy anything that is new and shiny even if there old product is a week old. I don't know where this zombie attitude of "must have new things" came from but it is why they do what they do and if you don't agree with me that humans are dumb than lets get together and change this mofo!!

Sorry I am little mad, i just want to use my 920 on Tmobile but nooooooooooooooooooo AT$T wants exclusivity rights!! F them I am not going to pay double for the same crap service. This is me complaining about my "wallet raping"!! With out any lube...they tore the plastic on my Drivers license holder. It ain't rape if you like it...just sayin'!

[rimlover]

Nokia has done very well for several decades by offering a device for every price point. I don't think they will suffer by having too many choices. Nokia still has more cellphones in the wild than any other manufacturer. And with smart phones expected to outsell feature phones for the first time, this year, I think it positions them well for a full recover.

Where do you get the idea of Nokia doing 'horrible' for sales? They have sold out of just about every device they have launched, recently. With the 720 and 520 coming out and the 928 hitting Verizon, you'll start to see some major turnaround numbers. There are currently MORE Lumia 822s sold than there are AT&T 920s.

Plus all of the awards and notice that Nokia/WP8 a starting to garner, Nokia will start meeting and exceeding sales targets this year.

well in the last several decades? well in what matter? clearly you don't mean financially. if you do, then have you seen the stocks? nokia lost 30 some odd euros last year alone. as for their cell phones it doesn't matter. look at the profit margins. how much money do you think nokia can make on a phone they sell for 130? not a lot. as far as recovery, how do you think they go about that when they're spending so much R&D making so many phones that are carrier specific. not to mention they only sold 4 million phones when it was during launch time period. the only reason they 'sold out' is because the supply is low. if i offer 1 phone and 3 people want it of course i would have sold out, but that doesn't mean i sold a lot. i read the article where it stated there were more 822 sold then 920 but that's a given. low to mid range beats high end phone sales because they're cheaper. i hope you're right about sale targets but the bb 10 is doing pretty amazing. 1 company bought 1 million that's 25% of lumia 920 sells in less than a quarter. i wouldn't be surprised if blackberry surpasses nokia by a bigger shot then currently.